Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Warriorsaint]

4 hours ago, egg said:

Nicely swerved. I'll answer for you - they'd be worse off financially. I'm quite happy for them all to go, although NI is a different animal with implications galore.

Yes and?

Brexit made the uk worse off financially by about 4% gdp but the  brexiters rationale is sovereignty trumps economics.

Surely all the other nations can make themselves worse off financially if they want to in the cause if self determination and Sovereignty? No?

The brexiters cannot use that argument 

[egg]

27 minutes ago, Warriorsaint said:

Yes and?

Brexit made the uk worse off financially by about 4% gdp but the  brexiters rationale is sovereignty trumps economics.

Surely all the other nations can make themselves worse off financially if they want to in the cause if self determination and Sovereignty? No?

The brexiters cannot use that argument 

You said :

"Very good point! The dissolution if the Uk would lead to a much more democratic representation of the four nations. 
England can be forever a one party state.

Let the other nations be governed by people they vote for" 

I agree with you. Let them go, but I'm confused by the inconsistency of your stance on this and brexit.

We voted brexit and have suffered, and will suffer, financially.

If the other nations get independence, they will suffer financially. 

If I understand you correctly, you say that the uk' s independence from the EU is madness, but that the other home nations independence from the UK wouldn't be madness. 

[Warriorsaint]

1 minute ago, egg said:

You said :

"Very good point! The dissolution if the Uk would lead to a much more democratic representation of the four nations. 
England can be forever a one party state.

Let the other nations be governed by people they vote for" 

I agree with you. Let them go, but I'm confused by the inconsistency of your stance on this and brexit.

We voted brexit and have suffered, and will suffer, financially.

If the other nations get independence, they will suffer financially. 

If I understand you correctly, you say that the uk' s independence from the EU is madness, but that the other home nations independence from the UK wouldn't be madness. 

Yes I can see how this could be viewed.

The EU and the UK are political constructs not nations.

 I believe the EU was good  for the UK but I don’t believe the UK is good for the four nations.

 I don’t believe the UK’s Sovereignty was an issue with the EU but I do believe the other 3 nations are not equal partners in the union.

It is only a view. Many others are equally valid.
 

 

[Tamesaint]

13 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Turning it back on track slightly. It’s a good Job for unionists that Nigel is a believer. It would t take much for the English to vote for independence themselves. The Westminster bubble may want The Sweaties, but up I’m not so sure the ordinary joes are as tolerant of the whining twats . 

Why nobody should post after having too much to drink. 😀

[Warriorsaint]

17 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

Why nobody should post after having too much to drink. 😀

Indeed, The cretins views and those like him/her are what make the breakup inevitable.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZM8aGEKNL/

[badgerx16]

The US has stopped imposing tariffs on EU steel, buit as we are no longer a member, they remain on UK producers.

[Guided Missile]

Quote

Brussels is poised to extend Britain's right to control the €660 trillion (£563 trillion) euro clearing market at the start of next year in a significant post-Brexit boost for the City, the boss of the London Stock Exchange has said. Before the 2016 Brexit referendum, finance chiefs warned that clearing was bound to be lost along with as many as 232,000 jobs in the City. However, a mass exodus of finance jobs out of London has failed to materialise. 

Stick that in yer' pipe and smoke it, Remainers. 

[badgerx16]

Buying time to develope and bed in their replacement systems. See where we are in 5 years.

 

( Maintaining the status quo is not a Brexit benefit ).

Edited 4 November, 2021 by badgerx16

[Fan The Flames]

Whohooo something bad hasn't happened.

[Warriorsaint]

10 hours ago, Guided Missile said:

Stick that in yer' pipe and smoke it, Remainers. 

Even the sniff of a benefit is seen as a major win lol. Maintaining the same as we already had lol.

Hold back the sea said King Canute lol 😂 

[Warriorsaint]

Not long now, bombs in London by next year. Well done brexiters. This all on you.

On 3 March 2021, the Loyalist Communities Council, representing "Loyalist Groupings", namely UVF/UDA/RHC wrote this letter to Boris Johnson which explicitly stated, on behalf of the groupings, "we herewith withdraw support for the Good Friday Agreement"
https://twitter.com/nwl88444048/status/1457646356588285953/photo/1

[badgerx16]

6 minutes ago, Warriorsaint said:

Not long now, bombs in London by next year. Well done brexiters. This all on you.

On 3 March 2021, the Loyalist Communities Council, representing "Loyalist Groupings", namely UVF/UDA/RHC wrote this letter to Boris Johnson which explicitly stated, on behalf of the groupings, "we herewith withdraw support for the Good Friday Agreement"
https://twitter.com/nwl88444048/status/1457646356588285953/photo/1

So, a fringe grouping of drug running, thieving, violent thugs who hide behind a veneer of pseudo-political respectability have said they don't support the GFA. I think a bigger issue is the threat from the major Unionist politicians to shut down the NI Assembly if the cross- border post- Brexit agreement isn't renegotiated.

[Warriorsaint]

14 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

So, a fringe grouping of drug running, thieving, violent thugs who hide behind a veneer of pseudo-political respectability have said they don't support the GFA. I think a bigger issue is the threat from the major Unionist politicians to shut down the NI Assembly if the cross- border post- Brexit agreement isn't renegotiated.

Agree. Its a one way street now though. The flow towards extremism is already set. We tried to warn of this at the time but it was all”project fear”

Timeline is quicker than even I thought. Hope sovrinty is worth the dead.

[Warriorsaint]

https://flip.it/fHuGWU

[Mosin]

1 hour ago, Warriorsaint said:

Agree. Its a one way street now though. The flow towards extremism is already set. We tried to warn of this at the time but it was all”project fear”

Timeline is quicker than even I thought. Hope sovrinty is worth the dead.

I thought the issue is that they want the border to the rest of the UK removed? and to be apart of the UK market not the EU market??? which they are not supposed to want as the EU is the golden land? is that what your saying?

[badgerx16]

13 minutes ago, Mosin said:

I thought the issue is that they want the border to the rest of the UK removed? and to be apart of the UK market not the EU market??? which they are not supposed to want as the EU is the golden land? is that what your saying?

I think the wider issue is that the GFA was drawn up 22 years before Brexit, and nobody thought that the 2 sides would be other than continuing members of the EU. There is nothing in the GFA that actually mentions a border, ( hard or soft ), but many people with a vested interest, be they businesses, politicians, or law enforcement, are of the view that imposing customs or immigration checks between Ulster and Eire would be a retrograde and potentially dangerous step.

[Mosin]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

I think the wider issue is that the GFA was drawn up 22 years before Brexit, and nobody thought that the 2 sides would be other than continuing members of the EU. There is nothing in the GFA that actually mentions a border, ( hard or soft ), but many people with a vested interest, be they businesses, politicians, or law enforcement, are of the view that imposing customs or immigration checks between Ulster and Eire would be a retrograde and potentially dangerous step.

well i guess it does,

It is hereby declared that Northern Ireland in its entirety remains
part of the United Kingdom and shall not cease to be so without the
consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland voting in a poll
held for the purposes of this section in accordance with Schedule 1.


and

It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of
Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish nation.
That is also the entitlement of all persons otherwise qualified in
accordance with law to be citizens of Ireland. Furthermore, the Irish
nation cherishes its special affinity with people of Irish ancestry living
abroad who share its cultural identity and heritage.

so really no border between UK NI and ROI can exist as it goes against the gfa, so a border between UK and ROI cant happen as it removes the rights given to those in NI wrttien in the GF agreement, so the border needs to go between ROI and the EU as Bojo wanted to start with but the EU refused.. so really this is because of the EU playing hard ball against the wishes of the people of ireland.

That right? or wrong?
 

[buctootim]

8 minutes ago, Mosin said:

well i guess it does,

It is hereby declared that Northern Ireland in its entirety remains
part of the United Kingdom and shall not cease to be so without the
consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland voting in a poll
held for the purposes of this section in accordance with Schedule 1.


and

It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of
Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish nation.
That is also the entitlement of all persons otherwise qualified in
accordance with law to be citizens of Ireland. Furthermore, the Irish
nation cherishes its special affinity with people of Irish ancestry living
abroad who share its cultural identity and heritage.

so really no border between UK NI and ROI can exist as it goes against the gfa, so a border between UK and ROI cant happen as it removes the rights given to those in NI wrttien in the GF agreement, so the border needs to go between ROI and the EU as Bojo wanted to start with but the EU refused.. so really this is because of the EU playing hard ball against the wishes of the people of ireland.

That right? or wrong?
 

Wrong. There has never been a border between north and south of Ireland, since long before joining the EU. 

It was the UK which decided NI would remain within the single market and that the rest of the country would come out. The inevitable consequence of that is that you have a border down the Irish sea. A domestic UK government decision. No-one else to blame.   

[badgerx16]

20 minutes ago, Mosin said:

well i guess it does,

It is hereby declared that Northern Ireland in its entirety remains
part of the United Kingdom and shall not cease to be so without the
consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland voting in a poll
held for the purposes of this section in accordance with Schedule 1.


and

It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of
Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish nation.
That is also the entitlement of all persons otherwise qualified in
accordance with law to be citizens of Ireland. Furthermore, the Irish
nation cherishes its special affinity with people of Irish ancestry living
abroad who share its cultural identity and heritage.

so really no border between UK NI and ROI can exist as it goes against the gfa, so a border between UK and ROI cant happen as it removes the rights given to those in NI wrttien in the GF agreement, so the border needs to go between ROI and the EU as Bojo wanted to start with but the EU refused.. so really this is because of the EU playing hard ball against the wishes of the people of ireland.

That right? or wrong?
 

Why should Eire, as a full and active member of the EU, have to put a border between itself and the rest of the bloc because the UK chose to leave ? Why should the 'awkward squad' who left the club get to dictate what the remaining members can and cannot do ?

The insoluble problem is to balance three things;

1) Eire remains a full and active member of the EU and wishes to maintain all the benefits and responsibilities that this entails.

2) NI is part of the UK and therefore not in the EU, and in theory must be treated as any other country outside the bloc.

3) A border between Ulster and Eire is unenforcable without a vastly disproportionate deployment of manpower and resources to police the more than 300 crossing places.

Edited 8 November, 2021 by badgerx16

[buctootim]

9 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

 

 

Edited 8 November, 2021 by buctootim

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, buctootim said:

btw It's the Republic of Ireland. Eire was the colonial name given by Britain because they didnt want to reference Ireland  

Using the 'colonial' name makes it easier for Brexiteers to understand what is being discussed. 😉

[buctootim]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

Using the 'colonial' name makes it easier for Brexiteers to understand what is being discussed. 😉

Ha. I deleted the post as I decided I couldnt be arsed with the debate - but its out there now  

[Fan The Flames]

6 hours ago, buctootim said:

Wrong. There has never been a border between north and south of Ireland, since long before joining the EU. 

It was the UK which decided NI would remain within the single market and that the rest of the country would come out. The inevitable consequence of that is that you have a border down the Irish sea. A domestic UK government decision. No-one else to blame.   

Are you sure, I distinctively remember border checkpoints in the 1980's. It was the GFA and the peace process that got rid of the visible border.

[Warriorsaint]

6 hours ago, Mosin said:

well i guess it does,

It is hereby declared that Northern Ireland in its entirety remains
part of the United Kingdom and shall not cease to be so without the
consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland voting in a poll
held for the purposes of this section in accordance with Schedule 1.


and

It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of
Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish nation.
That is also the entitlement of all persons otherwise qualified in
accordance with law to be citizens of Ireland. Furthermore, the Irish
nation cherishes its special affinity with people of Irish ancestry living
abroad who share its cultural identity and heritage.

so really no border between UK NI and ROI can exist as it goes against the gfa, so a border between UK and ROI cant happen as it removes the rights given to those in NI wrttien in the GF agreement, so the border needs to go between ROI and the EU as Bojo wanted to start with but the EU refused.. so really this is because of the EU playing hard ball against the wishes of the people of ireland.

That right? or wrong?
 

Yes, you believe your fairy stories about Northern Ireland

It is a finely balanced powder keg that the mainlanders will never understand.

we warned about this and the steady slide to violence.

you’ll, of course, be quick to apportion blame to the EU when the bombs start going off again.

There was peace for 25 years. I wonder whats changed.

[Fan The Flames]

6 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Why should Eire, as a full and active member of the EU, have to put a border between itself and the rest of the bloc because the UK chose to leave ? Why should the 'awkward squad' who left the club get to dictate what the remaining members can and cannot do ?

The insoluble problem is to balance three things;

1) Eire remains a full and active member of the EU and wishes to maintain all the benefits and responsibilities that this entails.

2) NI is part of the UK and therefore not in the EU, and in theory must be treated as any other country outside the bloc.

3) A border between Ulster and Eire is unenforcable without a vastly disproportionate deployment of manpower and resources to police the more than 300 crossing places.

 

3) should be - a border between Ireland and Northern Ireland is incompatible with the peace process.

and 2) should add - that a border can not be inserted between two areas of a single sovereign state.

The borders are a massive symbolic issue in NI.

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, Fan The Flames said:

 

3) should be - a border between Ireland and Northern Ireland is incompatible with the peace process.

and 2) should add - that a border can not be inserted between two areas of a single sovereign state.

The borders are a massive symbolic issue in NI.

The fact that the peace process is incompatible with Brexit was pointed out at the time of the referendum, but Brexiteers don't see it as a problem.

 

As for the historical enforcement of the boundary since the establishment of the Irish Free State, there had been customs checks prior to the EU open borders agreement, but other than during WW2 there has never been a requirement to produce a passport to cross between the North and the South.

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

The fact that the peace process is incompatible with Brexit was pointed out at the time of the referendum, but Brexiteers don't see it as a problem.

 

The Irish shouldn’t have a veto on UK policies because of the threat of violence. 

[aintforever]

The Northern Ireland border was always going to be the big issue with Brexit and Bozo has just kicked the can down the road, his initial bullshit, if you remember, was that the problem could easily be solved with technology. Then he bullshitted the EU but signing a protocol he had no intention of implementing, then bullshitted the British public again by saying it was the best deal ever.

The way the Conservatives are going about it is potentially quite dangerous, I guess there can be a fudged deal to be done but the simple fact is there has to be a border somewhere.

[egg]

24 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

The fact that the peace process is incompatible with Brexit was pointed out at the time of the referendum, but Brexiteers don't see it as a problem.

 

As for the historical enforcement of the boundary since the establishment of the Irish Free State, there had been customs checks prior to the EU open borders agreement, but other than during WW2 there has never been a requirement to produce a passport to cross between the North and the South.

It was given very limited focus, and certainly not with any detail. Had the issues that now present themselves were put out there, I think it would have made a significant difference. 

[badgerx16]

5 minutes ago, egg said:

It was given very limited focus, and certainly not with any detail. Had the issues that now present themselves were put out there, I think it would have made a significant difference. 

Just more "Project Fear".

[Tamesaint]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

It was given very limited focus, and certainly not with any detail. Had the issues that now present themselves were put out there, I think it would have made a significant difference. 

If it had been given a higher profile, Boris would have mumbled some bollocks and it would have been dismissed as  "Project Fear".

[egg]

1 minute ago, Tamesaint said:

If it had been given a higher profile, Boris would have mumbled some bollocks and it would have been dismissed as  "Project Fear".

Maybe, but it got so little attention so as to not to be understood as a problem on this scale. 

[Warriorsaint]

32 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The Irish shouldn’t have a veto on UK policies because of the threat of violence. 

Get a job

[CB Fry]

19 minutes ago, egg said:

Maybe, but it got so little attention so as to not to be understood as a problem on this scale. 

There was a high profile day during the referendum campaign when two ex Prime Ministers from opposition parties travelled to Northern Ireland together to explain and publicise the issues and the risks.

Obviously got dismissed as project fear remoaners etc etc etc.

[egg]

Just now, CB Fry said:

There was a high profile day during the referendum campaign when two ex Prime Ministers from opposition parties travelled to Northern Ireland together to explain and publicise the issues and the risks.

Obviously got dismissed as project fear remoaners etc etc etc.

Cheers, got to admit, that passed me by. The whole thing is a bit of a car crash. 

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Cheers, got to admit, that passed me by. The whole thing is a bit of a car crash. 

Your general point is right though. Major and Blair's visit was just one day, it got universally sneered at and no one paid any further attention. It wasn't a topic really in the campaign.

It was really only during the treaty negotiations when Theresa May said "No British Prime Minister would EVER (her emphasis) agree to a border down the Irish Sea" that the topic really came up.

She was wrong, of course, because the very next Prime Minister did precisely that, won an election on it, and it flew through the Commons with Ian Duncan Smith and all the Brexit Spartans waving it through saying it had all been debated, the ERG Star Chamber had read all the detail and how marvellous it all was and what a wondeful job David Frost had done.

Edited 8 November, 2021 by CB Fry

[rallyboy]

With Biden and the US keeping a very close eye on the Good Friday Agreement, the corrupt floppy-combover-haired Eton clown has managed to fuck up Ireland and a US trade deal in one go.

Project Sleazy Clusterfuck is in full swing.

 

[Fan The Flames]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The Irish shouldn’t have a veto on UK policies because of the threat of violence. 

Wow the irony.

[Warriorsaint]

15 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Wow the irony.

Lol, he couldn’t spell it 😂

[buctootim]

17 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

 

 

Edited 9 November, 2021 by buctootim

[Warriorsaint]

Poor old leave voting Cornwall.

https://flip.it/.rYaWh

Edited 10 November, 2021 by Warriorsaint

[whelk]

17 hours ago, Warriorsaint said:

Poor old leave voting Cornwall.

https://flip.it/.rYaWh

Nearly every fucker has moved there so economy must be booming with all those extra cream teas and pasties being bought 

[rallyboy]

While it's brave to vote against having £100m a year in EU funding, have any of those voters considered that their country, their towns, villages and fellow residents might actually be better off WITH the funding?

Do they not need it, do they not care, or are they still joining the dots? 

 

 

 

[badgerx16]

Promising to match the ERDF and other European funding was always going to prove as disingenuous as the £350M p.w. for the NHS. The thing is that once we were out the Government had no incentive to even pretend to keep to their promises of unicorn shit, there is no comeback, we cannot go back in now that people are experiencing the truth of the situation.

[whelk]

Anyone surprised?

 

[badgerx16]

27 minutes ago, whelk said:

Anyone surprised?

 

The first pargraph pf the full article;

"There is a tough strategy involving A16 that could work if executed by the right team. The conditions for it to work do not exist. I do not want this government to trigger Article 16. The PM is incapable of handling it. If he does it’s bound to be a debacle that damages the economy and relations with allies. The best we can reasonably hope for given the state of No10 is to bank the EU’s concessions, muddle through for now, focus on replacing the broken trolley (PM), and return to it when he’s gone. "

 

https://dominiccummings.substack.com/p/risk-aggression-brexit-and-article

Edited 12 November, 2021 by badgerx16

[CB Fry]

The main problem with Cummings is that he is absolutely full of shit. If, as he claims, Boris didn't have aclue then what were his advisors doing about it. Like, his chief advisor.

Edited 12 November, 2021 by CB Fry

[badgerx16]

5 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

The main problem with Cummings is that he is absolutely full of shit. If, as he claims, Boris didn't have aclue then what were his advisors doing about it. Like, his chief advisor.

It is sad when a marriage breaks down with such acrimony.

[whelk]

11 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

The main problem with Cummings is that he is absolutely full of shit. If, as he claims, Boris didn't have aclue then what were his advisors doing about it. Like, his chief advisor.

Ahh don’t spoil the fun

[Guided Missile]

Royal Dutch Shell today has unveiled plans to move its headquarters from the Netherlands to the UK. Shell are following Unilever, whose HQ, for decades  was split between London and Rotterdam are now based in just London.

The Dutch government is 'unpleasantly surprised' by Shell HQ move to Britain 😂

Another Brexit dividend, lads.