Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Warriorsaint]

5 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

In what way is there now a new generation in place? 

As soon as  it affects those who had no choice in the matter. So the generation of 16/17 year olds who couldn’t  vote on it in 2016. Also the generation aged 12 onwards in 2016 I suppose. 
 

Also when the country can see what a mistake was made it had the right to change its mind.

Again democracy is an evolving thing. You don’t have to accept the status quo or even regression indefinitely 

[Super_Uwe]

I have posted on this thread many times that a Norway style relationship will likely be the end game for the whole of the UK (not just the special arrangements in NI for Single Market alignment under the Protocol).

You can't keep defying gravity. At some point the penny has to drop.

[hypochondriac]

35 minutes ago, Warriorsaint said:

As soon as  it affects those who had no choice in the matter. So the generation of 16/17 year olds who couldn’t  vote on it in 2016. Also the generation aged 12 onwards in 2016 I suppose. 
 

Also when the country can see what a mistake was made it had the right to change its mind.

Again democracy is an evolving thing. You don’t have to accept the status quo or even regression indefinitely 

That's clearly absurd. By that logic you'd have daily referenda just to ensure that everyone who turned 18 the day before didn't miss out. Nobody speaks for "the country" and just like 1975, we waited an appropriate amount of time and after the common market had evolved beyond all recognition before putting the question to the country again. Nobody serious is suggesting another referendum now in the same way that nobody serious should have been advocating for one had we voted to remain. 

[Verbal]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

Apologies, sir, if I've misinterpreted what you said but I think you may have conflated "freedom of movement" and "movement"?

My understanding of Brexit (which could be wrong, of course) is that "freedom of movement" was to be replaced with "controlled movement". i.e. movement on a 'supply & demand' basis. 

I accept that the government could be guilty of botching the "controlled movement" concept but could it not be made to work if implemented competently?

Or are you actually saying it's black and white... i.e. You either of have free movement or no movement at all and anything in-between could never be made to work?

Genuine clarification question on my part, not looking for a bun fight about it

 

 

Yep, as you correctly predicted, you misinterpreted.  Freedom of movement within the EU is freedom of labour movement, not of people in general.  Hence, in Belgium, for example, it's incredibly difficult to stay in the country if you're a non-Belgian and your lose your job.  So 'supply and demand' in action under FOM.  There always were controls - and most other EU countries use them.  It's perhaps a tiny example of self-awareness that British politicians knew that their incompetent governance meant that such EU controls could never work successfully in the UK, not least because of the absence of an ID card system - but mostly because, even in good times, the Home Office was 'not fit for purpose' (think what it is now!).

What we have instead is not controlled movement.  There's nothing 'controlled' about it.  The massive labour shortages - not just HGV drivers delivering fuel - mean that economic output is suffering, and the economy is massively under-performing.  This quickly translates into company collapses - even, as we're seeing, companies that are at the sharp end of distribution, where you'd think they'd be minting it. And this in turn translates into faltering growth, which we're already starting to see.

But you knew all that, right?

[buctootim]

Referenda should be for single issue points of principle  - like right to die, abortion time limits, or death penalty not for complex issues. 

 

 

[hypochondriac]

36 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Referenda should be for single issue points of principle  - like right to die, abortion time limits, or death penalty not for complex issues. 

 

 

And that's fine but given that we had already had one for joining, it would be very unfair to simply never allow the public to be asked given how much had changed since we had joined. Let's suppose we had never had a referendum, the clamour would continue to be huge for people to have a say and the issue would not have gone away. 

[trousers]

1 hour ago, Verbal said:

Yep, as you correctly predicted, you misinterpreted.  Freedom of movement within the EU is freedom of labour movement, not of people in general.  Hence, in Belgium, for example, it's incredibly difficult to stay in the country if you're a non-Belgian and your lose your job.  So 'supply and demand' in action under FOM.  There always were controls - and most other EU countries use them.  It's perhaps a tiny example of self-awareness that British politicians knew that their incompetent governance meant that such EU controls could never work successfully in the UK, not least because of the absence of an ID card system - but mostly because, even in good times, the Home Office was 'not fit for purpose' (think what it is now!).

What we have instead is not controlled movement.  There's nothing 'controlled' about it.  The massive labour shortages - not just HGV drivers delivering fuel - mean that economic output is suffering, and the economy is massively under-performing.  This quickly translates into company collapses - even, as we're seeing, companies that are at the sharp end of distribution, where you'd think they'd be minting it. And this in turn translates into faltering growth, which we're already starting to see.

But you knew all that, right?

Not really, but cheers for the clarification 👍

[a1ex2001]

On 26/09/2021 at 09:39, hypochondriac said:

Yes probably true. Also they haven't really had to because there's been a steady supply of cheap labour from the continent. Let's hope that some of this will now happen given the rather pressing need. 

But given that they were in the process of negotiating the hardest brexit they could surely it was obvious that shortages of workers in industries that relied on them would occur?  Maybe this was even pointed out to them repeatedly by the evil ‘project fear’? Yet still they chose to do nothing about it and just sleep walked into an economic nightmare, the government should own it’s mistakes….sadly nobody will hold them to account.

[saint1977]

My view would be Trousers that if Boris wants out of this particular mess, that the government offers 5-10 year visas to build capacity and train the professional/trade/trainer. This of course also relies on big firms like Tesco cutting out all of the big corporate gig economy crap like they’ve done to HGV drivers (including subsidiaries like Bookers) and actually paying proper wages and T&Cs. Shareholders won’t like it but time to edge away from over reliance on share capital. There was an article suggesting that they were offering £5 p/hr incentive more for drivers at Bookers in one London borough but not the one next door where there were similar unfilled vacancies. Tabloid headlines this morning that ‘Boris demand higher pay for truckers’ but it doesn’t work like that. You have to listen to the firms around labour market access and employees/unions about what makes it more attractive. 

Most of the semi skilled people coming over before Brexit were only staying 2-3 years on average, weren’t using the NHS much and investing in getting on the housing ladder at home so that’s worth their while and buys the economy time here to adjust to having the local skills bases that are needed to meet demand. Especially not just HGV drivers and builders and plasterers etc but very much social care with an ageing population.  

The Brexiteers could always say it was a long term project to create more secure better skilled jobs for young UK people in industries where there was already known shortages and demographic risks.

They won’t do it I’m fairly certain as that would be good for the country in the long run for the economy, leavers and remainer kids/grandkids and all governments, especially this lot who have waged a culture war, don’t look past the end of their nose. The current fix will achieve nowt as where’s the incentive when there’s shortages in mainland Europe already? If you want to shift the skills base here, it needs at least a medium term approach. 

Edited 27 September, 2021 by saint1977

[Warriorsaint]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

And that's fine but given that we had already had one for joining, it would be very unfair to simply never allow the public to be asked given how much had changed since we had joined. Let's suppose we had never had a referendum, the clamour would continue to be huge for people to have a say and the issue would not have gone away. 

There was no clamour for a referendum on EU membership . It was a non issue. It was an issue for right wing nutjobs within the Tory party.

But they got their way and we are where we are

[Whitey Grandad]

These medium and long term approaches are all very noble but they don't help us in the short term.

[saint1977]

2 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

These medium and long term approaches are all very noble but they don't help us in the short term.

They do if longer visas and higher pay/equal conditions than they’d get in France or Italy bridges the gap for a few years and buys the UK government time to adapt. It’s better than ‘come here for same/worse until Christmas but only because we are in the shit but we don’t really want you here you foreigner’ which is the messages Schapps and co are sending. 

[revolution saint]

26 minutes ago, Warriorsaint said:

There was no clamour for a referendum on EU membership . It was a non issue. It was an issue for right wing nutjobs within the Tory party.

But they got their way and we are where we are

That's pretty much my take on it as well.  According to Ipsos Mori about one percent of people thought it was the most important issue in December 2015.  Most people really weren't that bothered.  It was weak of Cameron to agree to a referendum just to satisfy his own party but even worse was his incompetence when it came to framing the question - a straight forward YES/NO would always throw up more questions than it answered.  When the Aussies had their referendum in '99 over keeping Mrs Saxe-Coburg-Gothe as their head of state they didn't give the electorate a choice on getting rid of her.  Instead if you wanted to remove her you had to agree to an almost equally undemocratic alternative (parliament appointed president).  Effectively they fucked the republicans and got the result they were looking for.  There were any number of ways Cameron could have achieved a similar result.

It's all academic now but Cameron is going to go down as the biggest fuckwit of a prime minister we've ever had. 

[Warriorsaint]

7 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Cameron is going to go down as the biggest fuckwit of a prime minister we've ever had. 

Ohhhhhh, I don’t know. Johnson has a claim on that crown 🤴 😂 

[revolution saint]

5 minutes ago, Warriorsaint said:

Ohhhhhh, I don’t know. Johnson has a claim on that crown 🤴 😂 

Tough call innit?  Without Cameron there would have been no Brexit and without Brexit Boris wouldn't be prime minister.  Therefore Cameron is the biggest fuckwit for creating the environment for Boris to be where he is.

[whelk]

26 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Tough call innit?  Without Cameron there would have been no Brexit and without Brexit Boris wouldn't be prime minister.  Therefore Cameron is the biggest fuckwit for creating the environment for Boris to be where he is.

The smug twat couldn’t give a flying fuck and more worried his dodgy bank money now. Contemptible how he has fucked us as a country.  6 months more of this shit show run by clowns and I wonder how many Brexit voters will be feeling regret. 

[Warriorsaint]

3 hours ago, whelk said:

I wonder how many Brexit voters will be feeling regret. 

Sorry, the division is such that even though they know they have been conned they will not admit it. They double down and use every excuse under the sun to deny Brexit is a cause of any issues in the uk

[Danbert]

13 hours ago, revolution saint said:

Tough call innit?  Without Cameron there would have been no Brexit and without Brexit Boris wouldn't be prime minister.  Therefore Cameron is the biggest fuckwit for creating the environment for Boris to be where he is.

Honorable mention for Theresa May

[buctootim]

13 hours ago, Warriorsaint said:

Sorry, the division is such that even though they know they have been conned they will not admit it. They double down and use every excuse under the sun to deny Brexit is a cause of any issues in the uk

You see it everyday in the  Exoress comments. It’s the fault of literally everybody else and nothing to do eith brexit. They were foaming at the mouth and repeating as Infinitium ‘we saved you in the war’ because a Dutch trucker union official said he didn’t think Dutch truckers would be interested in short term work in UK and it was a problem we had made . 

 

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, buctootim said:

You see it everyday in the  Exoress comments. It’s the fault of literally everybody else and nothing to do eith brexit. They were foaming at the mouth and repeating as Infinitium ‘we saved you in the war’ because a Dutch trucker union official said he didn’t think Dutch truckers would be interested in short term work in UK and it was a problem we had made . 

 

It’s amazing how these Brexidiots claim it’s nothing to do with Brexit then the next breath they are begging drivers to come back from Europe to sort it out.

They had a Polish driver on the radio yesterday laughing at the government’s visa offer. Basically asked the presenter if they would give up their job at the BBC to come and work in Poland knowing that they would be out of job by Christmas and that their job in Poland involved having to piss in a bottle.

 

[Verbal]

If you're looking for an alternative to fuel (and everything else) chaos in Brexitland, and fancy a detour, a friend tells me that petrol stations are fine and running smoothly in Kabul. 

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, buctootim said:

......repeating as Infinitium ‘we saved you in the war’.....

 

History suggests that the Duke of Wellington could not have fought the Battle of Waterloo without the aid of the Dutch army of the Prince of Orange, and that the Dutch Staadtholder William "saved" the British crown from Catholic usurpation when he became King William III.

[Fan The Flames]

A bloke from the poultry federation, or whatever they are called, said that the shortage of staff has meant that the large UK producers won't be able to fulfill the same amount of orders as they have done in the past. So the supermarkets have had to look to European producers to fill the shelves, who are ramping up production to meet the increase in demand with the workers who were displaced from here by Brexit. At least the foreigners are stealing other peoples jobs now.

[Warriorsaint]

 

Edited 29 September, 2021 by Warriorsaint

[badgerx16]

Gene Editing is not the same as Genetic Manipulation. The latter involves splicing genetic material from 2 differing species together, perhaps a genetic sequence for the production of a specific oil is added to a plant that does not naturally produce that oil. Editing is a technique where a genetic 'weakness' is corrected - for instance to make a plant resistant to drought or higher temperatures. ( Also, remember that spontaneous mutation is quite a normal event in nature ).

Almost all foodstuffs, vegetables, fruit, and meat, come from sources that have been 'genetically modified' by selective breeding and cross-fertilisation. Practically none of our food comes from "pure" natural species - fish is probably the largest foodstuff that is genuinely ''natural'

 

For those of you that think that a post Brexit Britain should look more towards the US, this technique is already approved for some crops in the US and Canada.

Edited 29 September, 2021 by badgerx16

[Picard]

6 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Gene Editing is not the same as Genetic Manipulation. The latter involves splicing genetic material from 2 differing species together, perhaps a genetic sequence for the production of a specific oil is added to a plant that does not naturally produce that oil. Editing is a technique where a genetic 'weakness' is corrected - for instance to make a plant resistant to drought or higher temperatures. ( Also, remember that spontaneous mutation is quite a normal event in nature ).

Almost all foodstuffs, vegetables, fruit, and meat, come from sources that have been 'genetically modified' by selective breeding and cross-fertilisation. Practically none of our food comes from "pure" natural species - fish is probably the largest foodstuff that is genuinely ''natural'

 

For those of you that think that a post Brexit Britain should look more towards the US, this technique is already approved for some crops in the US and Canada.

Why do they do tests and trials in Europe?

[Johnny Bognor]

The thing I don't understand, is that if all the Eastern European lorry drivers have gone home, why does Poland have a shortage of 100,000+ lorry drivers?

They clearly haven't gone to Germany either with their shortage of 60,000+ HGV drivers

[badgerx16]

15 minutes ago, Picard said:

Why do they do tests and trials in Europe?

They do tests and trials in the UK as well, for exactly the same reasons; firstly to verify that the modified crop is viable and consistant in delivering the desired outcome. Secondly to ensure that the modified crop cannot interact and cross fertilise with naturally occurring species. Such trials and tets can take many years.

What the UK Government seems to be doing is loosening the EU constraints, which are the most restrictive of any agricultural regulations in the World.

 

Your point is ....?

[Guided Missile]

9 minutes ago, Johnny Bognor said:

The thing I don't understand, is that if all the Eastern European lorry drivers have gone home, why does Poland have a shortage of 100,000+ lorry drivers?

They clearly haven't gone to Germany either with their shortage of 60,000+ HGV drivers

This whole episode shows how easy it is for the MSM to manipulate the public. Climate change emergency, Trump bad, Brexit bad, Running out of fuel? The British public is too stupid, gullible or more likely, too lazy to study the evidence and rather, rely on a few left wing, liberal journos to provide a headline grabbing summary, before they turn to the entertainment and sports pages.

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, Guided Missile said:

This whole episode shows how easy it is for the MSM to manipulate the public. Climate change emergency, Trump bad, Brexit bad, Running out of fuel? The British public is too stupid, gullible or more likely, too lazy to study the evidence and rather, rely on a few left wing, liberal journos to provide a headline grabbing summary, before they turn to the entertainment and sports pages.

For you to be calling other people stupid and gullible is highly ironic. ( In a non-Morissette way ).

[Guided Missile]

26 minutes ago, Picard said:

Why do they do tests and trials in Europe?

So that they can assess the hazard posed by any new technology and ban it. Happily, we are now free to use risk and benefit assessment to regulate. 

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, Guided Missile said:

So that they can assess the hazard posed by any new technology and ban it. Happily, we are now free to use risk and benefit assessment to regulate. 

Says the peddler in environmental poisons.

[Johnny Bognor]

1 hour ago, Guided Missile said:

This whole episode shows how easy it is for the MSM to manipulate the public. Climate change emergency, Trump bad, Brexit bad, Running out of fuel? The British public is too stupid, gullible or more likely, too lazy to study the evidence and rather, rely on a few left wing, liberal journos to provide a headline grabbing summary, before they turn to the entertainment and sports pages.

But it's all down to Brexit, isn't it?????? I mean, that's what the remainers on here would have you believe...

But according to Transport Insight, a specialist in the area, it has been bubbling for years and is now affecting our European friends, despite all of their lorry drivers going home...

 

Poland: According to Ti estimates, the shortage in Poland in 2020 is around 124,000 drivers. According to IRU, Poland is one of the most heavily impacted European countries and driver shortage in 2020 stands at around 37%.

 

Germany: Between 45,000 and 60,000 truck drivers are ‘missing’ in 2020 in the German market alone, according to the DSLV and BGL, and this number is only increasing. The IRU predicts a gap of 185,000 drivers by 2027 in Germany.

 

France: In 2019 it has been reported by several news outlets that France is experiencing a shortage of approximately 43,000 drivers.

 

Spain: According to Ti estimates, the shortfall of truck drivers in Spain was 15,340 in 2020.

 

Italy: The shortfall in Italy in 2019 was estimated at around 15,000 drivers according to various sources including National newspaper Corriere della Sera. 4 European Driver Shortages

 

Denmark, Norway & Sweden: The Scandinavian countries figures are not as high, but the shortage of drivers has spread across Europe. The shortage figures from 2017 for Sweden, Denmark and Norway are 5,000, 2,500 and 3,000, respectively.

 

Belarus: In 2019, it was estimated that there is a shortage of 4,500 drivers in Belarus.

 

Ukraine: The deficit of drivers in Ukraine in 2019 ranged from 12,000 to 120,000 depending on the region.

 

Ignoring the driver shortages everywhere else, which has nothing to do with Brexit, they go on to say...

 

The driver shortages have been affecting the global road freight market for around 15 years. The issue comes as the pool of truck drivers is contracting but demand for transport is rising. The COVID-19 pandemic has further exacerbated the already alarming issue of driver shortages as new drivers have been unable to train and take their tests and Covid restrictions make the job even less attractive.

 

Even before the pandemic a serious cause for concern in the industry, the lack of drivers in the road transport industry was at an all-time high, with many of its underlying issues being long-term challenges. Factors such as an aging workforce and insufficient numbers of new recruits, due to working conditions and image issues of the profession, have been plaguing the industry for many years.

 

[Johnny Bognor]

In fact the IRU (International Road Transport Union) don't even mention Brexit in their latest statement which highlights a global issue

https://www.iru.org/resources/newsroom/new-iru-survey-shows-driver-shortages-soar-2021

Anyone would think that the UK is the only one suffering. Surely, the remainers would look to their European friends to see how they are getting along before trying to clutch at straws????

[CB Fry]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Bognor said:

But it's all down to Brexit, isn't it?????? I mean, that's what the remainers on here would have you believe.

Except there isn't really anyone saying "it's all down to Brexit".

But there are people, like you, desperate to say its nothing to do with Brexit whatsoever.

There's a difference.

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, Johnny Bognor said:

But it's all down to Brexit, isn't it?????? I mean, that's what the remainers on here would have you believe...

But according to Transport Insight, a specialist in the area, it has been bubbling for years and is now affecting our European friends, despite all of their lorry drivers going home...

 

Poland: According to Ti estimates, the shortage in Poland in 2020 is around 124,000 drivers. According to IRU, Poland is one of the most heavily impacted European countries and driver shortage in 2020 stands at around 37%.

 

Germany: Between 45,000 and 60,000 truck drivers are ‘missing’ in 2020 in the German market alone, according to the DSLV and BGL, and this number is only increasing. The IRU predicts a gap of 185,000 drivers by 2027 in Germany.

 

France: In 2019 it has been reported by several news outlets that France is experiencing a shortage of approximately 43,000 drivers.

 

Spain: According to Ti estimates, the shortfall of truck drivers in Spain was 15,340 in 2020.

 

Italy: The shortfall in Italy in 2019 was estimated at around 15,000 drivers according to various sources including National newspaper Corriere della Sera. 4 European Driver Shortages

 

Denmark, Norway & Sweden: The Scandinavian countries figures are not as high, but the shortage of drivers has spread across Europe. The shortage figures from 2017 for Sweden, Denmark and Norway are 5,000, 2,500 and 3,000, respectively.

 

Belarus: In 2019, it was estimated that there is a shortage of 4,500 drivers in Belarus.

 

Ukraine: The deficit of drivers in Ukraine in 2019 ranged from 12,000 to 120,000 depending on the region.

 

Ignoring the driver shortages everywhere else, which has nothing to do with Brexit, they go on to say...

 

The driver shortages have been affecting the global road freight market for around 15 years. The issue comes as the pool of truck drivers is contracting but demand for transport is rising. The COVID-19 pandemic has further exacerbated the already alarming issue of driver shortages as new drivers have been unable to train and take their tests and Covid restrictions make the job even less attractive.

 

Even before the pandemic a serious cause for concern in the industry, the lack of drivers in the road transport industry was at an all-time high, with many of its underlying issues being long-term challenges. Factors such as an aging workforce and insufficient numbers of new recruits, due to working conditions and image issues of the profession, have been plaguing the industry for many years.

So there is a shortage of drivers all over Europe, but only one country where the forecourts are empty.

[aintforever]

2 hours ago, Johnny Bognor said:

In fact the IRU (International Road Transport Union) don't even mention Brexit in their latest statement which highlights a global issue

https://www.iru.org/resources/newsroom/new-iru-survey-shows-driver-shortages-soar-2021

Anyone would think that the UK is the only one suffering. Surely, the remainers would look to their European friends to see how they are getting along before trying to clutch at straws????

Because approx 20,000 drivers retuning to the EU would obviously not make any difference.

Edited 29 September, 2021 by aintforever

[trousers]

2 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

So there is a shortage of drivers all over Europe, but only one country where the forecourts are empty.

How many other countries had salivating TV reporters camped out at petrol station forecourts to report an impending "fuel crisis" on the back of 0.4% of petrol stations being temporarily closed? 

Edited 29 September, 2021 by trousers

[Whitey Grandad]

23 minutes ago, trousers said:

How many other countries had salivating TV reporters camped out at petrol station forecourts to report an impending "fuel crisis" on the back of 0.4% of petrol stations being temporarily closed? 

It’s more than 0.4% around me. The services on the M27 between J4-J3 had run out today.

[trousers]

8 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

It’s more than 0.4% around me

I was referring to the reported percentage closures at the time the story first broke, not what it is now...

Edited 29 September, 2021 by trousers

[Whitey Grandad]

10 minutes ago, trousers said:

I was referring to the reported percentage closures at the time the story first broke, not what it is now...

The predictions were right, weren’t they? Self-fulfilling prophecies of course.

[whelk]

Uninformed journos not reporting it was the media

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/28/business/brexit-fuel-food-shortages/index.html

[Fan The Flames]

2 hours ago, trousers said:

How many other countries had salivating TV reporters camped out at petrol station forecourts to report an impending "fuel crisis" on the back of 0.4% of petrol stations being temporarily closed? 

Did those other countries have any petrol stations close at all? The panic buying was prompted by real closures in the first place.

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Uninformed journos not reporting it was the media

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/28/business/brexit-fuel-food-shortages/index.html

So Brexit isn't to blame, but the 'hard Brexit' trade deal has severely reduced the UK's options for recovery because we have opted out of all the mutual support mechanisms.

Edited 29 September, 2021 by badgerx16

[Warriorsaint]

5 hours ago, Johnny Bognor said:

In fact the IRU (International Road Transport Union) don't even mention Brexit in their latest statement which highlights a global issue

https://www.iru.org/resources/newsroom/new-iru-survey-shows-driver-shortages-soar-2021

Anyone would think that the UK is the only one suffering. Surely, the remainers would look to their European friends to see how they are getting along before trying to clutch at straws????

Currently in Croatia, no food shortages. No issues on fuel. Anyone would think you would say anything to deny Brexit was a cause for anything.

Btw no fuel shortages in Northern Ireland. Wonder why that may be?

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, Warriorsaint said:

Btw no fuel shortages in Northern Ireland.

But there is a shortage of clowns !

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-58733754

Edited 29 September, 2021 by badgerx16

[trousers]

10 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

Did those other countries have any petrol stations close at all?

I've no idea, hence asking if you knew. 

[trousers]

11 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

The predictions were right, weren’t they? Self-fulfilling prophecies of course.

I think you've successfully answered your own question there!

(I predict I'm going to spend all afternoon on the toilet... now, where did I put that packet of laxatives...)

Edited 30 September, 2021 by trousers

[trousers]

10 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

The panic buying was prompted by real closures in the first place.

Forecourts having temporary fuel hiatuses happens from time to time.  I went to my local garage to fill up about 4 months ago and they had run out of petrol. So I went back home and filled up the next day. It's not the closure that causes panic buying, per se, it's how it's perceived, and how it's reported contributes to the perception.

Are you suggesting the way it was reported didn't contribute to what happened next at all? 

Edited 30 September, 2021 by trousers

[Fan The Flames]

47 minutes ago, trousers said:

Forecourts having temporary fuel hiatuses happens from time to time.  I went to my local garage to fill up about 4 months ago and they had run out of petrol. So I went back home and filled up the next day. It's not the closure that causes panic buying, per se, it's how it's perceived, and how it's reported contributes to the perception.

Are you suggesting the way it was reported didn't contribute to what happened next at all? 

There are two issues here, petrol delivery shortages and panic buying. 

The panic buying was prompted by media reporting and social media and blown up by the Suns headline on Friday. But the reporting didn't just happen out of thin air, a shortage of deliveries has been happening for months, deliveries not turning up and arriving days later, this then got to the point where it was harder to paper of the cracks. The reporting started when two suppliers declared they could not fulfill all their deliveries. 

One then leads to the other.

Edited 30 September, 2021 by Fan The Flames