Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Warriorsaint]

Price of fish about to jump

[spyinthesky]

On 11/09/2021 at 17:12, egg said:

Thank you for the more considered explanation of my thoughts. Whingeing, especially on footy forum to a bunch of strangers, is utterly futile. 

Agree with this.
I voted to Remain and was disappointed when the vote went to Leave.
Irrespective of the personalities involved and the untruths they may have told, we are where we are and we have to get on with it.
To be fair there are so many uncertainties caused by Covid to chuck into the mix, including the increased cost of shipping containers in from Asia, which has little to do with Brexit.
It is currently quite difficult to actually itemise the negative effects on our lives that are Brexit related.
That said I have yet to see one positive effect of Brexit that has impacted positively on my life.

[Warriorsaint]

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRQJToKf/

Direct from the farmers themselves and betrayed Tories.

[Warriorsaint]

2 hours ago, spyinthesky said:

Agree with this.
I voted to Remain and was disappointed when the vote went to Leave.
Irrespective of the personalities involved and the untruths they may have told, we are where we are and we have to get on with it.
To be fair there are so many uncertainties caused by Covid to chuck into the mix, including the increased cost of shipping containers in from Asia, which has little to do with Brexit.
It is currently quite difficult to actually itemise the negative effects on our lives that are Brexit related.
That said I have yet to see one positive effect of Brexit that has impacted positively on my life.

I agree with most of your sentiments but yours seems to be of a reluctant acceptance. 

It will only be when the delayed border checks are implemented that the majority of the public see it impact their daily lives.

I believe there will be a lot more scrutiny on the” oven ready “ deal then. The Tory govt will then blame the eu for being obstructive when it’s the one they negotiated.

We are being treated exactly the way any other 3rd country is being treated, which is what we voted for apparently.

[egg]

5 minutes ago, Warriorsaint said:

I agree with most of your sentiments but yours seems to be of a reluctant acceptance. 

It will only be when the delayed border checks are implemented that the majority of the public see it impact their daily lives.

I believe there will be a lot more scrutiny on the” oven ready “ deal then. The Tory govt will then blame the eu for being obstructive when it’s the one they negotiated.

We are being treated exactly the way any other 3rd country is being treated, which is what we voted for apparently.

And what would that achieve? We'll still be where we are. Brexit will still be shit.

A post mortem doesn't resurrect a corpse. 

[buctootim]

11 minutes ago, egg said:

And what would that achieve? We'll still be where we are. Brexit will still be shit.

A post mortem doesn't resurrect a corpse. 

Surely what it achieves is obvious?  You can’t trust the liars who lied to you and who you elected into government  

Edited 15 September, 2021 by buctootim

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Surely what it achieves is obvious?  You can’t trust the liars who lied to you and who you elected into government  

The same argument that can be applied to every Government the UK elects, and probably to every" democratic" Government around the World.

[buctootim]

9 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

The same argument that can be applied to every Government the UK elects, and probably to every" democratic" Government around the World.

Exactly. So you do what egg wants and bar any mention of it or discussion?

[egg]

14 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Surely what it achieves is obvious?  You can’t trust the liars who lied to you and who you elected into government  

You mean you haven't worked out already that we can't

It won't change what's done. It won't improve brexit. 

It won't achieve any tangible benefit. None. 

 

[buctootim]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

You mean you haven't worked out already that we can't

It won't change what's done. It won't improve brexit. 

It won't achieve any tangible benefit. None. 

 

Of course it will. If people vote accordingly you end up with a government , whether Tory or otherwise who put in place pragmatic arrangements with the EU and quite possibly join efta .This governments credibility is shot on all kinds of fronts.

Edited 15 September, 2021 by buctootim

[egg]

1 minute ago, buctootim said:

Exactly. So you do what egg wants and bar any mention of it or discussion?

I'm not saying "bar any mention if it". I'm saying that whingeing achieves nothing of benefit, ditto rummaging through the ashes. 

As for discussion, in reality there has been none, just lots of "it's shit, I told you it would be". That also achieves fuck all. 

It's happened. It's shit. Stop whingeing and get on with it. 

[buctootim]

2 minutes ago, buctootim said:

 

 

Edited 15 September, 2021 by buctootim
Duplicate

[egg]

1 minute ago, buctootim said:

Of course it will. If people vote accordingly you end up with a government , whether Tory or otherwise who put in place pragmatic arrangements with the EU and quite possibly join efta 

Let's see what teh manifestos are first. What you want, ain't what's on the agenda. 

[Plastic]

I miss petrol. My petrol station used to sell petrol, but now they don’t have any, so I bought a sandwich instead. On the bright side, once we all revert to the horse and cart, we should smash our emissions targets 👍 

[Lighthouse]

1 minute ago, Plastic said:

My petrol station used to sell petrol, but now they don’t have any, so I bought a sandwich instead

Let’s be honest, the petrol probably tastes better.

[aintforever]

31 minutes ago, egg said:

I'm not saying "bar any mention if it". I'm saying that whingeing achieves nothing of benefit, ditto rummaging through the ashes. 

As for discussion, in reality there has been none, just lots of "it's shit, I told you it would be". That also achieves fuck all. 

It's happened. It's shit. Stop whingeing and get on with it. 

To be fair, writing anything on a football message board achieves fuck all.

[Warriorsaint]

11 hours ago, egg said:

Let's see what teh manifestos are first. What you want, ain't what's on the agenda. 

Are you serious? They aren’t worth shit. Johnson has already broken the triple lock and broken his manifesto promise on tax rises. He is the biggest liar we have ever elected.

[egg]

1 hour ago, Warriorsaint said:

Are you serious? They aren’t worth shit. Johnson has already broken the triple lock and broken his manifesto promise on tax rises. He is the biggest liar we have ever elected.

Buctootim seems to think that whingeing will lead to a possible chance of some wider future integration with the EU. You just seem to like whingeing. 

Buctootim seems convinced that his whingeing will lead to something to vote on come election time. I've merely said that there needs to be a manifesto before there's something to vote on. 

What do you hope to achieve by your perpetual whingeing about how shit brexit is and/or a post mortem of the whole process? 

[Plastic]

23 minutes ago, egg said:

What do you hope to achieve by your perpetual whingeing about how shit brexit is and/or a post mortem of the whole process? 

Schadenfreude or masochism, depending on the context.

[Warriorsaint]

45 minutes ago, egg said:

What do you hope to achieve by your perpetual whingeing about how shit brexit is and/or a post mortem of the whole process?

Maybe the delivery is wanting. I am merely illuminating the mess of Brexit. The media is not doing this.

 I think that if enough Brexiters eyes are opened to the disaster and admit to it then there might be a way forward.

Just because my delivery doesn’t fit with your sensibilities doesn’t mean it wont chine with another.

However, I will accept it my be a hammer to crack a walnut.

 I still don’t see any counter from Brexiters though.

[egg]

Just now, Warriorsaint said:

 I think that if enough Brexiters eyes are opened to the disaster and admit to it then there might be a way forward.

 

How might that work? 

[Warriorsaint]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

How might that work? 

I think when scales fall from the eyes and people can say they were duped there may be an agreement that a new narrative is needed. 
Rather than accepting that this is it we can work towards a newer more collaborative union with Europe rather than this harsh hard Brexit that we have.

We need Brexiters to compromise on their ideology in that its just not practical in an interdependent world and that we should be rethinking intergration into the single market.

[Fan The Flames]

2 minutes ago, Warriorsaint said:

I think when scales fall from the eyes and people can say they were duped there may be an agreement that a new narrative is needed. 
Rather than accepting that this is it we can work towards a newer more collaborative union with Europe rather than this harsh hard Brexit that we have.

We need Brexiters to compromise on their ideology in that its just not practical in an interdependent world and that we should be rethinking intergration into the single market.

Changing the narrative is the start. Keep going you are doing a great job.

[egg]

4 minutes ago, Warriorsaint said:

I think when scales fall from the eyes and people can say they were duped there may be an agreement that a new narrative is needed. 
Rather than accepting that this is it we can work towards a newer more collaborative union with Europe rather than this harsh hard Brexit that we have.

We need Brexiters to compromise on their ideology in that its just not practical in an interdependent world and that we should be rethinking intergration into the single market.

Why must brexiters compromise on anything? Brexit has happened. Surely its remainers who need to accept, shit or otherwise, that brexit has happened and live in the reality? 

[Warriorsaint]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Why must brexiters compromise on anything? Brexit has happened. Surely its remainers who need to accept, shit or otherwise, that brexit has happened and live in the reality? 

Because the status quo isn’t working.

 I don’t understand your reasoning. If we accept everything that is shit nothing changes.

Thats not how the world works. If you don’t  agree with something you don’t have to accept it. Being quiet about this is not acceptable if you disagree.

Should Scottish nationalists be quiet about independence because the union happened?

[egg]

8 minutes ago, Warriorsaint said:

Because the status quo isn’t working.

 I don’t understand your reasoning. If we accept everything that is shit nothing changes.

Thats not how the world works. If you don’t  agree with something you don’t have to accept it. Being quiet about this is not acceptable if you disagree.

Should Scottish nationalists be quiet about independence because the union happened?

You're deluded if you think that there's any possibility of any imminent change in our relationship with the EU after the events of teh last few years. It ain't happening.

Wanting change, and expecting it, is not "how the world works".

The Scottish debate is irrelevant. This is Brexit and the "discussion" with you on my part has ended as I now understand your position. it's unrealistic, but I understand it.

[badgerx16]

5 minutes ago, Warriorsaint said:

 

Should Scottish nationalists be quiet about independence because the union happened?

They should remember that the Scottish royal family took over the English throne when James succeeded Elisabeth.

[Warriorsaint]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Wanting change, and expecting it, is not "how the world works".

Im far from expecting it but will campaign for it.

 I have also accepted it, its democracy and that’s how it works.

 I will not stop illuminating it’s detriments let people think its good for the country. In my opinion its not. When you accept something you believe is wrong for the country is the moment you’ve  lost the love for that country and you don’t care what happens to it and the people in it.

That way lies tyranny and acceptance of any old shit and lies you are told by politicians.

 I am happy we disagree because, again, thats what democracy is. 
I may use cynicism and fight fire with fire but it is only my way. On forums it doesn’t really matter and no one should really get wound up. It really just passes the time, no?

[Fan The Flames]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

You're deluded if you think that there's any possibility of any imminent change in our relationship with the EU after the events of teh last few years. It ain't happening.

Well it's actually happening now as reported this week, the surface rhetoric is the same, but behind the scenes the beurocrats on both sides are bending, fudging and loosely interpreting in order to make things work. This will slowly erode the ideologs positions and be something to build on.

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, Warriorsaint said:

I think when scales fall from the eyes and people can say they were duped there may be an agreement that a new narrative is needed. 
Rather than accepting that this is it we can work towards a newer more collaborative union with Europe rather than this harsh hard Brexit that we have.

We need Brexiters to compromise on their ideology in that its just not practical in an interdependent world and that we should be rethinking intergration into the single market.

Just to recap, Brexiters won the vote to leave the EU.  The UK has left the UK and for some reason you think it is Brexiters that need to compromise on their ideology because 'you' don't like how it has turned out.

Not sure you truly understand what 'compromise' means!

[Mosin]

3 hours ago, Warriorsaint said:

Im far from expecting it but will campaign for it.

 I have also accepted it, its democracy and that’s how it works.

 I will not stop illuminating it’s detriments let people think its good for the country. In my opinion its not. When you accept something you believe is wrong for the country is the moment you’ve  lost the love for that country and you don’t care what happens to it and the people in it.

That way lies tyranny and acceptance of any old shit and lies you are told by politicians.

 I am happy we disagree because, again, thats what democracy is. 
I may use cynicism and fight fire with fire but it is only my way. On forums it doesn’t really matter and no one should really get wound up. It really just passes the time, no?

How do you know what is best for the UK? And what part are you talking about? The south? Central? East? west? North? What class? Rich, Upper? Middle? Lower? The Youth? You tell me how me how me, my wife and kids would be better off being back in the EU? And why we are currently worst off being out?. 

I would like to know

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Just to recap, Brexiters won the vote to leave the EU.  The UK has left the UK and for some reason you think it is Brexiters that need to compromise on their ideology because 'you' don't like how it has turned out.

Not sure you truly understand what 'compromise' means!

I'm not sure you truly understand what compromise means. This is how it works, there is a vast difference between the types of brexit from hard to soft. The ideologs want the hard on brexit, whereas there will others who want a softer brexit. Given that no voted for a type of brexit, it can't be assumed what type the public actually want.

Therefore acompromise would be a softer brexit, the brexit nutters get brexit, the anti foreigners get to keep foreigners out, people get a black passport and a crown on their pint glass and the nation gets to keep some of it's European freedoms and we all live happily ever after.

 

[Weston Super Saint]

3 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

I'm not sure you truly understand what compromise means. This is how it works, there is a vast difference between the types of brexit from hard to soft. The ideologs want the hard on brexit, whereas there will others who want a softer brexit. Given that no voted for a type of brexit, it can't be assumed what type the public actually want.

Therefore acompromise would be a softer brexit, the brexit nutters get brexit, the anti foreigners get to keep foreigners out, people get a black passport and a crown on their pint glass and the nation gets to keep some of it's European freedoms and we all live happily ever after.

 

I'm not sure you've grasped that Brexit has happened.

It's done and dusted. There is no hard or soft to argue about. We are where we are...

[Warriorsaint]

3 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

I'm not sure you truly understand what compromise means. This is how it works, there is a vast difference between the types of brexit from hard to soft. The ideologs want the hard on brexit, whereas there will others who want a softer brexit. Given that no voted for a type of brexit, it can't be assumed what type the public actually want.

Therefore acompromise would be a softer brexit, the brexit nutters get brexit, the anti foreigners get to keep foreigners out, people get a black passport and a crown on their pint glass and the nation gets to keep some of it's European freedoms and we all live happily ever after.

 

👏

[Warriorsaint]

4 hours ago, Mosin said:

How do you know what is best for the UK? And what part are you talking about? The south? Central? East? west? North? What class? Rich, Upper? Middle? Lower? The Youth? You tell me how me how me, my wife and kids would be better off being back in the EU? And why we are currently worst off being out?. 

I would like to know

Are you kidding? Tariff free trade, free movement, no roaming charges, Erasmus, no pet passports, EU money to regional projects, block buying power, just in time supply chains, etc, etc,etc. 

Now you tell me how the country, not you, is better off out of the EU?

Edited 16 September, 2021 by Warriorsaint

[aintforever]

47 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I'm not sure you've grasped that Brexit has happened.

It's done and dusted. There is no hard or soft to argue about. We are where we are...

We are where we are but we can still change it if it’s shit. It doesn’t matter which way anyone voted, we are all losers if the county is worse off.

It’s still to early too know the full effects but so far it’s looking like it’s turning out pretty much how I thought it would, a lot of time, effort and money spent just to make our lives a little bit shitter.

Edited 16 September, 2021 by aintforever

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

I'm not sure you truly understand what compromise means. This is how it works, there is a vast difference between the types of brexit from hard to soft. The ideologs want the hard on brexit, whereas there will others who want a softer brexit. Given that no voted for a type of brexit, it can't be assumed what type the public actually want.

Therefore acompromise would be a softer brexit, the brexit nutters get brexit, the anti foreigners get to keep foreigners out, people get a black passport and a crown on their pint glass and the nation gets to keep some of it's European freedoms and we all live happily ever after.

 

Im not sure you truly understand how democracy works. 

There was a compromise, Mays turd. The Remain nutters rejected it, they rejected everything apart from fucking staying in. So the Government had  to  go to the country on a “get Brexit done” ticket. They won a landslide, and Brexit got done.

Your side didn’t want a compromise anymore than my side, if they did they’d have voted for Mays turd. Unfortunately, your side were a bunch of fuckwits that ensured a “hard” Brexit. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

Given that no voted for a type of brexit, it can't be assumed what type the public actually want.

 

 

The people’s representatives  decided what type we had. 

[egg]

57 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I'm not sure you've grasped that Brexit has happened.

It's done and dusted. There is no hard or soft to argue about. We are where we are...

Exactly. The discussion about what should have happened is futile. It's like these people still think we're negotiating the terms of our departure deal. It's done. Shit or otherwise, it's what it is. 

[egg]

13 minutes ago, aintforever said:

We are where we are but we can still change it if it’s shit. It doesn’t matter which way anyone voted, we are all losers if the county is worse off.

It’s still to early too know the full effects but so far it’s looking like it’s turning out pretty much how I thought it would, a lot of time, effort and money spent just to make our lives a little bit shitter.

Here's the thing, we can't just change it. It's not our decision. The EU members have to want us. It's not like phoning up and rejoining the gym on some kind of off peak hours type deal. Regardless, rejoining ain't brexit is it. 

[CB Fry]

16 minutes ago, egg said:

It's like these people still think we're negotiating the terms of our departure deal

Well, we are. 

[egg]

10 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Well, we are. 

That's not strictly true. We have our deal, warts and all. Sure, there'll be nips, tucks, concessions, turning of blind eyes etc, but not the significant renegotiation that was being suggested.

[CB Fry]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

That's not strictly true. We have our deal, warts and all. Sure, there'll be nips, tucks, concessions, turning of blind eyes etc, but not the significant renegotiation that was being suggested.

The changes the UK are asking for on the Irish protocol are fundamental and go all the way back to Theresa May's original strategy,  Boris/Davis resignation and the oven ready deal he ultimately signed as Prime Minister. It's the unsolvable issue we are still trying to wriggle out of.

It's not a nip or a tuck. 

Plus we are still extending grace periods and kicking cans down the road.

Still, its all over, it's finished and done.

[Fan The Flames]

9 minutes ago, egg said:

That's not strictly true. We have our deal, warts and all. Sure, there'll be nips, tucks, concessions, turning of blind eyes etc, but not the significant renegotiation that was being suggested.

Yes there's a deal for now. That doesn't mean that's it forever, things will change. The deal is a treaty and treaties will always be renegotiated.

People aren't talking about what should have happened anymore but about what could happen in the future. 

[Fan The Flames]

52 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The people’s representatives  decided what type we had. 

And the people's representatives will change.

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I'm not sure you've grasped that Brexit has happened.

It's done and dusted. There is no hard or soft to argue about. We are where we are...

You're kidding right.

[Lord Duckhunter]

9 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

And the people's representatives will change.

Now you’re getting the hang of this democracy stuff. Local people vote for a representative to represent them. If enough constituencies want to elect a re joiner, then provided the EU agree, we’ll re join. I wouldn’t hold my breath if I was you, you could be in for a long wait. 

[Fan The Flames]

8 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Now you’re getting the hang of this democracy stuff. Local people vote for a representative to represent them. If enough constituencies want to elect a re joiner, then provided the EU agree, we’ll re join. I wouldn’t hold my breath if I was you, you could be in for a long wait. 

We could fully rejoin, I doubt that will happen anytime soon. But that's not the only game in play, there's a whole load of positions between where we are now and fully rejoining. So the Brexit we have can change. I'm glad you finally agree things aren't static. Maybe the other 'its over' and 'it's futile' guys will get it too.

[Warriorsaint]

1 hour ago, Fan The Flames said:

We could fully rejoin, I doubt that will happen anytime soon. But that's not the only game in play, there's a whole load of positions between where we are now and fully rejoining. So the Brexit we have can change. I'm glad you finally agree things aren't static. Maybe the other 'its over' and 'it's futile' guys will get it too.

Completely agree, it will be a slow process but the country will eventually wake up to the complete fuckup Brexit is. The EU will be quite happy to play the waiting game. All the cards are in their hands.

The NI protocol will sink the current agreement as the only way it’s solved is the single market. That’s the compromise. The ERG nutters get to keep the immigrants out and keep their blue passports but trade will be tariff free again.

The “we are where we are brigade” are correct but it doesn’t mean things won’t evolve. They will have to because what we have now isn’t working. M and S closing in France is the latest blow to British business. It will carry on and on costing businesses and people’s livelihoods until we rejoin the single market.

[Mosin]

8 hours ago, Warriorsaint said:

Are you kidding? Tariff free trade, free movement, no roaming charges, Erasmus, no pet passports, EU money to regional projects, block buying power, just in time supply chains, etc, etc,etc. 

Now you tell me how the country, not you, is better off out of the EU?

Freedom of movemonet ( if you remeber the democratic country you live in voted to stop this as it is not best for the country, just low wages which helps the small 3% of the rich ) , dont bother me or care dont go on holiday to europe, and it hampers me by drivng down my wages and the rest of the UK labor force, the people who get food on your table the ones forgotten about during the pandemic.... Tarif free trade? Its not tarif free as we have to pay into the eu kitty and accept eu rules and regulations and abide by eu courts, stop telling lies. No roaming charges, i dont pay any as i dont go nor does my provider charge me (atm) and when it does if i want it i can just pay 2 pound for an add on, its not so expensive that i cant pay for it out of my 40k pay rise a year. 

Whats the point in training kids and giving them a great education if jobs are reserved for exp'ed ppl and cheaper work force from europe? Dont know if you noticed, but youth unemployment is down since we left the Eu while it continues to climb all over the eu. My pet dont need a passport for the eu, i dont go or ever have intentions of going and you still need one to go to every other country not in the eu so your point is mute, again i asked how it will affect me and so far your failing and how it will make the country better, you have not shown me yet, just sprouting nonesense of so called perks i have never enjoyed nor will the population who also didnt go, prbs because low wages means they cant afford to save for one.... 

You mean taking 6 month longer than the rest of the world to buy life saving vaccines for its population....  Yep clearly much better block buying power full of red tape and delays and waiting for meetings always months down the line, then they buy them and tell its own population not to take them for political point scoring over the UK... cant even read and discuse contracts with vaccine producers correctly. Just in time deliverys... That that dont help the country, just poor managers who cant order the correct stock, which means a potential customer lose, no lose for the UK though as surely if one store has no tomatoes you would go to a different store... Cant picture people getting a taxi to eu for tomatoes cause just in time deliverys stopped hahaha. 

None of the rubbish you have said makes the UK better. 

Since brexit, wages have gone up, youth unemployment down.. More housing... More jobs.... Less unemployed.... Free to make trade deals with the rest of the world who are growing at a far faster pace than the eu. And its only been 9 months. 

If you think the EU is so great, move to it..