Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Wes Tender]

Its not just petrol tough is it, as is so often to pointed out we import more than we export, your Tory government has been in austerity mode for 7 years, wages have been suppressed, services cut, and now we have this self inflicted Brexit uncertainty furthe erroding peoples budgets. Leaving the EU may have had some advantages but these have been flushed away by the behaviour of the Government since the vote, their performance has been farcical, no plan, demeaning of a Parliamentary democracy and arrogant in the extreme.

I know you have no concern for the UK citizens living abroad, many of those rely on UK based pensions and their standard of living is dropping like a stone, they are facing uncertainty on future health care, and yet all we get from the arrogant Brexit leaders is that we have a strong hand to play, yet another falsehood amongst the many.

 

Nick mentioned only petrol and prices. I have debunked the petrol side of his argument. As for prices in the shops, that is too complex an issue, full of variations, but there is some scope for people to buy home grown produce or to forego buying imported products which become less affordable. Some grocery prices will decrease because they are are forced up by the CAP, or because there are seasonal gluts.

 

As for the rest of your argument, it is mostly pie in the sky, scatter-gun stuff. How have any of the advantages of Brexit been flushed away by the behaviour of the Government since the vote, when we haven't even triggered Article 50 yet, have not entered into any negotiations with the EU yet?

 

When you talk about arrogance, you don't recognise the irony of the Remainians like you arrogantly not accepting the will of the electorate expressed in the referendum. You cannot apprehend that when you speak of democracy, that the referendum is itself a purely democratic device, which you choose to ignore. You don't accept that concern for UK citizens abroad can be matched by concerns for people in this country who can't get their children into their local schools, can't readily find accommodation to rent or buy, can't readily access the NHS, all because of the level of uncontrolled immigration from the EU?

[John B]

Nick mentioned only petrol and prices. I have debunked the petrol side of his argument. As for prices in the shops, that is too complex an issue, full of variations, but there is some scope for people to buy home grown produce or to forego buying imported products which become less affordable. Some grocery prices will decrease because they are are forced up by the CAP, or because there are seasonal gluts.

 

As for the rest of your argument, it is mostly pie in the sky, scatter-gun stuff. How have any of the advantages of Brexit been flushed away by the behaviour of the Government since the vote, when we haven't even triggered Article 50 yet, have not entered into any negotiations with the EU yet?

 

When you talk about arrogance, you don't recognise the irony of the Remainians like you arrogantly not accepting the will of the electorate expressed in the referendum. You cannot apprehend that when you speak of democracy, that the referendum is itself a purely democratic device, which you choose to ignore. You don't accept that concern for UK citizens abroad can be matched by concerns for people in this country who can't get their children into their local schools, can't readily find accommodation to rent or buy, can't readily access the NHS, all because of the level of uncontrolled immigration from the EU?

 

The Government is causing the £ to fall because of its rhetoric on Brexit which is going to lead to inflation and higher prices pretty simple really

[ericb]

The Government is causing the £ to fall because of its rhetoric on Brexit which is going to lead to inflation and higher prices pretty simple really

 

I know someone that works in head office for one of the major supermarkets, their current pricing is being reassessed as a result of Brexit and the minimum viable price rise to manage the damage in trading conditions they are planning for is a 15% increase across all goods.

[buctootim]

Where did I say that we could expect the sort of growth rates that poorer countries like Vietnam or Bangladesh achieve? Where did I say that poorer countries don't grow faster than rich countries? That's right, I didn't.

 

Wind in your neck.

 

This is just typical of your straw man arguments. Typical in fact of the Remainian tactics too, whereby anybody's arguments that we might actually prosper trading with the rest of the World as an independent nation, that we ought to regain control of our borders, that we should take back control of our legal system, these are dismissed as being uninformed, ignorant, or xenophobic views.

 

If you read properly the Full Fact article I linked, you would see that they stated "Europe's smaller share of world output is because of economic growth elsewhere."

 

Perhaps you would care to debate the premise that it makes sense to grasp the opportunity that we now have to negotiate bilateral trade deals with the most progressive developing economies of the World as an independent nation, whilst accepting that although the EU is relatively stagnant, nevertheless we will continue most of our trade we already have with them, (although the terms under which we will trade with them in the future are the subject of negotiation).

 

So what are you saying? You bang on relentlessly about how the EU is mired in low growth, how it is sclerotic and how Britain needs to cut free. Who are we going to be like? What levels of growth do you think we're going to achieve?

[OldNick]

As far as I can see is that had we not voted out, the £ would be round about where it was then. The stock market would be 1000 points lower and inflationary pressures low.

As soon as we push the Brexit button, I think the £ will fall another 10%, the stock market will drop 1000 points and inflation will be well on a climb.

At present I believe if you have a lot in the stock market, enjoy, I have sold mine as IMO you will be able buy your shares back and more at a much reduced price. I will need that extra income to cover the large inflationary costs about to hit us in the face.

I truly feel sorry for the generation of under 30 as they are going to face years of hardship and cuts to their living standards.

At present we are in the phoney war where we are living in a world of fantasy where realism has not hit. I dislike the Eurocrats who are unelected but forget not we have the House of Lords that have more power and they also are unelected.

 

I do hope Im wrong in this assessment

Edited 12 October, 2016 by OldNick

[Wes Tender]

So what are you saying? You bang on relentlessly about how the EU is mired in low growth, how it is sclerotic and how Britain needs to cut free. Who are we going to be like? What levels of growth do you think we're going to achieve?

 

Why do you need us to be compared to anybody else? We are going to be like ourselves. Our situation is unique as the only member wishing to leave what has become the EU.

 

Why should I predict what level of growth we might achieve? That would be as futile as the Treasury estimating that UK GDP would be between 5.4 per cent and 9.5 per cent of GDP lower with a central estimate of 7.5 per cent after 15 years if we left the EU with no successor arrangements with them, or no consideration of what bilateral trade agreements we will make with the rest of the World. Their figures were discredited already during Project Fear and yet apparently they are still regurgitating them.

 

It is perfectly reasonable to hold the opinion that we will prosper post Brexit, and there really isn't any concrete evidence that can be produced to prove otherwise, is there?

[ecuk268]

It is perfectly reasonable to hold the opinion that we will prosper post Brexit, and there really isn't any concrete evidence that can be produced to prove otherwise, is there?

 

Indeed, it is perfectly reasonable to hold that view but it's equally reasonable to hold the opposite. There is no concrete evidence to support either side. We won't know until it happens.

 

But if you think that our problems with the NHS, housing and schools will magically disappear when we leave, I think that you may be in for a disappointment. Government policy has a far greater effect on these issues than immigration.

[buctootim]

Why do you need us to be compared to anybody else? We are going to be like ourselves. Our situation is unique as the only member wishing to leave what has become the EU.

 

Why should I predict what level of growth we might achieve? That would be as futile as the Treasury estimating that UK GDP would be between 5.4 per cent and 9.5 per cent of GDP lower with a central estimate of 7.5 per cent after 15 years if we left the EU with no successor arrangements with them, or no consideration of what bilateral trade agreements we will make with the rest of the World. Their figures were discredited already during Project Fear and yet apparently they are still regurgitating them.

 

It is perfectly reasonable to hold the opinion that we will prosper post Brexit, and there really isn't any concrete evidence that can be produced to prove otherwise, is there?

 

So in short, you have no idea. Your denigration of the EU and claims of Britain doing better outside are based on nothing at all, just wishful thinking. Like every other crackpot claim you make.

[Wes Tender]

So in short, you have no idea. Your denigration of the EU and claims of Britain doing better outside are based on nothing at all, just wishful thinking. Like every other crackpot claim you make.

 

Nobody has any concrete idea including you, and you cannot produce any evidence to refute that we will be fine once we have left the EU. So much for your clever-clogs, know it all demeanour, you don't have any more idea than me so by extension, you must be clueless too.

 

You were the one that insisted that we would have to accept a Norway or Switzerland style solution to trade with the EU post Brexit; there would be no alternative, you said. How is that looking now? Highly improbable is how it's looking to me.

[buctootim]

Nobody has any concrete idea including you, and you cannot produce any evidence to refute that we will be fine once we have left the EU. So much for your clever-clogs, know it all demeanour, you don't have any more idea than me so by extension, you must be clueless too.

 

You were the one that insisted that we would have to accept a Norway or Switzerland style solution to trade with the EU post Brexit; there would be no alternative, you said. How is that looking now? Highly improbable is how it's looking to me.

 

You get ever more bizarre. My position is "we've got a nice house, a good job and th kids are happy at school" . Your position has been "we should sell house because its got big cracks in it, leave the job and get a higher paid one and put the kids in a better school without any liberal carp". You dont know what house, what job or what school, but you want to do it anyway. When asked whether you have actually consulted a surveyor about supposed cracks, looked to see what the labour market is like and whether OFSTED ranks any other schools better you throw a paddy and insist I provide proof to you. Bizarre wishful thinking.

[hutch]

I do hope Im wrong in this assessment

You've got nothing to worry about, unless somebody sues you for giving unlicensed financial advice.

[Lord Duckhunter]

What is so laughable is the remoaners predicting economic meltdown for the UK whilst seemingly ignoring the mess in their beloved EU , where countries like Greece , Spain & Italt are perpetually facing meltdown . This thread will be great to look back on in 10 years . Who will have the most growth , the most employment & the better economic outlook . The U.K. Or the EU , I know which my €'s on

[buctootim]

What is so laughable is the remoaners predicting economic meltdown for the UK whilst seemingly ignoring the mess in their beloved EU , where countries like Greece , Spain & Italt are perpetually facing meltdown . This thread will be great to look back on in 10 years . Who will have the most growth , the most employment & the better economic outlook . The U.K. Or the EU , I know which my €'s on

 

Since when have we been like Greece Spain and Italy? Why don't you compare us with Germany and France - industrialised countries of similar size and wealth? Doesn't show the right picture?

[Johnny Bognor]

Since when have we been like Greece Spain and Italy? Why don't you compare us with Germany and France - industrialised countries of similar size and wealth? Doesn't show the right picture?

 

OK, in France youth unemployment is 24% against the UK's 13%. So nearly twice the youth unemployment.

 

So that's the EU ruining the future of youngsters in Greece, Spain, Italy and France... and Croatia, Portugal, Slovakia, Cyprus, Finland, Belgium, Sweden, Ireland, Latvia, Luxembourg, Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Slovenia and Bulgaria.

 

Apart from that, they're doing a great job LOL

[moonraker]

Since when have we been like Greece Spain and Italy? Why don't you compare us with Germany and France - industrialised countries of similar size and wealth? Doesn't show the right picture?

 

Because leavers in reality revel in denigrating the UK purely to justify their backward looking view of the world, and then they have the gall to call it patriotism.

[moonraker]

Nick mentioned only petrol and prices. I have debunked the petrol side of his argument. As for prices in the shops, that is too complex an issue, full of variations, but there is some scope for people to buy home grown produce or to forego buying imported products which become less affordable. Some grocery prices will decrease because they are are forced up by the CAP, or because there are seasonal gluts.

 

As for the rest of your argument, it is mostly pie in the sky, scatter-gun stuff. How have any of the advantages of Brexit been flushed away by the behaviour of the Government since the vote, when we haven't even triggered Article 50 yet, have not entered into any negotiations with the EU yet?

 

When you talk about arrogance, you don't recognise the irony of the Remainians like you arrogantly not accepting the will of the electorate expressed in the referendum. You cannot apprehend that when you speak of democracy, that the referendum is itself a purely democratic device, which you choose to ignore. You don't accept that concern for UK citizens abroad can be matched by concerns for people in this country who can't get their children into their local schools, can't readily find accommodation to rent or buy, can't readily access the NHS, all because of the level of uncontrolled immigration from the EU?

 

My point was not about the EU but about this Tory Governments performance and attitude to the long established British Parliamentary Principle of Sovereignty. Mrs May’s failure to address the genuine and worrying concerns expressed across the political spectrum on her handling of withdrawal for the EU is real arrogance. I cannot help concluding that we continue to suffer, as a nation, because of the internal squabbles and failure of the Tories, and please, please don’t respond if all you can manage is the EU is worse, were supposed to be in control now!!

[Kingsland Codger]

Indeed, it is perfectly reasonable to hold that view but it's equally reasonable to hold the opposite. There is no concrete evidence to support either side. We won't know until it happens.

 

But if you think that our problems with the NHS, housing and schools will magically disappear when we leave, I think that you may be in for a disappointment. Government policy has a far greater effect on these issues than immigration.

 

But the NHS problems will be sorted out by the £350 million a week coming to it that the Brexiteers banged on about in the campaign. Mmmm ... or maybe not?

[Wes Tender]

You get ever more bizarre. My position is "we've got a nice house, a good job and th kids are happy at school" . Your position has been "we should sell house because its got big cracks in it, leave the job and get a higher paid one and put the kids in a better school without any liberal carp". You dont know what house, what job or what school, but you want to do it anyway. When asked whether you have actually consulted a surveyor about supposed cracks, looked to see what the labour market is like and whether OFSTED ranks any other schools better you throw a paddy and insist I provide proof to you. Bizarre wishful thinking.

 

Ah, the master of the crap analogy strikes again! Only you could come up with something as outlandish as that.

 

Like LD, I'm content to wait and see what transpires, confident that in a decade, we will be in a far better position economically outside the EU than we would be if we remained inside it. The majority of the electorate who voted in the referendum believe that too. Now, I realise that you in your arrogance presume to have a clearer and more accurate crystal ball than those who voted to leave, but I assure you that you haven't.

 

You're probably in a bit of a huff because I pointed out that your predictions about us having to go the Norway/Switzerland route will almost certainly be wrong.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Since when have we been like Greece Spain and Italy? Why don't you compare us with Germany and France - industrialised countries of similar size and wealth? Doesn't show the right picture?

 

Let's compare our growth, employment and economy with France in 10 years then .

[shurlock]

OK, in France youth unemployment is 24% against the UK's 13%. So nearly twice the youth unemployment.

 

So that's the EU ruining the future of youngsters in Greece, Spain, Italy and France... and Croatia, Portugal, Slovakia, Cyprus, Finland, Belgium, Sweden, Ireland, Latvia, Luxembourg, Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Slovenia and Bulgaria.

 

Apart from that, they're doing a great job LOL

 

[aintforever]

Indeed, it is perfectly reasonable to hold that view but it's equally reasonable to hold the opposite. There is no concrete evidence to support either side. We won't know until it happens.

 

But if you think that our problems with the NHS, housing and schools will magically disappear when we leave, I think that you may be in for a disappointment. Government policy has a far greater effect on these issues than immigration.

 

You don't think 500,000 extra people every year has a major effect on the housing shortage?

[solentstars]

lets face it brexit is turning in to a massive joke ,the age of stupidy has arrived,be glad when we stop playing stupid games and find someone who puts common sense and our national interest first rather than fantasys of a make believe world which is not based on reality.

[Batman]

lets face it brexit is turning in to a massive joke ,the age of stupidy has arrived,be glad when we stop playing stupid games and find someone who puts common sense and our national interest first rather than fantasys of a make believe world which is not based on reality.

 

nothing has happened lol

the joke is the pure speculation from (mostly) people who can't accept the result

[Window Cleaner]

nothing has happened lol

the joke is the pure speculation from (mostly) people who can't accept the result

 

Well not really. It's pretty obvious, well from afar anyway,that the Brexiters have no idea what they're doing and are groping in the dark for the path forward.

[moonraker]

nothing has happened lol

the joke is the pure speculation from (mostly) people who can't accept the result

As usual a simplistic response, its not about accepting the result, its about wanting competence in delivering Brexit, to date all we have seen and heard from this dysfunctional Government is sound bites, incompetence, u-turns and more untruths. If you put any 2 brexiters in a room they would not be able to agree on how to execute the will of the people. You may have your head in the sand but please don’t make out nothing has happened and everything is OK. If I were a leave voter I would be incensed at the lack of transparency and democratic accountability, how would I know if I am getting the Brexit I voted for? As a UK voter I have every right to ask questions of the Government on their policy for exiting the EU and I expect our elected representatives to scrutinise their policies to ensure the best outcome for the country as a whole.

[Plastic]

This is going well isn't it? Good to see all that foreign muck like petrol and and TV's and bananas going up in price. That'll teach people to buy British.

[ecuk268]

You don't think 500,000 extra people every year has a major effect on the housing shortage?

 

Where do you get 500000 from?

[Wes Tender]

As usual a simplistic response, its not about accepting the result, its about wanting competence in delivering Brexit, to date all we have seen and heard from this dysfunctional Government is sound bites, incompetence, u-turns and more untruths. If you put any 2 brexiters in a room they would not be able to agree on how to execute the will of the people. You may have your head in the sand but please don’t make out nothing has happened and everything is OK. If I were a leave voter I would be incensed at the lack of transparency and democratic accountability, how would I know if I am getting the Brexit I voted for? As a UK voter I have every right to ask questions of the Government on their policy for exiting the EU and I expect our elected representatives to scrutinise their policies to ensure the best outcome for the country as a whole.

 

Sometimes a simplistic response is all that is needed, especially when there is a situation like this that has not even developed yet to the stage whereby plans, intentions and strategies need to be made public.

 

You Remoaners can huff and puff all you like about how just because you have not been given chapter and verse of the Government's intentions as to how they intend to proceed with Brexit, that they must therefore be incompetent, in disarray, lying, etc. Thank God that you lot aren't running the country, as you cannot see that in any negotiations, one doesn't lay out one's plans and intentions before one arrives at the table.

 

You had better get used to it, as that will be how it is until March next year, as they assess the various options, take advice, employ trade negotiation experts and sound out potential future trade partners.

 

I find it amusing that you attempt to place yourself in the shoes of a Brexiteer and to imagine the anger that you would feel at your imagined lack of transparency and democratic accountability. I'm afraid that your thought process doesn't translate very well into putting yourself in a Leave voter's shoes. There are several posters on here that supported us leaving the EU. Don't you think that if they felt as disgruntled as you think they should, that there would have been comments along those lines from them? As far as I can see, we Brexiteers seem remarkably calm about the whole thing.

 

You can't really be taken seriously either by suggesting that if you had voted to leave, you would require a departure from the EU tailored to your own personal preferences. Do you think that the ballot paper should have had multiple choice questions?

 

As you say, as a UK voter, you have every right to ask questions of the Government on their policy for exiting the EU. So go ahead and write to the PM, the Minister for Brexit or your MP. You won't get any answers on here. I assure you that our elected representatives will be attempting to ensure the best outcome for the country as a whole. Did you think that they would deliberately be pursuing the worst possible outcome?

[buctootim]

This is going well isn't it? Good to see all that foreign muck like petrol and and TV's and bananas going up in price. That'll teach people to buy British.

 

I'm replacing my petrol with some locally sawn logs and expensive imported coffee with nettle tea. So far Ive trashed the car and my mouth hurts. #brexitwevegotcontrolbackbutnomoney

[solentstars]

As usual a simplistic response, its not about accepting the result, its about wanting competence in delivering Brexit, to date all we have seen and heard from this dysfunctional Government is sound bites, incompetence, u-turns and more untruths. If you put any 2 brexiters in a room they would not be able to agree on how to execute the will of the people. You may have your head in the sand but please don’t make out nothing has happened and everything is OK. If I were a leave voter I would be incensed at the lack of transparency and democratic accountability, how would I know if I am getting the Brexit I voted for? As a UK voter I have every right to ask questions of the Government on their policy for exiting the EU and I expect our elected representatives to scrutinise their policies to ensure the best outcome for the country as a whole.

Agree became we did not have a plan and still do not have one.we won't get a better deal than the one we got already. Its great that the fantasy world leavers take pride in a weak pound and us being poorer and the country a figure of fun around the world at the moment.still we love deluding ourselves we are a powerhouse . despite the fact the EU holds all the cards in negotiations .lol.

 

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[OldNick]

As usual a simplistic response, its not about accepting the result, its about wanting competence in delivering Brexit, to date all we have seen and heard from this dysfunctional Government is sound bites, incompetence, u-turns and more untruths. If you put any 2 brexiters in a room they would not be able to agree on how to execute the will of the people. You may have your head in the sand but please don’t make out nothing has happened and everything is OK. If I were a leave voter I would be incensed at the lack of transparency and democratic accountability, how would I know if I am getting the Brexit I voted for? As a UK voter I have every right to ask questions of the Government on their policy for exiting the EU and I expect our elected representatives to scrutinise their policies to ensure the best outcome for the country as a whole.

Surely if you are going into negotiations you dont publicise how you are going to do it. Im amazed Teresa May is going to let this be debated as the mandate of the people is to leave. She has to get the best possible deal for us all. Thankk god it is not Corbyn doing it as he rolls up in his linen suit and telling everybody how sorry and ashamed he is of being British.

I voted remain but accept that we are leaving but hope to hell we get a fair deal

[buctootim]

Surely if you are going into negotiations you dont publicise how you are going to do it. Im amazed Teresa May is going to let this be debated as the mandate of the people is to leave. She has to get the best possible deal for us all.

 

There are two conflicting priorities 1. To have a credible poker hand 2. In a democracy to be accountable to Parliament. You cant just present them with a take it or leave deal after two years.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

You get ever more bizarre. My position is "we've got a nice house, a good job and th kids are happy at school" . Your position has been "we should sell house because its got big cracks in it, leave the job and get a higher paid one and put the kids in a better school without any liberal carp". You dont know what house, what job or what school, but you want to do it anyway. When asked whether you have actually consulted a surveyor about supposed cracks, looked to see what the labour market is like and whether OFSTED ranks any other schools better you throw a paddy and insist I provide proof to you. Bizarre wishful thinking.

 

My position would be that if I am having a dinner party in my nice house I will need to know who is coming and how many. How can I cater for them otherwise?

[TwoPints]

So Tesco running out of supplies as Unilever want to increase prices by 10% due to the 17% drop in the value of sterling. Nothing to do with Brexit though, no siree and I see a 3p per litre increase on fuel today too. Also totally unrelated to Brexit though obviously... and we haven't even left yet.

 

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

[Jonnyboy]

I'm replacing my petrol with some locally sawn logs and expensive imported coffee with nettle tea. So far Ive trashed the car and my mouth hurts. #brexitwevegotcontrolbackbutnomoney

 

Nettles? Bloody Romans imported that. Foreign muck.

[CB Fry]

So Tesco running out of supplies as Unilever want to increase prices by 10% due to the 17% drop in the value of sterling. Nothing to do with Brexit though, no siree and I see a 3p per litre increase on fuel today too. Also totally unrelated to Brexit though obviously... and we haven't even left yet.

 

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In fairness it might be not be directly to do with Brexit in itself. It's not common but it's not so rare in the world of FMCG/Grocery negotiations for big branded players to withdraw supply at one of the grocers leading to empty shelves, especially when one is pushing through a price rise or the other is pushing through some change in terms. Occasionally threats are actually actioned.

 

Certainly happened in both of the big old branded businesses I've been at from time to time.

 

This one is interesting because of the sheer size of the range involved but also because Tesco CEO is ex-Unilever.

[TwoPints]

Also... here's a little something I have read this morning:

 

"Lloyds has said it intends to axe a further 3000 jobs on top of its 2014 redundancy plan in light of the EU referendum result".

[Johnny Bognor]

So Tesco running out of supplies as Unilever want to increase prices by 10% due to the 17% drop in the value of sterling. Nothing to do with Brexit though, no siree and I see a 3p per litre increase on fuel today too. Also totally unrelated to Brexit though obviously... and we haven't even left yet.

 

 

OK, let me break this down for you in terms you can understand.

 

Let’s take a jar of marmite (you either love it or hate, much like brexit). The average price of a jar is around £2.50. This is what we pay at the tills. So assuming an average retailers margin is 40%, the actual cost paid by Tesco to Unilever is around £1.50 per jar.

 

Now let’s assume that from this £1.50, unilever make a 5% net profit, which goes back to the Netherlands (presumably to avoid corporation tax). This 7.5p net profit has taken a bit of a hit due to sterling devaluation.

 

OK, so we’re left with £1.40 per jar. 50% of this will be attributable to the UK overhead in running the factory, sales, marketing, admin etc. So we’re looking at a production cost of £0.70 per jar. We don’t know how much labour is involved on the shop floor, so for the sake of argument, say it is 20%. But, as the product is made here, the devaluation is irrelevant in terms of labour anyway.

 

We can safely estimate that the potential exchange rate exposure from raw materials is down to £0.56 per jar. Now after researching, the ingredients are all UK sourced, so there is in fact no / very little exposure to exchange rates in terms of raw materials.

 

So by my calculations, Unilever have taken a 17% hit on the 7.5p net profit, which equates to 1.5p.

 

We know Unilever are taking a hit of 1.5p on a jar of marmite (forgetting that exports of marmite are now 17% cheaper), so here is a question for you. Can you explain how a 10% hike in prices (equivalent to 25p on the retail price) is down to the fall in the pound and/or brexit, when the net effect is 1.5p per jar sold in the UK????

 

Seems like remainers are buying the lies of big business who are seeking to profit from their gullibility.

Edited 13 October, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[buctootim]

OK, let me break this down for you in terms you can understand.

 

Let’s take a jar of marmite (you either love it or hate, much like brexit). The average price of a jar is around £2.50. This is what we pay at the tills. So assuming an average retailers margin is 40%, the actual cost paid by Tesco to Unilever is around £1.50 per jar.

 

Now let’s assume that from this £1.50, unilever make a 5% net profit, which goes back to the Netherlands (presumably to avoid corporation tax). This 7.5p net profit has taken a bit of a hit due to sterling devaluation.

 

OK, so we’re left with £1.40 per jar. 50% of this will be attributable to the UK overhead in running the factory, sales, marketing, admin etc. So we’re looking at a production cost of £0.70 per jar. We don’t know how much labour is involved on the shop floor, so for the sake of argument, say it is 20%. But, as the product is made here, the devaluation is irrelevant in terms of labour anyway.

 

We can safely estimate that the potential exchange rate exposure from raw materials is down to £0.56 per jar. Now after researching, the ingredients are all UK sourced, so there is in fact no / very little exposure to exchange rates in terms of raw materials.

 

So by my calculations, Unilever have taken a 17% hit on the 7.5p net profit, which equates to 1.5p.

 

We know Unilever are taking a hit of 1.5p on a jar of marmite (forgetting that exports of marmite are now 17% cheaper), so here is a question for you. Can you explain how a 10% hike in prices (equivalent to 25p on the retail price) is down to the fall in the pound and/or brexit, when the net effect is 1.5p per jar sold in the UK????

 

Seems like remainers are buying the lies of big business who are seeking to profit from their gullibility.

 

Thats a lot of words to say "I dont know but will make up some figures that fit my opinion".

[Johnny Bognor]

Also... here's a little something I have read this morning:

 

"Lloyds has said it intends to axe a further 3000 jobs on top of its 2014 redundancy plan in light of the EU referendum result".

 

Don't know where you got that from...

António Horta-Osório, Lloyds’s chief executive, said the decision to cut jobs – which will save £400m – had been tough. But he said the use of branches had fallen by 15% year on year, faster than had been the case when he announced a £1bn cost-saving programme of 200 branch closures and 9,000 job cuts in October 2014.

 

This is to do with the changes in the way we do banking.... but hey, blame it on brexit if it makes you feel better

[Johnny Bognor]

Thats a lot of words to say "I dont know but will make up some figures that fit my opinion".

 

Hypothetical, yes. Realistic, yes. The actual average cost of a product in a supermarket is around 30% of the retail price. But as marmite is produced in the UK with UK sourced ingredients, you think a 10% hike is justified and not simple expoitation of a political situation?

 

Tesco are right to tell them to do one

Edited 13 October, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[Plastic]

Seems like remainers are buying the lies of big business who are seeking to profit from their gullibility.

 

I'm inclined to believe that, although your numbers are made up, they may be roughly accurate.

 

But you seem to have missed the fact that there was a catalyst for these price rises, and there is not much that can be done about it.

 

Am I gullible because I now pay 3p a litre more for petrol than last week? Should I protest by not going to work?

[Wes Tender]

Don't know where you got that from...

António Horta-Osório, Lloyds’s chief executive, said the decision to cut jobs – which will save £400m – had been tough. But he said the use of branches had fallen by 15% year on year, faster than had been the case when he announced a £1bn cost-saving programme of 200 branch closures and 9,000 job cuts in October 2014.

 

This is to do with the changes in the way we do banking.... but hey, blame it on brexit if it makes you feel better

 

HSBC closed their Hedge End Branch because of structural damage caused by an attempted robbery. They then decided not to reopen it, so in the rare occasions when my business invoices were settled by cheque, I went to the Bitterne branch as the next nearest. This month, that branch is also closing. What a damned nuisance Brexit is!

 

Most of my banking is via the internet and I suspect yours is too, JB. How about you, Two Pints? Do you often find yourself visiting your local Bank in person, or do you bank online too?

[Johnny Bognor]

I'm inclined to believe that, although your numbers are made up, they may be roughly accurate.

 

But you seem to have missed the fact that there was a catalyst for these price rises, and there is not much that can be done about it.

 

Am I gullible because I now pay 3p a litre more for petrol than last week? Should I protest by not going to work?

 

I used marmite as a worked example. Many of Unilevers products are made in the UK (where the overhead and labour costs are unaffected by exchange rate changes). Some raw materials are imported (such as those based on petroleum like cleaning products), so there is some impact. But at the same time, some of the products manufactured here are exported and are now cheaper in destination countries. Are Unilever proposing to reduce prices in these destination countries in order to maintain margins? Of course they aren't.

 

Yes the impact is real, but it's a lot smaller than Unilever are claiming and does not justify 10% price hikes. It's big business simply profiteering and using brexit as an excuse. Tesco are well within their rights to push back.

 

The cost of oil went up by 700% between 2000 and 2005 and you still went to work. Pump prices hit £1.40 per litre three years ago, so let me go and dig up your post moaning about how you were not going to go to work in protest... LOL

Edited 13 October, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[buctootim]

Hypothetical, yes. Realistic, yes. The actual average cost of a product in a supermarket is around 30% of the retail price. But as marmite is produced in the UK with UK sourced ingredients, you think a 10% hike is justified and not simple expoitation of a political situation?

 

Tesco are right to tell them to do one

 

So you've decided to take one product made in Britain from British ingredients and tried to pretend Unilever spat is all about Marmite when actually its about hundreds of products. Go you. If you were as bright as you think you are you would realise Tesco's are deliberately removing marmite, an iconic British brand, from the shelves in order to con the credulous like you in a PR exercise to repair their tatty brand. "Ooh look nasty Unilever are putting the prices up, but we are batting for you, please shop here not Sainsbury's". Did the fact the other supermarkets havent got into a public spat with a major supplier not give you pause for thought?

 

You have no idea if Unlilever are raising the price of marmite to Tescos or not and if so by how much. Odd that Tescos are still stocking nearly all the other brands eh? Lux, Lynx and Chicken tonight not so newsworthy?

Edited 13 October, 2016 by buctootim

[scotty]

HSBC closed their Hedge End Branch because of structural damage caused by an attempted robbery. They then decided not to reopen it, so in the rare occasions when my business invoices were settled by cheque, I went to the Bitterne branch as the next nearest. This month, that branch is also closing. What a damned nuisance Brexit is!

 

Most of my banking is via the internet and I suspect yours is too, JB. How about you, Two Pints? Do you often find yourself visiting your local Bank in person, or do you bank online too?

 

I hardly go to the bank nowadays unless I need a large wedge of cash. It's easier just to nip into the post office to pay in cheques, I bank with barclays but I think most of the major banks have an arrangement for that, you just need to ask for the printed envelopes. Takes an extra day to process, that's all. And almost everyone pays by bacs online now anyway.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

So you've decided to take one product made in Britain from British ingredients and tried to pretend Unilever spat is all about Marmite when actually its about hundreds of products. Go you. If you were as bright as you think you are you would realise Tesco's are deliberately removing marmite, an iconic British brand, from the shelves in order to con the credulous like you in a PR exercise to repair their tatty brand. "Ooh look nasty Unilever are putting the prices up, but we are batting for you, please shop here not Sainsbury's". Did the fact the other supermarkets havent got into a public spat with a major supplier not give you pause for thought?

 

You have no idea if Unlilever are raising the price of marmite to Tescos or not and if so by how much. Odd that Tescos are still stocking nearly all the other brands eh? Lux, Lynx and Chicken tonight not so newsworthy?

 

I think it is great that all these supermarkets will now be sourcing their products where they can domestically. That is good news for the economy. Countries like Greece and Spain must be a bit miffed they joined the Euro and will be in perpetual poverty for years to come unable to change their exchange rates. Enforced austerity from the EU.

[Johnny Bognor]

So you've decided to take one product made in Britain from British ingredients and tried to pretend Unilever spat is all about Marmite when actually its about hundreds of products. Go you. If you were as bright as you think you are you would realise Tesco's are deliberately removing marmite, an iconic British brand, from the shelves in order to con the credulous like you in a PR exercise to repair their tatty brand. "Ooh look nasty Unilever are putting the prices up, but we are batting for you, please shop here not Sainsbury's". Did the fact the other supermarkets havent got into a public spat with a major supplier not give you pause for thought?

 

You have no idea if Unlilever are raising the price of marmite to Tescos or not and if so by how much. Odd that Tescos are still stocking nearly all the other brands eh? Lux, Lynx and Chicken tonight not so newsworthy?

 

Many of Unilever's products are manufactured in the UK. They are trying to instill a 10% hike, when the actual impact is less. Quite simple really. They are trying it on with Sainsbury's and Co as well.

With the fall in the pound, rises are to be expected, but IMO Unilever are taking the ****, especially when you consider how Unilever didn't lower their prices when the currency went in the opposite direction a few years ago.

 

Anyway marmite was a bad example, as most leftie remainers will be more concerned about the price of balsamic vinegar, avacado and bitter melon (quite apt don't you think?? ;-) )

[buctootim]

I think it is great that all these supermarkets will now be sourcing their products where they can domestically. That is good news for the economy. Countries like Greece and Spain must be a bit miffed they joined the Euro and will be in perpetual poverty for years to come unable to change their exchange rates. Enforced austerity from the EU.

 

Oddly enough it isnt 1950 any more. For many products there is one factory supplying Europe, and possibly globally. I cant see people going back to eating only seasonal fruit and veg either. The 'Buy British' mantra gets less and less relevant every year because there isnt a UK manfucturer.

[solentstars]

Lol

Brexit is going great £350 million a week for NHS,trade deals in a month,no changes in our circumstances from the mouth of the 3 stooges who backtracked big time, and no plan and the likes of Rupert Murdock and his cronies getting wanted they wanted with all the made up propaganda for the gullible.I prefer to believe those driving down the pound big time who have no confidence in our currency at the moment as they can see we don't have a clue of where we are heading and how we are going to pay off our massive debt .

 

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