Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[OldNick]

Export into Europe used to be clear and easy, just pay the quote and go, now increased costs for the haulier re paperwork, 2x agents fees £75 (£150 total ) then add 20% vat to pay into the EU. No wonder our exports are going to drop.

It has cost my small business most of my European sales as the clients will not cough up these charges and so source the goods internally.

We havent yet had many people flying off on holiday, just wait for the extra queues etc and aggro. It is madness and whilst not a fan of the European project the economic sense of leaving is zilch.  

[Tamesaint]

19 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Export into Europe used to be clear and easy, just pay the quote and go, now increased costs for the haulier re paperwork, 2x agents fees £75 (£150 total ) then add 20% vat to pay into the EU. No wonder our exports are going to drop.

It has cost my small business most of my European sales as the clients will not cough up these charges and so source the goods internally.

We havent yet had many people flying off on holiday, just wait for the extra queues etc and aggro. It is madness and whilst not a fan of the European project the economic sense of leaving is zilch.  

True ... but at least your passport is blue and "we have our country back."

[spyinthesky]

9 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Not sure where all the crocodile tears have gone now that the British Steel industry is facing an actual crisis.  Seems no-one really gives a shit unless they can pin the blame on Brexit...

Wes,
Are there people claiming the problem with Liberty Steel is due to Brexit?
I have a good friend who sold a business to Sanjeev Gupta and he told me he was a 'character' (ie a Chancer)
So as a Remainer this is not something that can be laid at Brexit's door.
i do feel a lot of sympathy with the people who's jobs may be affected by the problem though.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Another one obsessed with the colour of passports. Why are Remoaners so obsessed with them? 

Edited 9 March, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[Weston Super Saint]

53 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

Wes,
Are there people claiming the problem with Liberty Steel is due to Brexit?
I have a good friend who sold a business to Sanjeev Gupta and he told me he was a 'character' (ie a Chancer)
So as a Remainer this is not something that can be laid at Brexit's door.
i do feel a lot of sympathy with the people who's jobs may be affected by the problem though.

No.

There was lots of faux anger when Brexit was being blamed a month or so ago (tariiffs).  Nobody seems to care now though, now that Brexit isn't to blame...

[buctootim]

UK exports to European Union drop 40% in January UK exports to European Union drop 40% in January - BBC News

Coincidence probs...

[whelk]

22 minutes ago, buctootim said:

UK exports to European Union drop 40% in January UK exports to European Union drop 40% in January - BBC News

Coincidence probs...

I am looking to take the opportunity of buying a repossession down in Cornwall as heard the crab fisherman have no market now.

 

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, buctootim said:

UK exports to European Union drop 40% in January UK exports to European Union drop 40% in January - BBC News

Coincidence probs...

Yes but exports to non-EU went up by £200m in the same period.

To hundred million quid is a huge number. I'd like that in my bank account that's for sure. 

Can't believe how negative people can be.

Two. Hundred. Million actual pounds.

Well done Liz Truss 👏 👍 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

 

[Super_Uwe]

On 09/03/2021 at 12:40, OldNick said:

Export into Europe used to be clear and easy, just pay the quote and go, now increased costs for the haulier re paperwork, 2x agents fees £75 (£150 total ) then add 20% vat to pay into the EU. No wonder our exports are going to drop.

It has cost my small business most of my European sales as the clients will not cough up these charges and so source the goods internally.

We havent yet had many people flying off on holiday, just wait for the extra queues etc and aggro. It is madness and whilst not a fan of the European project the economic sense of leaving is zilch.  

Sorry to hear that. 

It's difficult to see how this will materially improve, the biggest worry is actually that certain trade between the UK and EU simply won't happen any more as it's too much hassle.

But it won't happen overnight, and it won't be a catastrophic blowout like some of the pre-referendum predictions. Just a slow burner with the UK and EU gradually realigning their business models. Some UK businesses will be able to pivot and capitalise on new domestic and ROW demand, but other UK businesses have specific geographic markets in Europe and they will suffer.

[buctootim]

1 minute ago, Super_Uwe said:

Some UK businesses will be able to pivot and capitalise on new domestic and ROW demand, but other UK businesses have specific geographic markets in Europe and they will suffer.

That's an often heard argument, but it makes no sense to me. The opportunities to export to the rest of the world haven't increased to compensate for reductions in exports to the EU.

[The Cat]

What's happened to Wes? He was all over this thread until a couple of months ago but seems to have disappeared?

[Tamesaint]

34 minutes ago, The Cat said:

What's happened to Wes? He was all over this thread until a couple of months ago but seems to have disappeared?

I was wondering that. He doesn't even post on football matters anymore. 

[Winnersaint]

The Brexit battle was lost – we must accept that and change our way of thinking (msn.com)

A relatively pragmatic view of where we are

[buctootim]

1 hour ago, Winnersaint said:

The Brexit battle was lost – we must accept that and change our way of thinking (msn.com)

A relatively pragmatic view of where we are

Yes Cable usually had a sound view and interesting ideas. Its a pity he didnt get more time in Government.    

[Trader]

The actions of the EU towards the UK in the last couple of months have shown them to all and sundry the bunch of c words I always knew them to be. Making political points whilst putting their people at risk of Covid for instance.

I can’t see us rejoining any time soon - that’s if there’s anything left to rejoin. The cracks are appearing already.

Reminds me of the USSR.

[whelk]

Have to be honest. I was a remainer but EU is really pissing me off over vaccines and have come more round to not being as bothered by Brexit and feel well out of it. 

[Plastic]

3 hours ago, whelk said:

Have to be honest. I was a remainer but EU is really pissing me off over vaccines and have come more round to not being as bothered by Brexit and feel well out of it. 

Its a symptom of the mistrust that now exists between the 2 entities, which was in a large part created by brexit. But yes, I'm starting to feel the same.

Edited 19 March, 2021 by Plastic

[Trader]

4 hours ago, Plastic said:

Its a symptom of the mistrust that now exists between the 2 entities, which was in a large part created by brexit. But yes, I'm starting to feel the same.

Anything and everything blamed on Brexit as usual. Do you really think it would have been any different if we’d still been in the EU?

We’d have been belittled and our opinions mocked and ignored, just as they always were.

And still are being.

[Plastic]

7 minutes ago, Trader said:

Do you really think it would have been any different if we’d still been in the EU?

Yes, we wouldn't be threatening each other with export bans for a start.

[ecuk268]

2 hours ago, Trader said:

Anything and everything blamed on Brexit as usual. Do you really think it would have been any different if we’d still been in the EU?

We’d have been belittled and our opinions mocked and ignored, just as they always were.

And still are being.

Perhaps we should sent a gunboat up the river to sort out Johnny Foreigner.

[Trader]

2 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

Perhaps we should sent a gunboat up the river to sort out Johnny Foreigner.

Thanks for that Paul.

[buctootim]

For all the vaccine tug of war and the relative success Britain has had getting vaccinations done - it doesn't outweigh the huge fuckups in controlling infections. Britain will still end up with more dead per capita than almost every other country.    

[AlexLaw76]

25 minutes ago, buctootim said:

For all the vaccine tug of war and the relative success Britain has had getting vaccinations done - it doesn't outweigh the huge fuckups in controlling infections. Britain will still end up with more dead per capita than almost every other country.    

Do all other countries register COVID deaths the exact same way?

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, buctootim said:

For all the vaccine tug of war and the relative success Britain has had getting vaccinations done - it doesn't outweigh the huge fuckups in controlling infections. Britain will still end up with more dead per capita than almost every other country.    

Wrong as ever.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56456312

Quote

The UK death rate during the second wave of the pandemic was not the worst in Europe - but it remained one of the 10 worst-affected countries.

By the end of June 2020, the UK had the highest excess mortality in Europe, according to figures from the ONS.

But by December it had been overtaken by Poland, Spain, Belgium, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic and Slovenia.

And that's before you start looking at all cause mortality...

[buctootim]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Wrong as ever.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56456312

And that's before you start looking at all cause mortality...

Nope. You simply can't understand basics  - like the difference between total deaths and snapshot death rates at one particular time. Everybody here knows your limitations and persisting with what you think are smart insights just make you look worse.  

 

For total cases UK is fifth worst of 153 countries behind Russia, China, Brazil and US - all with populations 2-20 times greater

For total deaths  UK is fifth worst of 153 countries behind USA, Brazil, Mexico and India - all with populations 2-20 greater

For deaths per capita UK is fourth worst of 153 countries behind Czech Republic, Belgium and Slovenia

 

The UK is unique in appearing in the worst 10 for all categories. 

 https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/  

 

Edited 19 March, 2021 by buctootim

[buctootim]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Do all other countries register COVID deaths the exact same way?

No. Belgium for example is stricter than the UK. If it used the same measure the UK does it would have a lower death total  

[sandwichsaint]

On 17/03/2021 at 14:47, buctootim said:

Yes Cable usually had a sound view and interesting ideas. Its a pity he didnt get more time in Government.    

Here's a thing, on the way to the San Siro we parked at a park-and-pickup for Heathrow. Some vaguely familiar looking bloke 'from the telly' ('I've seen him somewhere haven't I?') got into the people carrier. We got chatting, we were going to the football, he was going to a 'business meeting' in Germany  Still to this day I'm astonished that on arrival at the terminal Vince Cable didn't grab me for a commemorative selfie to mark the occasion. 

[AlexLaw76]

10 hours ago, buctootim said:

No. Belgium for example is stricter than the UK. If it used the same measure the UK does it would have a lower death total  

You are right, other countries do not register COVID deaths the exact same way as the UK.  Belgium may be 'stricter', but others - say in the EU - are not.  

[Weston Super Saint]

12 hours ago, buctootim said:

Nope. You simply can't understand basics  - like the difference between total deaths and snapshot death rates at one particular time. Everybody here knows your limitations and persisting with what you think are smart insights just make you look worse.  

 

For total cases UK is fifth worst of 153 countries behind Russia, China, Brazil and US - all with populations 2-20 times greater

For total deaths  UK is fifth worst of 153 countries behind USA, Brazil, Mexico and India - all with populations 2-20 greater

For deaths per capita UK is fourth worst of 153 countries behind Czech Republic, Belgium and Slovenia

 

The UK is unique in appearing in the worst 10 for all categories. 

 https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/  

 

Lol.  On a Brexit thread, to back up your comment regarding 'vaccine tug of war' and claim that we will have the highest death rate of any country (the implication being of any country in Europe), you provide statistics that are "Based on a comparison of coronavirus deaths in 201 countries relative to their population"

But those same statistics presumably got bored three quarters of the way through and actually only bothered with 153 countries, with 48 seemingly disappeared!

Then, for some bizarre reason you trumpet China as being a 'much better' country than the UK, because presumably you believe they are always open and honest with the figures they provide 

 

Like I said, the true reflection will be a comparison of all cause deaths over time - Professor Witty has been explaining this for the best part of a year now, perhaps you're struggling to keep up?

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/comparisonsofallcausemortalitybetweeneuropeancountriesandregions/2020

Quote

The best way of comparing the mortality impact internationally is by looking at all-cause mortality rates by local area, region and country compared with the five-year average. All-cause mortality avoids the problem of different countries recording COVID-19 deaths in different ways, and also takes into account the indirect impact of the pandemic, such as deaths from other causes that might be related to delayed access to healthcare.

Quote

When looking at 2020, the UK ended the year neither the highest nor lowest in Europe for cumulative excess mortality, but this masks different patterns for the two waves.

One striking statistic form that article though would be :

Quote

The UK had among the highest excess mortality rates for people aged under 65 years; by 18 December it had the second highest cumulative excess mortality rate for this age group, behind Bulgaria. 

However, I would say that statistic is more a reflection of the unhealthy lifestyle and obesity exhibited by large parts of our country, rather than our "huge fuckups in controlling infections".

[buctootim]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Lol.  On a Brexit thread, to back up your comment regarding 'vaccine tug of war' and claim that we will have the highest death rate of any country (the implication being of any country in Europe), you provide statistics that are "Based on a comparison of coronavirus deaths in 201 countries relative to their population"

But those same statistics presumably got bored three quarters of the way through and actually only bothered with 153 countries, with 48 seemingly disappeared!

Then, for some bizarre reason you trumpet China as being a 'much better' country than the UK, because presumably you believe they are always open and honest with the figures they provide 

 

Like I said, the true reflection will be a comparison of all cause deaths over time - Professor Witty has been explaining this for the best part of a year now, perhaps you're struggling to keep up?

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/comparisonsofallcausemortalitybetweeneuropeancountriesandregions/2020

One striking statistic form that article though would be :

However, I would say that statistic is more a reflection of the unhealthy lifestyle and obesity exhibited by large parts of our country, rather than our "huge fuckups in controlling infections".

Final response to you.  Again you confirm your dimness by addressing a different point to the one made  - that the UK Government failed to control infections effectively. You then compound that by not even understanding the stats and reports you have posted. You think the ONS contradict my points, they don't.

Three examples.  

1. The ONS are saying Britain had the second highest excess mortality rate in Europe for under 65s in 2020. That is a narrower stat than mine about cumulative covid deaths for all age groups since the start of the pandemic -  but it is consistent with my point, it doesn't contradict it.    

2. Excess deaths is a figure calculated from the five year rolling average FOR THAT COUNTRY. It has nothing to do with Brits having unhealthy lifestyles or obesity compared to other countries. 

3. Nowhere do I "trumpet China as a 'much better' country than the UK". That is something that didn't happen but you nonetheless think you've seen - which essentially is the nub of your wider issues.   

 

  

Edited 20 March, 2021 by buctootim

[Weston Super Saint]

18 hours ago, buctootim said:

For total cases UK is fifth worst of 153 countries behind Russia, China, Brazil and US - all with populations 2-20 times greater

 

Russia 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56454701

[Weston Super Saint]

5 hours ago, buctootim said:

Final response to you.  Again you confirm your dimness by addressing a different point to the one made  - that the UK Government failed to control infections effectively. You then compound that by not even understanding the stats and reports you have posted. You think the ONS contradict my points, they don't.

Three examples.  

1. The ONS are saying Britain had the second highest excess mortality rate in Europe for under 65s in 2020. That is a narrower stat than mine about cumulative covid deaths for all age groups since the start of the pandemic -  but it is consistent with my point, it doesn't contradict it.    

2. Excess deaths is a figure calculated from the five year rolling average FOR THAT COUNTRY. It has nothing to do with Brits having unhealthy lifestyles or obesity compared to other countries. 

3. Nowhere do I "trumpet China as a 'much better' country than the UK". That is something that didn't happen but you nonetheless think you've seen - which essentially is the nub of your wider issues.   

 

  

1.  I know, I posted the link to the ONS and highlighted the fact, but if it makes you feel like you've got one over on me, fill your boots!

2. I think you've confused yourself again.  I mentioned the unhealthy lifestyle in relation to the number of under 65s that died in 2020 - it may have escaped your notice but the old, fat and unhealthy are the ones dying.  Not sure what your comment about excess deaths is about, the quote I posted earlier said the same thing!

3. Lol.  You posted "For total cases UK is fifth worst of 153 countries behind Russia, China, Brazil and US - all with populations 2-20 times greater".  I think you may be having a breakdown as you can't even remember what you post.  I've taken the liberty of highlighting where you have trumpeted China as being better than the UK.

[Tamesaint]

On 01/01/2019 at 16:08, Weston Super Saint said:

 

Not entirely sure what Brexit has got to do with the strength of the [independent] Zloty against the pound, especially as 'Brexit' hasn't actually happened yet, but feel free to have a look for yourself [pal] : https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/bank-of-england-spot/historical-spot-exchange-rates/gbp/GBP-to-PLN-2007

 

Jan 2005 5.8Zl / £

Jan 2008 4.8Zl / £

Jan 2009 4.3Zl / £

Jan 2011 4.6Zl / £ (4 years before a vote on Brexit was even mentioned!)

Jan 2013 4.9Zl / £

Jan 2016 5.9Zl / £ (1 year after the vote on Brexit with the pound getting stronger against the Zloty!)

Jan 2018 4.7Zl / £ (back to roughly 2008 levels!)

 

I'm sure there's something in there that will make me look stupid though!

 

You still haven't answered my question from a couple of days ago relating to an 'orderly' Brexit and how (in your humble opinion) this is possible....

Just in case anyone has forgotten how dim Weston is. (He had the wrong year for the referendum so his whole post contradicted the point that he was making).  😁

Edited 20 March, 2021 by Tamesaint
Explanation of the dimness

[OldNick]

On 19/03/2021 at 19:36, buctootim said:

No. Belgium for example is stricter than the UK. If it used the same measure the UK does it would have a lower death total  

should it not as its population is far smaller

[Guided Missile]

As the EU shows it's true colours, how about another survey, mods, as follows:

Saints Web Definitely Not Official Third Referendum

• Leave Before - Rejoin Now
• Leave Before - Leave Now
• Leave Before - Not Bothered Now
• Remain Before - Rejoin Now
• Remain Before - Leave Now
• Remain Before - Not Bothered Now
• Not Bothered Before - Leave Now
• Not Bothered Before - Rejoin Now

[Fan The Flames]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/22/data-shows-collapse-of-uk-food-and-drink-exports-post-brexit

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Guided Missile said:

As the EU shows it's true colours, how about another survey, mods, as follows:

Saints Web Definitely Not Official Third Referendum

• Leave Before - Rejoin Now
• Leave Before - Leave Now
• Leave Before - Not Bothered Now
• Remain Before - Rejoin Now
• Remain Before - Leave Now
• Remain Before - Not Bothered Now
• Not Bothered Before - Leave Now
• Not Bothered Before - Rejoin Now

Could we perhaps have this as a poll ;

GM "boring as fuck" - yes or no ?

[Guided Missile]

15 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/22/data-shows-collapse-of-uk-food-and-drink-exports-post-brexit

Mmm...a slice of cheddar, a shot of whiskey,  or a shot of vaccine?  

[Tamesaint]

On 22/03/2021 at 18:41, Guided Missile said:

As the EU shows it's true colours, how about another survey, mods, as follows:

Saints Web Definitely Not Official Third Referendum

• Leave Before - Rejoin Now
• Leave Before - Leave Now
• Leave Before - Not Bothered Now
• Remain Before - Rejoin Now
• Remain Before - Leave Now
• Remain Before - Not Bothered Now
• Not Bothered Before - Leave Now
• Not Bothered Before - Rejoin Now

Why have the poll now?

Deutsche Bank is going to collapse any day . Italy is poised to leave the EU very soon. Why not delay the poll until one of those " shitforbrains Pompey Poly predictions" comes true? 

[badgerx16]

Things must be bad if migrants are being smuggled OUT of the UK

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9388233/Turkish-lorry-driver-arrested-M25-people-smuggling-16-migrants-lorry.html

[badgerx16]

On 09/03/2021 at 07:27, Weston Super Saint said:

Not sure where all the crocodile tears have gone now that the British Steel industry is facing an actual crisis.  Seems no-one really gives a shit unless they can pin the blame on Brexit...

Don't blame Brexit, blame Cameron.....

Apparently the request for a bailout for Liberty Steel is linked to the collapse of Greesill Capital.

[rallyboy]

On a day when we have dead-pig-botherer Cameron up to his sweating balls in seedy shit and serial-denier Boris exposed for giving taxpayer cash to a woman he was secretly fucking, while his wife was being treated for cancer, the BBC has a news blackout, hiding front pages they don't like during the paper review.

They are literally editing facts they don't want to us to know, and instead leading with Jedward have shaved off their quiffs for charity, and a warning from the NHS not to be silly.

Imagine if it was Starmer, Corbyn or Sturgeon?....it would be a feeding frenzy!

But the casual voter gets to be spoonfed lovely warm no.10 PR drivel - don't bother the simple folk with facts and other nonesense.

Here's Carol with the weather....don't mention the corruption, I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it.

 

 

 

 

 

[Weston Super Saint]

55 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

On a day when we have dead-pig-botherer Cameron up to his sweating balls in seedy shit and serial-denier Boris exposed for giving taxpayer cash to a woman he was secretly fucking, while his wife was being treated for cancer, the BBC has a news blackout, hiding front pages they don't like during the paper review.

 

????

This is today's paper review : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-56553014

Front pages on display include :

 

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, rallyboy said:

On a day when we have dead-pig-botherer Cameron up to his sweating balls in seedy shit and serial-denier Boris exposed for giving taxpayer cash to a woman he was secretly fucking, while his wife was being treated for cancer, the BBC has a news blackout, hiding front pages they don't like during the paper review.

You're watching a different Andrew Marr show to the rest of us then.

[Weston Super Saint]

5 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Don't blame Brexit, blame Cameron.....

Apparently the request for a bailout for Liberty Steel is linked to the collapse of Greesill Capital.

Bailout denied - undoubtedly because of Brexit though, nothing to do with the 'shady' owner and 'shady' financial backers!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56554590

Quote

The government has rejected a request for £170m in financial support for Liberty Steel.

 

[spyinthesky]

I was a Remainer but no way can the Liberty Steel fiasco be blamed on Brexit

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, spyinthesky said:

I was a Remainer but no way can the Liberty Steel fiasco be blamed on Brexit

No it can’t but we can blame both on Cameron

[badgerx16]

Given the Environment Secretary's comments regarding the EU's import ban last week, where do people think that the UK's fresh live shellfish fishermen might find "alternative markets" ?

Edited 2 April, 2021 by badgerx16

[saintspepper]

Well, Brexit was just in time for the gast vaccination route...

[Guided Missile]

Latest from the CEO of Airbus, Guillaume Faury

Quote

Faury laughs when asked about the possibility of moving production out of Britain. “We want to grow in the UK. We will be willing to do more than we are doing to today, to have a win-win for the UK and Airbus.”

Looking forward to the negative spin the Remainers will put on this news, as they emerge from the shadows, like Japanese soldiers after WWII.