Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[View From The Top]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I'm not sure why you're surprised by this.

If you buy something from a US, Chinese, Japanese, Brazilian etc etc website you also have to pay customs charges. 

That's what baffles me too about the whole thing.

Anyone who has every bought from the States knows that all those charges are going to be levied and as a 3rd country it was going to happen when goods were bought from the EU.

It simply cannot be the case that the Brexit cultists were so invested in the "they need us more than we need them" BS and British exceptionalism that they thought they wouldn't apply to us after Jan 1st? 

Even the extra paperwork needed for food exports was well trailed, although that was screamed down as "Project Fear" when in fact, it always was going to be the case in the real world. 

[ecuk268]

10 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Do you honestly, hand on heart, believe that filling in a form costs in excess of £30 each and every time?

It's not just the form filling but the possible delays. But you know better than KPMG and the University of Nottingham. 

Based on what?  

[ecuk268]

14 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I'm not sure why you're surprised by this.

If you buy something from a US, Chinese, Japanese, Brazilian etc etc website you also have to pay customs charges. 

Boris said we would have tariff-free access to the EU.

I'm not surprised because Boris is not strong on detail (bit like Trump) and tends to say what he thinks people want to hear which, in this case, was wrong.

[Whitey Grandad]

15 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Do you honestly, hand on heart, believe that filling in a form costs in excess of £30 each and every time?

Yep. That’s cheap.

[buctootim]

It’s not just form filling, there are a while east of charges. For example a phytosanitary inspection is £180. 
 

For whole truck load of high value product going to a single customer it’s doable. For part loads, deliveries to consumers rather than businesses or lower value produce it’s not 

[Weston Super Saint]

15 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

Boris said we would have tariff-free access to the EU.

I think you've confused tariffs with customs charges. They are not the same thing.

[Weston Super Saint]

4 minutes ago, buctootim said:

It’s not just form filling, there are a while east of charges. For example a phytosanitary inspection is £180. 
 

For whole truck load of high value product going to a single customer it’s doable. For part loads, deliveries to consumers rather than businesses or lower value produce it’s not 

Most businesses will adapt and overcome. Some will fail - that's no different to what has gone before.

[buctootim]

5 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Most businesses will adapt and overcome. Some will fail - that's no different to what has gone before.

Sure. Adding £180 of costs to a £25 delivery is just the same as before. Going back to consumers not being able to buy from the best or cheapest source is the same as before. Adding £7.5 billion of costs is the same as before. 
 

The reason people often say right wingers are thick is because the lies are so simple and easily provable to be wrong.

 

5 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Most businesses will adapt and overcome. Some will fail - that's no different to what has gone before.

 

Edited 22 January, 2021 by buctootim

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I think you've confused tariffs with customs charges. They are not the same thing.

They are both charges that we didn't have for trading with the EU before Jan 1st 2021.

[Guided Missile]

5 hours ago, Guided Missile said:

Pretty much sums it up for me. Not "The Chief Executive of HMRC told MPs yesterday that British businesses will spend £7.5 billion a year handling customs declarations "

Read the statement he made again and stop conflating it with things he didn't say, or study's he didn't refer to. It was a statement of fact about something that may happen in the future. I still say that stating "British businesses will spend £7.5 billion a year handling customs declarations " is total bollox. 

[CB Fry]

Why is the Village Idiot pissing his pants about HMRC saying this prediction is "a statement of fact about the future" when it is no such thing and HMRC say it is no such thing.

It's what's known in the world of business as an estimate or a forecast.

Here:

The first permanent secretary and chief executive at HMRC said he expected 265 million customs declarations made in the UK each year when the new system is phased in – an increase of 211 million on the number of declarations made in 2017.

“My department published figures towards the end of 2019 in which set out what we expected the administrative burden to be of completing additional customs declarations. I don’t think we published any further update to that.

“The figure still stands and that from recollection is about £7.5bn for the cost of the UK side of completing declarations.”

“In 2017 there were 54 million customs declarations made in the UK. At the end of the transition period we would expect that to group to 265 million. That won’t apply straight away because import controls are being staged in over six months, but that’s the rate we expect to see them from July.”

"We expect" is not a statement of fact, any more than the SFC business plan for the next five years is a statement of fact.

I thought the idiot ran his own business. We can only conclude that business does no long term planning, forecasts or assumptions whatsoever and their sales/turnover/costs each day come as a complete surprise out of the blue every day.

Meanwhile, some other losers who didn't get the it's just "copy and paste" memo:

£160 per consignment. 

https://www.ft.com/content/82371fcb-3814-4ac1-8332-c59daaa49c8b
Donna Fordyce, of trade body Seafood Scotland, said that, even after teething problems were resolved, each consignment to the EU would cost £160 more in certification and other paperwork, a major hit for smaller exporters.

[Weston Super Saint]

8 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

They are both charges that we didn't have for trading with the EU before Jan 1st 2021.

What tariffs have been imposed since Jan 1st 2021?

[Weston Super Saint]

10 hours ago, buctootim said:

Sure. Adding £180 of costs to a £25 delivery is just the same as before. Going back to consumers not being able to buy from the best or cheapest source is the same as before. Adding £7.5 billion of costs is the same as before. 
 

The reason people often say right wingers are thick is because the lies are so simple and easily provable to be wrong.

 

 

Lol.

Once again you've not bothered to read what I wrote and have made an assumption and gone with the 'thick as pig shit' standard line.

I wrote that some businesses will adapt and overcome, some businesses will fail. I then stated that is the same that has gone on before - i.e some businesses thrive, some businesses fail.  It's a cycle that has continued for millennia!

From that, you've managed to grasp at some straws and make up some bullshit about me claiming that adding £180 of costs is the same as before.

Nice one Walter Mitty, but your attempts at one upmanship are looking increasingly desperate.

[CB Fry]

24 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Lol.

Once again you've not bothered to read what I wrote and have made an assumption and gone with the 'thick as pig shit' standard line.

I wrote that some businesses will adapt and overcome, some businesses will fail. I then stated that is the same that has gone on before - i.e some businesses thrive, some businesses fail.  It's a cycle that has continued for millennia!

From that, you've managed to grasp at some straws and make up some bullshit about me claiming that adding £180 of costs is the same as before.

Nice one Walter Mitty, but your attempts at one upmanship are looking increasingly desperate.

You should do a tour of the pubs and retail businesses who have seen their livelihoods destroyed in the floods this week.

I think your pep-talk of "it's a cycle that goes on for millenia" will go down a right treat.

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

What tariffs have been imposed since Jan 1st 2021?

Rules Of Origin have caused Ford to put up some car prices.

[aintforever]

51 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I wrote that some businesses will adapt and overcome, some businesses will fail. I then stated that is the same that has gone on before - i.e some businesses thrive, some businesses fail.  It's a cycle that has continued for millennia!

Brilliant.

[badgerx16]

An across-the-pond view;

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/23/business/brexit-business-intl-gbr/index.html

 

 

[Weston Super Saint]

30 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Brilliant.

I'm astonished you've managed to grasp the principles.

Well done you.

[Weston Super Saint]

38 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Rules Of Origin have caused Ford to put up some car prices.

So no tariffs then?

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

You should do a tour of the pubs and retail businesses who have seen their livelihoods destroyed in the floods this week.

I think your pep-talk of "it's a cycle that goes on for millenia" will go down a right treat.

So desperate to try and prove some convoluted point, you're bringing in floods!

I can only imagine you think the floods are due to Brexit as well 

[CB Fry]

21 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

So desperate to try and prove some convoluted point, you're bringing in floods!

I can only imagine you think the floods are due to Brexit as well 

No, just pointing out the tiny little flaw in your pointless reductionist "stuff happens for millennia and you just have to get on with it" routine. You can say that shit about anything. You know, for millennia.

This is why people say you are as thick as pigshit.

[badgerx16]

46 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

So no tariffs then?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-13/ford-hikes-prices-of-several-u-k-models-due-to-brexit-tariffs

Ford Motor Co. has raised prices for two of its performance-car models in the U.K., citing tariffs stemming from the Brexit trade deal.

Edited 23 January, 2021 by badgerx16

[Tamesaint]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/23/cheshire-cheesemaker-says-business-left-with-250000-brexit-hole?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

 

Ah well. Some businesses will fail and this clever one is adapting just as the original village idiot said. A pity about the lost jobs in the UK  and the tax revenue now going to the French government.

As long as there is a cafe with a floor to sweep somewhere in Weston Super Mare the original  village idiot will be OK. 

[Useful Idiot]

17 hours ago, Plastic said:

Hey brexit fans, I’m painfully aware of the negative aspects of our secession due to the MSM’s anti-farage agenda, but I haven’t heard much about the benefits yet.
Perhaps one of you winners can give me an example of something that is now better, to counterbalance all this leftie angst? TIA

Well, one exciting benefit for people shipping to or from the EU is that you can now enjoy having to take the chance that your shipment might be held up even if you correctly fill in your customs declarations!

If one other person sharing the same lorry for their shipment messes their forms up, then the whole lorry is delayed, so one idiot can mess life up for everyone else.

This makes every shipment for a small business an exciting opportunity to gamble when you book a courier!

[View From The Top]

https://www.ft.com/content/c26c550e-df9f-4973-b476-d701e341f676

Shocked I tellz you. Shocked I am.

[ecuk268]

15 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I think you've confused tariffs with customs charges. They are not the same thing.

He said "We do not anticipate any increase in customs costs in the year ahead".

Anticipate? He signed the Agreement, so you would expect him to know. 

[ecuk268]

10 hours ago, Guided Missile said:

Read the statement he made again and stop conflating it with things he didn't say, or study's he didn't refer to. It was a statement of fact about something that may happen in the future. I still say that stating "British businesses will spend £7.5 billion a year handling customs declarations " is total bollox. 

You have a unique style of argument. Just say that everything is bollox. I suppose it saves you having to think.

[badgerx16]

9 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

You have a unique style of argument. Just say that everything is bollox. I suppose it saves you having to think.

he doesn't think, he's the king of cut and paste. He relies on the right wing press to give him his opinions.

Edited 23 January, 2021 by badgerx16

[View From The Top]

I've a friend in my part of the world who has made his fortune importing table lamps, floor lamps, ceiling light fittings and the like from China and then re-selling them in the UK and the EU.

He's done it very successfully and fair play to him to branching out on his own, taking a risk and seeing an opportunity. 

We've been chatting on Discord as we sat on our turbo trainers due to the snow. 

Apparently he's trying to get a container to ship an order to the UK. Usually it would cost circa $3k but he's been quoted $14k to the UK or $8k to Antwerp/Rotterdam/Hamburg. This is due to a world wide shortage of shipping containers, which seems barmy but it's obviously true.

Another problem, apparently, is that if he gets it shipped to one of the European ports he's struggling to find a haulier to bring it over as they're not interested in all the extra paperwork and general pain in the arseness of coming to the UK. I knew they'd been issues with haulage but I didn't realise it was quite that bad.

The 3rd thing is that the extra burden of costs paperwork / customs / VAT is scaring off EU buyers which makes up 1/3 of his business. Parcels are being returned as when they arrive and extra money is needed to be paid, buyers are refusing to and goods get shipped back.

Sounds pretty grim and a perfect storm for a number of businesses and I hope this all settles down as soon as possible as a lot of small business don't deserve this.

 

[Weston Super Saint]

4 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/23/cheshire-cheesemaker-says-business-left-with-250000-brexit-hole?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

 

Ah well. Some businesses will fail and this clever one is adapting just as the original village idiot said. A pity about the lost jobs in the UK  and the tax revenue now going to the French government.

As long as there is a cafe with a floor to sweep somewhere in Weston Super Mare the original  village idiot will be OK. 

Good on him.  We need more entrepreneurs like him finding ways to continue trading with the EU.

I'm assuming he'll be moving to the EU so he can access the money he'll be making over there - if not, the amount he spends on financial services / advice to move his dosh back home will probably outweigh the amount of tax revenue lost  

Win, win!

[Weston Super Saint]

6 hours ago, CB Fry said:

No, just pointing out the tiny little flaw in your pointless reductionist "stuff happens for millennia and you just have to get on with it" routine. You can say that shit about anything. You know, for millennia.

This is why people say you are as thick as pigshit.

Lol.

Where is the flaw?

But you're right, pubs, restaurants, shops and residences have been flooded for many years.  Guess what happens?  People just get on with it, clean up, claim on their insurance, keep calm and carry on.

Not sure you've really grasped how to 'point out a flaw'.  All you've managed to do is back up what I said!

[Lord Duckhunter]

21 hours ago, Plastic said:

Hey brexit fans, I’m painfully aware of the negative aspects of our secession due to the MSM’s anti-farage agenda, but I haven’t heard much about the benefits yet.
Perhaps one of you winners can give me an example of something that is now better, to counterbalance all this leftie angst? TIA

It’s the 23rd Jan. 23 days!!!!! FFS, what’s up with you remainers.
 

Come back in 40 years and you’ll have your answer. Alternatively, vote for a rejoin party in 2024. If there’s enough of you, your “nightmare” will be over. Mind you, if we do rejoin there maybe the odd leave idiot crying and demanding a list of benefits within 3 weeks of us rejoining. 

[moonraker]

There are many Brexiteers who will argue black is white rather than admit that there are genuine problems.  The agreement Johnson hailed as a success is day by day being shown to anything but, teething trouble is a time limited excuse.  The forms will not go away, the extra costs will not go away, business will continual to fail, peoples lives will continue to be thrown into turmoil, but its OK we have Blue Passports and ??????

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Fuck me. Remoaners are even worse after we’ve left. 
 

Here’s an idea, give it a little bit longer than 3 weeks. The Remain option wasn’t to remain it what the EU is on 1/1/21, but to remain in what the EU is in 2025,2030,2040. The country will be different in 2030 outside of The EU than it would be had it remained inside, and the EU will be different in 2030 than it is today.
 

Therefore, I’ll be waiting longer than 3 weeks to determine if I’ve voted the right way,  and mistakenly I thought others would as well. I guess blinkered ideology and the desire to be proven right, makes that impossible for some. Perhaps we should have monthly referenda. 

[spyinthesky]

3 hours ago, View From The Top said:

I've a friend in my part of the world who has made his fortune importing table lamps, floor lamps, ceiling light fittings and the like from China and then re-selling them in the UK and the EU.

He's done it very successfully and fair play to him to branching out on his own, taking a risk and seeing an opportunity. 

We've been chatting on Discord as we sat on our turbo trainers due to the snow. 

Apparently he's trying to get a container to ship an order to the UK. Usually it would cost circa $3k but he's been quoted $14k to the UK or $8k to Antwerp/Rotterdam/Hamburg. This is due to a world wide shortage of shipping containers, which seems barmy but it's obviously true.

Another problem, apparently, is that if he gets it shipped to one of the European ports he's struggling to find a haulier to bring it over as they're not interested in all the extra paperwork and general pain in the arseness of coming to the UK. I knew they'd been issues with haulage but I didn't realise it was quite that bad.

The 3rd thing is that the extra burden of costs paperwork / customs / VAT is scaring off EU buyers which makes up 1/3 of his business. Parcels are being returned as when they arrive and extra money is needed to be paid, buyers are refusing to and goods get shipped back.

Sounds pretty grim and a perfect storm for a number of businesses and I hope this all settles down as soon as possible as a lot of small business don't deserve this.

 

Just a couple of points.
1. There is not a shortage of containers per se but due to a reduction in container space caused by lay up/scrapping of container vessels when trade from Asia dried up in the summer, there is a surfeit of empty containers here in Europe awaiting return to Asia to be loaded.
2. You are right to mention increased paperwork for hauliers affecting road transport.
     Another challenge is availability of HGV drivers.
     The age profile of UK HGV drivers was 58 last year and there were relatively few younger entrants into the industry and as a consequence the         shortfall has been made up by Eastern European drivers. Many of these have now decided to return home so there is a shortage of drivers so if anyone is looking for a job have a look at these new opportunities.
3. Road Haulage is a relatively low margin business and quite a few companies were struggling before the additional manpower and paperwork costs currently being experienced.

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fuck me. Remoaners are even worse after we’ve left. 
 

Here’s an idea, give it a little bit longer than 3 weeks. The Remain option wasn’t to remain it what the EU is on 1/1/21, but to remain in what the EU is in 2025,2030,2040. The country will be different in 2030 outside of The EU than it would be had it remained inside, and the EU will be different in 2030 than it is today.
 

Therefore, I’ll be waiting longer than 3 weeks to determine if I’ve voted the right way,  and mistakenly I thought others would as well. I guess blinkered ideology and the desire to be proven right, makes that impossible for some. Perhaps we should have monthly referenda. 

The only people I've seen moaning is ERG powerhouse Owen Paterson, Brexit MEP Jean Mummery, and countless Brexit supporting Fishermen.

But yeah, "it'll all be fine when I'm dead" sounds like a wonderful counter argument and I am sure those fishermen, exporters and everyone else will happily take your long view.

Edited 23 January, 2021 by CB Fry

[View From The Top]

47 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

Just a couple of points.
1. There is not a shortage of containers per se but due to a reduction in container space caused by lay up/scrapping of container vessels when trade from Asia dried up in the summer, there is a surfeit of empty containers here in Europe awaiting return to Asia to be loaded.
2. You are right to mention increased paperwork for hauliers affecting road transport.
     Another challenge is availability of HGV drivers.
     The age profile of UK HGV drivers was 58 last year and there were relatively few younger entrants into the industry and as a consequence the         shortfall has been made up by Eastern European drivers. Many of these have now decided to return home so there is a shortage of drivers so if anyone is looking for a job have a look at these new opportunities.
3. Road Haulage is a relatively low margin business and quite a few companies were struggling before the additional manpower and paperwork costs currently being experienced.

Dumb question incoming.

Don't they ship the empties back??

[ecuk268]

24 minutes ago, View From The Top said:

Dumb question incoming.

Don't they ship the empties back??

It's expensive to ship empty containers. They take up the same amount of space but have no valuable contents.

[Baird of the land]

7 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/23/cheshire-cheesemaker-says-business-left-with-250000-brexit-hole?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

 

Ah well. Some businesses will fail and this clever one is adapting just as the original village idiot said. A pity about the lost jobs in the UK  and the tax revenue now going to the French government.

As long as there is a cafe with a floor to sweep somewhere in Weston Super Mare the original  village idiot will be OK. 

Yep, doesn't seem an isolated case. Govt trade advisers appear to be advising companies to do such.

[View From The Top]

3 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

It's expensive to ship empty containers. They take up the same amount of space but have no valuable contents.

Yeah, I get that, but not much use having empty containers in Europe if there is a shortage of them in the East.

[View From The Top]

1 minute ago, Baird of the land said:

Yep, doesn't seem an isolated case. Govt trade advisers appear to be advising companies to do such.

I've just been reading an article where companies are closing down their UK based operations that deal with the EU and setting up offices in the Netherlands instead and that the advise to do so has come directly from the Dept For Trade.

That's jobs and livelihoods going.

[Tamesaint]

11 minutes ago, View From The Top said:

I've just been reading an article where companies are closing down their UK based operations that deal with the EU and setting up offices in the Netherlands instead and that the advise to do so has come directly from the Dept For Trade.

That's jobs and livelihoods going.

But don't forget. If people travel to their company's new EU offices to hand over job details, before they lose their own, they could well be travelling on blue passports. 

[Plastic]

3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s the 23rd Jan. 23 days!!!!! FFS, what’s up with you remainers.
 

Come back in 40 years and you’ll have your answer. Alternatively, vote for a rejoin party in 2024. If there’s enough of you, your “nightmare” will be over. Mind you, if we do rejoin there maybe the odd leave idiot crying and demanding a list of benefits within 3 weeks of us rejoining. 

Jesus, calm down. I was hoping you could give me some good news to salve the current pains.

However your literary aneurysm has got me a bit worried - do we really need to wait 40 years to see the benefit? I might be dead by then! ☹️

 

Edited 23 January, 2021 by Plastic

[badgerx16]

51 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Yep, doesn't seem an isolated case. Govt trade advisers appear to be advising companies to do such.

JRM shifted his money to a point inside the EU before Brexit.

[Lord Duckhunter]

With all these problems and with top top people of high intelligence pointing them out, I’m sure the momentum for rejoining will be unstoppable. A rejoin party or coalition is clearly going to sweep to power, as the old racists die out and the enlightened next generation together with disgruntled fishermen  lead us back into the wonderful EU. If a bunch of halfwits can persuade the voters to leave, surely the intelligentsia can persuade us to rejoin. 
 

Alternatively, you’re howling at the wind. 

[aintforever]

If these problems turn out to be more than just teething issues I don’t think you could rule out a rejoin ticket winning the next election. Brexit is a toxic issue at the moment but 2024 is a long way off, if it continues as it is people will soon turn.

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

With all these problems and with top top people of high intelligence pointing them out, I’m sure the momentum for rejoining will be unstoppable. A rejoin party or coalition is clearly going to sweep to power, as the old racists die out and the enlightened next generation together with disgruntled fishermen  lead us back into the wonderful EU. If a bunch of halfwits can persuade the voters to leave, surely the intelligentsia can persuade us to rejoin. 
 

Alternatively, you’re howling at the wind. 

The vast majority of people under 45 voted remain in the first place. Its hardly the preserve of the "enlightened next generation". Just people that work, run businesses and pay tax. 

Innteresting the only thing you have to say is warmed up campaign speak.

21 days in and all you've got in your armoury is some imagined electoral battle against Nick Clegg all over again.

 

 

Edited 23 January, 2021 by CB Fry

[badgerx16]

I don't recall anything in the leave campaign literature or rally speeches stating "We will have to wait for 40 years after leaving the EU before we are able to work out if it had been a good idea".

Edited 23 January, 2021 by badgerx16

[View From The Top]

18 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

The vast majority of people under 45 voted remain in the first place. Its hardly the preserve of the "enlightened next generation". Just people that work, run businesses and pay tax. 

Innteresting the only thing you have to say is warmed up campaign speak.

21 says in and all you've got in your armoury is some imagined electoral battle against Nick Clegg all over again.

 

 

I don't think he quite understands how the demographic is changing and just how pro-Europe the younger generations are.

These Farage type lounge bar bores are all the same.

[Plastic]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Alternatively, you’re howling at the wind. 

Sadly, you're bang on here.