Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[sadoldgit]

3 hours ago, Wes Tender said:

Where do think the virus originated? Do you think that it was not in China? Do give us an insight into the information that you are privy to that says it was elsewhere.

Do give us an insight into who decided that every virus had to be prefixed by where they are assumed to have originated from. I ask because I had the flu about 6 years ago and would love to know where that strain came from.

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Do give us an insight into who decided that every virus had to be prefixed by where they are assumed to have originated from. I ask because I had the flu about 6 years ago and would love to know where that strain came from.

Have a day off you mug

[spyinthesky]

3 hours ago, Wes Tender said:

Where do think the virus originated? Do you think that it was not in China? Do give us an insight into the information that you are privy to that says it was elsewhere.

Wes,
It seems highly likely that the virus started in China but calling it the 'Chinese' virus does ape the comments of a certain gentleman of some ill repute in the USA>
As a comparison the 'Spanish' flu, post WW1, seems very likely to have started on a chicken farm in the USA Mid West but the virus outbreak was then initially recorded in the Spanish press as the country was neutral in WW1 and their national press was not subject to censorship.

[badgerx16]

14 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

Wes,
It seems highly likely that the virus started in China but calling it the 'Chinese' virus does ape the comments of a certain gentleman of some ill repute in the USA>
As a comparison the 'Spanish' flu, post WW1, seems very likely to have started on a chicken farm in the USA Mid West but the virus outbreak was then initially recorded in the Spanish press as the country was neutral in WW1 and their national press was not subject to censorship.

To term anything as Chinese, Spanish, etc may be deemed to lend an air of identification, ownership, and perhaps blame with a nationality or particular people, race, or skin tone. In contrast, the Ebola virus, White Nile fever, etc, give a geographical context to an outbreak, without implication of an 'ism.

 

Anyway, to get back on topic, UK Chief Negotiator Lord Frost has said "We made our fair share of compromises". I wonder what they were.

Edited 24 December, 2020 by badgerx16

[badgerx16]

Reported on the BBC:

On Policing and security,

"But the brutal truth is that the agreement downgrades what British police can achieve - and how quickly.

There’s an extradition agreement which avoids the nightmare scenario of suspects being held for months if not years as the courts wrangle over sending them for trial abroad.

And while the UK retains what is seemingly a considerable presence within Europol, the cross-border co-operative organised crime-fighting agency, it's no longer a "member" and will be unable to dictate its priorities.

The UK is still part of an ambitious plan linking DNA and fingerprint systems. But, as expected, the UK will have to unplug its connection to an enormous real-time database that shares alerts on wanted or missing people.

And while they'll have access to the EU's database on air travellers, it will be limited - meaning British police, like their US counterparts, won't be allowed to use all the tools.

And it's those nuances that are why the EU says the UK will no longer benefit from "privileged co-operation amongst police and judicial authorities"."

 

 

[trousers]

17 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Reported on the BBC:

On Policing and security,

"But the brutal truth is that the agreement downgrades what British police can achieve - and how quickly.

There’s an extradition agreement which avoids the nightmare scenario of suspects being held for months if not years as the courts wrangle over sending them for trial abroad.

And while the UK retains what is seemingly a considerable presence within Europol, the cross-border co-operative organised crime-fighting agency, it's no longer a "member" and will be unable to dictate its priorities.

The UK is still part of an ambitious plan linking DNA and fingerprint systems. But, as expected, the UK will have to unplug its connection to an enormous real-time database that shares alerts on wanted or missing people.

And while they'll have access to the EU's database on air travellers, it will be limited - meaning British police, like their US counterparts, won't be allowed to use all the tools.

And it's those nuances that are why the EU says the UK will no longer benefit from "privileged co-operation amongst police and judicial authorities"."

 

 

Is there any reason why the EU would want to put the c.4 million EU citizens that live in the UK at greater risk than now by not providing information/intelligence on individuals or groups that were a threat to the UK in a timely manner?

Edited 24 December, 2020 by trousers

[badgerx16]

13 minutes ago, trousers said:

Is there any reason why the EU would want to put the c.4 million EU citizens that live in the UK at greater risk than now by not providing information/intelligence on individuals or groups that were a threat to the UK in a timely manner?

In which case, why make the changes outlined ? Perhaps their reason is that they don't trust the UK with some of those systems ? To be honest, you would be better off asking them, they asked for it to be put in and we agreed.

Edited 24 December, 2020 by badgerx16

[trousers]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

In which case, why make the changes outlined ?

Indeed. It would appear both 'sides' have agreed to make both UK and EU citizens less safe? 

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

Indeed. It would appear both 'sides' have agreed to make both UK and EU citizens less safe? 

Less safe, poorer, what else does this great 'deal' have in store for us ?

[buctootim]

58 minutes ago, trousers said:

Is there any reason why the EU would want to put the c.4 million EU citizens that live in the UK at greater risk than now by not providing information/intelligence on individuals or groups that were a threat to the UK in a timely manner?

The EU has already accused the UK of abusing the data by using it for purposes it was not collected and breaking the agreements it undertook when getting access. I have no ideas of the details of who did what.   

[badgerx16]

BBC talking of Boris' statement;

"But his manifest error in declaring there are "no non-tariff barriers" for trade with the EU had business leaders falling off their chairs.

This is patently not the case. The government has entire websites informing the public and businesses of tens of millions of new customs declarations, export health checks, regulatory checks, rules of origin checks, conformity assessments."

[Lord Duckhunter]

“The deal is not perfect but it is a big moment. 

This victory is a tribute to the ordinary men and women who stood up against the Westminster establishment — and won.

There is no going back.”

 

 

Edited 24 December, 2020 by Lord Duckhunter

[Saint86]

So good or bad deal? 

[badgerx16]

4 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

“The deal is not perfect but it is a big moment. 

This victory is a tribute to the ordinary men and women who stood up against the Westminster establishment — and won.

There is no going back.”

 

 

Frog faced berk.

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

So good or bad deal? 

Compared to what?

[badgerx16]

8 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

So good or bad deal? 

More of a fudge I suspect. Good in the fact that the whole farago is hopefully finally over, bad in that either;(1) if a remain supporter it draws a final Blue Line under the process, (2) If a leave supporter it won't deliverall that was promised or inferred.

Edited 24 December, 2020 by badgerx16

[Guided Missile]

On 28/06/2016 at 21:14, CHAPEL END CHARLIE said:

I see that Angela Merkel has confirmed today in the Bundestag that (as far as she is concerned anyway) the UK will not be granted access to the EU Single Market without accepting the 'free movement' component of that concept. In truth this has been perfectly clear throughout the referendum campaign as some of us have pointed out. However, that did not stop some from attempting to dispute it of course ...

Ha ha ha...

[badgerx16]

5 minutes ago, Guided Missile said:

Ha ha ha...

What's funny ? The FT says,

“The agreement provides for continued and sustainable air, road, rail and maritime connectivity, though market access falls below what the single market offers,"

[Tamesaint]

47 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

What's funny ? The FT says,

“The agreement provides for continued and sustainable air, road, rail and maritime connectivity, though market access falls below what the single market offers,"

Clearly if you run a tinpot company selling poison you find this sort of thing funny.

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

More of a fudge I suspect. Good in the fact that the whole farago is hopefully finally over, bad in that either;(1) if a remain supporter it draws a final Blue Line under the process, (2) If a leave supporter it won't deliverall that was promised or inferred.

It delivers on what the majority of people voted leave for, which is ending freedom of movement and removing EU courts jurisdiction. The tariff and quota free trade agreement is an unexpected bonus to be fair, as the EU claimed there was no way we would get that without accepting freedom of movement and EU law; so they've buckled massively on that point. 

[badgerx16]

13 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

It delivers on what the majority of people voted leave for, which is ending freedom of movement ...

Which in itself is a 2 edged sword.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

More of a fudge I suspect. Good in the fact that the whole farago is hopefully finally over, bad in that either;(1) if a remain supporter it draws a final Blue Line under the process, (2) If a leave supporter it won't deliverall that was promised or inferred.

Nah, the anti Boris brigade will point out its not as good as it could have been, the pro Boris lot will bang on about the good bits, he got Brexit done etc. Then in a couple of weeks they’ll be back to playing candy crush until the next big outrage 

[hypochondriac]

Deal looks decent on the face of it. I'm happy with it unless someone finds something unexpected. 

[Saint_clark]

5 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Which in itself is a 2 edged sword.

Because queues are longer going on holiday? 

[Wes Tender]

7 hours ago, buctootim said:

Maybe not for you but for a lot of Brexit voters it was also about economics  - a steady flow of Eastern Europeans keeping unskilled labour wages low by increasing supply. 

People had various different reasons for wanting to leave the EU. You're still sore after all this time that there were more of them than wanted us to remain. I think that you'll find that the main objection that many had towards immigrants from Eastern Europe, was that they were able to come over here in uncontrolled numbers just because they were from an EU country. Lots of remoaners liked the steady flow of Eastern Europeans, because they could get cheap building and plumbing work done, and a plentiful supply of cheap childminders, cleaners and baristas to serve them their lattes.

[Wes Tender]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Frog faced berk.

When he stood in the European Parliament and said that he would campaign for the UK to leave the EU, they all laughed. They're not laughing now.

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Wes Tender said:

When he stood in the European Parliament and said that he would campaign for the UK to leave the EU, they all laughed. They're not laughing now.

So, he is still a frog faced berk.

[John B]

10 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

“The deal is not perfect but it is a big moment. 

This victory is a tribute to the ordinary men and women who stood up against the Westminster establishment — and won.

There is no going back.”

 

 

A deal that means: -Trade more difficult -More rules, red tape, cost -End Freedom of Movement -Nothing on services - 80% of economy -Data uncertain -And travel, insurance, pets problems And that’s good? 

 

Really 

[John B]

Johnson says the deal ‘has delivered everything from the ‘2016 Brexit campaign’ So when will the NHS start getting its £350m a week?

 

Today is Brexit’s highwater mark. In a few days time it becomes reality not unicornology. The damage will become clearer and clearer.

[egg]

52 minutes ago, John B said:

A deal that means: -Trade more difficult -More rules, red tape, cost -End Freedom of Movement -Nothing on services - 80% of economy -Data uncertain -And travel, insurance, pets problems And that’s good? 

 

Really 

It was that or wto mate. Lesser of two evils. 

[Chez]

9 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Deal looks decent on the face of it. I'm happy with it unless someone finds something unexpected. 

not unexpected, but the fact the UK government doesn't seem to have even bothered to try and negotiate a deal that covered services, which is 42% of all UK exports to the EU (just the £138 billion of trade), is bazaar. The UK economy is 80% service based. I find it amazing that this sector was ignored. Have I missed something?

[Chez]

17 minutes ago, egg said:

It was that or wto mate. Lesser of two evils. 

if you are in the service industry (and most of us are), it actually is a no-deal. 

[egg]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

not unexpected, but the fact the UK government doesn't seem to have even bothered to try and negotiate a deal that covered services, which is 42% of all UK exports to the EU (just the £138 billion of trade), is bazaar. The UK economy is 80% service based. I find it amazing that this sector was ignored. Have I missed something?

They will have tried for 4 years, but we had to take what were given or face wto terms. The reality of this will bite hard, although someone will come along and tell you that we can look forward to unspecified trade with unspecified trading blocks. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, John B said:

Johnson says the deal ‘has delivered everything from the ‘2016 Brexit campaign’ So when will the NHS start getting its £350m a week?

Done 

 

“The NHS is to get an extra £384 million a week after Brexit, Prime Minister Theresa May has said.

In a major announcement to mark the 70th anniversary of the health service, the PM has said it will receive an additional £20 billion a year in real terms funding by 2024.

It is expected that taxes and borrowing will rise to pay for the increase in funding, and resources will be redirected from the more than £9 billion a year the UK currently pays into the EU.

Writing in the Mail on Sunday, Mrs May said: “Now, as we leave the European Union and stop paying significant annual subscriptions to Brussels, we will have more money to spend on priorities such as the NHS.

“But to give the NHS the funding it needs for the future, this Brexit dividend will not be enough.”

Ahead of a major speech on the issue on Monday, Mrs May added: “As a country, we need to contribute a bit more in a fair and balanced way. We will listen to views about how we do this and the Chancellor will set out the detail in due course. To deliver, this plan must be about more than money. ”

The figure tops the controversial £350 million a week increase promised by the Leave campaign during the referendum.”

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

not unexpected, but the fact the UK government doesn't seem to have even bothered to try and negotiate a deal that covered services, which is 42% of all UK exports to the EU (just the £138 billion of trade), is bazaar. The UK economy is 80% service based. I find it amazing that this sector was ignored. Have I missed something? 

This is NY Times. 

Both sides had agreed during the negotiations to discuss financial services separately. The U.K. government said in a document published Thursday that the agreement includes provisions to support trade in services, including financial services and legal services.

“This will provide many U.K. service suppliers with legal guarantees that they will not face barriers to trade when selling into the EU and will support the mobility of U.K. professionals who will continue to do business across the EU,” according to the document.

The agreement includes what the U.K. government described as “groundbreaking provisions” on legal services which allow U.K. lawyers to advise clients across the EU on U.K. and public international law, except where EU members place specific limits on this.

From Jan. 1, U.K.-based financial institutions lose automatic access to the EU’s single market. To serve customers in the EU next year, U.K.-based institutions will have to be granted equivalence rights, under which the EU allows them to conduct certain financial activities. Equivalence rights can be withdrawn at short notice. So far the EU has granted temporary equivalence rights to British clearinghouses, which operate between buyers and sellers in trades and pledge to complete the deal even if one side reneges. London has much of this financial plumbing, which manages trillions of dollars of derivatives contracts every day.

The sides will continue discussing how to move forward on granting equivalence and pledged to codify a framework for regulatory cooperation.

[AlexLaw76]

On 07/07/2016 at 14:09, buctootim said:

 

You're going to be so disappointed

This was your response to this comment immediately above.

We are coming out of the EU and good riddance.

 

Did you really think/believe we would not leave the EU, let alone get a free trade deal? What did you predict 4 years ago?

 

Merry breXMAS to all.

Edited 25 December, 2020 by AlexLaw76

[badgerx16]

47 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Done 

 

“The NHS is to get an extra £384 million a week after Brexit, Prime Minister Theresa May has said.

In a major announcement to mark the 70th anniversary of the health service, the PM has said it will receive an additional £20 billion a year in real terms funding by 2024.

It is expected that taxes and borrowing will rise to pay for the increase in funding, and resources will be redirected from the more than £9 billion a year the UK currently pays into the EU.

Writing in the Mail on Sunday, Mrs May said: “Now, as we leave the European Union and stop paying significant annual subscriptions to Brussels, we will have more money to spend on priorities such as the NHS.

“But to give the NHS the funding it needs for the future, this Brexit dividend will not be enough.”

Ahead of a major speech on the issue on Monday, Mrs May added: “As a country, we need to contribute a bit more in a fair and balanced way. We will listen to views about how we do this and the Chancellor will set out the detail in due course. To deliver, this plan must be about more than money. ”

The figure tops the controversial £350 million a week increase promised by the Leave campaign during the referendum.”

What that means is that by 2024 the NHS will be getting that amount. It is incremental rather than kicking in immediately "after Brexit", and does not cover the full NHS budget. In order to generate the headline figure there will need to be additional revenue generation as it is far more than our EU budget contribution.

 

https://fullfact.org/health/nhs-england-394-million-more/

 

 

[trousers]

3 hours ago, John B said:

when will the NHS start getting its £350m a week?

Is the confusion some people display with the difference between a 'suggestion' and a 'committment' genuine confusion or faux confusion?

(My intrigue is genuine, not faux )

[badgerx16]

40 minutes ago, trousers said:

Is the confusion some people display with the difference between a 'suggestion' and a 'committment' genuine confusion or faux confusion?

(My intrigue is genuine, not faux )

The difference between "Let's fund...", ( "Let us fund..." ), and "We could fund..." ?

Your 'intrigue' is completely faux - you just love whatabouttery.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, badgerx16 said:

The difference between "Let's fund...", ( "Let us fund..." ), and "We could fund..." ?

Your 'intrigue' is completely faux - you just love whatabouttery.

Reading your posts over the last day, you strike me as someone who is trying (v.hard) to be reasonable about the apparent impossible trade deal achieved, when you are probably fewmin on the inside.

It's a fine balance, could go either way!!!

 

I remember a a family friend (a remain supporter) shouting at me because I just did not get it that to get a free-trade deal, we would have no choice but pay massive subsidies, have EU law take primacy and probably have to accept freedom of movement and none of this was remotely possible in 4 years to sort, let alone 9-12 months.

What did I know....eh?

 

Merry Xmas Badgerx16, just let it go now.

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Reading your posts over the last day, you strike me as someone who is trying (v.hard) to be reasonable about the apparent impossible trade deal achieved, when you are probably fewmin on the inside.

It's a fine balance, could go either way!!!

 

I remember a a family friend (a remain supporter) shouting at me because I just did not get it that to get a free-trade deal, we would have no choice but pay massive subsidies, have EU law take primacy and probably have to accept freedom of movement and none of this was remotely possible in 4 years to sort, let alone 9-12 months.

What did I know....eh?

 

Merry Xmas Badgerx16, just let it go now.

Don't patronise me you oik. 😉

[Lord Duckhunter]

13 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

What that means is that by 2024 the NHS will be getting that amount.

 

 

Brilliant, so it’s been delivered then. Perhaps had we left earlier, we’d have got the money earlier. But never mind, as you say, the NHS will be getting that amount. The message on the bus didn’t mention timescales. But fair play to you, unlike other remainers you’ve accepted it’s going to be delivered. 

Edited 25 December, 2020 by Lord Duckhunter

[badgerx16]

18 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Brilliant, so it’s been delivered then. Perhaps had we left earlier, we’d have got the money earlier. But never mind, as you say, the NHS will be getting that amount. The message on the bus didn’t mention timescales. 

As long as you are happy with the rise in taxes that will almost certainly go with it to cover the gap between the EU budgetry contribution and the proposed spending level.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The Editor of Bild, Europe’s largest selling newspaper confirms what Brexiters claimed all along, that German economic interests would ensure a deal. He claims Barnier was trying to goad us Brits to walk away, believing we’d come back in 6 moths tail between our legs. That he was sidelined because Berlin believed this would cause an economic disaster in The EU, specifically mentioning  German car makers. He claims that  Merkel worked behind the scenes with Frau von der Leyen, before finally praising the deal thus; 

“Your Prime Minister has achieved a deal which is nothing short of sensational: What Mr Johnson has achieved is a tailor-made agreement that allows full access to your most important market while being able to write your own laws and standards – as long as you play fair, which is something British traders have been renowned for doing for centuries.”

All negotiated in 12 months. Looks like it was a pretty easy deal to get done after all. And Boris does get to have his cake & eat it. 

 

 

 

Edited 26 December, 2020 by Lord Duckhunter

[John B]

12 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Brilliant, so it’s been delivered then. Perhaps had we left earlier, we’d have got the money earlier. But never mind, as you say, the NHS will be getting that amount. The message on the bus didn’t mention timescales. But fair play to you, unlike other remainers you’ve accepted it’s going to be delivered. 

Perhaps most poignantly, and even most importantly, dishonesty won. That in itself is a bad thing surely

[John B]

On 25/12/2020 at 08:09, Chez said:

if you are in the service industry (and most of us are), it actually is a no-deal. 

And in a massive twist of fate, Brexiters have ended up coming to the rescue of the German carmakers by guaranteeing them tariff free sales in the UK! (While at the same time blocking the free movement of our services across the EU!)

[CB Fry]

Just now, John B said:

And in a massive twist of fate, Brexiters have ended up coming to the rescue of the German carmakers by guaranteeing them tariff free sales in the UK! (While at the same time blocking the free movement of our services across the EU!)

The UK has had its cake and eat it in in as much as the headlines and the Guido-retards can crow that "it's done and people said it would never be done" etc etc but in reality we've capitulated to pretty much every EU demand.

From May's "no British Prime Minister would ever agree to a border down the Irish sea" to signing up to alignment on every EU standard and requirement on New Years day with layers of arbitration if we ever stray from them.

Boris has given in to all if it because he knows he can just lie ("there are no non-tariff barriers") and people will lap it up so they can claim victory. The substance quite irrelevant.

And we won't stray from EU standards because now we can just say we chose to stick to them because of sovereignty innit.

He's a better liar and salesman than May was, is all.

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 minute ago, John B said:

And in a massive twist of fate, Brexiters have ended up coming to the rescue of the German carmakers by guaranteeing them tariff free sales in the UK! (While at the same time blocking the free movement of our services across the EU!)

Firstly, there’s not really a single market in services, there’s still barriers to trade. Even the Irish are pushing for these to be broken down and the great lady thought this the area her Single market failed to cover. But secondly, both sides have agreed to continue to negotiate in this area, with the EU  granting temporary equivalence rights until it’s sorted.

Not that anything will stop your sniping and moaning. Most remainers will be grateful a deals been done, and those that aren’t can campaign to rejoin. Good luck with that, but first you’ll need to find your Nigel. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

15 minutes ago, John B said:

And in a massive twist of fate, Brexiters have ended up coming to the rescue of the German carmakers by guaranteeing them tariff free sales in the UK! (While at the same time blocking the free movement of our services across the EU!)

Tariffs are a tax on consumers, as goods will cost consumers more. Is it not a good thing that Audis, BMW’s & Volkswagen’s will remain tariff free for British consumers? 

[buctootim]

23 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Tariffs are a tax on consumers, as goods will cost consumers more. Is it not a good thing that Audis, BMW’s & Volkswagen’s will remain tariff free for British consumers? 

I think the point he is making is that the EU have retained the benefits they got as Britain being a member ie a market for where their products are strong but we have lost access to our biggest market for our biggest earner - services