Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Weston Super Saint]

3 hours ago, aintforever said:

This. A bunch of old wankers have taken their chance to give two fingers to Germany and we are going to be left with the consequences. 

You had a vote, you bottled it and didn't use it. Stop whining like a child that's had his sweets stolen from him.

[whelk]

35 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

According to the Express, dear old Nige is kicking off and calling it another EU treaty. I thought Ducky said that he was ok with it?

Actually he was quite measured on CH4 News just now.

[Wes Tender]

36 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

Wes,
As a Remainer (but not a rabid one) I hope whatever deal has been agreed will provide the Nirvana that you and others predict, I really do.
Realistically I doubt whether we will be able to make a valued judgement for 5 or perhaps 10 years.
If I am still around, and compos mentis at that stage and the UK remains and is and thriving outside the EU, I would like the opportunity to buy you a decent bottle of something and bow down to your superior insight.

Thanks for a sensible grown-up viewpoint. Any level-headed person would want what was best for the country, not to wish failure on the decision to leave so that they can crow about how they were right. Opinions that we would make a success of it, or that we would have been better off remaining in the EU are perfectly understandable, but wishing for your country to fail is reprehensible. We should all draw a line under Brexit and do our best to make the most of the new opportunities that now present themselves to us. As you say, it will probably be at least five years before a reasoned judgement can be made, especially as we first have to see out the effects of the Chinese virus on the economy.

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, Wes Tender said:

We'll be thriving as part of much bigger and more important trading blocks than the EU,.....

What, as the 51st State of the Union ?

[Tamesaint]

That Nigel is a truly amazing bloke. The deal hasn't been formalised yet and runs to over 2,000 pages yet he says that it is ok.

He may have been one of the Donald's cheerleaders but he must be a genius when it comes to reading 2,000 pages of legalese and working out all the implications. 

(The same can also be said about JPM's analysis). 

 

[sadoldgit]

34 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

Thanks for a sensible grown-up viewpoint. Any level-headed person would want what was best for the country, not to wish failure on the decision to leave so that they can crow about how they were right. Opinions that we would make a success of it, or that we would have been better off remaining in the EU are perfectly understandable, but wishing for your country to fail is reprehensible. We should all draw a line under Brexit and do our best to make the most of the new opportunities that now present themselves to us. As you say, it will probably be at least five years before a reasoned judgement can be made, especially as we first have to see out the effects of the Chinese virus on the economy.

The virus has a nationality? Wow! I think your words might have more resonance if you didn’t sound like Donald Trump.

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

That Nigel is a truly amazing bloke. The deal hasn't been formalised yet and runs to over 2,000 pages yet he says that it is ok.

He may have been one of the Donald's cheerleaders but he must be a genius when it comes to reading 2,000 pages of legalese and working out all the implications. 

(The same can also be said about JPM's analysis). 

 

I expect he's got some insiders giving him the headlines on the major bits. Like he said not perfect but presumably it meets his tests in the majority of areas wher eit matters. 

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

....but presumably it meets his tests in the majority of areas where it matters. 

The cynic in me says that is those areas where he can make most money as a consequence.

[Wes Tender]

14 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

The virus has a nationality? Wow! I think your words might have more resonance if you didn’t sound like Donald Trump.

Where do think the virus originated? Do you think that it was not in China? Do give us an insight into the information that you are privy to that says it was elsewhere.

[badgerx16]

6 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

Where do think the virus originated? Do you think that it was not in China? Do give us an insight into the information that you are privy to that says it was elsewhere.

So would you refer to Ebola as the 'Congo virus' ?

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

So would you refer to Ebola as the 'Congo virus' ?

'Ebola' is a geographical reference, ergo it could be argued that Wes is being consistent by using a geographical reference to describe Covid-19...?

[badgerx16]

11 minutes ago, trousers said:

'Ebola' is a geographical reference, ergo it could be argued that Wes is being consistent by using a geographical reference to describe Covid-19...?

And you know full well that that would not be the case. His 'Trump-eting' of the term 'Chinese virus' is just another of his particular affectations, and not one of his own creation. His use of the term is specifically pointed to the bogus claims about how the virus emerged into the wild - a theory espoused by Trump, and championed on here by GM in particular.

Edited 24 December, 2020 by badgerx16

[trousers]

Downing Street press conference at 3pm 

[trousers]

[trousers]

[buctootim]

3 minutes ago, trousers said:

Downing Street press conference at 3pm 

It's going to be a great deal. The best deal ever. Negotiated by a strong and stable genius. Oh wait that's Trump not Johnson. I get their desperate flogging of turkeys mixed up.   

[badgerx16]

 

[buctootim]

39 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

Where do think the virus originated? Do you think that it was not in China? Do give us an insight into the information that you are privy to that says it was elsewhere.

Maybe we should name steaming heaps of of animal by-product the 'West End Argument'

[LGTL]

On 11/12/2020 at 13:02, CB Fry said:

The more Boris ramps up the no-deal likelihood (this morning we are now up to "very, very likely") the more it feels like we will get a deal.

We're a "memorandum of understanding" on an "arbitration panel" away from a deal.

The only objective Boris gives a shit about is to look like he's won. That's infinitely more important than anyone's job, or fishermen or business (Fuck business, as he said).

So he just needs to ramp up the catastrophe to give him the room to concede everything (as he has already done on Ireland) and paint it as a stunning victory.

Come this time next week they'll be a deal and we get to listen to the Guido-ette dinlows on here giving it the "and you said it couldn't be done" routine all over again.

Pretty much spot on CB Fry! Good call. 

[revolution saint]

1 hour ago, Wes Tender said:

Thanks for a sensible grown-up viewpoint. Any level-headed person would want what was best for the country, not to wish failure on the decision to leave so that they can crow about how they were right. Opinions that we would make a success of it, or that we would have been better off remaining in the EU are perfectly understandable, but wishing for your country to fail is reprehensible. We should all draw a line under Brexit and do our best to make the most of the new opportunities that now present themselves to us. As you say, it will probably be at least five years before a reasoned judgement can be made, especially as we first have to see out the effects of the Chinese virus on the economy.

Shouldn't really take that long though should it Wes?  Surely we can measure our success in terms of growth against other comparable EU countries?  For me this is all about economics - if we're richer as a result then great, I won't stop you feeling free to knock one out over a picture of Nige.  If we're not though then it's been a failure that has wasted billions.  What I hope doesn't happen is more shifting of blame - sounds like you got what you want so congratulations on that but no more excuses and blaming remoaners or the nasty EU.  It's time to deliver now.

[AlexLaw76]

8 minutes ago, buctootim said:

It's going to be a great deal. The best deal ever. Negotiated by a strong and stable genius. Oh wait that's Trump not Johnson. I get their desperate flogging of turkeys mixed up.   

Looks like a pretty good tariff and quota free-trade deal, with both sides making reasonable compromises. No role for the European Courts of Justice and law et al are returned home. 

Which is what we were told, over and over, was never remotely possible. Not an iota, why would the EU give an inch (we were told)? 

Going forward, will this be known as the UK deal? Either way, so far removed from the "extreme Tory/No Deal Brexit" advertised

All within 12 months of a proper govt. If only this happened in 2016....

 

Edited 24 December, 2020 by AlexLaw76

[buctootim]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Looks like a pretty good tariff and quota free-trade deal, with both sides making reasonable compromises. No role for the European Courts of Justice and law et al are returned home.

Which is what we were told, over and over, was never remotely possible. Not an iota, why would the EU give an inch (we were told)? 

Going forward, will this be known as the UK deal? 

All within 12 months of a proper govt. If only this happened in 2016....

 

It's 2,000 pages you haven't even seen yet. You have absolutely no basis to make that statement apart from what the No10 spin doctor wanted you to think. 

[LGTL]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Looks like a pretty good tariff and quota free-trade deal, with both sides making reasonable compromises. No role for the European Courts of Justice and law et al are returned home.

Which is what we were told, over and over, was never remotely possible. Not an iota, why would the EU give an inch (we were told)? 

Going forward, will this be known as the UK deal? 

All within 12 months of a proper govt. If only this happened in 2016....

 

Quite. It was an election won on delivering Brexit and delivering Brexit only. And they’ve done that, fair play to them, let’s see how it goes.

Thank goodness a proper public emergency that’s a matter of life, death and finances hasn’t come along to test how really ‘proper’ they are. Ah, bollocks. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

 For me this is all about economics 

That’s why you don’t get it, and exactly why your side lost. 
 

[trousers]

4 minutes ago, buctootim said:

It's 2,000 pages you haven't even seen yet. You have absolutely no basis to make that statement apart from what the No10 spin doctor wanted you to think. 

I'm sure there'll be plenty of people on both 'sides' jumping to conclusions before they've read all 2,000 pages...

Edited 24 December, 2020 by trousers

[buctootim]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

That’s why you don’t get it, and exactly why your side lost. 
 

Maybe not for you but for a lot of Brexit voters it was also about economics  - a steady flow of Eastern Europeans keeping unskilled labour wages low by increasing supply. 

[LGTL]

I’ve read all 2000 pages and can confirm it’s not as good as Brexiteers insist and not as bad as remainers insist.

Edited 24 December, 2020 by LGTL

[buctootim]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

I'm sure there'll be plenty of people on both 'sides' jumping to conclusions before they've read all 2,000 pages...

Ha I'm sure . My point was actually more about not trusting Johnson to tell me its raining than any view on the deal.  

[revolution saint]

Just now, Lord Duckhunter said:

That’s why you don’t get it, and exactly why your side lost. 
 

Indeed, I don't get your half baked idea that an outdated vision of sovereignty trumps economic prosperity.  More importantly though neither do any of the other brexiteers otherwise they would have had the balls to admit it.  Every time an economic warning has been made concerning brexit it's been labelled untrue and "project fear" so, like it or not, success is going to be based on how well we do economically.

[buctootim]

Anybody else somewhat disturbed by the fact that a supposedly terrible failed German Defence minister is such a better communicator and inspires more confidence than any of our current PM and ministers, Sunak aside? 

[rooney]

1 hour ago, Tamesaint said:

That Nigel is a truly amazing bloke. The deal hasn't been formalised yet and runs to over 2,000 pages yet he says that it is ok.

He may have been one of the Donald's cheerleaders but he must be a genius when it comes to reading 2,000 pages of legalese and working out all the implications. 

(The same can also be said about JPM's analysis). 

 

He has obviously been on a Rapid Reading and Report Writing Course. You read the first para., then the first sentence of each following para and finally the last para. this normally gives you the gist of the Report. Try it.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 minute ago, buctootim said:

Maybe not for you but for a lot of Brexit voters it was also about economics  - a steady flow of Eastern Europeans keeping unskilled labour wages low by increasing supply. 

Well that was what Stuart Rose, the chair of the remain campaign, claimed. There’s a balancing act of sovereignty as opposed to economics and most leave voters felt it had gone too far.

But you know who really was to blame for your loss, people like Major, Cameron, Brown, etc who played up euro scepticism to win votes. They blamed EU and said it needed reform, when they couldn’t reform it, the logical conclusion was to leave. Nigels position was coherent & consistent, theirs wasn’t. They never defended the principle of ever closer union, never defended FoM and never ever tried to change our minds. I mentioned earlier a German I met in a Portuguese bar. He gave a coherent argument for The EU, compared it to The UK, in his eyes a Pole in Germany was the equivalent of a sweaty in London. He gave a passionate defence of the EU the like of which British politicians hid from. That’s why we’re here, your side spent 40 years trying to pretend the EU was something it wasn’t, instead of trying to sell what it was to us. 

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, rooney said:

He has obviously been on a Rapid Reading and Report Writing Course. You read the first para., then the first sentence of each following para and finally the last para. this normally gives you the gist of the Report. Try it.

It's an even better trick when applied to a document that hasn't been completed, let alone published, at the time you summarise it.

Edited 24 December, 2020 by badgerx16

[trousers]

[buctootim]

4 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Well that was what Stuart Rose, the chair of the remain campaign, claimed. There’s a balancing act of sovereignty as opposed to economics and most leave voters felt it had gone too far.

But you know who really was to blame for your loss, people like Major, Cameron, Brown, etc who played up euro scepticism to win votes. They blamed EU and said it needed reform, when they couldn’t reform it, the logical conclusion was to leave. Nigels position was coherent & consistent, theirs wasn’t. They never defended the principle of ever closer union, never defended FoM and never ever tried to change our minds. I mentioned earlier a German I met in a Portuguese bar. He gave a coherent argument for The EU, compared it to The UK, in his eyes a Pole in Germany was the equivalent of a sweaty in London. He gave a passionate defence of the EU the like of which British politicians hid from. That’s why we’re here, your side spent 40 years trying to pretend the EU was something it wasn’t, instead of trying to sell what it was to us. 

Yep fair points. The EU has been used for decades as a convenient whipping boy for unpopular decisions by UK politicians - mostly but not exclusively the Tory Party to avoid confronting the divisions in the party.  

You could create a worthwhile Brexit by substantially improving the lot of working people on low wages. Skills training, halving the cost of housing and raising wages by restricting labour flows. But the Tories would never do that - it would upset too many elderly property owners and people who benefit from low costs staff in pubs, coffee shops and garages.  

The biggest regret for me is that I feel UK Governments primary interest is companies and they see my role is as a consumer - a wallet to buy stuff. The EU's actions generally made me feel more like a citizen with rights.    

Edited 24 December, 2020 by buctootim

[Baird of the land]

Relieved that a disastrous no deal seems to have been avoided.

still think we’re a lot worse off but ship has sailed for a number of years at least.

[badgerx16]

10 minutes ago, trousers said:

https://www.itv.com/news/london/update/2013-04-10/boris-nets-an-odds-defying-basketball-shot-after-many-failed-attempts-to-net-an-average/

[Lord Duckhunter]

I think both remainers & leavers can come together & agree Peston is an arse. FFS get to the question man. 

[badgerx16]

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/24/business/brexit-deal-economy/index.html

"Brexit is finally done. It will leave the UK poorer"

[buctootim]

3 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I think both remainers & leavers can come together & agree Peston is an arse. FFS get to the question man. 

 

Equally rambling tedious answer though too

[Guided Missile]

Boris has played an absolute blinder. 

[buctootim]

Just now, Guided Missile said:

Boris has played an absolute blinder. 

Where did I put that GM quote about Trump playing an absolute blinder with his election legal challenge.... 

[aintforever]

1 minute ago, Guided Missile said:

Boris has played an absolute blinder. 

Is that the same as the Trump blinder or better? 

[badgerx16]

6 minutes ago, Guided Missile said:

Boris has played an absolute blinder. 

Hardly anybody yet knows what is in the 'deal', yet already there are so many experts on it's content. Let's wait and see where both sides' 'red lines' have been blurred, and where concessions were made.

[Whitey Grandad]

9 minutes ago, Guided Missile said:

Boris has played an absolute blinder. 

Who has he blinded this time?

[Verbal]

1 hour ago, Wes Tender said:

Where do think the virus originated? Do you think that it was not in China? Do give us an insight into the information that you are privy to that says it was elsewhere.

As others have said, this is just a mindless regurgitation of Trump doing his tedious routine.  The far-right, here, as in the US, exist only to fight culture wars - there's nothing else between its collective ears than to 'own the libtards'. 

Let me know when you rename HIV the 'Africa virus'.  

[aintforever]

27 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/24/business/brexit-deal-economy/index.html

"Brexit is finally done. It will leave the UK poorer"

We might have less money but we will have shit loads of fish. We’re playing a blinder.

[View From The Top]

42 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Relieved that a disastrous no deal seems to have been avoided.

still think we’re a lot worse off but ship has sailed for a number of years at least.

That's a good summary of my position.

[View From The Top]

 

[trousers]