Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Weston Super Saint]

6 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Economically it is insignificant, politically it's where Boris has hung his balls. If it is worth throwing away any chance of a deal with the EU over that particular point of principle is a matter of opinion. Is it worth putting %50 of UK GDP in jeopardy for 0.1% ? You may think so, Wes certainly thinks so, I don't. If an FTA with the EU can be done by their conceding something on the 'level playing field' and the UK giving some ground over fisheries, surely the overall benefit to the economies on both sides is worth it.

But of course it's only those pesky Eurcrats, propping up[ their sclerotic and failing cartel, that are causing an FTA to fail.

Evidence?

Are we really going to lose 50% of the GDP if we don't have an FTA signed?

[badgerx16]

5 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Evidence?

Are we really going to lose 50% of the GDP if we don't have an FTA signed?

Oh come on, you're better than this. You know full well that the 50% is the UK's trade with the EU, and that this is at risk of tariffs if an FTA is not produced. Deliberately misreading something in an attempt to score pathetic points is beneath you.

 

Leave it to Wes and me.

[ecuk268]

On 17/12/2020 at 17:17, Wes Tender said:

As the forecast is "educated" guesswork substantially, it is a nonsense to only publish what they consider to be the most probable one rather than caveating it with best case/worst case outcomes. Who decides what the most probably one is? As for the political inclination of the Treasury Civil Servants towards us remaining or leaving the EU at the time of the referendum, somebody would have to be incredibly naive not to recognise their pro-EU bias, given the sort of doom and gloom forecasts that they made; what was it? Every household would be £4200 worse off? There would be an immediate recession just if we voted to leave? Other economists dissected their methods for arriving at those forecasts and picked large holes in them, so credibility in their forecasts since is shot.

The most probable one is the one with the highest statistical significance. You still haven't produced any evidence (as opposed to supposition) that everyone in the Treasury is "remoaner to the core. Does that include the tea ladies?

[View From The Top]

On 14/12/2020 at 19:14, Weston Super Saint said:

Pretty damning indictment of the EU education system...

Or more about not wanting to disrupt our own kids schooling for our own whims.

[Wes Tender]

49 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Economically it is insignificant, politically it's where Boris has hung his balls. If it is worth throwing away any chance of a deal with the EU over that particular point of principle is a matter of opinion. Is it worth putting %50 of UK GDP in jeopardy for 0.1% ? You may think so, Wes certainly thinks so, I don't. If an FTA with the EU can be done by their conceding something on the 'level playing field' and the UK giving some ground over fisheries, surely the overall benefit to the economies on both sides is worth it.

But of course it's only those pesky Eurcrats, propping up[ their sclerotic and failing cartel, that are causing an FTA to fail.

As you say, I don't believe that we should allow the EU to dictate terms on how they should continue to have any control over our sovereign waters. As Boris says, no independent sovereign nation allows any other country to have any control over its coastal waters, and neither will we. If there is to be any access granted to our waters to EU fishermen, then that will something that we permit, not something that they demand as a price for access to their markets, in which they have a massive surplus in exports to us anyway. We were already stupid enough to agree to paying them £39 billion supposedly as a price for a FTA. They really want to take the piss, and are risking losing a FTA and having us go WTO, so that none of them will be entitled to fish in our waters. More fool them, the arrogant tossers. Throughout the four and a half year period since we voted to leave, the EU has never acted in good faith, and is trying to pull all sorts of strokes currently as the clock is close to striking midnight and they are becoming desperate.

[Wes Tender]

25 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

The most probable one is the one with the highest statistical significance. You still haven't produced any evidence (as opposed to supposition) that everyone in the Treasury is "remoaner to the core. Does that include the tea ladies?

As I said, the sort of doom and gloom forecasts they produced was evidence aplenty. Next you'll assert that the BBC isn't biased against Brexit and isn't stuffed full of remoaners either. 😄

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, View From The Top said:

Or more about not wanting to disrupt our own kids schooling for our own whims.

I get that and it's the sensible thing to do.

Doesn't mean that you 'couldn't' have relocated to Europe if you felt that strongly about the UK - like the post that I quoted, from someone who has spent the last four years constantly berating the UK and claiming the EU is so much better....

[ecuk268]

20 hours ago, Wes Tender said:

As I said, the sort of doom and gloom forecasts they produced was evidence aplenty. Next you'll assert that the BBC isn't biased against Brexit and isn't stuffed full of remoaners either. 😄

Can you provide any evidence of your assertions about the BBC apart from the right-wing press. Still haven't seen any facts that prove that everyone in the Treasury was a "remoaner"? Are you incapable of putting forward a cogent argument without the infantile names.  

[Wes Tender]

19 hours ago, ecuk268 said:

Can you provide any evidence of your assertions about the BBC apart from the right-wing press. Still haven't seen any facts that prove that everyone in the Treasury was a "remoaner"? Are you incapable of putting forward a cogent argument without the infantile names.  

There is a website itemising incidents of BBC bias against Brexit over the past few years. Google it and have a read if you're broad-minded enough to have a peek at the other side of the arguments. It shows that on various political programmes the numerical representation of panelists and interviewees and their qualifications strongly favoured the Remoaner side. I know that you'll dismiss that as being "right wing" propaganda, as you appear to be incapable of removing your pro-EU blinkers. I invite you to provide the link to the equivalent website displaying incidents of BBC bias towards Brexit.

As for the Treasury forecasting, my premise is that putting out grossly exaggerated worst case scenarios is indicative of a pro-EU Remain bias within the Treasury. Those figures have been discredited by economists as being worst case scenarios without taking into account many positive economic factors. I don't really  care a toss  whether you feel I am unable to prove  anything or not. I am perfectly content that regardless of historical arguments both ways, we are now nearing the end game with the strong possibility that we leave  with the most advantageous outcome for us as things stand, WTO terms. 

[Wes Tender]

As we near the last chance deadline, today, to agree a deal with the EU according to them, this article makes the case that WTO is a far better option than what is currently on the table from the EU side.

https://briefingsforbritain.co.uk/for-the-last-time-an-eu-trade-deal-isnt-worth-it-for-the-uk/?mc_cid=89d61f4f70&mc_eid=f2c4328bbe

[Fan The Flames]

12 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

As we near the last chance deadline, today, to agree a deal with the EU according to them, this article makes the case that WTO is a far better option than what is currently on the table from the EU side.

https://briefingsforbritain.co.uk/for-the-last-time-an-eu-trade-deal-isnt-worth-it-for-the-uk/?mc_cid=89d61f4f70&mc_eid=f2c4328bbe

Hmmmm from a Briefings for Brexit website.

[buctootim]

7 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Hmmmm from a Briefings for Brexit website.

Written by anonymous under a pen name. Compelling stuff

[Wes Tender]

1 hour ago, buctootim said:

Written by anonymous under a pen name. Compelling stuff

Feel free to appraise the article and point out any factual inaccuracies instead of bitching about the source. I suspect that the points raised within the article will be in tune with the government's decision whether to go WTO or not, as they will be aware that as it stands, the EU's stance constitutes the bad deal that no deal would be better than.

[badgerx16]

31 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

Feel free to appraise the article and point out any factual inaccuracies instead of bitching about the source. I suspect that the points raised within the article will be in tune with the government's decision whether to go WTO or not, as they will be aware that as it stands, the EU's stance constitutes the bad deal that no deal would be better than.

OK, a few minor points. Firstly, could they not find a more up to date BofE survey ? The one they reference is more than a year out of date. Secondly, their analysis is flawed; when they claim that 80% of firms are ' ready' or 'ready as they can be', what they cover up is that less than 20% actually say they are 'ready', and that proportion is actually falling month on month, as is the proportion of 'ready as they can be'. Moreover, those claiming to be 'ready as they can be', the majority of businesses, say they anticipate falls in productivity, employment, and investment in the event of a no-deal.

Edited 20 December, 2020 by badgerx16

[badgerx16]

Wes, as a counter point of view, try this from earlier this month

https://www.britishchambers.org.uk/news/2020/12/brexit-24-days-24-huge-unanswered-business-questions

Add to that the fact that in September the CBI told the Government that only 4% of their members supported no-deal, and 77% wanted a deal.

Edited 20 December, 2020 by badgerx16

[Wes Tender]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

OK, a few minor points. Firstly, could they not find a more up to date BofE survey ? The one they reference is more than a year out of date. Secondly, their analysis is flawed; when they claim that 80% of firms are ' ready' or 'ready as they can be', what they cover up is that less than 20% actually say they are 'ready', and that proportion is actually falling month on month, as is the proportion of 'ready as they can be'. Moreover, those claiming to be 'ready as they can be', the majority of businesses, say they anticipate falls in productivity, employment, and investment in the event of a no-deal.

As you say, a few minor points, not anything that substantially undermines the thrust of the argument that what is on the table currently from the EU constitutes a bad deal that makes WTO the preferred option for us. Is there a more up to date survey from the BofE? I don't know, and I'm not that bothered. Like the Treasury, they would have preferred to continue suckling on the EU teat, to leaving. Ditto your further post regarding the desires of the members of the BCC and the CBI; they mainly represent the bigger companies who trade with the EU, rather than the vast majority of small to medium companies who do not. One would have hoped that such larger organisations would be savvy enough to know what their trading bureaucracy would entail under WTO terms, although of course the variables which would come in to play under a FTA with the EU are a grey area until the basis of the agreement are known. Naturally the majority of those larger companies would have preferred a FTA to no deal. They represented the establishment vested interests favoured by the EU regime that stifled competition against them. Beyond that, most others favoured a deal, but obviously not at any price, which coincidentally is the EU position too. The difference is that the EU position's price seeks to keep us as a EU colony, whereas our position seeks to break free of their jurisdiction totally, to run our own affairs by ourselves.

Edited 20 December, 2020 by Wes Tender

[badgerx16]

If we are a "colony", or have been so, where have the colonial administration and their enforcers been hiding ? Just the usual inflammatory bollox from a one trick pony, following on from dismissing anything that goes against your mantra as showing subservience to the EU jackboot. Can you find any independent reportage, that means not briefings for Britain, Guido, or the Daily Heil, that demostrates industry is ready for no-deal, and happy with such an outcome ?

Edited 20 December, 2020 by badgerx16

[Wes Tender]

56 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

If we are a "colony", or have been so, where have the colonial administration and their enforcers been hiding ? 

Brussels, of course. Verhofstadt can clarify it for you. There was another quote I read in the past couple of days by somebody on the EU side that spoke about our "associate partnership arrangement" The enforcers are hiding in the ECJ. Do keep up. 😄 Regarding the second question, you speak as if there was only bias on the Brexit side media and that the BBC, Sky, FT, Economist, Guardian, the Not Independent, Mirror, CBI, Treasury, etc, were completely impartial. Industry has had four and a half years to prepare for the possibility of no deal and if they haven't, that reflects rather badly on them. Of course, although there will be many who will be unhappy with the new situation they face, especially those who benefitted from the protectionist cartel policies of the EU, and most will retain the majority of that trade but there will also be others who will see opportunities to be gained from it

[Wade Garrett]

If we went WTO, is there a chance of a deal in the future?

Are the EU willing to wait and see if it’s worth making a deal with us?

Are we willing to wait as well?

[Wes Tender]

45 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

If we went WTO, is there a chance of a deal in the future?

Are the EU willing to wait and see if it’s worth making a deal with us?

Are we willing to wait as well?

There is no particular reason not to resume talks with the EU post WTO, despite Gove stating that once we are out on WTO terms we will not return to negotiations with them. However, that would need to be strictly on the basis that we are a completely independent third country. We would therefore expect to receive terms commensurate with other countries with FTA deals with the EU, reflecting also that we would be their largest deal too, so expectant of receive more favourable terms than those others. Canada +++ if you like. 😄

[spyinthesky]

All these exchanges are interesting and useful.
There are two main reasons why I am concerned about Brexit.
One is as someone working in the Logistics industry, I know there are likely to significant issues with the movement of goods as well as an expected shortage of HGV drivers due to Eastern European drivers going home.
Oh and also that Rupert Lowe is a leading Brexiteer!!!!!!!!
 

[buctootim]

57 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

Oh and also that Rupert Lowe is a leading Brexiteer!!!!!!!!
 

I always roll my eyes when the guru bangs on about recruitment and economics as if he were a master of balancing the books and employing the right staff... 

[benjii]

I'm reading that the UK paid more than double the EU, per-dose of the Pfizer vaccine and, had we joined the EU's purchase scheme, we would have saved half a billion pounds.

Also, I see lots of EU countries imposing unilateral border restrictions. How can that be?! We need to leave to take back control of our borders, don't we?

[AlexLaw76]

2 hours ago, benjii said:

I'm reading that the UK paid more than double the EU, per-dose of the Pfizer vaccine and, had we joined the EU's purchase scheme, we would have saved half a billion pounds.

Also, I see lots of EU countries imposing unilateral border restrictions. How can that be?! We need to leave to take back control of our borders, don't we?

are you suggesting that money should be saved in health and in this pandemic specifically? Should the UK have waited to be part of the 'one big EU rollout'? Would people have stood-by whilst the death toll increased, just so we were all in it together?  I doubt that would have been the case.

https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/the-planning-disaster-germany-and-europe-could-fall-short-on-vaccine-supplies-a-3db4702d-ae23-4e85-85b7-20145a898abd

Quote

There are currently no authorised vaccines for COVID-19 in the European Union (EU). The European Medicines Agency (EMA)

Given the costs you mention, does that mean the NHS could be trimmed in a wider context?  You can guarantee that it is incredibly inefficient in places!

 

Unless of course, you are praising the UK Govt for getting the vaccine and rolling it out before any other nation on earth?

Edited 21 December, 2020 by AlexLaw76

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

are you suggesting that money should be saved in health and in this pandemic specifically ?

They don't need to save money, after Dec 31st, we'll have an extra £350million a week available for the NHS 😉

Edited 21 December, 2020 by badgerx16

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Unless of course, you are praising the UK Govt for getting the vaccine and rolling it out before any other nation on earth?

Yay! We beat the USA by a week. Go us ! Are you certain that no corners have been cut in reducing a development, testing, certification, and production timetable that usually takes years down to 7 months ?

[John B]

We've just spent 5 years at war with each other, devalued the £ by 20%, savaged our economy, quit the world's largest free trade zone, created a mountain of red tape & flushed £200bn down the drain to 'control our borders'. 6 EU states just did it in 24 hours with a press release

[moonraker]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55190259 based on this the leavers views on sovereignty of fishing waters seems to be at least 300 years out of date.

 

[badgerx16]

21 minutes ago, moonraker said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55190259 based on this the leavers views on sovereignty of fishing waters seems to be at least 300 years out of date.

 

If the Sovereign cannot rule on sovereignty, who can ?

[Wes Tender]

Mad Lord Adonis doesn't seem to have realised that we actually left the EU on 31st January this year. Can somebody have a quiet word in his ear and explain it to him in terms that he could understand? I wouldn't want him to discontinue twatting this sort of claptrap though, as it is hugely entertaining.

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, Wes Tender said:

Mad Lord Adonis doesn't seem to have realised that we actually left the EU on 31st January this year. Can somebody have a quiet word in his ear and explain it to him in terms that he could understand?

If you read back the last few pages of this thread, you'll find GM has a similar problem with dates and reality. Could you have a word with him ?

[John B]

10 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

Mad Lord Adonis doesn't seem to have realised that we actually left the EU on 31st January this year. Can somebody have a quiet word in his ear and explain it to him in terms that he could understand? I wouldn't want him to discontinue twatting this sort of claptrap though, as it is hugely entertaining.

As the Chinese would say wear a mask and stop talking shit

[Wes Tender]

 

1 hour ago, John B said:

We've just spent 5 years at war with each other, devalued the £ by 20%, savaged our economy, quit the world's largest free trade zone, created a mountain of red tape & flushed £200bn down the drain to 'control our borders'. 6 EU states just did it in 24 hours with a press release

Oh woe, woe, thrice woe. Corporal Fraser we're doomed link thingy. What an awful thing democracy is, eh? 

[Wes Tender]

1 minute ago, John B said:

As the Chinese would say wear a mask and stop talking shit

Good advice. I hope that Mad Lord Adonis takes it

[John B]

Just now, Wes Tender said:

 

Oh woe, woe, thrice woe. Corporal Fraser we're doomed link thingy. What an awful thing democracy is, eh? 

As I said just wear a mask and stop talking shit

[Whitey Grandad]

12 minutes ago, John B said:

As I said just wear a mask and stop talking shit

Otherwise your mask fills up with shit.

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 hours ago, John B said:

We've just spent 5 years at war with each other, devalued the £ by 20%, savaged our economy, quit the world's largest free trade zone, created a mountain of red tape & flushed £200bn down the drain to 'control our borders'. 6 EU states just did it in 24 hours with a press release

Let me go home
Why don't they let me go home
This is the worst trip I've ever been on.

[Wes Tender]

4 hours ago, John B said:

We've just spent 5 years at war with each other, devalued the £ by 20%, savaged our economy, quit the world's largest free trade zone, created a mountain of red tape & flushed £200bn down the drain to 'control our borders'. 6 EU states just did it in 24 hours with a press release

Perhaps you would kindly give us your best guess at the amount that we would have had to pay into the EU slush fund towards their Chinese Virus budget had we not left. And I just know somehow that you won't be wanting to place the value of all those recently negotiated trade deals into the credit column either.

[aintforever]

14 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

Perhaps you would kindly give us your best guess at the amount that we would have had to pay into the EU slush fund towards their Chinese Virus budget had we not left. And I just know somehow that you won't be wanting to place the value of all those recently negotiated trade deals into the credit column either.

Shouldn’t we call this new variant the English Virus?

[Verbal]

On 14/12/2020 at 08:37, Guided Missile said:

Thankfully, this thread will end on January 1st, 2021.

I think we all know what happens when you make a prediction, anti-Nostradamus. 

[buctootim]

22 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Shouldn’t we call this new variant the English Virus?

I heard it was made in a pesticide lab in Hampshire   

[buctootim]

10 days before everything changes, what replaces the current system hasnt been decided. Forgetting all the arguments about Brexit itself, most people would agree the process of leaving has been a shambles.  The hold up is fisheries 

EU boats catch c£500m worth of fish in UK waters a year. British boats catch c£750m. The EU have offered a 25% reduction to £375m, Johnson wants 60% to £200m.  

A deal on £675bn worth of trade is being held up by differences on £175m worth of fish - which is bizarre in itself. The real irony though is that if EU catches were cut by 60% the English fleet wouldnt have the capacity or equipment to take advantage because the large majority of that catch is caught by purse seiners in the channel, western approaches and southern North sea whereas the vast majority of English fishing boats are small day vessels of under 12m. Totally different boats, size and gear. Different capacity to remain at sea and to keep fish fresh. It would take five years to organise a government policy, develop a grant scheme, train fishermen and build boats. 

So the trade deal is being held up by a semantic argument about something tiny with no real world impact for at least five years. Good to know.           

 

Edited 21 December, 2020 by buctootim

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, buctootim said:

10 days before everything changes, what replaces the current system hasnt been decided. Forgetting all the arguments about Brexit itself, most people would agree the process of leaving has been a shambles.  The hold up is fisheries 

EU boats catch c£500m worth of fish in UK waters a year. British boats catch c£750m. The EU have offered a 25% reduction to £375m, Johnson wants 60% to £200m.  

A deal on £675bn worth of trade is being held up by differences on £175m worth of fish - which is bizarre in itself. The real irony though is that if EU catches were cut by 60% the English fleet wouldnt have the capacity or equipment to take advantage because the large majority of that catch is caught by purse seiners in the channel, western approaches and southern North sea whereas the vast majority of English fishing boats are small day vessels of under 12m. Totally different boats, size and gear. Different capacity to remain at sea and to keep fish fresh. It would take five years to organise a government policy, develop a grant scheme, train fishermen and build boats. 

So the trade deal is being held up by a semantic argument about something tiny with no real world impact for at least five years. Good to know.           

 

But sovereignty over our own waters trumps everything. Facts aren't relevant to the conversation. Just dig out your Union Flag boxer shorts and get ready to stand out in your front garden at 00:01 on the first day of our freedom from the EUSSR's colonial domination, and join in with the communal chorus of Rule Britannia, followed by 5 minutes of clapping ourselves for our achievement. After all, with our fleet of 8 Fisheries Protection vessels we most certainly will "rule the waves". ( Unfortunately, those British fishermen who can no longer fish in EU waters, and are not able to fish in UK waters, as you have detailed, will be ouf of work, but hey - we stuck it to those pesky foreigners ).

Edited 21 December, 2020 by badgerx16

[ecuk268]

2 hours ago, buctootim said:

10 days before everything changes, what replaces the current system hasnt been decided. Forgetting all the arguments about Brexit itself, most people would agree the process of leaving has been a shambles.  The hold up is fisheries 

EU boats catch c£500m worth of fish in UK waters a year. British boats catch c£750m. The EU have offered a 25% reduction to £375m, Johnson wants 60% to £200m.  

A deal on £675bn worth of trade is being held up by differences on £175m worth of fish - which is bizarre in itself. The real irony though is that if EU catches were cut by 60% the English fleet wouldnt have the capacity or equipment to take advantage because the large majority of that catch is caught by purse seiners in the channel, western approaches and southern North sea whereas the vast majority of English fishing boats are small day vessels of under 12m. Totally different boats, size and gear. Different capacity to remain at sea and to keep fish fresh. It would take five years to organise a government policy, develop a grant scheme, train fishermen and build boats. 

So the trade deal is being held up by a semantic argument about something tiny with no real world impact for at least five years. Good to know.           

 

Don't forget the need to control our borders:

https://newsthump.com/2020/12/21/brexiters-left-stunned-after-several-eu-countries-demonstrate-easy-control-of-their-own-borders/

[badgerx16]

A view from the USA, or 'fake news' from CNN ?

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/21/uk/boris-johnson-covid-analysis-intl-gbr/index.html

Boris Johnson has led Britain into an abyss of overlapping crises at the worst possible time

 

"Boris Johnson is living through the most politically difficult days of his life since becoming Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. With just 10 days until the end of a tumultuous year, Johnson is mired in colliding crises, some of which are entirely of his own creation. "

 

[Wes Tender]

I can see that it is getting very tense on the remoaner side of the forum, as another deadline passes without progress, this time an EU set deadline. In a vain effort to panic the UK into a rushed deal which they hoped would be pushed through Parliament without proper scrutiny of the hundreds of pages of small print legalese, the EU stated that unless a decision was reached by Sunday evening, there would not be enough time for the EU side to agree it. The arrogant tosser, Macron, told his French colleague Barnier to stand firm and surely the UK would buckle to their demands. Barnier didn't stand firm and offered an additional 7% of our own fish back to us, so we would now be allowed an additional 25% of our own resource from our own waters. We gave them the ancient signal from Agincourt, the one that indicated that our long bowmen had both fingers to pull the string taught. That resulted in Macron and the French fishermen, among others, to castigate Barnier for giving away too much of what they considered to be their rightful property historically, even going back 300 years to some obscure promise made to the Belgians in perpetuity by Charles the Second because he had been royally rogered by their floosies during Cromwell's rule. If the EU are so fond of going back 300 years to a right given in perpetuity, then perhaps we should go back a further 300 years to our ownership of Calais given to us in perpetuity by the French.

Anyway, despite the months of jawing, apparently 98% of the way to a trade deal that won't be as good as that given to several other Countries, even though their trade with us is considerably greater, as the size of trade pales into significance measured against our proximity to them. If only there were a few thousand miles between us.  The other factor apart from proximity that rules their minds, is the desire to punish us for wanting to leave their protectionist cartel and make our own way in the big wide World. The extra couple of percent holding up the deal are the three things that have been the stumbling blocks from the very first day of the talks; the so-called level playing field, governance of the deal and fisheries. Naturally the resident remoaners cannot understand why the miniscule economic value of fisheries could possibly hold up a large trade deal, but then they never understood the reasons for the vote to leave in the first place, so no change there. It isn't fisheries on its own, although no other independent nation allows its own territorial waters to be controlled by another nation. It is fisheries, combined with the other two things, that we should be allowed to set our own investment policy and rules for our industries, and that those rules and state investment policies should not be subject to the jurisdiction of the courts of a third country/Union.

The latest ruse by the French, is to blockade their ports under the pretence that it is a precaution against the spread of our new UK variant of the Chinese virus, when in  reality, the hope is that the resulting chaos caused will be a foretaste of the chaos caused by militant French fishermen illegally blockading the Channel ports. It hasn't penetrated the French fishing community that WTO terms mean that they will lose all rights to fish our waters, and that the large trade surplus they have in exporting their produce to us will mean that they will be hurting themselves to spite us, risking us importing those products from elsewhere more cheaply.

As the EU was fond of telling us, the clock is ticking, but their usual policy of letting it run down to the last minute and expecting the other party to panic into surrender to their terms is showing no signs of working. As I say, it appears that they have committed a gross error of judgement.  A further error would be a cunning plan expecting us to come crawling back to them begging for a deal a few months after we have left on WTO terms. If anybody will be begging for a deal, it will be them, on our terms.

[badgerx16]

Well done Wes, at least your appreciation of history is more accurate than GM's, ( although you still seem to be getting a hard-on for the WTO ). But why stop at our ownership of Calais ? Go back to before Jean d'Arc strutted her stuff, and we ruled almost all of what was than deemed to be France. Add that to our German Royal Family's ancestral lands and you can end up asking why those pesky continentals won't just bow down in subservience to their true masters ?

Edited 21 December, 2020 by badgerx16

[ecuk268]

3 hours ago, Wes Tender said:

 

The latest ruse by the French, is to blockade their ports under the pretence that it is a precaution against the spread of our new UK variant of the Chinese virus, when in  reality, the hope is that the resulting chaos caused will be a foretaste of the chaos caused by militant French fishermen illegally blockading the Channel ports. It hasn't penetrated the French fishing community that WTO terms mean that they will lose all rights to fish our waters, and that the large trade surplus they have in exporting their produce to us will mean that they will be hurting themselves to spite us, risking us importing those products from elsewhere more cheaply.

 

There is no trade surplus of fish with France. We import very small quantities from France but export a considerable amount ( as there is no market for a lot of it in the UK).

If that market is closed off or hit by tariffs, it'll be UK fishermen who will lose out.

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, ecuk268 said:

There is no trade surplus of fish with France. We import very small quantities from France but export a considerable amount ( as there is no market for a lot of it in the UK).

If that market is closed off or hit by tariffs, it'll be UK fishermen who will lose out.

Indeed, France is our main export destination for fish, taking about 20% of our total exports. It isn't in the top 15 sources of fish imports.

In terms of overall trade, our balance of trade with France is about even - there is a slight UK trade deficit of about £400million on a total trade of £81billion.

 

But again, statistics don't matter to Wes.

Edited 22 December, 2020 by badgerx16

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