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Guided Missile

By Guided Missile,
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Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum  

217 members have voted

  1. 1. Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum

    • Leave Before - Leave Now
      46
    • Leave Before - Remain Now
      10
    • Leave Before - Not Bothered Now
      2
    • Remain Before - Remain Now
      127
    • Remain Before - Leave Now
      7
    • Remain Before - Not Bothered Now
      1
    • Not Bothered Before - Leave Now
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    • Not Bothered Before - Remain Now
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    • I've never been bothered - Why am I on this Thread?
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    • No second Ref - 2016 was Definitive and Binding
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Hockey_saint

Hockey_saint

Posted
Posted
Currency wasn't ranking the then week and you didn't mention much about it then. It won't be tanking in a few weeks time

 

The exchange rates have been god awful since the referendum...

 

Either way, I like how the Germans are growing tired of this also and toughening their stance.... https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/05/angela-merkel-takes-significantly-tougher-brexit-stance

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Hockey_saint

Hockey_saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
It's happening mate. Suggest you suck it up

And quoting the guardian does not really qualify anything

 

Nor does quoting the Daily Mail...This isn't a game you really should stop describing it as such. It's going to effect a lot of people's lives...mostly for the worse so if you don't mind, treat it a bit more seriously.

 

CNBC alright for you though? http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/11/germanys-merkel-takes-tough-line-on-brexit-the-decision-has-been-made.html

 

Wouldn't want to offend your right wing sensibilities with anything of the left...ohhh equality...oh no sir.

Edited by Hockey_saint
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Batman

Batman

Posted
Posted
Nor does quoting the Daily Mail...This isn't a game you really should stop describing it as such. It's going to effect a lot of people's lives...mostly for the worse so if you don't mind, treat it a bit more seriously.

When was the last time I did that

 

It's happening mate. Suggest you suck it up rather than dripping about it. The EU is screwed anyway. An absolute mess in so many areas. We won't be the last nation out

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aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted
It was factually incorrect by a very big margin and deliberately misleading. Some people will have believed it and I have even seen this figure repeated on here by some.

 

Just like some people would believed all the crap spouted by the remainers - that's politics. Both sides had more than enough time and opportunity to refute each other's claims.

 

Problem is the remain camp avoided the subject of how much we paid to Europe like the plague - because they didn't want the public to know.

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Hockey_saint

Hockey_saint

Posted
Posted
When was the last time I did that

 

It's happening mate. Suggest you suck it up rather than dripping about it. The EU is screwed anyway. An absolute mess in so many areas. We won't be the last nation out

 

No we won't but I rather like what we've created since we kicked out the tories after the war and you know, would prefer it wasn't all destroyed because lots of older folk don't like foreigners.

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aintforever

aintforever

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Posted
No we won't but I rather like what we've created since we kicked out the tories after the war and you know, would prefer it wasn't all destroyed because lots of older folk don't like foreigners.

 

The thing is, if some lonely old sod voted leave because he's fed up with his neighbours all speaking a different language that's just as valid a reason as you voting remain because you want to spend more on holiday.

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Hockey_saint

Hockey_saint

Posted
Posted
The thing is, if some lonely old sod voted leave because he's fed up with his neighbours all speaking a different language that's just as valid a reason as you voting remain because you want to spend more on holiday.

 

Does it justify him removing the neighbourhood kid's right to live and work freely throughout Europe though?

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aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted
No matter if it severly inhibits the potential of those who haven't had the life you have had? Some people would consider that quite selfish.

 

I think most people vote for selfish reasons to be honest. Anyway you could argue that staying in the EU limits the opportunities of the young to own their own home or for unskilled young to earn a decent wage.

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Hockey_saint

Hockey_saint

Posted
Posted
I think most people vote for selfish reasons to be honest. Anyway you could argue that staying in the EU limits the opportunities of the young to own their own home or for unskilled young to earn a decent wage.

 

You could. But in this world, surely that's kinda backtracking....We live in an age where we should be able to work and travel anywhere? As I say above, the EU isn't perfect, maybe not even nice, but it does give us some of that chance...I'd personally like to be able to work and move, live and do whatever I like anywhere on the globe, but we're not there yet so i see just this continent as a reasonable settlement for now. But I agree, that's a major flaw as far as the EU goes, it should be a union where economies are similar so that poorer economies do not move en masse to richer locations but sadly, we don't live in a perfect world.

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Batman

Batman

Posted
Posted
You could. But in this world, surely that's kinda backtracking....We live in an age where we should be able to work and travel anywhere? As I say above, the EU isn't perfect, maybe not even nice, but it does give us some of that chance...I'd personally like to be able to work and move, live and do whatever I like anywhere on the globe, but we're not there yet so i see just this continent as a reasonable settlement for now. But I agree, that's a major flaw as far as the EU goes, it should be a union where economies are similar so that poorer economies do not move en masse to richer locations but sadly, we don't live in a perfect world.

You probably will be able to work and travel where you want. What's the issue?

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Hockey_saint

Hockey_saint

Posted
Posted
You probably will be able to work and travel where you want. What's the issue?

 

Not without extensive documentation, visas and incredibly high medical insurance costs...But what right have you to take that right to do so throughout Europe away from anyone?

 

I mean, I would spoil it by suggesting that most that voted leave will never exercise that right but it's shameful that they feel they can take it away from those that can...You know, the ones who like living and working with foreigners.

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Sour Mash

Sour Mash

Posted
Posted
You probably will be able to work and travel where you want. What's the issue?
Most Brits that go to work in Europe are highly skilled, specialists that won't have a problem continuing to work abroad.

 

Plus plenty go to Australia, Singapore, USA, New Zealand without any problems currently.

 

As stated before the EU is in a mess and probably won't survive anyway.

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Hockey_saint

Hockey_saint

Posted
Posted
Most Brits that go to work in Europe are highly skilled, specialists that won't have a problem continuing to work abroad.

 

Plus plenty go to Australia, Singapore, USA, New Zealand without any problems currently.

 

As stated before the EU is in a mess and probably won't survive anyway.

 

So if you're unskilled, you shouldnt be allowed to work in Europe then?

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Winnersaint

Winnersaint

Posted
Posted
Now we just need a JC lead government so this "bonanza" actually benefits the poorest, especially seeing as a large % of them voted for Brexit.

 

Would it be uncharitable as a disgruntled Remainer to hope that Toyota pull out of Derby and Nissan out of Sunderland to really shaft the employment situation in those areas. Just like turkeys voting for Xmas. ****wits!

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Sour Mash

Sour Mash

Posted
Posted
Would it be uncharitable as a disgruntled Remainer to hope that Toyota pull out of Derby and Nissan out of Sunderland to really shaft the employment situation in those areas. Just like turkeys voting for Xmas. ****wits!

 

Sad that so many remainers are desperate to see Britain fail without the help of the EU. Pretty weird too.

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted
The conservatives took us into Europe and ever since, the sinister, bitter, little Englander side of the party have been trying to drag us out again. Nuts.

 

 

I see that you're still digging, to no avail. You come up with some wonderful bits of nonsense, like the sentence above. Heath didn't take us into "Europe", he took us into the Common Market. Over time after the initial Wilson referendum, it changed treaty by treaty from the entity we joined into something entirely different, the EU, without once seeking the further consent of the electorate. This is the simple reason that there was a growing resentment of the EU and against the political classes in the UK.

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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted (edited)
The EU has also decimated many of our industries, but you probably hadn't noticed.

 

You're right Wes, I hadn't noticed. Which ones have they decimated?

 

 

I asked the question knowing full well that you would provide a cretinous response which demonstrated not just your lack of knowledge but a fundamental lack of comprehension. Your 'proof' to justify your claim the EU has decimated UK industry is to cite a reader's letter to the York Press (circulation 25,000) and an obscure blogger who doesn't publish any information about himself. You get more and more bizarre and out there. Do you seriously not know the difference between uninformed opinion and empirical statistics / facts?

 

1. The EU bank lent $80m to Chinese companies to reduce their GHG emissions, an action which would increase Chinese steel producers costs and reduce their competitive edge over Britain's makers. Why is that a bad thing? The same year they also lent £6bn - some 70 times more - to Britain for industrial investment. Is that bad too?

2. In 1973 when we joined the UK had the second largest fishing fleet after Spain and the second largest waters. We still do. The proportion of the EU catch landed by Britain's fleet has been increasing for at least 15 years not decreasing. If there were any truth in the pathetic hoary old crap trotted out by head banging right wingers at every opportunity then the catch in the EU controlled waters (over 12 miles out) would have performed worse than the UK controlled inshore waters (up to 12 miles) where only UK boats are allowed to fish. They haven't. The EU has managed British waters better than the British government has and stocks / catches are rising .

3. Looking to John Redwood for facts was always going to be a fools errand, aptly enough. He blames the EU for Britains loss of manufacturing since 1973 - ignoring the rise of the pacific rim countries, especially China. Like you he hasnt got any facts either.

Edited by buctootim
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Johnny Bognor

Johnny Bognor

Posted
Posted
I see that you're still digging, to no avail. You come up with some wonderful bits of nonsense, like the sentence above. Heath didn't take us into "Europe", he took us into the Common Market. Over time after the initial Wilson referendum, it changed treaty by treaty from the entity we joined into something entirely different, the EU, without once seeking the further consent of the electorate. This is the simple reason that there was a growing resentment of the EU and against the political classes in the UK.

 

Indeed, even the French and the Dutch had a referendum, where the EU Constitution was soundly rejected... ultimately, they were consequently ignored, as the changing of the word "constitution" to "treaty" negated the need for a further referendum and the legislation went through the back door. This for me is the worst abuse of power and ignoring the will of the people in this whole EU debacle. Only seconded by the Irish rejection of the referendum, only to hold another two years later with a few word changes and millions of euros spent on promoting a yes vote.

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted

Timmy, you never disappoint in your responses. As usual, your MO is to sneer at the source of the article rather than to argue the toss over what it says. So you are dismissive of a letter by an individual, but Verbal thinks that his one is worthy of consideration. Will you dismiss it because it is the opinion of an individual? Likewise of course, your posts are just that too, your opinion. With you, it isn't what is said that is important, it is who says it. Therefore John Redwood's opinions can be dismissed with a shrug, all of them. You don't debate them, just rubbish them out of hand.

 

There were several articles discussing the adverse affect on our Steel Industry because the EU Investment Bank had made cheap interest loans to the Chinese Steel industry and indeed many others itemising cases where the European Investment Bank had made loans to companies in other countries, both inside and outside the EU, the outcome being that British companies closed or suffered badly from the consequences. The Ford Transit manufacturing in Southampton was of course something affecting jobs in Southampton directly and the York newspaper article was merely a random example of another City where several local industries or companies were closed because of the EU. It doesn't take much digging to find dozens of other anecdotal examples like those. But of course you must accept yourself that some industries and companies have been adversely affected by EU policy, otherwise that would mean that you are blinkered and lacking objectivity.

 

I realise that the EU Common Fisheries Policy is an area where you have some expertise because of your job, whatever that was. However, that does not mean that your opinions (for that is what they surely are) cannot be challenged. There are two sides to every argument, I presume the pertinent ones on the anti side being these:-

 

http://www.debatingeurope.eu/focus/arguments-for-and-against-the-common-fisheries-policy/#.V_YaUezdDiw

 

Of course, I don't know enough about the ins and outs of it to be sure of my facts, but just looking at the points you make, I see no logical reason whatsoever why the catch from outside the 12 mile limit should not have been better than that from the inshore waters. It seems sensible to assume that despite the increased number of fishing boats which will be in the waters further offshore, the quantity of fish would be greatly increased in open waters, wouldn't it? The proportion of EU catch landed by Britain's fleet has been increasing for the past 15 years? No doubt you can back that up, but how do the figures stack up over a period of forty years or so, when the CFP was begun? And why is it that just three companies have control of 61% of the England and Wales fishing quota, nearly a quarter of which belongs to that most British sounding of companies, Cornelis Vroljk?

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moonraker

moonraker

Posted
Posted
Indeed, even the French and the Dutch had a referendum, where the EU Constitution was soundly rejected... ultimately, they were consequently ignored, as the changing of the word "constitution" to "treaty" negated the need for a further referendum and the legislation went through the back door. This for me is the worst abuse of power and ignoring the will of the people in this whole EU debacle. Only seconded by the Irish rejection of the referendum, only to hold another two years later with a few word changes and millions of euros spent on promoting a yes vote.

 

So all these rejections of “the will of the people” have resulted in what? Certainly not a game changing lurch to the right or civil disturbance in the countries mentioned, which is what the numptees on here are predicting would happen if the Government did not carry out “the will of the people”. We elect Governments to make policy based on facts and credible evidence, and to test their policies in our sovereign Parliament. As the referendum was based on myth, lies and tabloid press sensationalism, setting it aside could be easily justified by a governing party that puts the country first is not one obsessed by its internal squabbling. Referendums are a flawed and duplicitous mechanism, they are neither democratic nor defining, just divisive.

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moonraker

moonraker

Posted
Posted
that most British sounding of companies, Cornelis Vroljk?

 

Wes you were doing quite well until this classic. It seems you haven’t realised in 2016, we live in a Globalised World, some might interpret your statement as a tad xenophobic. By the way they are a Dutch company founded over 130 years ago.

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solentstars

solentstars

Posted
Posted
So all these rejections of “the will of the people” have resulted in what? Certainly not a game changing lurch to the right or civil disturbance in the countries mentioned, which is what the numptees on here are predicting would happen if the Government did not carry out “the will of the people”. We elect Governments to make policy based on facts and credible evidence, and to test their policies in our sovereign Parliament. As the referendum was based on myth, lies and tabloid press sensationalism, setting it aside could be easily justified by a governing party that puts the country first is not one obsessed by its internal squabbling. Referendums are a flawed and duplicitous mechanism, they are neither democratic nor defining, just divisive.

Agree I laugh how they blame everyone but there own elected government's, its has Parliament has no power has the EU makes all the rules but in reality we share sovereignty on areas which benefit us.still we live in a age where fantasy is the new norm and have idiots running brexit like liam fox the guy who was on the take with his mate when he ran defence and did not give two hoots about British interests has long he is lining his pocket and Boris Johnston a figure of fun around the world as foreign secretary. The lunatics have finally taken over the asylum. Hopefully our new prime minister has given them enough rope to hang their selves has it becomes clear the EU hold most of the cards and the usa lays it on the line what they want from us.

 

Sent from my Be Touch 3 using Tapatalk

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Johnny Bognor

Johnny Bognor

Posted
Posted (edited)
So all these rejections of “the will of the people” have resulted in what? Certainly not a game changing lurch to the right or civil disturbance in the countries mentioned, which is what the numptees on here are predicting would happen if the Government did not carry out “the will of the people”. We elect Governments to make policy based on facts and credible evidence, and to test their policies in our sovereign Parliament. As the referendum was based on myth, lies and tabloid press sensationalism, setting it aside could be easily justified by a governing party that puts the country first is not one obsessed by its internal squabbling. Referendums are a flawed and duplicitous mechanism, they are neither democratic nor defining, just divisive.

 

Hannan in 2008 summed it up quite well...

 

"This is becoming like the closing scenes of Terminator. However many times you kill the European Constitution, it keeps lurching to its feet again. Blam! Fifty-five per cent of French voters say "Non". Zap! Sixty-two per cent of Dutch voters say "Nee".

 

 

But the automaton keeps advancing, its flesh burned away, its charred metal skeleton stamped with the words "Lisbon Treaty". Then – pow! – 53 per cent of Irish voters vote "No". The machine is briefly swallowed by orange flames. Then, after a short lull, the red lights go on in its skull and, once again, it starts clawing its way forward.

 

 

Shortly before Ireland voted, the president of the European Commission, José Manuel Durrão Barroso, warned electors that there was no Plan B. Irish commentators innocently took this to mean that, if the treaty was rejected, it would be dropped. What Barroso in fact meant, as is now clear, is that Plan A would be resubmitted over and over again.

 

 

This is how EU leaders invariably behave after a "No" vote. They machine-gun out a couple of platitudes about listening to the people, then carry on regardless. For them, public opinion is an obstacle to tear aside, not a reason to change direction.

 

What is clear it that the UK, French and Dutch rejected it, when they were given the chance. The Irish rejected it initially, only to try try again until the right answer was found. Only Spain and Luxembourg held referendums that were in favour of it. Hardly a ringing endorsement is it...

 

The EU didn't want us to have a referendum, because they were fearful of the result. They were right to be. But if the EU is so confident of the good they do and the benefits they bring, why were they so fearful? Why don't they suggest that all countries should have a referendum? I think we all know the answer...

Edited by Johnny Bognor
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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted
Wes you were doing quite well until this classic. It seems you haven’t realised in 2016, we live in a Globalised World, some might interpret your statement as a tad xenophobic. By the way they are a Dutch company founded over 130 years ago.

 

Of course they are a Dutch company, I could tell that just from the name. Here's some more about them.

 

http://britishseafishing.co.uk/cornelis-vrolijk/

 

Perhaps when you've read it, you'll justify how it is fair that a Dutch company has so much of our fisheries quota and are then allowed to land that catch in Holland, presumably to then sell a lot of it back to us. In the meantime, this little Englander feels a great deal of sympathy for the fishing communities all around our coastline that have been devastated by the EU's CFP. Perhaps you ought to visit these communities and explain to them that they really ought to live in the real world and accept that we now live in a globalised World and that they shouldn't therefore be resentful of having their livelihoods taken away by fishermen from other countries, as that is xenophobic.

 

No doubt our forum fisheries expert will soon explain how that website is talking bunkum and that it is all lies, or justifiable in some way.

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Verbal

Verbal

Posted
Posted

Chuka Ummuna asked Amber Rudd about a month ago how many EU citizens were employed by the Home Office and its agencies and departmental public bodies.

 

The Answer?

 

"The Home Office undertakes checks to confirm that potential candidates meet eligibility requirement to work in the UK. However, the Home Office does not record the nationality of employees on our IT systems and is unable to provide this information."

 

Right. So it'll only be the private sector then who'll have to out their non-UK citizens. But as a policy it all makes sense of course:

 

"It is very important that companies declare how much of their workforce is foreign because they're just domiciled in this state simply as earners of their livelihood...You have to draw a sharp distinction between those who are members of the nation and those who are just domiciled here as earners of their livelihoods."

 

Which by the way is from Mein Kampf, chapter 2.

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Hockey_saint

Hockey_saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
**** me, all the loons are out tonight

 

Well obviously so was the tory scum, your son lives abroad so you'll just be ruinging the lives of the rest of the nations kids but then you're a typical right wing football supporter so you'd not give a rats behind. What a bunch of utterly contemtable scumbags.

 

absolutely dreadful people. No shame, no compassion just in it for themselves "I'm ok, I've got a pension! I hate these foreign johnny types!!"

Edited by Hockey_saint
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Guided Missile

Guided Missile

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  • Author
Posted
Well, your son lives abroad so you'll just be ruinging the lives of the rest of the nations kids but then you're a typical right wing football supporter so you'd not give a rats behind. What a bunch of utterly contemtable scumbags.

It's quite apparent that the only thing holding you back from getting a decent job anywhere in the world, is your attitude and education (as demonstrated by your spelling and grammar). Try working harder at school, college, university, night school (delete where appropriate) and stop blaming other people for your situation. It is not the voters, the government or the other posters on this site, that makes it hard for you and other young people to get a job in the world. It is the lack of marketable skills or talents and a bad attitude.

 

When you realise that, you may start being more successful in life and stop boring everyone on here, on who's to blame for you being a loser. Oh, and if you think the EU is a better place to get a job than the UK, talk to anyone under the age of 30 in Spain, Italy, Greece or Portugal.

 

The above post is known as tough love.

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ecuk268

ecuk268

Posted
Posted
UKIP in turmoil despite winning the referendum. Hope Stephen Wolfe is OK.

 

The Tories and Labour both have their rival factions but they don't go around thumping each other.

 

According to Sky News, it was a single punch and he hit his head on metal bar and collapsed 30 minutes later.

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Johnny Bognor

Johnny Bognor

Posted
Posted (edited)

absolutely dreadful people. No shame, no compassion just in it for themselves "I'm ok, I've got a pension! I hate these foreign johnny types!!"

 

Errrrrr you'll probably find that as many people voted to leave for their children, as did remain. Plenty of lefties voted leave, so does this mean being a leftie is to be selfish and only think of oneself?

 

Just look at how the Euro has destroyed the lives of millions of young people, with eye watering levels of youth unemployment. But hey, if you want to be part of that club, then you have to accept some responsibility for it.

Edited by Johnny Bognor
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Sour Mash

Sour Mash

Posted
Posted
Well obviously so was the tory scum, your son lives abroad so you'll just be ruinging the lives of the rest of the nations kids but then you're a typical right wing football supporter so you'd not give a rats behind. What a bunch of utterly contemtable scumbags.

 

absolutely dreadful people. No shame, no compassion just in it for themselves "I'm ok, I've got a pension! I hate these foreign johnny types!!"

Why do you dislike football /football fans so much, yet post on a football website?
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ecuk268

ecuk268

Posted
Posted
its how our system works. we never vote for the leader (unless he/she is your local MP)

but you know that

 

I never said that we did.

 

A previous poster said that May was elected (as a leader) by her party. She wasn't, the party members had no opportunity to vote.

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