Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Wes Tender]

2 minutes ago, John B said:

The current shit show

 

We are about to obliterate our trading model, make enemies of our neighbours  become an isolated laughing stock, make our country weaker, more vulnerable & massively poorer because on one single day, almost 5 years ago, with a difference of just 3.8% people voted for proven lies.

Waah, waah, waah. It is all so unfair. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7NlFWh7Sz8

[John B]

4 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

British yes, English yes, Lancastrian yes, Hampshire born yes, Sotonian yes, Old Edwardian yes, Leaver never. 😉

European yes British yes, English yes,  Hampshire born yes, Sotonian yes, Old Simmarian  yes, Leaver never.

[badgerx16]

18 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

Waah, waah, waah. It is all so unfair. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7NlFWh7Sz8

So which are you, Cpl Jones or Pvt Godfrey ?

[trousers]

As someone who's Brexit agnostic, my observation on the Brexit debate is thus:

- Remainers like moaning about Brexiteers

- Brexiteers like it when Remainers moan about them

Win win?

Edited 12 December, 2020 by trousers

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Wes Tender said:

To be fair to aintforever, this might well be true based on his posts as I recall them around the time of the Referendum and for a while afterwards. Of course, he has changed into a fully-blown remoaner since, for some reason. 

Because I have seen the lies for what they were and seen what a shit-show it has become. I got the leave argument about downward pressure on wages and overstretched public services and brought the bullshit about German car makers banging on Mercle’s door. But it turns out that the EU is more robust than I thought it was and their companies, governments and people are more concerned about keeping the free market intact than trading with us - that’s the key difference now. Also the fact that Brexit will probably be the beginning of the end of the UK - I never thought about how the split in the vote would enhance the divisions between England and the rest of the UK. I think an independent Scotland is probably now an inevitability and maybe even a United Ireland.

I didn’t end up voting for a number of reasons, mainly because I was on a deadline and stuck at work until late and had to get back to see my 2 year old but also because whilst I was leave leaning I wasn’t overly bothered either way. Plus, me and the Mrs always walk down and vote together and as she was going to vote remain we would have cancelled each other out and made the whole exercise pointless. 

Edited 12 December, 2020 by aintforever

[Wes Tender]

49 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Because I have seen the lies for what they were and seen what a shit-show it has become. I got the leave argument about downward pressure on wages and overstretched public services and brought the bullshit about German car makers banging on Mercle’s door. But it turns out that the EU is more robust than I thought it was and their companies, governments and people are more concerned about keeping the free market intact than trading with us - that’s the key difference now. Also the fact that Brexit will probably be the beginning of the end of the UK - I never thought about how the split in the vote would enhance the divisions between England and the rest of the UK. I think an independent Scotland is probably now an inevitability and maybe even a United Ireland.

I didn’t end up voting for a number of reasons, mainly because I was on a deadline and stuck at work until late and had to get back to see my 2 year old but also because whilst I was leave leaning I wasn’t overly bothered either way. Plus, me and the Mrs always walk down and vote together and as she was going to vote remain we would have cancelled each other out and made the whole exercise pointless. 

I respect your right to your opinions both before the vote and after. However, whereas you say that your current position has been influenced by what you perceive to have been lies told by the leave campaign, you choose to overlook all the lies that were told by the remain side and project fear. Your choice. It shouldn't have come as any surprise to you at all that the EU would be robust in trying to keep their single market intact and attempting to keep us a vassal state part of it. That was obvious right from the very start, from the 24th June 2016. You also appear to believe that the SNP would not have kept on about gaining their independence from our union to the same degree (where they have Parliamentary representation and also their own assembly) They are perversely happy to leave one union in order to stay in another. I think that an independent Scotland is increasingly less likely if there is no trade deal, as the Scots will have to pay too high a price to rejoin, giving up their fishery waters, joining the Eurozone and Schengen, having to run their own economy and raise their own taxes, with the additional possibility of Shetland and the Orkneys leaving them and taking what is left of their oil and gas resources with them, (those resources being of rapidly declining value anyway due to their lack of green credentials). As for Ireland, they have massively shot themselves in the foot allowing themselves to be used as a weapon against the UK by the EU, and now they are shitting themselves over the effect that no deal will have on their economy and the tariffs that will be placed on their exports to us. They have also been caned by the EU in their Covid budget, paying I believe the highest per capita contribution of any member state, I believe. I can foresee the Irish leaving the EU, forming a mutually beneficial trade deal with the UK that does away with any border with goods between NI/UK and them. They can then join any future trade deal along CANZUK lines.

The fact that you didn't vote either way didn't affect the result, so nothing to worry about.

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, Wes Tender said:

With a supreme effort of memory, you might recall that in an act of gross duplicity, she shafted them all by going behind their backs and formulating with that useless Robbins the sellout to the EU that was the Chequers agreement. Davis and Boris both resigned and this Chequers surrender Bill was rejected three times in the House.

I don't need much of a memory to recall that time when the current true blue brexiteer patriots capitulated to the demand that we put a permanent border down the Irish Sea, deal or no-deal.

Sell-out Theresa May said she would never sign up to that, of course.

[Wes Tender]

1 minute ago, CB Fry said:

I don't need much of a memory to recall that time when the current true blue brexiteer patriots capitulated to the demand that we put a permanent border down the Irish Sea, deal or no-deal.

Sell-out Theresa May said she would never sign up to that, of course.

You brought up Fox, Davis and Boris and don't seem to like it that Davis and Boris resigned because they were shafted by May . It isn't a good idea to bring up May or Robbins as some sort of shining example of how to go about doing a trade deal with the EU. Robbins would have found it hard to negotiate a contract for the supply of Civil Service pencils and together they would find it hard making a profit from running a whelk stall. May, the worst PM in modern British political history.

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Wes Tender said:

I respect your right to your opinions both before the vote and after. However, whereas you say that your current position has been influenced by what you perceive to have been lies told by the leave campaign, you choose to overlook all the lies that were told by the remain side and project fear. Your choice. It shouldn't have come as any surprise to you at all that the EU would be robust in trying to keep their single market intact and attempting to keep us a vassal state part of it. That was obvious right from the very start, from the 24th June 2016. You also appear to believe that the SNP would not have kept on about gaining their independence from our union to the same degree (where they have Parliamentary representation and also their own assembly) They are perversely happy to leave one union in order to stay in another. I think that an independent Scotland is increasingly less likely if there is no trade deal, as the Scots will have to pay too high a price to rejoin, giving up their fishery waters, joining the Eurozone and Schengen, having to run their own economy and raise their own taxes, with the additional possibility of Shetland and the Orkneys leaving them and taking what is left of their oil and gas resources with them, (those resources being of rapidly declining value anyway due to their lack of green credentials). As for Ireland, they have massively shot themselves in the foot allowing themselves to be used as a weapon against the UK by the EU, and now they are shitting themselves over the effect that no deal will have on their economy and the tariffs that will be placed on their exports to us. They have also been caned by the EU in their Covid budget, paying I believe the highest per capita contribution of any member state, I believe. I can foresee the Irish leaving the EU, forming a mutually beneficial trade deal with the UK that does away with any border with goods between NI/UK and them. They can then join any future trade deal along CANZUK lines.

The fact that you didn't vote either way didn't affect the result, so nothing to worry about.

Who has the better prediction record, you or GM ?

[Wes Tender]

9 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Who has the better prediction record, you or GM ?

Which predictions that I have made have not come to pass?

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, Wes Tender said:

You brought up Fox, Davis and Boris and don't seem to like it that Davis and Boris resigned because they were shafted by May . It isn't a good idea to bring up May or Robbins as some sort of shining example of how to go about doing a trade deal with the EU. Robbins would have found it hard to negotiate a contract for the supply of Civil Service pencils and together they would find it hard making a profit from running a whelk stall. May, the worst PM in modern British political history.

Fuck knows what you're on about.

Either way, we're only days, maybe weeks, away from seeing what those masters of negotiation Frost and Boris come up with.

Whatever it is (or isn't) it will be entirely the work of our sovereign independent government working with full independence and sovereignty. In short, totally down to them to own.

[buctootim]

Just now, CB Fry said:

Fuck knows what you're on about.

Either way, we're only days, maybe weeks, away from seeing what those masters of negotiation Frost and Boris come up with.

Whatever it is (or isn't) it will be entirely the work of our sovereign independent government working with full independence and sovereignty. In short, totally down to them to own.

Yes but it wasn't fair because the other side wanted things too. And we're sovereign, and stuff.  

[Wes Tender]

That most useless of Ministers in Boris' government, Liz Truss, has somehow managed to get yet another trade deal done, this time with Vietnam. I await the usual tiresome guff about how miniscule it is and how we shouldn't have bothered with it. But as we sign deals with Asian Countries, we increase the chances of joining their trade blocs.

[Wes Tender]

7 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Fuck knows what you're on about.

Either way, we're only days, maybe weeks, away from seeing what those masters of negotiation Frost and Boris come up with.

Whatever it is (or isn't) it will be entirely the work of our sovereign independent government working with full independence and sovereignty. In short, totally down to them to own.

Good of you to quote to my post. That way Timmy can read it and respond while he supposedly has me on ignore.

[buctootim]

24 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

Good of you to quote to my post. That way Timmy can read it and respond while he supposedly has me on ignore.

I don't have you on ignore. As usual you read, got confused about who said what and didnt understand. I just choose to not engage with you unless you behave like a sentient rational being. Which isnt often. 

There is discussion to be had about the merits of the Vietnam deal and whether that will help open up ASEAN or whether its simply not possible for a high wage country to have a wide ranging deal with a low wage country which benefits us. But I doubt you are the person to have that with.   

Edited 12 December, 2020 by buctootim

[egg]

39 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

That most useless of Ministers in Boris' government, Liz Truss, has somehow managed to get yet another trade deal done, this time with Vietnam. I await the usual tiresome guff about how miniscule it is and how we shouldn't have bothered with it. But as we sign deals with Asian Countries, we increase the chances of joining their trade blocs.

I'm not sure tariff free lemongrass will be any consolation to the 7000 Nissan employees. 

[rallyboy]

Is this the official forum meeting place for angry people?

It reeks of simmering gammon and marinated pinkos.

😊

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[View From The Top]

2 hours ago, Wes Tender said:

That most useless of Ministers in Boris' government, Liz Truss, has somehow managed to get yet another trade deal done, this time with Vietnam. I await the usual tiresome guff about how miniscule it is and how we shouldn't have bothered with it. But as we sign deals with Asian Countries, we increase the chances of joining their trade blocs.

By another trade deal you mean another roll over deal that gives us the same terms as we already have?

You're obvious only a 30w bulb in a LED world.

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, Wes Tender said:

Which predictions that I have made have not come to pass?

As they tend to be about what might happen after Jan 1st 2021, very few, if any. On the other hand GM's historical record is quite poor, so at the moment it is probably neck and neck.

[Wes Tender]

35 minutes ago, View From The Top said:

By another trade deal you mean another roll over deal that gives us the same terms as we already have?

You're obvious only a 30w bulb in a LED world.

The roll-over is the beginning, improvements to them will take place after the 1st January. I accept that you will not be pleased at the speed and quantity that these deals are being completed, or that they will likely be a path towards far bigger deals with the blocs that these countries belong to, hence the usual petty insults.

[Wes Tender]

49 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

As they tend to be about what might happen after Jan 1st 2021, very few, if any. On the other hand GM's historical record is quite poor, so at the moment it is probably neck and neck.

So your post about my prediction record was groundless then. But one mustn't forget of course my being correct in predicting that we would not go for the Norway trade option with the EU post referendum. That was no special feat though, as most reasonably well informed people would have realised that the Norway option was never a realistic proposition.

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

So your post about my prediction record was groundless then.

I didn't make an assessment of your prediction record, I queried whether you or GM had so far been the more successful. If your running total is one, the Norway option, then you are ahead of GM. 😉

[Weston Super Saint]

The MoD have stated that the Royal Navy is ready to provide a 'robust defence' of UK fishing waters from the 1st of January.

I'm assuming CB Fry and Timmy won't have any issues with this, what with that being the decision of an independent Government protecting its own sovereignty...

[Lord Duckhunter]

16 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

But one mustn't forget of course my being correct in predicting that we would not go for the Norway trade option with the EU post referendum. 

You should have put money on it, or maybe a charity bet with a remainer. 

[Wes Tender]

15 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

You should have put money on it, or maybe a charity bet with a remainer. 

Yes, I'm kicking myself for not doing that, but I was doubtful as to whether anybody would be gullible enough to take it, bearing in mind the improbability of there being that outcome.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 minute ago, Wes Tender said:

Yes, I'm kicking myself for not doing that, but I was doubtful as to whether anybody would be gullible enough to take it, bearing in mind the improbability of there being that outcome.

Let alone finding someone who would actually cough up the cash...

[AlexLaw76]

28 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

The MoD have stated that the Royal Navy is ready to provide a 'robust defence' of UK fishing waters from the 1st of January.

I'm assuming CB Fry and Timmy won't have any issues with this, what with that being the decision of an independent Government protecting its own sovereignty...

Unsure why we would need to anything, given the EU is a rules based organisation.  Why would they breach international law in encroach in our waters without permission?

[Wade Garrett]

3 hours ago, egg said:

I'm not sure tariff free lemongrass will be any consolation to the 7000 Nissan employees. 

What consolation did the Southampton Ford workers get when Transit production was moved to Turkey, not even in the EU, with their operation financed by Brussels?

[Winnersaint]

Anyway on a lighter note I'd thought I'd share my go to recipes for each month next year to lighten the discourse on here

January - Turnip Gratin (are we allowed to use gratin after 31st Dec as its a French word?)

February - Turnip Omelette (Oops another French word!)

March - Turnip Goulash

April - Turnip Knodel

May - Turnip Arabbiata

June - Turnip Paella

July - Turnip Golombki

August - Turnip Souvlaki

September - Turnip Schnitzel

October - Turnip smørrebrød

November - Turnip Gravadlax

December - Oooopps no more fucking turnips!

Too many things way more important than this toxic little discussion to worry about in last 10 months. Looks that there may well be light at the end of that tunnel which to me is far more important. Like others I have become Brexit agnostic. In a sense pontificating and arguing  is futile, it will change nothing, there is so much more to life than Brexit. It'll shape our future for good or bad we don't know, same as this time last year I had no idea what 2020 was going to throw at me and my family. It hasn't been plain sailing but it has allowed me a better perspective on how things are.  Enjoy the recipes. 

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

The MoD have stated that the Royal Navy is ready to provide a 'robust defence' of UK fishing waters from the 1st of January.

I'm assuming CB Fry and Timmy won't have any issues with this, what with that being the decision of an independent Government protecting its own sovereignty...

The sovereign independent government can do what they want.

I didn't vote for these cunts so i can have all the "issues" I like with it.

[spyinthesky]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

What consolation did the Southampton Ford workers get when Transit production was moved to Turkey, not even in the EU, with their operation financed by Brussels?

Of course the move of Ford Transit to Turkey was financed by a loan agreed by the European Investment Bank which the UK participated in and benefitted from.
George Osborne sat on the Board of the EIB at the time.
The Ford factory in Ghenk, Belgium,also closed down as a consequence of the move.
This is the fact of the matter.

[egg]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

What consolation did the Southampton Ford workers get when Transit production was moved to Turkey, not even in the EU, with their operation financed by Brussels?

Completely irrelevant to the real possibility of Nissan Sunderland closing to leaving on wto terms, and a trade deal with Vietnam contributing nothing of note to our economy.

[Wade Garrett]

16 minutes ago, egg said:

Completely irrelevant to the real possibility of Nissan Sunderland closing to leaving on wto terms, and a trade deal with Vietnam contributing nothing of note to our economy.

My point was that we have lost industry because of the EU.

[Verbal]

9 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

My point was that we have lost industry because of the EU.

Your point is false.  Firstly, the loan for the Turkey factory was not to relocate from Southampton to Turkey.  The closure in Southampton was happening anyway.    Second, the loan itself was for £150m.  Set this against the £6bn that the EIB invested in Britain just in the year before the Brexit vote.  So no - the UK did not 'lose industry because of the EU', it substantially gained it.  

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, Verbal said:

So no - the UK did not 'lose industry because of the EU', it substantially gained it.  

Aren't Honda, Toyota, and Nissan all here because of the EU ? We might have offered the most advantageous 'package', but I don't think they would have established here without an unfettered route into the SM.

 

 

[Wade Garrett]

28 minutes ago, Verbal said:

Your point is false.  Firstly, the loan for the Turkey factory was not to relocate from Southampton to Turkey.  The closure in Southampton was happening anyway.    Second, the loan itself was for £150m.  Set this against the £6bn that the EIB invested in Britain just in the year before the Brexit vote.  So no - the UK did not 'lose industry because of the EU', it substantially gained it.  

There are a lot of my people I know who worked for Ford and would disagree with you.

[John B]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

Aren't Honda, Toyota, and Nissan all here because of the EU ? We might have offered the most advantageous 'package', but I don't think they would have established here without an unfettered route into the SM.

 

 

Yes one of Maggie Thatcher's successes 

 

But the EU was the greatest and most successful Socialist movement ever created. It protected us all - in terms of what we ate, our basic human rights, our health, how we were treated in the office and our environment.

[egg]

3 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

My point was that we have lost industry because of the EU.

You're wrong, as others have said. But even if you were right, it's still completely irrelevant to the fact that Nissan may well go as a result of a WTO brexit.  

[spyinthesky]

19 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

There are a lot of my people I know who worked for Ford and would disagree with you.

Wade, no disrespect to you or your family but the Turkish Govt obtained a loan from the EIB to improve production facilities at the Kocaeli plant and had to repay the loan with interest.
Now the terms of the deal could be subject to discussion but the fact that another (and bigger) Ford plant in Belgium had to close as a consequence indicates that the UK was not being penalised by the EU as many Brexiteers made out.

[Lord Duckhunter]

18 hours ago, John B said:

 

 

But the EU was the greatest and most successful Socialist movement ever created. It protected us all - in terms of what we ate, our basic human rights, our health, how we were treated in the office and our environment.

 

Without the glorious EU we’d have kids up chimneys, people working 18 hour days before licking road clean, and families living in a hole in the ground covered by a piece of tarpolin, yet you try and tell the leavers  that... and they won't believe ya 

Edited 13 December, 2020 by Lord Duckhunter

[badgerx16]

30 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

 

Without the glorious EU we’d have kids up chimneys, people working 18 hour days before licking road clean, and families living in a hole in the ground covered by a piece of tarpolin, yet you try and tell the leavers  that... and they won't believe ya 

But did you work 29 hours a day at t'mill and pay the mill owner for the privilege ?

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

But did you work 29 hours a day at t'mill and pay the mill owner for the privilege ?

We did before we joined the glorious union. 

[kyle04]

29 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

 

Without the glorious EU we’d have kids up chimneys, people working 18 hour days before licking road clean, and families living in a hole in the ground covered by a piece of tarpolin, yet you try and tell the leavers  that... and they won't believe ya 

Ah those were the days, when the proles knew their place, and were glad of it. We can now look forward to the return of the feudal system, curvy cucumbers , Elgar on the wireless and French fishing vessels burning in the North Sea, courtesy of the Senior Service.

[Guided Missile]

Thankfully, this thread will end on January 1st, 2021. I, for one, will be celebrating the fact that, like many of our brave soldiers, landing on the beaches on D-Day to help liberate France and the rest of Europe, we will be going in the opposite direction to liberate Britain. The EU is a dangerous organisation, changed beyond recognition from the  European Economic Community that was formed by the Treaty of Rome. The "Economic" part of the description was dropped in 1993, because the original concept always was a political union, that was soon to be dominated by Germany. Post WWII and the Potsdam Agreement, they were prevented from dominating continents by force, as they and France had tried to, on and off, for the previous two centuries.

There was one country they could never dominate and as the supplicant ex-communist countries, the populations of which were used to being ruled by unelected  bureaucrats, were drawn into the EU, that country has said no more. The trade agreement negotiations are just a chance for a tin-pot French president with a Napoleon complex and an East-German, ex-Stasi member, to try and give Britain a kicking, before we finally leave their rotting and corrupt bloc. A trade deal may be nice, but it shrinks into a pointless piece of paper when we start reforming the rules that govern our trade, taxes and state aid. More importantly, we will be given an opportunity to again demonstrate why we are the shining beacon of democracy and innovation that we have been over the last two centuries, when we weren't defeating unelected French and German dictatorships. 

As we leave the EU at midnight, on the 31st December, 2020, I will be turning round and giving the time-honoured "V-sign" to the EU and will enjoy the challenges we will face up to, in 2021. What I will be most looking forward to in 2021, is returning to Europe to watch the Saints in the Champions League, carrying a blue passport and a red and white scarf.         

[badgerx16]

I hope you had Land of hope and Glory playing at full volume whilst you composed that diatribe.

[Tamesaint]

11 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

I hope you had Land of hope and Glory playing at full volume whilst you composed that diatribe.

Its a good example of how after a heavy night on the booze you can still be drunk the next morning.

[Winnersaint]

15 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

I hope you had Land of hope and Glory playing at full volume whilst you composed that diatribe.

Yes, just a big stinking  pile of cheap patriotism and plastic jingoism.

[Guided Missile]

I see all the traitors are out in force.

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, Winnersaint said:

Yes, just a big stinking  pile of cheap patriotism and plastic jingoism.

But he does it so well. I suppose it's the result of King Edwards making him a "moron".

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, Guided Missile said:

I see all the traitors are out in force.

Triggered.

 

As you're so keen on democracy, care to enlighten us on how well your icon Donnie T is getting on ?

Edited 14 December, 2020 by badgerx16