Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Wes Tender]

2 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Wes has a set group of phrases that he is confident in using, and rarely strays from his script; remoaner, vicar's daughter, grocer Heath, regain control, sclerotic EU, pillaging our waters. At least he tends to refrain from"traitors", or asking for Remain voters to be strung up with piano wire.

PS: and his match assessments are usually spot on.

Plundering our waters, not pillaging; I don't recall using pillaging. 😉 And you are correct, I have never called for remoaners to be strung up or called them traitors. I am a democrat and believe in the right to freedom of speech and opinion. I would say that my language has been pretty mild, compared to that which is hurled at we Brexiteers on here. Clueless wankers, village idiots, Jihadists, fuckwits, retards, etc. have all been flung about liberally by some. But it's a football forum, so only to be expected, I suppose. And the double standards are breathtaking when over-sensitive souls are offended by being called remoaners and yet have nothing at all to say about the use of the far more industrial and insulting language of others on their side of the argument. The weakest and most risible insult though, is to be accused of being of pensionable age and apparently being schooled in one's opinions via Facebook. I'm afraid that I have no control over my age, but on the plus side it provides an ability to assess situations through experience. I only use Facebook to keep in touch with family and friends on four Continents, nothing more. Ironic really when in the next breath the same poster quotes Twatter as a source for his opinions. I'm not on the banal and unreliable Twatter, preferring to obtain my current affairs information from numerous other sources both pro and anti-Brexit.

[gordonToo]

I've thought for some time that this is a process that has to go to its (il)logical conclusion before common sense returns. Until then the ideologues will spin their lies and half truths lost in their own fantasy world of English exceptionalism. 

[AlexLaw76]

The EU has decided that in the event of 'no deal', the current fisheries policy will remain in place for another 12 months.

 

😑

[Guided Missile]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

The EU has decided that in the event of 'no deal', the current fisheries policy will remain in place for another 12 months.

 

😑

It is not for the EU to extend the current fisheries policy. We have to agree to it. I'd tell Macron to fuck off.

Meanwhile, as of today, the UK has arranged FTAs with almost 60 countries and we have fisheries agreements in place with Norway and Iceland, which incidentally involve the annual discussions which are so difficult for the EU, even though fishing is much more important to these two countries than to the EU.

I wonder what proportion of the population of the UK just wants to leave this EU prison? Even most of the so-called remainers, I would imagine, now that the EU 27 are resorting to German led bullying. Still the Germans have form, don't they?

Edited 10 December, 2020 by Guided Missile

[badgerx16]

17 minutes ago, Guided Missile said:

Still the Germans have form, don't they?

How do you think the British Empire came to cover a third of the globe, knocking politely and asking if the locals wanted to have a nice cup of tea ?

[Lord Duckhunter]

49 minutes ago, Guided Missile said:

 

I wonder what proportion of the population of the UK just wants to leave this EU prison? Even most of the so-called remainers, I would imagine, now that the EU 27 are resorting to German led bullying. Still the Germans have form, don't they?

It’s been clear from day one that the only thing the EU want out of this negotiation is to put other countries off leaving. If we thrive out of it, the whole thing will collapse as country after country follow suit. It’s not about what’s best for the population of Europe, but what best stops another country leaving. If we’d never been in the EU they would have offered us a deal vastly different to the one that they’re proposing at the moment. 
 

I reckon if we leave the transition on Australian terms, opinion poll after opinion poll will blame The Little Europeans, and polls will also give Boris a boost. 

 

[gordonToo]

20 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s been clear from day one that the only thing the EU want out of this negotiation is to put other countries off leaving.

 

It's more than that. Membership of the single market requires all participants to follow the same rules for zero tariff trade.  Take away that requirement and the single market ceases to exists. To expect any other outcome is a delusion.

[Guided Missile]

2 minutes ago, gordonToo said:

It's more than that. Membership of the single market requires all participants to follow the same rules for zero tariff trade.  Take away that requirement and the single market ceases to exists. To expect any other outcome is a delusion.

We're looking for a trade deal, not to become a member.

[Danbert]

3 minutes ago, Guided Missile said:

We're looking for a trade deal, not to become a member.

True, and as a non-member we can expect tariffs. That's basically what being a non-member means.

[Weston Super Saint]

17 minutes ago, Danbert said:

True, and as a non-member we can expect tariffs. That's basically what being a non-member means.

Like Canada?

[Wes Tender]

13 minutes ago, Danbert said:

True, and as a non-member we can expect tariffs. That's basically what being a non-member means.

You don't need to be a member of the EU single market to avoid tariffs. A FTA between the two parties can do away with the majority of them. Canada, Japan, S.Korea and others have FTAs with the EU doing away with most tariffs without having to have Single Market membership. Tariffs will only apply if there is no FTA, and of course they will apply both ways.

 

[Danbert]

10 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

You don't need to be a member of the EU single market to avoid tariffs. A FTA between the two parties can do away with the majority of them. Canada, Japan, S.Korea and others have FTAs with the EU doing away with most tariffs without having to have Single Market membership. Tariffs will only apply if there is no FTA, and of course they will apply both ways.

 

"most tariffs"

[buctootim]

2 hours ago, Guided Missile said:

 

Meanwhile, as of today, the UK has arranged FTAs with almost 60 countries

Nope 28 after January 1st most of them absolutely tiny. £9m pa with the Palestine Authority? Rocketing up to £10m with Kosovo. Switzerland and Canada are the only really substantial ones. 

[Weston Super Saint]

5 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Nope 28 after January 1st most of them absolutely tiny. £9m pa with the Palestine Authority? Rocketing up to £10m with Kosovo. Switzerland and Canada are the only really substantial ones. 

Like the tiny, £17bn one with Singapore.

https://www.ft.com/content/51b7eb87-5812-4765-a483-d50c2c66f130

Quote

The new deal covers more than £17bn of trade in goods and services and largely replicates the existing EU-Singapore FTA, the governments said in a joint statement. Under the current arrangement, 84 per cent of tariffs that apply to Singapore exports to the UK are exempted, with the balance set to be struck off by November 2024.

 

[buctootim]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s been clear from day one that the only thing the EU want out of this negotiation is to put other countries off leaving.

 

Thats another 180 turn. You used to argue we were going to get a great deal on the same terms but without having to pay in or accept the obligations of the single market. When I said they'd never offer a better deal to non members than members you said......

[badgerx16]

3 hours ago, Guided Missile said:

 

Meanwhile, as of today, the UK has arranged FTAs with almost 60 countries......

 

According to the Government;

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade-agreements-with-non-eu-countries#trade-agreements-from-1-january-2021

 

That makes about 54, if I have counted correctly and you are happy to count each Caribbean Island as a separate country. ( How much trade to we have with those Global trading giants St Lucia or Dominica ? ). There is also the UK-Pacific agreement, with Fiji and PNG, or the Eastern and Southern Africa one with Mauritius and the Seychelles - that should keep the Balance of Trade going. The list also includes the Ivory Coast, the Faroe Islands, and Leichtenstein.

Of our top 10 trading partner nations, the only one we have an agreement with is Switzerland - #10. If you count the EU as a single entity, we do not have agreements with any of the top 3: the EU, the USA, and China.

Edited 10 December, 2020 by badgerx16

[badgerx16]

49 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Like the tiny, £17bn one with Singapore.

https://www.ft.com/content/51b7eb87-5812-4765-a483-d50c2c66f130

 

Singapore is #20 on the list of UK trading partners, if the EU countries are listed individually, #13 if the EU bloc counts as one, with a little over 1% of UK international trade..

Edited 10 December, 2020 by badgerx16

[Weston Super Saint]

And yet we have one with Canada who also have one with the EU.

Theoretically, nothing stopping a company from Canada buying goods from the EU and then selling them on to the UK before they've even left the EU - obviously adding on a small mark up for their trouble - FTA with the EU via the backdoor and plenty of money to be made for anyone looking to take advantage...

[Weston Super Saint]

4 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Singapore is #20 on the list of UK trading partners, if the EU countries are listed individually, #13 if the EU bloc counts as one.

Not really bothered about the 'list' tbh.  The point was that £17bn isn't exactly 'tiny' as Tim claimed.

Mind you, the 'list' does pour scorn on Timmy's claim of 28 deals done to date.

Edited 10 December, 2020 by Weston Super Saint

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Not really bothered about the 'list' tbh.  The point was that £17bn isn't exactly 'tiny' as Tim claimed.

Compared to the EU trade it is.

Edited 10 December, 2020 by badgerx16

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

And yet we have one with Canada who also have one with the EU.

 

We have an 'Agreement in Principle" with Canada to roll over their deal with the EU in lieu of negotiating our own agreement, which the Canadian PM said could take years.

[Wes Tender]

1 hour ago, buctootim said:

Thats another 180 turn. You used to argue we were going to get a great deal on the same terms but without having to pay in or accept the obligations of the single market. 

I don't recall LD saying those exact words. Are you paraphrasing incorrectly to make a point? No doubt you will be happy to post the exact quote.

 

[buctootim]

17 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Not really bothered about the 'list' tbh.  The point was that £17bn isn't exactly 'tiny' as Tim claimed.

Mind you, the 'list' does pour scorn on Timmy's claim of 28 deals done to date.

I said most of them were tiny. Singapore is third biggest on the list of the 28. So by definition is not one of 'most' group. Pig shit thick  

[buctootim]

Just now, Wes Tender said:

I don't recall LD saying those exact words. Are you paraphrasing incorrectly to make a point? No doubt you will be happy to post the exact quote.

 

You cant recall what you had for breakfast cognition man. 

[Wes Tender]

 

Just now, buctootim said:

You cant recall what you had for breakfast cognition man. 

You can't recall the £50 bet you made that we would take the Norway option.

[buctootim]

1 minute ago, Wes Tender said:

 

You can't recall the £50 bet you made that we would take the Norway option.

Your posts are like playing bingo with only 5 numbers.   

[Weston Super Saint]

6 minutes ago, buctootim said:

I said most of them were tiny. Singapore is third biggest on the list of the 28. So by definition is not one of 'most' group. Pig shit thick  

Lol.

Badger counted 54, you counted 28.  Those 'pig shit thick' people in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones  

[Wes Tender]

1 minute ago, buctootim said:

Your posts are like playing bingo with only 5 numbers.   

I have given up expecting you to act honourably and with integrity over that bet. 

Going back to the question I asked, are you going to post that quote from LD?

[buctootim]

3 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

I have given up expecting you to act honourably and with integrity over that bet. 

Going back to the question I asked, are you going to post that quote from LD?

I tithe 5% of my salary every month to charity sad sack so it has never been an issue - it is substantially more than £50, every month . For you however a £50 bet to charity is an event so momentous that you bang on about it for four years. We are different characters Wes and I wouldnt be you even if my life depended on it. 

Edited 10 December, 2020 by buctootim

[buctootim]

7 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Lol.

Badger counted 54, you counted 28.  Those 'pig shit thick' people in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones  

I said 28 FTA piggy. Actually I miscounted and its 27. Go and count them if you can get above 10.  

[Wes Tender]

12 minutes ago, buctootim said:

I said most of them were tiny. Singapore is third biggest on the list of the 28. So by definition is not one of 'most' group. Pig shit thick  

Another fine example of the sort of puerile insult hurled at the Brexit side. I invite condemnation of this sort of behaviour by those who are unhappy at the pretty mild names that the remain side are called. I won't hold my breath though.

[badgerx16]

7 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Lol.

Badger counted 54, you counted 28.  Those 'pig shit thick' people in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones  

There are 28 agreements, with @54 countries - most of which hardly show up on GOOGLE Earth, let alone on our trade statistics.

[badgerx16]

6 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

 the pretty mild names that the remain side are called.

"Traitors" ?

I get the impression that the phrase was personal, rather than aimed collectively at Brexiteers.

Edited 10 December, 2020 by badgerx16

[buctootim]

1 minute ago, Wes Tender said:

Another fine example of the sort of puerile insult hurled at the Brexit side. I invite condemnation of this sort of behaviour by those who are unhappy at the pretty mild names that the remain side are called. I won't hold my breath though.

Wes I have contempt for you, not because of Brexit, some people can make a cogent argument and have honestly held beliefs - but because you are destructive, dishonest, dissembling, disingenuous shape shifter. You are an absolute horror of a man.  That is all. 

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, buctootim said:

Wes I have contempt for you, not because of Brexit, some people can make a cogent argument and have honestly held beliefs - but because you are destructive, dishonest, dissembling, disingenuous shape shifter. You are an absolute horror of a man.  That is all. 

Put him on ignore, or at least refrain from reponding to him. 😉

[Wes Tender]

2 minutes ago, buctootim said:

I tithe 5% of my salary every month to charity sad sack so it has never been an issue - it is substantially more than £50, every month . For you however a £50 bet to charity is an event so momentous that you bang on about it for four years. We are different characters Wes and I wouldnt be you even if my life depended on it. 

It isn't about the money, I could easily afford far more than the £50 too. I recall that originally you balked at the amount. It is the principle, something that you appear to have difficulty grasping. A bet is a matter of honour and you don't seem to have that virtue. 

[buctootim]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

Put him on ignore, or at least refrain from reponding to him. 😉

I will. That was my parting gift :) 

[Wes Tender]

 

1 minute ago, buctootim said:

I will. That was my parting gift :) 

Good riddance

[Wes Tender]

12 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

There are 28 agreements, with @54 countries - most of which hardly show up on GOOGLE Earth, let alone on our trade statistics.

Lots of the EU deals are also with small Islands and no account small backwater countries too.

https://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/negotiations-and-agreements/

[badgerx16]

6 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

Lots of the EU deals are also with small Islands and no account small backwater countries too.

https://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/negotiations-and-agreements/

Indeed, but until we can sort out FTAs with our top 3 trading partners, the vast majority of our international trade, ( approx 70% ), is liable to WTO terms and tariffs. Bigging up the deals with the Faroes, Kosovo, Palestine, and Leichtenstein is papering over an extremely large crack.

Edited 10 December, 2020 by badgerx16

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 hours ago, buctootim said:

Thats another 180 turn. You used to argue we were going to get a great deal on the same terms but without having to pay in or accept the obligations of the single market. When I said they'd never offer a better deal to non members than members you said......

No I did not. You’re making things up.

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, buctootim said:

I said 28 FTA piggy. Actually I miscounted and its 27. Go and count them if you can get above 10.  

Jesus wept!  I used to think you were just pretending to be 'Tim, nice but dim', recently you are do everything in your power to prove that is exactly who you are.

GM originally stated that we have FTAs with almost 60 COUNTRIES - I've put the important bit in capitals for you so you don't miss it - here is his statement :

6 hours ago, Guided Missile said:

 

Meanwhile, as of today, the UK has arranged FTAs with almost 60 countries and we have fisheries agreements in place with Norway and Iceland, which incidentally involve the annual discussions which are so difficult for the EU, even though fishing is much more important to these two countries than to the EU.

You've then argued with that statement claiming there are only 28 after 1st January - here is your statement :

 

3 hours ago, buctootim said:

Nope 28 after January 1st most of them absolutely tiny. £9m pa with the Palestine Authority? Rocketing up to £10m with Kosovo. Switzerland and Canada are the only really substantial ones. 

It's only now that you are claiming FTAs as opposed to the FTAs with COUNTRIES that GM stated.  At no point before then did you claim it was stand alone FTAs, so it stands to reason you were arguing (pointlessly) with GMs statement about countries.

As I said before, those 'thick as shit' people in glass houses, shouldn't be throwing stones.

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Indeed, but until we can sort out FTAs with our top 3 trading partners, the vast majority of our international trade, ( approx 70% ), is liable to WTO terms and tariffs. Bigging up the deals with the Faroes, Kosovo, Palestine, and Leichtenstein is papering over an extremely large crack.

Haven't we always traded with 2 of our top 3 trading partners on WTO terms and tariffs?

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

There are 28 agreements, with @54 countries - most of which hardly show up on GOOGLE Earth, let alone on our trade statistics.

So pretty much what GM stated when he said we had FTAs with 'almost' 60 countries then?

[badgerx16]

4 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

So pretty much what GM stated when he said we had FTAs with 'almost' 60 countries then?

Did I disagree with him ? Or merely elaborate ?

Edited 10 December, 2020 by badgerx16

[badgerx16]

9 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Haven't we always traded with 2 of our top 3 trading partners on WTO terms and tariffs?

Yes, but trade with the US and China is less than half of our trade with the EU, and when you add that in it makes over 2/3rds of our total trade would be on WTO terms, rather than slightly over 20%.

[Tamesaint]

Hmm. These "Australian trading terms" that Johnson bangs on about are so wonderful that the Aussies have spent the last 2 and a half years trying to negotiate a FTA. They don't like them!

 

[Mosin]

33 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

Hmm. These "Australian trading terms" that Johnson bangs on about are so wonderful that the Aussies have spent the last 2 and a half years trying to negotiate a FTA. They don't like them!

 

Bet they dont have to hand over board controls give freedom of movement, or have to pay billions into it and every thing else in exchange for such a privalige like Remainers and eu are so keen for  the UK to give away.

[Sheaf Saint]

Quote

OK so I know this is an unsubstantiated Twitter rumour,, but does anybody here have even the slightest bit of difficulty believing it?

Johnson and Frost turned up in Brussels looking like a pair of pissed photocopier salesmen on their works xmas night out.

 

[Weston Super Saint]

13 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

 

It's the only possible conclusion that can be drawn really.  Four and a half years of negotiations, elections, law making and lots of cross channel visits, but in the end it is all completely ruined with less than three weeks to go, because Boris cracked a shit joke and looked scruffy (which is his 'trademark' anyway isn't it?)