Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Hockey_saint]

But you even said that wasn't why they voted so it didn't really fool anyone. Besides, the remain side used the exact same tactics with their dire predictions.

 

It's pretty dire already, look at the pound, I'm off to NZ in a few months and my travel pounds are now worth bugger all. We've not even left yet!

[Charlie Wayman]

... and whilst this debate spirals ever downwards, we are not even out of Europe until at least 2019 so Brexit hasn't even started and the full impact of Brexit cannot possibly be known for at least another 5 or 6 years. Right now the short-term impacts look pretty grim to me with the Euro at 1.13 and dollar at 1.27

[Sour Mash]

It's pretty dire already, look at the pound, I'm off to NZ in a few months and my travel pounds are now worth bugger all. We've not even left yet!

So its dire because it makes your holiday more expensive?

[Sour Mash]

It was totally misleading as it did not acknowledge that a large proportion of that money came back to the UK in the form of grants and subsidies so on that basis alone it was a Lie. The net flow of cash out was very much lower and that was the price of being a member of the club. As far as I know you do not get free membership of a golf club for very obvious reasons. Typically those who voted 'out' want everything for nothing, little englanders used to a nanny welfare state where you don't have to work if you can't be Rrsed.

You might have found it misleading, most normal people didn't.

[Sour Mash]

Because straight after the vote, it was immediatley backtracked by everyone on leave and Hypochondriac, if you really think no one was swayed by that...well, I think you are overating the intellegence of some people.

That doesn't explain why you find something straight forward so difficult to understand.

[Hockey_saint]

That doesn't explain why you find something straight forward so difficult to understand.

 

Why is it straightforward?....write on a bus we'll save tons of money, mention the NHS on the same bus and it's disgracefully misleading at best......I fail to understand your worming about on this.

[Sour Mash]

Why is it straightforward?....write on a bus we'll save tons of money, mention the NHS on the same bus and it's disgracefully misleading at best......I fail to understand your worming about on this.

Because its a ton of money that will be at the disposal of our government, not the EU and a great example of where this could be spent is the NHS. If the people of this country are unhappy where it is spent they can take our govt to task. Why do you find that so complicated?

 

But you are hard to take seriously when you think that a relevant negative of Brexit is your holiday to New Zealand costing more

[Hockey_saint]

Because its a ton of money that will be at the disposal of our government, not the EU and a great example of where this could be spent is the NHS. If the people of this country are unhappy where it is spent they can take our govt to task. Why do you find that so complicated?

 

But you are hard to take seriously when you think that a relevant negative of Brexit is your holiday to New Zealand costing more

 

The pound has tanked (which is quite a serious issue actually)...it's a pretty negative effect on my spending money so yeah...that's hard to take seriously is it?

 

 

You're either well, quite a dishonest person to think the bus issue is ok, or you're just a troll like GM.

Edited 5 October, 2016 by Hockey_saint

[Sour Mash]

The pound has tanked (which is quite a serious issue actually)...it's a pretty negative effect on my spending money so yeah...that's hard to take seriously is it?

Yes

[Johnny Bognor]

It was totally misleading as it did not acknowledge that a large proportion of that money came back to the UK in the form of grants and subsidies so on that basis alone it was a Lie.

 

Indeed some of it is provided in grants, but in areas of the EU's choosing and often with a requirement for the UK to match the funding. Therefore although some comes back, we lose control of it.

 

It would have been more accurate to state that we would save the net contribution (which is less than £350 million) and have control over the rest, rather than handing control of that budget to the EU. This would have been factually correct and funnily enough would have added up to £350 million

 

Typically those who voted 'out' want everything for nothing, little englanders used to a nanny welfare state where you don't have to work if you can't be Rrsed.

 

LOL when you consider the EU is the overiding mother of all 'nanny states'

[moonraker]

If it had very little effect and was called out at the time then why is it disgraceful and a scandal? It wasn't a promise, and I doubt very much that anyone's vote was swayed by that.

 

Political campaigns are based on convicing the electorate to vote for one option or another. They have limited funds and clever people decide how best to convince the voters to vote for them, so the leave PR team decided claiming that the EU contribution would go to the NHS would sway enough voters to make it worthwhile. Whilst I agree that immigration was the number one issue, so why not use their limited funds to decorate the Boris Battle Bus with an anti-immigration message and re-enforce leaves key message?

[moonraker]

You might have found it misleading, most normal people didn't.

 

Rubbish, numeous interviews with leave voters demonstrated that many of them belived it, the advertsing standrads authority found against them. It is a lie worthy of Trump, an only an ideologue or an idiot would defend it, which are you?

Edited 5 October, 2016 by moonraker

[Hockey_saint]

Political campaigns are based on convicing the electorate to vote for one option or another. They have limited funds and clever people decide how best to convince the voters to vote for them, so the leave PR team decided claiming that the EU contribution would go to the NHS would sway enough voters to make it worthwhile. Whilst I agree that immigration was the number one issue, so why not use their limited funds to decorate the Boris Battle Bus with an anti-immigration message and re-enforce leaves key message?

 

I think the crux of my argument as far as the bus goes is that the NHS and that amount are on the same canvas as it were and if you were to try and, for example, sell something with advertising like that in a retail sense, you'd find yourself in serious trouble with misleading advertising and trading standards because like it or not, the very mention of the NHS is associating it with that amount of money, which, dispite what the right wingers say here is a bit dodgy.

[Sour Mash]

Rubbish, numeous interviews with leave voters demonstrated that many of them belived it, the advertsing standrads authority found against them. It is a lie worthy of Trump, an only and ideologue or an idiot would defend it, which are you?

It isn't a lie, why do you find that complicated? Only a proper simpleton wouldn't understand the point. Please tell us what action the Advertising Standards Agency have taken against them?

 

Now if we're talking about genuinely unpleasant campaigns, trying to divide the country, try this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36379934

[Guided Missile]

Because straight after the vote, it was immediatley backtracked by everyone on leave and Hypochondriac, if you really think no one was swayed by that...well, I think you are overating the intellegence of some people.

It was a real shame that "some people" do not possess the "intellegence" you do. If they did, I am sure the country would have voted "immediatley" to remain.

[Hockey_saint]

It isn't a lie, why do you find that complicated? Only a proper simpleton wouldn't understand the point. Please tell us what action the Advertising Standards Agency have taken against them?

 

Now if we're talking about genuinely unpleasant campaigns, trying to divide the country, try this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36379934

 

Sounds reasonable....push a right wing campaign, the right wingers....however much you are clearly in denial.....includes racist thugs...will come out in their droves and vote to kick out foreigners...why is that complicated or wrong?....it looks fine....So we should all be petty bigotted skinhead sympathisers should we?

[Hockey_saint]

GM shut up you indoctrinated troll.

[Guided Missile]

GM shut up you indoctrinated troll.

[notnowcato]

Pensioners rioting in Greece.... Pensioners FFS!

 

It's an utter disgrace how the EU have protected the German banks and forced poverty on the Greek pensioners.

[moonraker]

It isn't a lie, why do you find that complicated? Only a proper simpleton wouldn't understand the point. Please tell us what action the Advertising Standards Agency have taken against them?

 

Now if we're talking about genuinely unpleasant campaigns, trying to divide the country, try this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36379934

 

Apology, the ASA did not take action, it was only suggested they should, but they can't rule on political adevertising, which is shame. In spite of my error it remains a fact it was a lie, a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood. All analysis of the claim has proven it to fit the definition of a lie, and all leave leaders have deistanced themselves from it since the vote. So no amount of insults or rewriting history will change it.

[moonraker]

It was a real shame that "some people" do not possess the "intellegence" you do. If they did, I am sure the country would have voted "immediatley" to remain.

 

Hooray you have got something right at last.

[notnowcato]

 

Sue me!

[Hockey_saint]

 

Sue me!

 

Perhaps the doctors on strike should. Still you've taken back control...of a failed state who's major financial centre pretty much, with one voice, voted against such an irrational course of action.

[notnowcato]

...

[hypochondriac]

It's pretty dire already, look at the pound, I'm off to NZ in a few months and my travel pounds are now worth bugger all. We've not even left yet!

Any turbulence we have experienced thus far is nothing like what was predicted and even those who made those predictions have conceded that they exaggerated. Let's not pretend that these predictions were not made with vested interests in remaining. I can accept looking at things in a balanced way but some of the doom laden predictions were laughable and ultimately turned people off voting to remain.

[notnowcato]

Perhaps the doctors on strike should. Still you've taken back control...of a failed state who's major financial centre pretty much, with one voice, voted against such an irrational course of action.

 

Wow... financial centre votes against insecurity shocker. Insecure, as they perceive they can predict the future but this vote clearly clouds the predictions... Do you think the financial centre had the well being of the nation as the reason to remain?

 

Edited 5 October, 2016 by notnowcato

[Sour Mash]

Apology, the ASA did not take action.

Glad it didn't take too long to establish that you're wrong. I'm not sure if you're an ideologue or an idiot, probably a combination of both.

 

Apology accepted anyway.

[Sour Mash]

Perhaps the doctors on strike should. Still you've taken back control...of a failed state who's major financial centre pretty much, with one voice, voted against such an irrational course of action.

F**ks sake.

[Sour Mash]

Wow... financial centre votes against insecurity shocker. Insecure, as they perceive they can predict the future but this vote clearly clouds the predictions...

 

Hockey Saint is a big supporter of global financial institutions over the views of ordinary working Brits.

[Hockey_saint]

Hockey Saint is a big supporter of global financial institutions over the views of ordinary working Brits.

 

The only turkeys voting for Christmas were the EU dependant Welsh voting to leave...the morons.

[Hockey_saint]

F**ks sake.

 

Give it time, we've not left the EU yet...but we've already dropped a place in the richest country list.

 

Besides, you're just a poor man's Thatcherite GM...not a very bright one either since, as I say, everyone she worked with agrees she'd fined the course of action you leavers are suggesting to be totally bonkers.

Edited 5 October, 2016 by Hockey_saint

[buctootim]

Give it time, we've not left the EU yet...but we've already dropped a place in the richest country list.

 

Besides, you're just a poor man's Thatcherite GM...not a very bright one either since, as I say, everyone she worked with agrees she'd fined the course of action you leavers are suggesting to be totally bonkers.

 

Thats a mark of how far to the right this country has gradually lurched. Thatcher used to be seen as hard right - but she would never have considered half the things the Tory party have done in the past few years.

 

I genuinely fear we will end up like America - an economy which delivers healthy economic growth, but it goes almost entirely to the top 1% (mainly the top 0.1%) and very low levels of social mobility. How can one of the richest countries in the world have neo-natal death rates higher than Costa Rica?

[Johnny Bognor]

Apology, the ASA did not take action, it was only suggested they should, but they can't rule on political adevertising, which is shame. In spite of my error it remains a fact it was a lie, a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood. All analysis of the claim has proven it to fit the definition of a lie, and all leave leaders have deistanced themselves from it since the vote. So no amount of insults or rewriting history will change it.

 

“We don’t have to give the EU £350 million per week – only £250 million. For now.”

 

 

.... I’m sure that argument would have brought people flocking back to vote Remain LOL

[Hockey_saint]

Thats a mark of how far to the right this country has gradually lurched. Thatcher used to be seen as hard right - but she would never have considered half the things the Tory party have done in the past few years.

 

I genuinely fear we will end up like America - an economy which delivers healthy economic growth, but it goes almost entirely to the top 1% (mainly the top 0.1%) and very low levels of social mobility. How can one of the richest countries in the world have neo-natal death rates higher than Costa Rica?

 

That's where London basically, with one voice, voting to remain becomeas....as Dave put it "deliciously ironic". Because even the fat cats in the city are not foolish enough to think this wont financially cripple us. The same fat cats who fund the tory party as well.

[buctootim]

“We don’t have to give the EU £350 million per week – only £250 million. For now.”

 

.... I’m sure that argument would have brought people flocking back to vote Remain LOL

 

You can demonise anyone and anything. We give over £12bn a year to the UN and other agencies. Just a big bureacracy innit. We'd be better off on our own making our own deals mate.

[aintforever]

Name me one. I mean, if you balanced the two out, it's pretty obvious who the fantasists were...but they won that;s why prosecution is suggested....remain didn't promise all that money and align themselves with right wing hate groups did they? I love this counter arguement...name me one remain lie that is in any way comparable to that one. you can't.

 

Fact is, wanting to grasp control of your own country, stopping it from becoming a mere state in a continental federation (whilst rather old world)is admirable, trying to make agreements with the rest of the world as a sovereign nation...again, commendable but don't make up massive, massive inflated lies, paint them on a bus and then accuse the other side of "oh well, they told lies too" they didn't parade a bus with that HUGE lie on it around the country to those silly enough to believe it to sway their vote!

 

Well we had the emergency Brexit budget that didn't happen. A PM resigning that wasn't going to happen. World war three, financial meltdown etc etc

 

The £350m bus wasn't even a promise or a manifesto from a government who could implement it, it was a suggestion by an independent campaign. There are disputes about the figures involved which were obviously dodgy but the point about spending our money elsewhere was valid.

 

The funny thing about the remoaners banging on about that bus thing is that during the entire campaign I never once heard a remainer say what the correct amount of money we send over to Brussels every day was. How many hundreds of millions a day we subsidise Poland and Romania, and pay the EU bureaucrats appeared to be a very hush hush subject.

[Johnny Bognor]

You can demonise anyone and anything. We give over £12bn a year to the UN and other agencies. Just a big bureacracy innit. We'd be better off on our own making our own deals mate.

 

The remainers are complaining about the £350 million a week, when in fact the net amount is closer to £250 million a week. They would have been no worse off if they printed the £250m.

 

To the ordinary person on the street, £250 mil sounds like a hell of a lot of money, but the reality is that it isn't really that much

[Hockey_saint]

Well we had the emergency Brexit budget that didn't happen. A PM resigning that wasn't going to happen. World war three, financial meltdown etc etc

 

The £350m bus wasn't even a promise or a manifesto from a government who could implement it, it was a suggestion by an independent campaign. There are disputes about the figures involved which were obviously dodgy but the point about spending our money elsewhere was valid.

 

The funny thing about the remoaners banging on about that bus thing is that during the entire campaign I never once heard a remainer say what the correct amount of money we send over to Brussels every day was. How many hundreds of millions a day we subsidise Poland and Romania, and pay the EU bureaucrats appeared to be a very hush hush subject.

 

Not sure how much we pay those dodgy Brussells politicians...we should ask Nige how much he's on to prop up the bars there.

[moonraker]

Which international collaborative, consensus based institution will we be camapigning to leave next. The whole leave campaign was and is a fraud, the world is interconnected and interdependent with one possible exception no country has real control we are all subjetc to outside regulations, laws and standards.

[Hockey_saint]

Which international collaborative, consensus based institution will we be camapigning to leave next. The whole leave campaign was and is a fraud, the world is interconnected and interdependent with one possible exception no country has real control we are all subjetc to outside regulations, laws and standards.

 

That's the point I made to someone at work, the EU isn't perfect by a longshot but it's basically just a stepping stone to entirely interconnected planet....kinda like how every futuristic movie show a "one world council" and such. Anything else is just living in the past.

[Wes Tender]

That's where London basically, with one voice, voting to remain becomeas....as Dave put it "deliciously ironic". Because even the fat cats in the city are not foolish enough to think this wont financially cripple us. The same fat cats who fund the tory party as well.

 

I advised you three hours ago to stop digging, but I see on my return that you've apparently been trying to dig your way to New Zealand, as you can't afford the air fare because of the weaker £.

 

No wonder you feel so aggrieved and would have preferred our continued membership of the EU in order that your holiday would be more affordable. A pity that you didn't have the foresight to change your holiday spending money into US Dollars pre-referendum, but I suspect that you never thought that it possible that your lot would lose against the thicko, racist, little-Englanders.

 

Most of the City fat cats have had to eat large slices of humble pie, as it has come to pass that most of them when they prophesied that we would face financial meltdown immediately following a vote to Leave the EU didn't know what they were talking about. But let's not worry about the City fat cats; I'm sure that the more pragmatic ones will have reaped the rewards of the upturn in shares post-Brexit. They'll have even more money with which to fund the Tory Party, but I wonder what they will make of May's pledge for the Party to represent more closely the working man in the street, to occupy the centre ground of British Politics? I doubt whether she is seen as being one of their own.

[buctootim]

I advised you three hours ago to stop digging, but I see on my return that you've apparently been trying to dig your way to New Zealand, as you can't afford the air fare because of the weaker £. .

 

Thats like an Allegro advising a Jag not to race him.

[Hockey_saint]

I advised you three hours ago to stop digging, but I see on my return that you've apparently been trying to dig your way to New Zealand, as you can't afford the air fare because of the weaker £.

 

No wonder you feel so aggrieved and would have preferred our continued membership of the EU in order that your holiday would be more affordable. A pity that you didn't have the foresight to change your holiday spending money into US Dollars pre-referendum, but I suspect that you never thought that it possible that your lot would lose against the thicko, racist, little-Englanders.

 

Most of the City fat cats have had to eat large slices of humble pie, as it has come to pass that most of them when they prophesied that we would face financial meltdown immediately following a vote to Leave the EU didn't know what they were talking about. But let's not worry about the City fat cats; I'm sure that the more pragmatic ones will have reaped the rewards of the upturn in shares post-Brexit. They'll have even more money with which to fund the Tory Party, but I wonder what they will make of May's pledge for the Party to represent more closely the working man in the street, to occupy the centre ground of British Politics? I doubt whether she is seen as being one of their own.

 

Good description. An utterly dispicable bunch who think the best way to get along with your neighbours is to insult them. nail on the head westender. Annnd obviously a bunch of spoiled right wing baby boomers living in the past and wishing to ruin the country for the younger, more global generation but you do fit nicely into the football fan stereotype.

Edited 5 October, 2016 by Hockey_saint

[Lord Duckhunter]

I'm still struggling to understand how the Leave campaign put this money into the NHS. Perhaps one of the remoaners can explain the mechanics of it . I always thought that that the chancellor, PM & Health Sec held the levers regarding NHS funding and all 3 voted remain .

 

If Jezza drove round in a battle bus saying " let's employ another million nurses " would you blame him if a Tory government didn't do it , would Jezza be a liar ?

[Hockey_saint]

I'm still struggling to understand how the Leave campaign put this money into the NHS. Perhaps one of the remoaners can explain the mechanics of it . I always thought that that the chancellor, PM & Health Sec held the levers regarding NHS funding and all 3 voted remain .

 

If Jezza drove round in a battle bus saying " let's employ another million nurses " would you blame him if a Tory government didn't do it , would Jezza be a liar ?

 

All voted remain because they knew where the money came from. Side note, funniest thing I heard during the run up was an old man in shirley tell the brexiteer table he was voting to leave "for my kids" I thought "what an old fool". delusional old man, ruining it for his kids more like.

[Wes Tender]

Good description. An utterly dispicable bunch who think the best way to get along with your neighbours is to insult them. nail on the head westender. Annnd obviously a bunch of spoiled right wing baby boomers living in the past and wishing to ruin the country for the younger, more global generation but you do fit nicely into the football fan stereotype.

 

Irony goes right over your head, doesn't it?

 

Once again, the arrogance of the Remainians is breathtaking. They claim to be the only ones who care for the future prosperity of their children and grandchildren. It doesn't penetrate their consciousness that those who voted to Leave the EU could possibly be acting in the best interests of future generations because they see us prospering more from trade with the whole World rather than with the sclerotic declining EU. And how is the younger generation more global when they prefer to trade with just the far more parochial EU, rather than casting their nets outwards to the whole world?

[buctootim]

Irony goes right over your head, doesn't it?

 

Once again, the arrogance of the Remainians is breathtaking. They claim to be the only ones who care for the future prosperity of their children and grandchildren. It doesn't penetrate their consciousness that those who voted to Leave the EU could possibly be acting in the best interests of future generations because they see us prospering more from trade with the whole World rather than with the sclerotic declining EU. And how is the younger generation more global when they prefer to trade with just the far more parochial EU, rather than casting their nets outwards to the whole world?

 

Thank God for Wes, the voice of common sense. All these years we've just been exporting to the EU when we could have been selling to China the US and the rest of the world. Im off to email Glaxo, Jaguar Landrover, Rolls Royce areo and BAe.

[solentstars]

I love brexit the rest of the world can't believe how delusional we are and somehow a weak pound is a sign of strength. We can trade with the rest of the world now unfortunately we are useless when trying to sell in other markets and have a massive productively and investment problems. Devaluation of your currency did not work in the past and is only a short term fix.never mind somehow we will magically become world beaters outside.I find it embarrassing that we are begging for trade deals.

 

Sent from my Be Touch 3 using Tapatalk

[Hockey_saint]

I love brexit the rest of the world can't believe how delusional we are and somehow a weak pound is a sign of strength. We can trade with the rest of the world now unfortunately we are useless when trying to sell in other markets and have a massive productively and investment problems. Devaluation of your currency did not work in the past and is only a short term fix.never mind somehow we will magically become world beaters outside.I find it embarrassing that we are begging for trade deals.

 

Sent from my Be Touch 3 using Tapatalk

 

Indeed. Utterly delusional and living in another age.

[Trader]

All voted remain because they knew where the money came from. Side note, funniest thing I heard during the run up was an old man in shirley tell the brexiteer table he was voting to leave "for my kids" I thought "what an old fool". delusional old man, ruining it for his kids more like.

 

Well I think that old man was spot on.

 

But then I was never a "you're first up against the wall, comrade" type in the 70's.