Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[skintsaint]

31 minutes ago, John B said:

Brexit is the biggest and most absurd waste of money in history,

After the Carrillo signing..

[CB Fry]

Even I have to admit that this is an absolute masterpiece.

https://www.politico.eu/article/why-uk-britain-boris-johnson-must-ditch-the-brexit-withdrawal-agreement-deal/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

 

[badgerx16]

10 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Even I have to admit that this is an absolute masterpiece.

https://www.politico.eu/article/why-uk-britain-boris-johnson-must-ditch-the-brexit-withdrawal-agreement-deal/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

 

But Brexiteers aren't xenophobic, no sir, not at all.

[Weston Super Saint]

17 hours ago, ecuk268 said:

It's nothing to do with changing the result. It's a statistical analysis of the voting pattern.

 

It's a statistical analysis of the voting pattern of 83 people.  Probably about as informative as the views that Soggy gains when he has a chat with his mates down the pub, but certainly not something you would hang your hat on to prove unequivocally that you are right and someone else is wrong....

Edited 13 July, 2020 by Weston Super Saint

[CB Fry]

26 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

But Brexiteers aren't xenophobic, no sir, not at all.

My favourite bit is learning that the withdrawal agreement which

a) Boris negotiated (you people said it couldn't be done....he proved you wrong etc etc)

b) Boris built his entire election campaign around (Get Brexit Done, oven ready deal etc etc)

c) The new house of commons voted through on a landslide, supported by the red wall MPs voted in during said campaign 

THAT withdrawal agreement is apparently Remainers shackling the country. I must have missed Dominic Grieve and Ken Clarke and Hillary Benn celebrating their triumph back then but they must have been delighted after all. Who knew.

 

It's pretty clear whatever happens on Brexit it will always, always, always be someone else's fault.

Maybe I should just be quietly delighted that my side won after all.

Edited 13 July, 2020 by CB Fry

[ecuk268]

9 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

It's a statistical analysis of the voting pattern of 83 people.  Probably about as informative as the views that Soggy gains when he has a chat with his mates down the pub, but certainly not something you would hang your hat on to prove unequivocally that you are right and someone else is wrong....

No, I was referring to my post regarding the breakdown by educational attainment. Those figures were from YouGov who poll thousands in a representative sample.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, ecuk268 said:

No, I was referring to my post regarding the breakdown by educational attainment. Those figures were from YouGov who poll thousands in a representative sample.

Oh, I see, you were referring to your original statement where you didn't want to call anyone thick, but those that voted to leave were all thickos because of their educational attainments.  You've also completely ignored the educational opportunities that have historically been available to previous generations and have based this on modern educational attainment standards and their equivalents.

You've also dismissed the fact that until 1975 it was perfectly legal for universities to deny places for women based purely on their sex - that's roughly half the population (who would have been voters in the referendum aged over 55) for whom there was no possibility of attaining a degree.  If there's no possibility of attaining a degree, is there any point studying for A Levels?

Good job you've not just dismissed several generations calling them 'thickos' based on their education results then!

[ecuk268]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Oh, I see, you were referring to your original statement where you didn't want to call anyone thick, but those that voted to leave were all thickos because of their educational attainments.  You've also completely ignored the educational opportunities that have historically been available to previous generations and have based this on modern educational attainment standards and their equivalents.

You've also dismissed the fact that until 1975 it was perfectly legal for universities to deny places for women based purely on their sex - that's roughly half the population (who would have been voters in the referendum aged over 55) for whom there was no possibility of attaining a degree.  If there's no possibility of attaining a degree, is there any point studying for A Levels?

Good job you've not just dismissed several generations calling them 'thickos' based on their education results then!

Where did I call anyone thick?

I was just pointing out the statistics. I've not drawn any conclusions. 

I was of University age in the late 60's and I know many girls who went to University so your statement about half the population not being able to go is groundless.

[John B]

6 hours ago, skintsaint said:

After the Carrillo signing..

Yes I agree that that signing was probably the worst one in the 60 years I have been following the Saints and is just one of those things

 

But Brexit affects me and my family and makes most of us worse off with no tangible benefits 

[Window Cleaner]

In the 60s I think it was about 2% of the age group that went to University. So about 98 % were denied access because of their educational level anyway. Most young people packed in school at 16 to learn trades or start working their way up the employment level ladder. Most families just couldn't afford for their young people to stay in full time education until they were 21 or 22 years old. There were grants of course but they were never enough to cover the cost.

Then again a couple of A levels in those days gave you access to some really decent jobs in banks, the civil service,town halls and top notch companies.

Edited 13 July, 2020 by Window Cleaner

[ecuk268]

1 hour ago, Window Cleaner said:

In the 60s I think it was about 2% of the age group that went to University. So about 98 % were denied access because of their educational level anyway. Most young people packed in school at 16 to learn trades or start working their way up the employment level ladder. Most families just couldn't afford for their young people to stay in full time education until they were 21 or 22 years old. There were grants of course but they were never enough to cover the cost.

Then again a couple of A levels in those days gave you access to some really decent jobs in banks, the civil service,town halls and top notch companies.

In the early 70's my wife-to-be did 3 years of teacher training in London and managed quite comfortably on her grant.

What percentage of families couldn't afford for their children to stay in education? "Most" is a bit vague.

[ecuk268]

1 hour ago, John B said:

Yes I agree that that signing was probably the worst one in the 60 years I have been following the Saints and is just one of those things

 

But Brexit affects me and my family and makes most of us worse off with no tangible benefits 

But we've got our country back (whatever that means).

[badgerx16]

https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/eu-launches-its-own-shock-and-awe-campaign-early/?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB

[rallyboy]

Thankfully our government has had four years to prepare for this, so there will be no issues.

With the talent in our cabinet I'm sure everything will go swimmingly, and poor old Johnny Foreigner will be as jealous as anything when they see the glorious success we create with Cummings at the helm.

It'll be great when we no longer have unelected nutters making the decisions, giving out contracts to their mates!

We will be the envy of Europe - and we'll continue to lead the world in every field of human endeavour, there is nothing we can learn from anyone else, we're experts in every field.

All we need is belief.

 

 

 

 

And approx £300 billion.

[East Kent Saint]

I wonder how many leave voters will be pleased that 1. They will need medical insurance when travelling to EU or pay privately if they get ill .2. Will mind paying 15% import duty on goods from EU. 3. Will appreciate non EU migrants being given preferable treatment for top jobs in the UK under Patel 's new rules. 4. Will enjoy working in the fields or in Care Homes as they can't employ migrants. 5. Will mind queueing on the M20 while 10k lorries go through the new customs post at Ashford etc etc

[Lord Duckhunter]

I wonder how many years it’ll take some remoaners to get over it. The state of some on here, I reckon some never will. 

[buctootim]

40 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I wonder how many years it’ll take some remoaners to get over it. The state of some on here, I reckon some never will. 

Don't sell yourself short. You've got another 10 years yet of "this is a sell out", "this isn't what 17 million voted for" and "another dripping wet" when it becomes obvious even to you and Wes the whole charade is a farce.    

Edited 13 July, 2020 by buctootim

[buctootim]

6 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Oh, I see, you were referring to your original statement where you didn't want to call anyone thick, but those that voted to leave were all thickos because of their educational attainments.  You've also completely ignored the educational opportunities that have historically been available to previous generations and have based this on modern educational attainment standards and their equivalents.

You've also dismissed the fact that until 1975 it was perfectly legal for universities to deny places for women based purely on their sex - that's roughly half the population (who would have been voters in the referendum aged over 55) for whom there was no possibility of attaining a degree.  If there's no possibility of attaining a degree, is there any point studying for A Levels?

Good job you've not just dismissed several generations calling them 'thickos' based on their education results then!

You do realise its entirely possible to be intelligent but poorly educated and / or ignorant? You're a decent example, not stupid but with no idea about the basic mechanics of many of the subjects you jump into with strong opinions. How you work out probability or confidence intervals for opinion polls / social surveys for example. 

Edited 13 July, 2020 by buctootim

[Weston Super Saint]

10 hours ago, buctootim said:

You do realise its entirely possible to be intelligent but poorly educated and / or ignorant? 

Yes.  It's ecuk that seems to be struggling with this concept.  HTH.

[Tamesaint]

A couple who are friends of my wife and proud Brexiteers are now rather cross after the announcement that data roaming charges could well be re introduced in January. Abolition of data roaming had "nothing to do with the EU" and fears about their re introduction were just "examples of Project Fear" in their eyes.Unfortunately you reap what you sow.

 

Edited 14 July, 2020 by Tamesaint

[hypochondriac]

52 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

A couple who are friends of my wife and proud Brexiteers are now rather cross after the announcement that data roaming charges could well be re introduced in January. Abolition of data roaming had "nothing to do with the EU" and fears about their re introduction were just "examples of Project Fear" in their eyes.Unfortunately you reap what you sow.

 

I had free roaming abroad with three mobile anyway before any agreements so I'd hope that would continue. 

Edit: just checked and three have no plans to change. Seems like every network that has been asked has said similar. Bit of a non story really. 

Edited 14 July, 2020 by hypochondriac

[Wes Tender]

13 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I wonder how many years it’ll take some remoaners to get over it. The state of some on here, I reckon some never will. 

Yes, you're right. Here we are out of the EU and into the negotiations about a trade deal period and some are still bitching on about how unfair it all was over four years ago. Timmy, bet a £50 donation to charity that we would leave with a Norway style deal, but he still can't bring himself to accept that it will not ever happen and be honourable enough to cough up.

Others remind me of Corporal Fraser, availing themselves of every opportunity to tell us that the UK is doomed. In the same way that most of the project fear prophecies that would follow a vote to leave didn't materialise, I suggest that the sensible course to follow is one of wait and see.

[Tamesaint]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I had free roaming abroad with three mobile anyway before any agreements so I'd hope that would continue. 

Edit: just checked and three have no plans to change. Seems like every network that has been asked has said similar. Bit of a non story 

I am sure that at the moment they "have no plans to reintroduce charges". Lets see what happens.

[John B]

15 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I wonder how many years it’ll take some remoaners to get over it. The state of some on here, I reckon some never will. 

Most remain voters have some idea of the harm done to the UK on leaving but Brexiteers cant even describe what the benefits of leaving actually are.

Brexiteers are moaning about the need for extra parking in Kent as well as the extra costs to go to Europe with regard to Car and Health insurance depreciation of the pound and increase times involved in going through customs 

[Tamesaint]

edit

 

Edited 14 July, 2020 by Tamesaint

[Tamesaint]

3 minutes ago, John B said:

Most remain voters have some idea of the harm done to the UK on leaving but Brexiteers cant even describe what the benefits of leaving actually are.

Brexiteers are moaning about the need for extra parking in Kent as well as the extra costs to go to Europe with regard to Car and Health insurance depreciation of the pound and increase times involved in going through customs 

"We got our country back".

What more do we need ?? 

 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Tamesaint said:

I am sure that at the moment they "have no plans to reintroduce charges". Lets see what happens.

Three mobiles usp was that "feel at home" meant they didn't charge in a number of countries before roaming charges were abolished. They've said they won't be changing it whatever happens so I can't imagine they would do. Anyway, it's not really worth complaining about until it actually happens. Seems a strange thing for someone who voted leave to get annoyed about when nothing has actually happened and it looks more likely than not that charges won't be coming. 

Edited 14 July, 2020 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, John B said:

Most remain voters have some idea of the harm done to the UK on leaving but Brexiteers cant even describe what the benefits of leaving actually are.

Brexiteers are moaning about the need for extra parking in Kent as well as the extra costs to go to Europe with regard to Car and Health insurance depreciation of the pound and increase times involved in going through customs 

Are they? Where? 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, Tamesaint said:

I am sure that at the moment they "have no plans to reintroduce charges". Lets see what happens.

Surely if you're travelling to the EU for work you'll use your work phone so if there are charges, someone else will pay.

If you're travelling to the EU for a holiday, here's a thought, why not switch the mobiles off and enjoy some time off?  Who knows what you'll discover.

Having said that, pretty sure the world has moved on from the time of roaming charges when mobile companies could fleece their customers without complaint.  The first mobile company that tries to re-introduce them is likely to be signing their own death warrant!  Even if they all decided to introduce them at the same time, the development of the internet has far surpassed roaming charges with pretty much every pub, restaurant, cafe and beach bar across Europe offering free wi-fi, people will just use internet based calling / texting and not their mobile data plans - well apart from your wife's mates who don't appear to be the most colourful crayons in the box.  (pretty sure Jeff's wife also used to have a couple who were friends and voted to leave, Jeff didn't want anything more to do with them after that though!  Must be just a coincidence )

Any more 'project fear' anecdotes?

[Weston Super Saint]

19 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Are they? Where? 

Shhh, don't let a good moan about brexiteers be ruined asking for actual evidence!

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Surely if you're travelling to the EU for work you'll use your work phone so if there are charges, someone else will pay.

If you're travelling to the EU for a holiday, here's a thought, why not switch the mobiles off and enjoy some time off?  Who knows what you'll discover.

Having said that, pretty sure the world has moved on from the time of roaming charges when mobile companies could fleece their customers without complaint.  The first mobile company that tries to re-introduce them is likely to be signing their own death warrant!  Even if they all decided to introduce them at the same time, the development of the internet has far surpassed roaming charges with pretty much every pub, restaurant, cafe and beach bar across Europe offering free wi-fi, people will just use internet based calling / texting and not their mobile data plans - well apart from your wife's mates who don't appear to be the most colourful crayons in the box.  (pretty sure Jeff's wife also used to have a couple who were friends and voted to leave, Jeff didn't want anything more to do with them after that though!  Must be just a coincidence )

Any more 'project fear' anecdotes?

I'm pretty sure they will probably just introduce any additional costs via stealth by raising the cost of contracts slightly. I can't see any roaming charges being tacked back on like you said. 

[Weston Super Saint]

On 18/08/2019 at 22:55, Unbelievable Jeff said:

 

To be fair, I only know 4 people who voted leave (or 4 people who I know for sure have voted that way). 2 people are family, and I see them very rarely, but they live in Bradford and were concerned about the strain the "pa**s" were putting on the NHS. The other are two are some of the missus friends from school, who take their kids to cricket on a Friday night, but won't buy second hand cricket equipment from Ebay as they don't want their kid to be wearing some "****ing w**s" helmet.

 

The only other leavers outside of JOB's radio show and TV I have 100% certainty that voted leave are on here, and as we've seen over and over from people like Wes etc, they are clearly racists. Perhaps not all leave voters are racists, but the arguments on here are so poor that it must be the only reason.

The new forum has a much better search tool than the last one did

[buctootim]

22 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm pretty sure they will probably just introduce any additional costs via stealth by raising the cost of contracts slightly. I can't see any roaming charges being tacked back on like you said. 

 

27 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Surely if you're travelling to the EU for work you'll use your work phone so if there are charges, someone else will pay.

If you're travelling to the EU for a holiday, here's a thought, why not switch the mobiles off and enjoy some time off?  Who knows what you'll discover.

Any more 'project fear' anecdotes?

Additional roaming charges were outlawed by EU legislation. With Britain out that legislation wont apply anymore and companies will be free to charge what they want - and roaming charges were highly highly profitable.  If they did it before, why wouldn't they do it again once they are able to?  - not immediately because they won't want to look 'political' but they will come back in some shape or form       

Edited 14 July, 2020 by buctootim

[Lord Duckhunter]

5 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

A couple who are friends of my wife and proud Brexiteers are now rather cross after the announcement that data roaming charges could well be re introduced in January. Abolition of data roaming had "nothing to do with the EU" and fears about their re introduction were just "examples of Project Fear" in their eyes.Unfortunately you reap what you sow.

 

#didn'thappen

[hypochondriac]

11 minutes ago, buctootim said:

 

Additional roaming charges were outlawed by EU legislation. With Britain out that legislation wont apply anymore and companies will be free to charge what they want - and roaming charges were highly highly profitable.  If they did it before, why wouldn't they do it again once they are able to - not immediately because they won't want to look 'political' but they will come back in some shape or form       

My point was that three mobile didn't have roaming charges before the agreement so I don't see why they would suddenly introduce them now. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Good job there weren’t mobile phones back in the day. Mahatma Gandhi would have had no chance of securing independence if Indians had to pay a few more rupee to talk pony to their mates.

[buctootim]

13 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

My point was that three mobile didn't have roaming charges before the agreement so I don't see why they would suddenly introduce them now. 

Yeah that's not true either. The lies about the supposed benefits of Brexit and that the disadvantages aren't real is all you have. Try making a compelling case based on honesty.

 Three's charges from 2015 http://www.three.co.uk/termspdf/CHS_Price_Guide_021215.pdf

[Wes Tender]

2 hours ago, John B said:

Most remain voters have some idea of the harm done to the UK on leaving but Brexiteers cant even describe what the benefits of leaving actually are.

 

I agree with all of this, so this a simple way to rebut your assertion that most leavers don't know the benefits of leaving. Undoubtedly many had their own specific reasons and it is incredibly arrogant to assert people didn't know why they wanted to leave.

[buctootim]

4 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Good job there weren’t mobile phones back in the day. Mahatma Gandhi would have had no chance of securing independence if Indians had to pay a few more rupee to talk pony to their mates.

A few years ago I came back with an £850 roaming bill after a work trip to Vienna. 

[hypochondriac]

22 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Yeah that's not true either. The lies about the supposed benefits of Brexit and that the disadvantages aren't real is all you have. Try making a compelling case based on honesty.

 Three's charges from 2015 http://www.three.co.uk/termspdf/CHS_Price_Guide_021215.pdf

Odd that you think I'm discussing brexit. All I've said is that three mobile had feel at home before the roaming charges were abolished which had no roaming charges for a number of countries for the majority of contracts. You can say its a lie if you like but I know they had it because my wife worked on the campaign and I used it personally myself when I was abroad. 

 

Edit: in fact here's an article about it from 2016. Still convinced I'm "lying"? 

https://www.androidcentral.com/threes-feel-home-inclusive-roaming-expands-24-more-countries

Edited 14 July, 2020 by hypochondriac

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, buctootim said:

 

Additional roaming charges were outlawed by EU legislation. With Britain out that legislation wont apply anymore and companies will be free to charge what they want - and roaming charges were highly highly profitable.  If they did it before, why wouldn't they do it again once they are able to?  - not immediately because they won't want to look 'political' but they will come back in some shape or form       

And if they do, no doubt people will switch to using internet based apps to avoid roaming charges as mentioned previously.  

It's also possible to avoid roaming charges with a little bit of thought.  I've owned a mobile since 1993 and travelled extensively throughout Europe and beyond in that time.  Not once have I paid a penny in roaming charges.  It's really not that difficult to do.

[buctootim]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Odd that you think I'm discussing brexit. All I've said is that three mobile had feel at home before the roaming charges were abolished which had no roaming charges for a number of countries for the majority of contracts. You can say its a lie if you like but I know they had it because my wife worked on the campaign and I used it personally myself when I was abroad. 

 

Edit: in fact here's an article about it from 2016. Still convinced I'm "lying"? 

https://www.androidcentral.com/threes-feel-home-inclusive-roaming-expands-24-more-countries

Yes absolutely still lying. Lying about it being Brexit related and lying about Three's policy. The EU progressively capped roaming charges from 2007 until the decision to fully ban them was made in 2016. Shortly after that 3 announced the end of their roaming charges in the EU  - totally coincidentally enough.

The cost of roaming data costs in the EU in the past ten years (source European Commission

 

 

Cost of 1 MB	Year
€6	2007
70 cents	2012
20 cents	2015
Domestic price + five cents	2016
Domestic price	2017

 

 

 

Edited 14 July, 2020 by buctootim

[buctootim]

44 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

And if they do, no doubt people will switch to using internet based apps to avoid roaming charges as mentioned previously.  

It's also possible to avoid roaming charges with a little bit of thought.  I've owned a mobile since 1993 and travelled extensively throughout Europe and beyond in that time.  Not once have I paid a penny in roaming charges.  It's really not that difficult to do.

Internet based apps run on air not data dontchaknow. Not once in 27 years have you ever used google maps in your car, made a call from a riverbank or a mountaintop. In 27 years you have only ever switched on your phone in a cafe with free wifi - even long before any of the free apps existed. Wow. So prescient.    

[Weston Super Saint]

15 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Internet based apps run on air not data dontchaknow. Not once in 27 years have you ever used google maps in your car, made a call from a riverbank or a mountaintop. In 27 years you have only ever switched on your phone in a cafe with free wifi - even long before any of the free apps existed. Wow. So prescient.    

You know they've printed maps on paper for many years right?  You also know that google maps uses GPS rather than data, right?  Granted you need to plan a route and that will need data, but you can do that before you leave, connected to wifi

I've never made a call from a riverbank or mountaintop (whilst abroad), no.  When doing those things I've been on holiday, with the people who I would want to share the experience with so no need to make a call.  I've taken pictures whilst there though, but your phone doesn't need data or wifi for that.

No need to be bitter because you got stung for roaming charges because you didn't know how to turn roaming off, it's OK, we all thought you were a bit dim anyway so no-one thinks any less of you.

[ecuk268]

23 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

No need to be bitter because you got stung for roaming charges because you didn't know how to turn roaming off, it's OK, we all thought you were a bit dim anyway so no-one thinks any less of you.

You were complaining about me calling people "thick", even though I didn't say that, and now you're calling another poster "a bit dim".

Touch of hypocrisy there.

[hypochondriac]

I love this argument based entirely on hypotheticals. Maybe let's revisit it when something significant actually happens like if all the networks actually introduce roaming charges. So far they don't have any plans to so I fail to see why its of such interest to people desperate to point to it as a negative of leaving. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

If Donald Trump promises to abolish roaming charges for UK citizens, I’ll vote to become the 51st state. I’ll be able to travel to a Florida and post on here without costing me a fortune. That’s well worth giving up our independence for. 

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, ecuk268 said:

You were complaining about me calling people "thick", even though I didn't say that, and now you're calling another poster "a bit dim".

Touch of hypocrisy there.

Meh, I guess we can consider it 'what goes around, comes around' where dim tim is concerned

22 hours ago, buctootim said:

You do realise its entirely possible to be intelligent but poorly educated and / or ignorant? You're a decent example, not stupid but with no idea about the basic mechanics of many of the subjects you jump into with strong opinions. How you work out probability or confidence intervals for opinion polls / social surveys for example. 

[Tamesaint]

5 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

#didn'thappen

Pony, duckie. Complete pony.

[Tamesaint]

7 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Meh, I guess we can consider it 'what goes around, comes around' where dim tim is concerned

If I were you I wouldnt go around calling anyone dim.

Remind us again how Japan is just a  small  island  or how many zlotys there are to the pound. 

Why do you think you are known as the village idiot?