Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[badgerx16]

30 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

You've been very quiet of late, Gavyn, but I see that you are trying to make up for lost time in your usual arrogant, infantile insult mode.

Hang on, I thought real names were now verbotten on the forum.

Edited 1 July, 2020 by badgerx16

[Lord Duckhunter]

6 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

"...basically was the jews being marched off to concentration camps...". Many people saw the Farage poster and came to the conclusion that the analogy was fair, and that the emotional response was exactly what Farage intended.

That says more about you and others warped mind, than about Nigel. But then again sections of the left are obsessed with Hitler & Jews.
 

I’d imagine most people thought it was a picture indicating the  hundreds of thousands of migrants queuing up to get into the EU. I would have thought stating “breaking point” also enforced this view . Unless you really believe Nigel thinks the way to ease this breaking point is to gas people. You’ve lost the plot man. He wanted to stop them coming in, that’s all it indicated to most normal people. 

Edited 1 July, 2020 by Lord Duckhunter

[Lord Duckhunter]

7 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said:

Don't worry, he's not particularly bright.

Fuck me, Keith Richard will be posting in a minute calling me a druggie. 

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

That says more about you and others warped mind, than about Nigel. But then again sections of the left are obsessed with Hitler & Jews.
 

I’d imagine most people thought it was a picture indicating the  hundreds of thousands of migrants queuing up to get into the EU. I would have thought stating “breaking point” also enforced this view . Unless you really believe Nigel thinks the way to ease this breaking point is to gas people. You’ve lost the plot man. 

Of course I don't think Farage would think that, but I do believe that he is a nasty xenophobe who tapped into a natural latent isolationist tendency in part of the British population to satisfy his own self aggrandisment.

[Wes Tender]

9 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

"...basically was the jews being marched off to concentration camps...". Many people saw the Farage poster and came to the conclusion that the analogy was fair, and that the emotional response was exactly what Farage intended.

Anybody who saw the Farage photo and believed that there was an analogy to be made between that and streams of Jews being herded towards a concentration camp is a bit wrong in the head.

[Hockey_saint]

5 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fuck me, Keith Richard will be posting in a minute calling me a druggie. 

Those who shout about the size or lack of (I didn't start this personal little insult before you chime in again) intellect tend to not have much about them in the first place.

 

You don't know me and you don't know my level of education besides which, he didn't answer the points I raised and just started mud slinging; as I say, very childish.

[badgerx16]

5 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

Anybody who saw the Farage photo and believed that there was an analogy to be made between that and streams of Jews being herded towards a concentration camp is a bit wrong in the head.

So now you accept that the still frame was jews being 'herded' and not refugees 'fleeing the tyranny' of the German army.

Edited 1 July, 2020 by badgerx16

[Wes Tender]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

So now you accept that the still frame was jews being 'herded' and not refugees fleeing the German army.

I hadn't read the thread properly before that. Having done so, I responded on that basis, and it is even more idiotic to make comparisons between the two photos because of the actual context.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

Of course I don't think Farage would think that, but I do believe that he is a nasty xenophobe who tapped into a natural latent isolationist tendency in part of the British population to satisfy his own self aggrandisment.

I think he just wanted to leave the Eu. Like George Galloway & Clare Fox did. 
 

Euro sceptics on the right spent years arguing about what sub section X in clause Y of treaty Z meant for the UK and nobody cared. Tony Benn & the left leavers (including one J Corbyn) we’re arguing against the constraints it put on national governments and that it was a bosses & big business club. Again getting nowhere. Nigel’s genius was to state the bleeding obvious. Anyone from the EU could come and live here and there’s not a damn thing our Government can do about it. 

[Hockey_saint]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I think he just wanted to leave the Eu. Like George Galloway & Clare Fox did. 
 

Euro sceptics on the right spent years arguing about what sub section X in clause Y of treaty Z meant for the UK and nobody cared. Tony Benn & the left leavers (including one J Corbyn) we’re arguing against the constraints it put on national governments and that it was a bosses & big business club. Again getting nowhere. Nigel’s genius was to state the bleeding obvious. Anyone from the EU could come and live here and there’s not a damn thing our Government can do about it. 

So you agree that was a major aspect as to why we left. Just wondered as you seemed a bit quiet when Saint Clark was at pains to point out it wasn't about mass EU migration.

[Wes Tender]

14 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said:

So you agree that was a major aspect as to why we left. Just wondered as you seemed a bit quiet when Saint Clark was at pains to point out it wasn't about mass EU migration.

Why are all you remoaners bellyaching on and on like a stuck record over something that has taken place four years ago, that you are powerless to change until there are grounds for another referendum on whether we should rejoin the EU at some stage in the distant future? Get over it.

[Hockey_saint]

1 minute ago, Wes Tender said:

Why are all you remoaners bellyaching on and on like a stuck record over something that has taken place four years ago, that you are powerless to change until there are grounds for another referendum on whether we should rejoin the EU at some stage in the distant future? Get over it.

Sad, very sad. Let's wait and see what leaving brings shall we? November will be interesting if Farage's great mate Trump loses.

[Wes Tender]

Just now, Hockey_saint said:

Sad, very sad. Let's wait and see what leaving brings shall we? November will be interesting if Farage's great mate Trump loses.

I agree that it's sad, individuals whining about events of four years ago, raking over old coals that they cannot alter. Suggesting that we wait and see how events turn out is the only sensible stance that you've adopted so far. No doubt as a patriot, you'll be wishing for the best outcome for the country after the 31st December, rather than hoping things go badly just so that you can crow that you told us so, won't you?

Me, I'm not that bothered about American politics. I read an article the other day suggesting that the UK's trade position with the USA would be enhanced if Biden were to be elected. As flawed as Trump is, Biden comes across as being on the edge of senility, so either of them are a worry in their different ways.

[Hockey_saint]

1 minute ago, Wes Tender said:

I agree that it's sad, individuals whining about events of four years ago, raking over old coals that they cannot alter. Suggesting that we wait and see how events turn out is the only sensible stance that you've adopted so far. No doubt as a patriot, you'll be wishing for the best outcome for the country after the 31st December, rather than hoping things go badly just so that you can crow that you told us so, won't you?

Me, I'm not that bothered about American politics. I read an article the other day suggesting that the UK's trade position with the USA would be enhanced if Biden were to be elected. As flawed as Trump is, Biden comes across as being on the edge of senility, so either of them are a worry in their different ways.

*back of the queue was the phrase.....it incensed gammons like you....probably didn't help it came from a "gentleman of colour" either.

 

There's optimism and there's blind optimism....Not a big fan of attaching my optimism to people like Michael Gove or Donald Trump probably akin to Johnson's ex-wife hoping he wouldn't run off with some hanger-on half his age and leave his kids behind....what a classy bunch.

[Hockey_saint]

I've actually read that the Brexit team are a bit worried about being damned if Trump wins and even worse if Biden does. What with the democrats busy with an EU trade deal and asking for us to "get to the  back of the queue" Obama's....and no doubt his old VP's words now too and as far as Trump goes....well, no doubt our deal with him would look akin to a Hostel movie.

[Wes Tender]

3 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said:

*back of the queue was the phrase.....it incensed gammons like you....probably didn't help it came from a "gentleman of colour" either.

 

There's optimism and there's blind optimism....Not a big fan of attaching my optimism to people like Michael Gove or Donald Trump probably akin to Johnson's ex-wife hoping he wouldn't run off with some hanger-on half his age and leave his kids behind....what a classy bunch.

You're all over the place. Who said anything about Obama? Thanks for the Gammon insult and the irony of you calling others childish for name-calling. And what has Boris' private life got to do with the current debate? But as you're flinging names out of the blue into the discussion, returning to the title of the thread, that David Frost is one hell of good negotiator, isn't he?

[Hockey_saint]

Just now, Wes Tender said:

You're all over the place. Who said anything about Obama? Thanks for the Gammon insult and the irony of you calling others childish for name-calling. And what has Boris' private life got to do with the current debate? But as you're flinging names out of the blue into the discussion, returning to the title of the thread, that David Frost is one hell of good negotiator, isn't he?

You called me a remoaner....did you think that was a free pass?

I specifically mentioned the prospects of a problematic US trade deal come November, mention Obama, Trump, Biden, Gove and Johnson and am everywhere? Get a grip man; you're probably turning pink.

[Saint_clark]

45 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said:

Sad, very sad. Let's wait and see what leaving brings shall we? November will be interesting if Farage's great mate Trump loses.

Yes, can we please wait and see and shut the fuck up with all the constant negativity and fear mongering in the mean time? Thanks. 

[Hockey_saint]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

Yes, can we please wait and see and shut the fuck up with all the constant negativity and fear mongering in the mean time? Thanks. 

Calling an incompetent racist an incompetent racist isn't negativity, it's reality. Fear mongering would be putting the frighteners up lots of old people about an invasion of Turkish and EU types....oh, he did that...read above so why dont you shut the fuck up.

[Saint_clark]

10 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said:

Calling an incompetent racist an incompetent racist isn't negativity, it's reality. Fear mongering would be putting the frighteners up lots of old people about an invasion of Turkish and EU types....oh, he did that...read above so why dont you shut the fuck up.

😂🤦‍♂️

[Hockey_saint]

Meanwhile he's offered citizenship to 3 million Chinese :D....Genius. I bet that ends well.

[Lord Duckhunter]

5 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said:

Meanwhile he's offered citizenship to 3 million Chinese :D....Genius. I bet that ends well.

Proving he’s not racist. 

[Hockey_saint]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Proving he’s not racist. 

Not really...gotta keep the vestiges of empire going haven't we? He'd probably already proven to a lot his "non-racist" cred by pointing out his great grandfather was Turkish but it's never quite that simple. You're aware as I am the influx of EU migrants played a reasonable role in Brexit so what does he think 3 million will do for his supporters? It's good...no, it's a very good thing in theory but let's wait until there's an extra 3 million Chinese people here.

[Wes Tender]

1 hour ago, Hockey_saint said:

I've actually read that the Brexit team are a bit worried about being damned if Trump wins and even worse if Biden does. What with the democrats busy with an EU trade deal and asking for us to "get to the  back of the queue" Obama's....and no doubt his old VP's words now too and as far as Trump goes....well, no doubt our deal with him would look akin to a Hostel movie.

I believe that I read about it on Conservative Home. You probably read about it in the Guardian, The Not Independent or the Mirror. Which is more likely to represent accurately the views of a Conservative Government in your opinion?

Good luck to the Democrats wanting a trade deal with the EU if they get elected. Whatever happened to the last lot of negotiations between them? Do you think that in order to get one, the EU will have to accept chlorine washed chicken, or hormone fed beef? Will they have to open up their health services to USA pharmaceutical competition? 🤣

It would probably get so far, and then the Walloons would probably veto it.

[Hockey_saint]

4 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

I believe that I read about it on Conservative Home. You probably read about it in the Guardian, The Not Independent or the Mirror. Which is more likely to represent accurately the views of a Conservative Government in your opinion?

Good luck to the Democrats wanting a trade deal with the EU if they get elected. Whatever happened to the last lot of negotiations between them? Do you think that in order to get one, the EU will have to accept chlorine washed chicken, or hormone fed beef? Will they have to open up their health services to USA pharmaceutical competition? 🤣

It would probably get so far, and then the Walloons would probably veto it.

I read it in the Washington Post actually. Always a good read when in McLean.

 

But in answer to your question, the size of the EU block would probably prevent such a deal being so one-sided....it's always better in a group.

Edited 1 July, 2020 by Hockey_saint

[The Kraken]

Freedom of movement is over! Except if you’re from Hong Kong; on you come, all of you.
 

The fall out from this should be amusing.

[Hockey_saint]

5 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Freedom of movement is over! Except if you’re from Hong Kong; on you come, all of you.
 

The fall out from this should be amusing.

Thing is, Johnson has never said he didn't want mass migration "from the colonies" in fact, he's been encouraging it with offers to India and such....just not from the EU but I'm pretty sure he knows a large number of his followers either don't understand that and don't realise it was mass migration from places like India they were moaning about before the EU became the latest target (as always the popularist that he is). That's the thing about hate....there's always going to be someone (and they're just lining up the new fall guys in advance).

Edited 1 July, 2020 by Hockey_saint

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Freedom of movement is over! Except if you’re from Hong Kong; on you come, all of you.
 

The fall out from this should be amusing.

Can you really not see the obligation we have to the people of HK compared to Romania or Hungry? 

[Hockey_saint]

6 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Can you really not see the obligation we have to the people of HK compared to Romania or Hungry? 

They're Chinese now...we've got no ties guv.

(this was in jest in case you take that literally)

Edited 1 July, 2020 by Hockey_saint

[The Kraken]

2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Can you really not see the obligation we have to the people of HK compared to Romania or Hungry? 

I can, yes.

[hypochondriac]

Just now, The Kraken said:

I can, yes.

Personally I think we have a responsibility to the people of Hong Kong that we don't have to other countries. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Remoaners who’ve spent years calling leavers racist, now moaning that foreigners are being allowed to settle. You couldn’t make it up. 
 

Remember this.....Taking back control. The democratically elected Government have decided on this policy. They have control over every part of the immigration policy, if the people don’t like it, they can elect a different Government. They kept being told it wasn’t about keeping Johnny Foreginer out, perhaps they’ll listen now.  

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said:

They're Chinese now...we've got no ties guv.

You’re fast becoming my favourite poster. Legend....keep it up. 

[Saint_clark]

3 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said:

They're Chinese now...we've got no ties guv.

That's you saying that. Johnson and the conservatives clearly don't think that. Who is the heartless racist exactly? 

[Saint_clark]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Remoaners who’ve spent years calling leavers racist, now moaning that foreigners are being allowed to settle. You couldn’t make it up. 
 

Remember this.....Taking back control. The democratically elected Government have decided on this policy. They have control over every part of the immigration policy, if the people don’t like it, they can elect a different Government. They kept being told it wasn’t about keeping Johnny Foreginer out, perhaps they’ll listen now.  

It's crazy isn't it. As soon as it's a Tory enforced mass migration it becomes a bad thing. 

[Hockey_saint]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

You’re fast becoming my favourite poster. Legend....keep it up. 

Knew you'd take that seriously.

 

The politicians used a large number of their followers xenophobia. That doesn't automatically make the politicians xenophobic. Just opportunists and god everyone knows the former Remainer Boris is one of those.

[The Kraken]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

You’re fast becoming my favourite poster. Legend....keep it up. 

I think you miss my sentiments. Personally I’m glad BoJo has done it. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 minute ago, The Kraken said:

I think you miss my sentiments. Personally I’m glad BoJo has done it. 

It was the right thing to do, regardless of whether we were in or out of the EU. 

[Hockey_saint]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It was the right thing to do, regardless of whether we were in or out of the EU. 

I wouldn't be surprised if some agreements were made with places like Australia and such; I mean, it's good in principal but along the lines it could cause more of the same.

[Lord Duckhunter]

6 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said:

I wouldn't be surprised if some agreements were made with places like Australia and such; I mean, it's good in principal but along the lines it could cause more of the same.

FoM only becomes an issue when countries that have a far lower standard of living are involved. FoM between the 6 original EU countries & maybe Sweden, Denmark, Finland & Spain wouldn’t be a problem at all, as the net figure would probably be close to zero. 
 

I have a son working in Aus & have lived abroad myself, so would welcome FoM between certain countries. 

[Hockey_saint]

2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

FoM only becomes an issue when countries that have a far lower standard of living are involved. FoM between the 6 original EU countries & maybe Sweden, Denmark, Finland & Spain wouldn’t be a problem at all, as the net figure would probably be close to zero. 
 

I have a son working in Aus & have lived abroad myself, so would welcome FoM between certain countries. 

Yep, I agree. That was one of the main issues with the EU was the lack of bringing economic parity to the states before bringing them in because then there would be no reason for as many to come as have from the A8. I think Australia would be a reasonable partner too as they have quite a Chinese community already....at least from what I noticed working there also.

Edited 1 July, 2020 by Hockey_saint

[Wes Tender]

13 hours ago, Hockey_saint said:

I read it in the Washington Post actually. Always a good read when in McLean.

 

But in answer to your question, the size of the EU block would probably prevent such a deal being so one-sided....it's always better in a group.

The Washington Post! 🤣 They'll definitely know far better than Conservative Home what the Brexit team's thoughts are on whether Trump or Biden is elected as the next president. Not.

And as the EU took over 8 years to agree a trade deal with Canada, how long do you think that it will take them to complete one with the USA?

[Hockey_saint]

27 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

The Washington Post! 🤣 They'll definitely know far better than Conservative Home what the Brexit team's thoughts are on whether Trump or Biden is elected as the next president. Not.

And as the EU took over 8 years to agree a trade deal with Canada, how long do you think that it will take them to complete one with the USA?

They have a reasonable team with contacts with the embassy so I'd assume they probably know the inner workings than you with your little Brexity rants.

[Wes Tender]

3 hours ago, Hockey_saint said:

They have a reasonable team with contacts with the embassy so I'd assume they probably know the inner workings than you with your little Brexity rants.

It isn't a question of somebody at the British Embassy in Washington knowing more than me about our position on the outcome of trade talks with the EU, and it is a ridiculous comparison to draw. If you care to read my post again, I was asking you whether some Yank newspaper would be a better source than Conservative Home when it came to having an accurate idea of the Government's opinion on whether they stood a better chance of getting a UK/USA trade deal with Trump or Biden as president. To simplify, would the Conservative Home website have a better insight into Government thinking than some American newspaper? The clue is in the name of each entity.

I note that you have avoided answering the last question. How many years do you reckon for an EU/USA trade deal?

 

 

[East Kent Saint]

The migrant thing has kind of petered out now apart from a mention of boat people landing in Kent . It is more concerning where we will be going with Brexit next year. Cheap imports of food could destroy our farmers just when Cov19 means we need more food security. Plus Boris seems to have forgotten all the promises about maintaining standards. I suspect we will continue to slide down the rich country list having gone from 4th to 6th already and seen as easy pickings now we are not backed by the large trade block of the EU that Putin and Trump want to break up.

[Hockey_saint]

8 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

The migrant thing has kind of petered out now apart from a mention of boat people landing in Kent . It is more concerning where we will be going with Brexit next year. Cheap imports of food could destroy our farmers just when Cov19 means we need more food security. Plus Boris seems to have forgotten all the promises about maintaining standards. I suspect we will continue to slide down the rich country list having gone from 4th to 6th already and seen as easy pickings now we are not backed by the large trade block of the EU that Putin and Trump want to break up.

I don't think he's forgotten. As I say, Boris is only interested in himself.

[East Kent Saint]

When we joined the European Economic Community with a 2/3rds majority of voters that actually voted , free movement etc wasn’t on the adgenda . That happened in later agreements IIRC.

[Hockey_saint]

1 hour ago, Wes Tender said:

It isn't a question of somebody at the British Embassy in Washington knowing more than me about our position on the outcome of trade talks with the EU, and it is a ridiculous comparison to draw. If you care to read my post again, I was asking you whether some Yank newspaper would be a better source than Conservative Home when it came to having an accurate idea of the Government's opinion on whether they stood a better chance of getting a UK/USA trade deal with Trump or Biden as president. To simplify, would the Conservative Home website have a better insight into Government thinking than some American newspaper? The clue is in the name of each entity.

I note that you have avoided answering the last question. How many years do you reckon for an EU/USA trade deal?

 

 

 

The point is that the main thing your side were complaining about was that Obama pointed out that the UK would have "wait at the back of the queue" so yep, the US/EU might take a while...we'd be waiting for that to end so you'd hope they'd be quick but on the flip side, if we rush thru ours then no doubt it's going to be rubbsh.

[Hockey_saint]

1 minute ago, East Kent Saint said:

When we joined the European Economic Community with a 2/3rds majority of voters that actually voted , free movement etc wasn’t on the adgenda . That happened in later agreements IIRC.

Yeah, you're right but then that'd be because most of the signees economically similar to us (didn't stop us heading off to West Germany in the early 80's though). I think I've agreed above that the main problem for the EU was, in their rush to expand and enlarge, they'd not taken into account the economies of the A8 countries and how, if their wage levels were so low in their home state, they'd no doubt use the free movement to work here. I think free movement was there, just not a big issue when you're dealing with similarly equal states.

[Lord Duckhunter]

13 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said:

 

The point is that the main thing your side were complaining about was that Obama pointed out that the UK would have "wait at the back of the queue" so yep, the US/EU might take a while...we'd be waiting for that to end so you'd hope they'd be quick but on the flip side, if we rush thru ours then no doubt it's going to be rubbsh.

Anyone with a slight knowledge of Americans will know the words were drafted for him. Queue is the clue, it would have been line, had a American written them. 
 

The best analysis I heard was that Biden won’t insist on Agriculture being a major part of any deal, unlike Trump. But that Ireland will be an issue if he wins. If the general consensus  is Boris has stitched up the Irish, they’ll struggle to get a deal with Biden. 

My opinion, for what it’s worth, is domestically it’ll be better to deal with a Biden White House. Trump could propose the greatest free trade deal known to man, that’ll benefit the UK taxpayers like no other, and the soft arsed remoaners will still kick up a fuss and cry about it. Trump deranged syndrome, is as widespread as Boris deranged syndrome.