Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Jonnyboy]

Matt Ridley in the Times. Spot on as usual:

 

Now we just need a JC lead government so this "bonanza" actually benefits the poorest, especially seeing as a large % of them voted for Brexit.

[Hockey_saint]

Now we just need a JC lead government so this "bonanza" actually benefits the poorest, especially seeing as a large % of them voted for Brexit.

 

That's the thing isn't it? the largest percentage of the poorest who voted to leave, live in towns heavily funded by the EU.....Insane. Where do they think their money is going to come from now? I mean, sure vote leave if you wish and as I say, there are merits to doing so, but don't cut your nose off despite your face!!

[Whitey Grandad]

No doubt you will be happy to provide links to the articles that led you to these conclusions; I couldn't find anything particularly that could lead me to them. So the Chancellor puts more emphasis on trade over immigration and the Secretary of State for International Trade and President of the Board of Trade prioritises immigration over trade. I'm inclined towards this being a difference of opinion over priorities rather than a split, although I can understand that you Remainians like to clutch at straws.

 

It has already been stated many times that the Government is not going to lay out its proposals on how it will negotiate a trade deal with the EU before Article 50 is triggered, so any little snippets like these are just opinions, not policy. What has been made crystal clear by the PM, is that we will not accept the free movement of peoples as part of any trade deal.

Once Article 50 is triggered it doesn't matter what we want. It will be take it or leave it.

[Whitey Grandad]

Matt Ridley in the Times. Spot on as usual:

Matt Ridley lives in a world of his own. It begins with 'Cloud' and ends with 'Land' and in the middle are a load of cuckoos.

[Wade Garrett]

That's the thing isn't it? the largest percentage of the poorest who voted to leave, live in towns heavily funded by the EU.....Insane. Where do they think their money is going to come from now? I mean, sure vote leave if you wish and as I say, there are merits to doing so, but don't cut your nose off despite your face!!

 

Funded by money we pay the EU.

[Hockey_saint]

Funded by money we pay the EU.

 

You truly think that money will be used on them? Perhaps £350 million of it each day will be used on the NHS. Come on, get real, we don't donate THAT much to the EU.

[Verbal]

Now we just need a JC lead government so this "bonanza" actually benefits the poorest, especially seeing as a large % of them voted for Brexit.

 

Laughable. Your dear leader has opted for the utterly absurd position of demanding to pay the price of Brexit - free movement of labour - without the prize - the single market. All you fawning cultists have to look forward to, in the parallel universe in which Corbyn wins an election, is Brexit as Venezuela.

[Jonnyboy]

Laughable. Your dear leader has opted for the utterly absurd position of demanding to pay the price of Brexit - free movement of labour - without the prize - the single market. All you fawning cultists have to look forward to, in the parallel universe in which Corbyn wins an election, is Brexit as Venezuela.

 

You don't have to whisper socialism anymore Verbal, come on, say it out loud!

[Guided Missile]

You don't have to whisper socialism anymore Verbal, come on, say it out loud!

Jeremy Corbyn is a wealthy communist. The worst kind....

[buctootim]

Jeremy Corbyn is a wealthy communist. The worst kind....

 

...and he lives under the bed. Danger.

[Wes Tender]

http://www.lawyersforbritain.org/files/uk-right-to-negotiate-free-trade-agreements-before-leaving-eu.pdf

 

It seems that there may be legal grounds allowing us to negotiate FTAs with the rest of the World before we trigger Article 50, provided that they do not come into effect until after we have finally left the EU.

[so22saint]

http://www.lawyersforbritain.org/files/uk-right-to-negotiate-free-trade-agreements-before-leaving-eu.pdf

 

It seems that there may be legal grounds allowing us to negotiate FTAs with the rest of the World before we trigger Article 50, provided that they do not come into effect until after we have finally left the EU.

 

good, we need to get on with doing just that to have some certainty

[Guided Missile]

http://www.lawyersforbritain.org/files/uk-right-to-negotiate-free-trade-agreements-before-leaving-eu.pdf

 

It seems that there may be legal grounds allowing us to negotiate FTAs with the rest of the World before we trigger Article 50, provided that they do not come into effect until after we have finally left the EU.

Or, as I posted earlier on this thread:

 

Personally, I think that's a load of cr@p. Of course we can negotiate trade deals now. Maybe we can't sign them, but I can't believe we can't negotiate them. Anyway, what are they going to do if we do? Throw us out of the EU? Invade us?

 

 

Just a bunch of jobsworths that we didn't vote for...

[Verbal]

As close a definition of our situation as I've heard:

 

"Brexit is beginning to feel like the UK has locked itself out of the flat stark bol lock naked & is trying to style it out."

[Whitey Grandad]

Nothing we ever get will be as good as what we have now with the EU and it will be many years before we get it. An FTA is nowhere near as beneficial as the Single Market.

[Hockey_saint]

Nothing we ever get will be as good as what we have now with the EU and it will be many years before we get it. An FTA is nowhere near as beneficial as the Single Market.

 

So true. I still think someone should be prosecuted for the £350m a day NHS lie.

 

edit..... Bugger... So they can't be, but then there are lies, then there are £350m a day ones...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11541708/The-court-case-that-proves-you-cant-sue-politicians-for-breaking-their-election-promises.html

Edited 4 October, 2016 by Hockey_saint

[aintforever]

So true. I still think someone should be prosecuted for the £350m a day NHS lie.

 

edit..... Bugger... So they can't be, but then there are lies, then there are £350m a day ones...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11541708/The-court-case-that-proves-you-cant-sue-politicians-for-breaking-their-election-promises.html

 

 

Should the remain campaign be prosecuted for their lies as well?

[Hockey_saint]

Should the remain campaign be prosecuted for their lies as well?

 

Name me one. I mean, if you balanced the two out, it's pretty obvious who the fantasists were...but they won that;s why prosecution is suggested....remain didn't promise all that money and align themselves with right wing hate groups did they? I love this counter arguement...name me one remain lie that is in any way comparable to that one. you can't.

 

Fact is, wanting to grasp control of your own country, stopping it from becoming a mere state in a continental federation (whilst rather old world)is admirable, trying to make agreements with the rest of the world as a sovereign nation...again, commendable but don't make up massive, massive inflated lies, paint them on a bus and then accuse the other side of "oh well, they told lies too" they didn't parade a bus with that HUGE lie on it around the country to those silly enough to believe it to sway their vote!

Edited 4 October, 2016 by Hockey_saint

[Wes Tender]

Name me one. I mean, if you balanced the two out, it's pretty obvious who the fantasists were...but they won that;s why prosecution is suggested....remain didn't promise all that money and align themselves with right wing hate groups did they? I love this counter arguement...name me one remain lie that is in any way comparable to that one. you can't.

 

Fact is, wanting to grasp control of your own country, stopping it from becoming a mere state in a continental federation (whilst rather old world)is admirable, trying to make agreements with the rest of the world as a sovereign nation...again, commendable but don't make up massive, massive inflated lies, paint them on a bus and then accuse the other side of "oh well, they told lies too" they didn't parade a bus with that HUGE lie on it around the country to those silly enough to believe it to sway their vote!

 

It's just raking over old coals, but since you ask, I'd put up former Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne's"every family will be worse off by £4300 per annum" right up there.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36073201

 

Now, I realise that you won't like to acknowledge that the Remain wasn't as lily white as you would have liked, but which was the worse lie? The Leave campaign saying that the NHS would benefit from Brexit, or Remain saying that every family would suffer financially?

 

And who were these right-wing hate groups you speak of?

 

Anyway, the Referendum debate is old hat now, so move on, please.

[Hockey_saint]

It's just raking over old coals, but since you ask, I'd put up former Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne's"every family will be worse off by £4300 per annum" right up there.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36073201

 

Now, I realise that you won't like to acknowledge that the Remain wasn't as lily white as you would have liked, but which was the worse lie? The Leave campaign saying that the NHS would benefit from Brexit, or Remain saying that every family would suffer financially?

 

And who were these right-wing hate groups you speak of?

 

Anyway, the Referendum debate is old hat now, so move on, please.

 

i'd be careful choosing Osborne because most people can see he would have been one of the staunchest leave campaigners if he didn't know the pound would tank, investment would be in the gutter whilst we achieve nothing that leave campaigned for.

 

What;s that line? oh yes "not all leave voters are racist but all racists will vote leave"

 

The consequences are not old hat. But the national front, UKIP, Britain First....they all voted to leave. If the NHS goes down the pan without the promised funding, a lot of families could be that worse off through insurance and such. either way, 48 percent of the country voted to remain and a fair percent of those that didnt voted on the basis of lies told by a bunch of right wing buffoons but then, maybe more fool them. But as I say, Nigel Farage himself said if it was a 48/52 split he'd carry on the fight, what right do you have to be a petty child and try to pack up your toys and say "boo hoo it's done now" it isnt our country at the minute is run by clowns and an absolute laughing stock which is painful to see.

Edited 4 October, 2016 by Hockey_saint

[Lord Duckhunter]

Name me one.

!

 

The leader of the remain side said he would trigger article 50 the day after a leave vote . Will that do?

What about the emergency budget , when's that happening ?

 

Some questions for you regarding the NHS money .

 

Have we left the EU yet?

 

Is a leaver in charge of the NHS , the exchequer or the country?

 

Please explain how , Boris , Gove , David Davis , Gisele Stewart and other leave politicians enact the NHS pledge?

[Lord Duckhunter]

it isnt our country at the minute is run by clowns and an absolute laughing stock which is painful to see.

 

What do you expect . The PM , Health sec , chancellor, Home sec, a majority of the cabinet & most of the ruling parties MPs were Remainers .

 

It was you who were on the same side as those clowns . Some of us have been calling them clowns for months , good to see you finally agreeing with the majority.

Edited 5 October, 2016 by Lord Duckhunter

[hutch]

Will this be the first ever prosecution of a bus?

[Hockey_saint]

Will this be the first ever prosecution of a bus?

 

Well, they can't sue the politicians that wrote it.....so maybe the sign writers for false advertisement.

 

No, I kinda agree with a lot of what the leave voters say but some of the migration stuff does err towards xenophobia at the least and I'd also like to see some realistic financial planning...there has been none. none at all. You cannot run a country on hope and "oh it'll be alright" that's crazy talk. It does appear the public bought it however.....well, 52% of them, not the 68% they got in the 70s which actually was a realistic majority.

[hutch]

It's not "they" for a very large proportion of the population, it's "we". And fewer people voted to remain in 1975 than voted to leave in 2016.

[Wes Tender]

i'd be careful choosing Osborne because most people can see he would have been one of the staunchest leave campaigners if he didn't know the pound would tank, investment would be in the gutter whilst we achieve nothing that leave campaigned for.

 

What;s that line? oh yes "not all leave voters are racist but all racists will vote leave"

 

The consequences are not old hat. But the national front, UKIP, Britain First....they all voted to leave. If the NHS goes down the pan without the promised funding, a lot of families could be that worse off through insurance and such. either way, 48 percent of the country voted to remain and a fair percent of those that didnt voted on the basis of lies told by a bunch of right wing buffoons but then, maybe more fool them. But as I say, Nigel Farage himself said if it was a 48/52 split he'd carry on the fight, what right do you have to be a petty child and try to pack up your toys and say "boo hoo it's done now" it isnt our country at the minute is run by clowns and an absolute laughing stock which is painful to see.

 

You asked aintforever to name one lie in the Remain campaign and said he would not be able to. Now that the biggest Remain lie of all is laid at Osborne's door, you rather feebly attempt to dissemble yourself away from being shown up, by fudging the issue. I think that you suffer from delusion if you think that you speak for most people in believing that in reality he was really a closet Leaver.

 

I see you are also backtracking over the race hate issue too. It wasn't the Leave campaign that aligned itself to right wing hate groups, it was those groups that aligned themselves with the Leave campaign, much as a shambolic Labour Party has attracted the extreme left hate groups. I'm sure also that it satisfies you to label UKIP amongst them, so that you can accuse a substantial proportion of the electorate of being racist.

 

Ironic of you to talk of clowns when it is opinions like the ones you've just expressed that are so risible. The majority of those who voted are quite content with the outcome and the way that events are unfolding and I expect that nothing gets up their noses more than Remainians like you arrogantly accusing them of not being serious about their stance, or that they must be racist or a bit thick. It is attitudes like this that pushed their campaign over the line to victory.

[Sour Mash]

So true. I still think someone should be prosecuted for the £350m a day NHS lie.

 

edit..... Bugger... So they can't be, but then there are lies, then there are £350m a day ones...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11541708/The-court-case-that-proves-you-cant-sue-politicians-for-breaking-their-election-promises.html

It isn't a lie you absolute moron.

[hypochondriac]

Was the 350 million pound thing an election promise? From what I remember it was something like "we send 350 million to Brussels, let's spend it on the NHS." So although a pretty silly thing to say, there isn't actually a promise there to do that. I always read that to mean that we would have money to spend that we don't send to Brussels that we can use here in Britain which could potentially include the NHS. I'm not sure why people got so hung up about it at the time and I very much doubt that many people voted to leave solely on that statement.

[Hockey_saint]

It isn't a lie you absolute moron.

 

 

I'd be very careful before calling anyone a moron you right wing nut case. Either way, it's absolutely disgraceful.

[Hockey_saint]

Was the 350 million pound thing an election promise? From what I remember it was something like "we send 350 million to Brussels, let's spend it on the NHS." So although a pretty silly thing to say, there isn't actually a promise there to do that. I always read that to mean that we would have money to spend that we don't send to Brussels that we can use here in Britain which could potentially include the NHS. I'm not sure why people got so hung up about it at the time and I very much doubt that many people voted to leave solely on that statement.

 

 

Nah, they mostly voted leave because they don't like mass migration but either way. It's disgraceful and an absolute scandal that makes the uk population look like muppets.....like GM there. If that wasn't the case GM, you absolute mong, then why did even your goddess Thatcher think it an insane idea that she would in no way vote for....according to her main script writer?

Edited 5 October, 2016 by Hockey_saint

[Sour Mash]

I'd be very careful before calling anyone a moron you right wing nut case. Either way, it's absolutely disgraceful.

Why?

[Hockey_saint]

Why?

 

Because even if it isn't a lie, it's an obviously scummy ploy by a bunch of right wingers to fool the populous into thinking that's the case and if you actually disagree, well then you're as bad yourself. And if you're happy that your politicians performed such a dastidly trick then perhaps you are as low as they are.

[Sour Mash]

Because even if it isn't a lie, it's an obviously scummy ploy by a bunch of right wingers to fool the populous into thinking that's the case and if you actually disagree, well then you're as bad yourself. And if you're happy that your politicians performed such a dastidly trick then perhaps you are as low as they are.

Only the very simple don't understand the point the advert was making. I don't know a single person that was "tricked" by it. Do you?

[Sour Mash]

Because even if it isn't a lie, it's an obviously scummy ploy by a bunch of right wingers to fool the populous into thinking that's the case and if you actually disagree, well then you're as bad yourself. And if you're happy that your politicians performed such a dastidly trick then perhaps you are as low as they are.

But I'm glad to see you've already back tracked on your mistake that it was a lie.

[Hockey_saint]

But I'm glad to see you've already back tracked on your mistake that it was a lie.

 

With the minor lead leave had, you know as well as I do, the population that actually were bought into believing there would be some sort of NHS cash bonaza could very well have swung it and as for GM, like mine, I've read some of his moronic rants on here too so it's a bit rich for him to call anyone a moron.

[Sour Mash]

With the minor lead leave had, you know as well as I do, the population that actually were bought into believing there would be some sort of NHS cash bonaza could very well have swung it and as for GM, like mine, I've read some of his moronic rants on here too so it's a bit rich for him to call anyone a moron.

So just to confirm, you agree it wasn't a lie and none of us know anyone that was "tricked" into voting leave by the bus advert?

[Hockey_saint]

So just to confirm, you agree it wasn't a lie and none of us know anyone that was "tricked" into voting leave by the bus advert?

 

I do actually know quite a few people.....quite a few nurses who actually thought they'd get more money for it. But if you know that's what people will think, at best it's misleading and absolutely shameful.

[Sour Mash]

I do actually know quite a few people.....quite a few nurses who actually thought they'd get more money for it. But if you know that's what people will think, at best it's misleading and absolutely shameful.

Its not a difficult advert to understand is it? Its not at all misleading.

[moonraker]

It's not "they" for a very large proportion of the population, it's "we". And fewer people voted to remain in 1975 than voted to leave in 2016.

 

And your point is? In 1975 reamain won with 67% of the votes cast, and polled only 320000 votes less than this years reamain vote, with a smaller population and a smaller turnout. 1975 was a far more empahtic win for remain than this years leave vote. In 1975 43% of the eleigible eletroarte voted to stay, in 2016 it was 37%. So by every measure 1975 was far more definitive than 2016. This is however academic and has no real relevence to our position today.

[Hockey_saint]

Its not a difficult advert to understand is it? Its not at all misleading.

 

Oh it absolutely is....why paint a ruddy great red bus and emblazen that on the side if you don't think that people will actually think you are going to pour that sort of money into the NHS. it's scandalous and I can't believe you are actually trying to defend it.

[Sour Mash]

Oh it absolutely is....why paint a ruddy great red bus and emblazen that on the side if you don't think that people will actually think you are going to pour that sort of money into the NHS. it's scandalous and I can't believe you are actually trying to defend it.

Its not a difficult point to understand, apart for people like you.

[Hockey_saint]

Its not a difficult point to understand, apart for people like you.

 

"people like me" you really are an insulting and rude person aren't you. Obviously the battle plan for leave was "grab the xenophobic pensioners and right wingers" (like yourself) and "then grab the people who actually want to believe the NHS is worth saving" and who believe obvious misinterpretations. Why go to the effort of painting that on a bus if you don't intend on people thinking there will be a cash windfall...you haven't answered that one I see.

[Hockey_saint]

Only me eh? even Tory ministers are laughing at him for this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3584627/The-Boris-blunder-bus-Boris-Johnson-accused-hypocrisy-kicks-nationwide-Brexit-tour-GERMAN-bus.html

[Wes Tender]

Nah, they mostly voted leave because they don't like mass migration but either way. It's disgraceful and an absolute scandal that makes the uk population look like muppets.....like GM there. If that wasn't the case GM, you absolute mong, then why did even your goddess Thatcher think it an insane idea that she would in no way vote for....according to her main script writer?

 

You're looking more ridiculous and desperate by the minute. Now you'll have us believe that just because Maggie Thatcher's former main script writer expressed an opinion on what her position would have been in a campaign only began long after she died, (before events like the mass uncontrolled immigration and the rise of UKIP), that he would know which side she would have supported. Did her script writer consult her via a Ouija board?

 

When you try to assert that the percentage of the electorate who believed the Leave campaign's battle bus slogan could have been sufficient to have tipped the vote in Leave's favour, how many percentage points would you reckon were gained by the Remain campaign propaganda whereby the Prime Minister spent £9 million of taxpayers money on a leaflet drop to every voter, expressing the opinion that they ought to vote to remain in the EU?

[Sour Mash]

"people like me" you really are an insulting and rude person aren't you. Obviously the battle plan for leave was "grab the xenophobic pensioners and right wingers" (like yourself) and "then grab the people who actually want to believe the NHS is worth saving" and who believe obvious misinterpretations. Why go to the effort of painting that on a bus if you don't intend on people thinking there will be a cash windfall...you haven't answered that one I see.

Its a good example of where our net contribution to the EU could be spent. Why do you find that difficult to understand?

[hypochondriac]

Nah, they mostly voted leave because they don't like mass migration but either way. It's disgraceful and an absolute scandal that makes the uk population look like muppets.....like GM there. If that wasn't the case GM, you absolute mong, then why did even your goddess Thatcher think it an insane idea that she would in no way vote for....according to her main script writer?

If it had very little effect and was called out at the time then why is it disgraceful and a scandal? It wasn't a promise, and I doubt very much that anyone's vote was swayed by that.

[Wes Tender]

Only me eh? even Tory ministers are laughing at him for this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3584627/The-Boris-blunder-bus-Boris-Johnson-accused-hypocrisy-kicks-nationwide-Brexit-tour-GERMAN-bus.html

 

The absolute shame of you having to quote an old article from the Daily Mail!

 

I'd stop digging if I were you.

[hypochondriac]

Because even if it isn't a lie, it's an obviously scummy ploy by a bunch of right wingers to fool the populous into thinking that's the case and if you actually disagree, well then you're as bad yourself. And if you're happy that your politicians performed such a dastidly trick then perhaps you are as low as they are.

 

But you even said that wasn't why they voted so it didn't really fool anyone. Besides, the remain side used the exact same tactics with their dire predictions.

[Hockey_saint]

Its a good example of where our net contribution to the EU could be spent. Why do you find that difficult to understand?

 

Because straight after the vote, it was immediatley backtracked by everyone on leave and Hypochondriac, if you really think no one was swayed by that...well, I think you are overating the intellegence of some people.

[Charlie Wayman]

Its not a difficult advert to understand is it? Its not at all misleading.

 

It was totally misleading as it did not acknowledge that a large proportion of that money came back to the UK in the form of grants and subsidies so on that basis alone it was a Lie. The net flow of cash out was very much lower and that was the price of being a member of the club. As far as I know you do not get free membership of a golf club for very obvious reasons. Typically those who voted 'out' want everything for nothing, little englanders used to a nanny welfare state where you don't have to work if you can't be Rrsed.