Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Wes Tender]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/17/uk-prepares-seek-eu-trade-talks-extension-coronavirus-crisis/

 

Didn’t take long. If it is the case, it’s entirely sensible in the circumstances. Little Les will be angry -who knows a delay could have a higher mortality rate among the Brexiter swivels than coronavirus. But it’s obviously the right decision.

 

I'm only a few months older than you, Gavyn. I realise from the usual insults that you hurl at those who disagree with you on anything that you are quite a nasty piece of work, but expressing thoughts along those lines really is plumbing the depths.

[hypochondriac]

Either you haven't read my posts on my thoughts about the possibility of a delay, or you're just totally lacking in comprehension of plain English. Just so that there can be no doubt in your mind what my position is, I'll state it again, just for your benefit. I do not see the coronavirus providing any excuse for delaying the deadline for the Implementation period. Has that penetrated your cranium? I told Gavyn that I saw no circumstances under which the deadline should be extended and he had to be told several times too before the message was understood. Therefore if it happens, I will not be changing my mind about whether it would be the wrong decision. Got it?

I don't see how anyone would think it unreasonable for there to be an extension under the circumstances which really are unprecedented in over a century. Just like virtually everything else, brexit needs to be put on pause until this is over. I'd hope for a years extension at least, possibly longer.

[shurlock]

I'm only a few months older than you, Gavyn. I realise from the usual insults that you hurl at those who disagree with you on anything that you are quite a nasty piece of work, but expressing thoughts along those lines really is plumbing the depths.

 

Calm down Les it’s not good for the blood pressure. All reasonable people can agree that an extension is desirable in the circumstances and that at this unprecedented time the last thing we need is additional uncertainty and distractions. I hope you can temporarily put your dogmatism to one side pal.

Edited 18 March, 2020 by shurlock

[Plastic]

Either you haven't read my posts on my thoughts about the possibility of a delay, or you're just totally lacking in comprehension of plain English. Just so that there can be no doubt in your mind what my position is, I'll state it again, just for your benefit. I do not see the coronavirus providing any excuse for delaying the deadline for the Implementation period. Has that penetrated your cranium? I told Gavyn that I saw no circumstances under which the deadline should be extended and he had to be told several times too before the message was understood. Therefore if it happens, I will not be changing my mind about whether it would be the wrong decision. Got it?

 

Edited 18 March, 2020 by Plastic

[Tamesaint]

Either you haven't read my posts on my thoughts about the possibility of a delay, or you're just totally lacking in comprehension of plain English. Just so that there can be no doubt in your mind what my position is, I'll state it again, just for your benefit. I do not see the coronavirus providing any excuse for delaying the deadline for the Implementation period. Has that penetrated your cranium? I told Gavyn that I saw no circumstances under which the deadline should be extended and he had to be told several times too before the message was understood. Therefore if it happens, I will not be changing my mind about whether it would be the wrong decision. Got it?

 

Wow. Self isolation is clearly making some people grumpy.

 

Would you not support an extension even if the Government and the rest of the Conservative party agreed to it?

 

You lapped up the sudden change in fiscal policy that was announced in the Budget last week . Wouldn't you likewise approve of an extension if it was proposed by Johnson as being "common sense? "

[Wes Tender]

Calm down Les it’s not good for the blood pressure. All reasonable people can agree that an extension is desirable in the circumstances and that at this unprecedented time the last thing we need is additional uncertainty and distractions. I hope you can temporarily put your dogmatism to one side pal.

 

There's nothing wrong with my blood pressure, Gavyn, but thanks for your concern. I'm deeply touched by it. I accept your apology for the crass way that you brought the age of Brexit voters into the debate.

 

I note that all reasonable people would vote for an extension, so it is only the unreasonable thickos who would oppose it, right? The same ignorant thickos who voted to leave the EU in the first place, eh?

 

For some reason though, you do not seem to understand that a delay to the Implementation period is in itself a serious factor increasing uncertainty and distractions. Surely you must have accepted that extending the WA three times exacerbated business and finance confidence, so it is an easy step to understand that likewise an extension to the Implementation period would also not be helpful in the same way. What could be decided in say an extra year that could not be decided in the forthcoming few months? Either the EU are prepared to agree a Canada style FTA or they are not. The sooner that this is resolved, the better.

 

It comes as no surprise to me that the Remoaner/Rejoiner establishment are doing their damnedest to use the coronavirus pandemic as an excuse to postpone the Implementation period as long as they possibly can. The EU of course have indicated right from the start that they lack the bureaucratic efficiency or indeed the political will to get this done by the end of the year, so naturally they will also use this pandemic as an excuse. As far as I am aware, the government are due to release our FTA proposals very shortly. There is no reason why those proposals cannot be shown to all of the 27 EU member states and their reactions quickly received in return. We can proceed from there.

 

As things stand at the moment, the deadline for the Implementation period is set in law for the 31st December and would require for that to be repealed if it were to be extended. Personally, I don't think that it would pass the House, so that is the crux of the matter. My local MP says "I am completely against an extension and was elected on a promise to deliver the deadline."

[hypochondriac]

I've never really slagged off Wes before but this dogged adherence to ending the transition period at any cost is insane. No wonder people call you extreme if that's genuinely your attitude when faced with this situation.

[shurlock]

Wow. Self isolation is clearly making some people grumpy.

 

Would you not support an extension even if the Government and the rest of the Conservative party agreed to it?

 

You lapped up the sudden change in fiscal policy that was announced in the Budget last week . Wouldn't you likewise approve of an extension if it was proposed by Johnson as being "common sense? "

 

He was very opposed to Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement at first and then swung behind it and was like a giddy toddler by the end of things, so who knows. But he’s really boxed himself in on this one, so perhaps he won’t fold. There’s no shame in changing your mind. Far from it if it’s the pragmatic thing to do. Certainly better than looking like a complete lunatic

[Wes Tender]

Wow. Self isolation is clearly making some people grumpy.

 

Would you not support an extension even if the Government and the rest of the Conservative party agreed to it?

 

You lapped up the sudden change in fiscal policy that was announced in the Budget last week . Wouldn't you likewise approve of an extension if it was proposed by Johnson as being "common sense? "

 

How many times do I have to repeat myself before the penny finally drops?

 

I do not see the coronavirus providing any excuse for delaying the deadline for the Implementation period.

 

Please read my post above as many times as it requires before comprehension finally dawns on you. I've highlighted the relevant part that covers your questions, which was also asked by Gavyn, had you bothered to read back a few posts.

[shurlock]

There's nothing wrong with my blood pressure, Gavyn, but thanks for your concern. I'm deeply touched by it. I accept your apology for the crass way that you brought the age of Brexit voters into the debate.

 

I note that all reasonable people would vote for an extension, so it is only the unreasonable thickos who would oppose it, right? The same ignorant thickos who voted to leave the EU in the first place, eh?

 

For some reason though, you do not seem to understand that a delay to the Implementation period is in itself a serious factor increasing uncertainty and distractions. Surely you must have accepted that extending the WA three times exacerbated business and finance confidence, so it is an easy step to understand that likewise an extension to the Implementation period would also not be helpful in the same way. What could be decided in say an extra year that could not be decided in the forthcoming few months? Either the EU are prepared to agree a Canada style FTA or they are not. The sooner that this is resolved, the better.

 

It comes as no surprise to me that the Remoaner/Rejoiner establishment are doing their damnedest to use the coronavirus pandemic as an excuse to postpone the Implementation period as long as they possibly can. The EU of course have indicated right from the start that they lack the bureaucratic efficiency or indeed the political will to get this done by the end of the year, so naturally they will also use this pandemic as an excuse. As far as I am aware, the government are due to release our FTA proposals very shortly. There is no reason why those proposals cannot be shown to all of the 27 EU member states and their reactions quickly received in return. We can proceed from there.

 

As things stand at the moment, the deadline for the Implementation period is set in law for the 31st December and would require for that to be repealed if it were to be extended. Personally, I don't think that it would pass the House, so that is the crux of the matter. My local MP says "I am completely against an extension and was elected on a promise to deliver the deadline."

 

Let’s be clear I wasn’t bringing the age of Brexiters into things pal. Not sure how you worked that one out. I was simply making a joke about the health complications caused by extremist Brexiters getting angry, stressed and depressed over any delay in the negotiations. As for the rest of your post, it’s a characteristic combination of economic ignorance (why did the currency markets react so negatively when Johnson set the December 31 deadline which in your book increased certainty?) and muddled delusion (what has the remoaner establishment got to do with anything if Johnson and his 80+ majority decide its in the country’s interests to extend the transition period?).

Edited 18 March, 2020 by shurlock

[Wes Tender]

Let’s be clear I wasn’t bringing the age of Brexiters into things pal. Not sure how you worked that one out. I was simply making a joke about the health complications caused by extremist Brexiters getting angry, stressed and depressed over any delay in the negotiations. As for the rest of your post, it’s a characteristic combination of economic ignorance (why did the currency markets react so negatively when Johnson set the December 31 deadline which in your book increased certainty?) and muddled delusion (what has the remoaner establishment got to do with anything if Johnson and his 80+ majority decide its in the country’s interests to extend the transition period?).

 

Re your jokes; you should cut them out, as you economists and accountant types are not very funny generally, and you're no exception.

 

Well done trying to correlate the fluctuations of the Pound which occur on a daily basis for all sorts of reasons, with business confidence, increased because of the ability of individual businesses to make planning and investment decisions based on a greater degree of certainty and stability, brought about by knowledge of the outcome of future events.

[sandwichsaint]

Re your jokes; you should cut them out, as you economists and accountant types are not very funny generally, and you're no exception.

 

Well done trying to correlate the fluctuations of the Pound which occur on a daily basis for all sorts of reasons, with business confidence, increased because of the ability of individual businesses to make planning and investment decisions based on a greater degree of certainty and stability, brought about by knowledge of the outcome of future events.

 

As the young mum in the supermarket queue who has just lost her couple of shifts at the local pub which she uses to supplement the income from the other two PT jobs she works, said to the man next to her in the queue who has just been laid off and has no idea what comes next 'Thank God we got Brexit done'.

 

Said no one ever.

[saint1977]

I've never really slagged off Wes before but this dogged adherence to ending the transition period at any cost is insane. No wonder people call you extreme if that's genuinely your attitude when faced with this situation.

 

I can't believe from what I'm reading from Wes, I think he must be seriously unwell. This is the biggest challenge the NHS has had in it's 70 year+ history, Brexit and indeed party politics are just irrelevant right now whatever standpoint people have on those issues.

 

The EU itself is a side issue for quite some time now as well whilst the member states who are part of it battle to limit the severe damage to their populations with whatever measures they need to take especially Italy, Spain and France.

 

Of course the transition period needs to be extended, it clearly will be. I agree Hypo that firm dates on that aren't important right now. I don't believe frankly in the circumstances that anyone other than utter loons are focused on anything other than battling COVID-19 and taking measures which limits the clinical, economic and social impact of COVID-19. As the Chancellor said this is not a time for ideologies.

 

Even if a few loony MPs did vote against, Boris's majority is more than big enough.

 

Yes, the transition period and trade talks will emerge again in the future no doubt but I think UK HMG and the EU member states have got a rather bigger set of priorities at present.

[hypochondriac]

As the young mum in the supermarket queue who has just lost her couple of shifts at the local pub which she uses to supplement the income from the other two PT jobs she works, said to the man next to her in the queue who has just been laid off and has no idea what comes next 'Thank God we got Brexit done'.

 

Said no one ever.

Pretty pathetic to try to make the coronavirus crisis about brexit.

[shurlock]

edit

[sandwichsaint]

Pretty pathetic to try to make the coronavirus crisis about brexit.

 

Not really, it was Les that spent all morning banging on about business as usual, apologies if I threw a brick through his window and that offended you.

We might as well lock this thread now if we are all going to fall in behind the group-think and only be allowed to comment on one issue at a time.

[Weston Super Saint]

I've never really slagged off Wes before but this dogged adherence to ending the transition period at any cost is insane. No wonder people call you extreme if that's genuinely your attitude when faced with this situation.

 

Are you saying that those responsible for negotiating Brexit are not able to continue unless they have face to face meetings, or that they have been tasked with other duties at present?

[shurlock]

Pound sinks under $1.18 in deepening coronavirus market crisis

Currency has not stuck under $1.20 since 1980s

 

Sterling has dropped under $1.18 to a level it has not consistently traded at since the 1980s, as the coronavirus outbreak continues to rip through global markets.

 

On Wednesday, the pound fell as low as $1.1754 against the dollar, extending a decline over the past week with a fresh 2 per cent drop.

 

Part of the decline stems from a global scramble for dollars that has built up since companies started hoarding funds to give themselves buffers to ride out the pandemic.

 

On March 9, before travel restrictions in Europe and the US kicked in, sterling was trading at $1.31. But the likely global impact of the disease has spurred a sharp decline in riskier assets, sending stock indices around the world tumbling and investors rushing to the safety of the dollar.

 

“Everyone thought that Brexit was the big deal for sterling this year but . . . the currency has been completely overwhelmed by the coronavirus,” said Richard Benson, co-chief investment officer at Millennium Global Investments in London.

 

Sterling has lost more than 6 per cent against both the dollar and the euro since the start of the month, taking its year-to-date slide to more than 9 per cent against the dollar. The slide continued this week despite new measures from the UK government to fight a looming economic downturn.

 

Paul Jackson, global head of asset allocation research at Invesco, said that efforts to fight the crisis had not been rewarded in currency markets due to the UK’s departure from the EU, which he said had left the UK economy in a compromised position.

 

“If you are already weakened by an underlying condition (Brexit, in the case of sterling), then the risks are greater,” he said.

 

Some analysts also said that the UK’s initially measured approach to the virus, in contrast to a more urgent response seen elsewhere, had also weighed on the currency.

 

“The UK is really at odds with the responses we’ve seen in other European countries and I think that’s one of the reasons why sterling is so out of favour,” said Silvia Dall’Angelo, a senior economist at Hermes Investment Management in London.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/40272e84-68ff-11ea-a3c9-1fe6fedcca75

[buctootim]

Are you saying that those responsible for negotiating Brexit are not able to continue unless they have face to face meetings, or that they have been tasked with other duties at present?

The latter. According to the Telegraph yesterday Civil servants previously working on Brexit negotiations have been drafted to contingency planning for corona, as have many of their European counterparts. Basically there isnt enough capacity to do everything - and even if there was you can't negotiate trade arrangements if you don't even know if industry will be closed or people will be allowed to travel.

[Wes Tender]

Not really, it was Les that spent all morning banging on about business as usual, apologies if I threw a brick through his window and that offended you.

We might as well lock this thread now if we are all going to fall in behind the group-think and only be allowed to comment on one issue at a time.

 

Hypo was quite right to pull you up on your post, it was pathetic. I was responding originally to a post linking to the Telegraph article claiming that the government would be coerced into postponing the Implementation period for up to a year and expressed the perfectly reasonable opinion that it was unnecessary, as alternatives such as video conferencing could be employed instead of face to face negotiations.

 

I agree that we should be able to discuss more than one issue at a time, despite the best efforts of the usual Remoaner suspects to close down debate on Brexit, which amazingly is the title of this very thread.

[Weston Super Saint]

The latter. According to the Telegraph yesterday Civil servants previously working on Brexit negotiations have been drafted to contingency planning for corona, as have many of their European counterparts. Basically there isnt enough capacity to do everything - and even if there was you can't negotiate trade arrangements if you don't even know if industry will be closed or people will be allowed to travel.

 

Would seem like a perfectly legitimate reason why Brexit negotiations need to be put on hold if the people carrying them out are tasked with other, more important / imminent duties....

[Wes Tender]

The latter. According to the Telegraph yesterday Civil servants previously working on Brexit negotiations have been drafted to contingency planning for corona, as have many of their European counterparts. Basically there isnt enough capacity to do everything - and even if there was you can't negotiate trade arrangements if you don't even know if industry will be closed or people will be allowed to travel.

 

Yes there is sufficient capacity within the Civil Service to deal with both matters. Next you'll be claiming that Civil Servants in all of the other departments won't be able to carry on with their normal work, as they will all be seconded to work on the coronavirus too.

 

But anyway, the Telegraph article was yesterday's news. It is encouraging to hear today from the PM that there are no plans to extend the deadline. And yes you can organise a FTA or indeed WTO arrangements for 9 months ahead regardless of the coronavirus impact on industry or travel at that time.

[shurlock]

The latter. According to the Telegraph yesterday Civil servants previously working on Brexit negotiations have been drafted to contingency planning for corona, as have many of their European counterparts. Basically there isnt enough capacity to do everything - and even if there was you can't negotiate trade arrangements if you don't even know if industry will be closed or people will be allowed to travel.

 

It’s more than that. A vast amount of physical and regulatory infrastructure needs to be in place by the end of the year - even assuming there’s a Canada style deal, up to 50,000 customs alone need to be recruited and that’s the tip of the iceberg. Meanwhile even before the virus hit there were grave doubts whether the new trade arrangements for NI would be ready on time.

 

Never mind all the complex regulatory agencies that the UK has set up as it will no longer be a member of EASA, Eurotom, EMA etc. Take EASA (European Union Aviation Safety regime), industry has estimated that it will take a decade to establish an equivalent authority with all the expertise of EASA in addition to higher costs.

 

Of course all this assumes significant and seemingly intractable policy differences can be overcome by June when the UK has said it will consider walking away from talks if insufficient progress has been made.

 

With coronavirus, businesses in UK & EU are facing the greatest challenge in decades. Temporarily parking one source of uncertainty over which the UK has control makes obvious sense. Hitting businesses with more uncertainty and a possible no deal that would put greater stress on already disrupted trade links, supply chains and workforces doesn’t. There’s a reason why sterling has tanked against not only the dollar but also the euro: Brexit has left the UK in a particularly vulnerable position to deal with shocks like coronavirus (N.B. most of our medical supplies will be in dollars or euros).

 

This discussion has exposed some posters for what they really are.

Edited 18 March, 2020 by shurlock

[buctootim]

It’s more than that. A vast amount of physical and regulatory infrastructure needs to be in place by the end of the year.....

 

I know. I just didnt want to get into the nuts and bolts of it, enabling West to bluster over every point.

[CB Fry]

I know. I just didnt want to get into the nuts and bolts of it, enabling West to bluster over every point.

It's not beyond the wit of man etc etc etc.

[CB Fry]

...

Edited 18 March, 2020 by CB Fry

[CB Fry]

...

Edited 18 March, 2020 by CB Fry
Glitch

[Wes Tender]

Boris asked about the possibility of an extension, said that this had already been answered before, legislation was in place covering it, which would not be changed. Just as an aside, I think that he comes across rather well in these daily briefings.

[hypochondriac]

Boris asked about the possibility of an extension, said that this had already been answered before, legislation was in place covering it, which would not be changed. Just as an aside, I think that he comes across rather well in these daily briefings.

It was pretty much a non answer. I have been surprised by how badly he has come accross in them tbh. Sunak was superb yesterday by comparison, Boris has been mostly bluster.

[badgerx16]

..... Boris has been mostly bluster.

As always.

[Weston Super Saint]

The latter. According to the Telegraph yesterday Civil servants previously working on Brexit negotiations have been drafted to contingency planning for corona, as have many of their European counterparts. Basically there isnt enough capacity to do everything - and even if there was you can't negotiate trade arrangements if you don't even know if industry will be closed or people will be allowed to travel.

 

Perhaps the Telegraph were mistaken? Currently on BBC Live feed :

 

UK Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab has said a post-Brexit UK-EU trade deal can still be done by the end of the transition period in December 2020.

 

Speaking to the Commons' Foreign Affairs Committee, Mr Raab said there was "plenty of scope" for talks "to be done through teleconferencing and remotely".

 

"We don't want to extend - we want to get this done," he told MPs.

 

"We also feel that with the political declaration, there is enough of a series of guidelines now, followed up by the negotiating texts, to enable this to be done in time."

 

Talks due to be held this week were put on hold because of the coronavirus outbreak.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-51955509

[buctootim]

Perhaps the Telegraph were mistaken?

 

I think those quotes make it more likely. The certainty of 'won't' has gone and been replaced with "scope for" and "want to"

[Plastic]

Odds on us needing to go crawling back to the EU with our tail between our legs?

I suppose we could trade UK fishing rights for humanitarian aid.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51961624

[buctootim]

Odds on us needing to go crawling back to the EU with our tail between our legs?

I suppose we could trade UK fishing rights for humanitarian aid.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51961624

 

Nah. We're an independent nation with a proud history of standing alone dontchaknow. We'd rather starve and die from lack of medical equipment.

[Wes Tender]

Odds on us needing to go crawling back to the EU with our tail between our legs?

I suppose we could trade UK fishing rights for humanitarian aid.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51961624

 

Remoaner clutching at straws

[Mosin]

Nah. We're an independent nation with a proud history of standing alone dontchaknow. We'd rather starve and die from lack of medical equipment.

 

Eu country's are not trading medical supplies, so no one is getting any from eu members,, eu members have taken an every man for him self stance. Only help eu members are getting ( Italy and Spain) comes from out side the eu..... Eu members pretty much told Italy to just let it's ppl die.... But don't let that change the fact the European union is the greatest union on earth... Lol.

[Guided Missile]

Eu country's are not trading medical supplies, so no one is getting any from eu members,, eu members have taken an every man for him self stance. Only help eu members are getting ( Italy and Spain) comes from out side the eu..... Eu members pretty much told Italy to just let it's ppl die.... But don't let that change the fact the European union is the greatest union on earth... Lol.

Don't feed the traitorous trolls on here. It only encourages them to knock Britain, 17.4 million of it's population and its democratically elected government, at every opportunity.

 

Now, where to panic-buy piano wire...?

[buctootim]

Eu country's are not trading medical supplies, so no one is getting any from eu members,, eu members have taken an every man for him self stance. Only help eu members are getting ( Italy and Spain) comes from out side the eu..... Eu members pretty much told Italy to just let it's ppl die.... But don't let that change the fact the European union is the greatest union on earth... Lol.

 

That would be worrying if it were true, but it isnt so I'm fine with it. The pharmaceuticals and medical equipment sector accounts for around 240,000 mostly highly paid jobs in the UK and about 10% of exports, half of which go to the EU. EU imports are around 8%. Unlike cars or TVs or phones there are often no alternative brands or generic to key drugs. Without agreed common standards in place trade grinds to a halt.

[buctootim]

Don't feed the traitorous trolls on here. It only encourages them to knock Britain, 17.4 million of it's population and its democratically elected government, at every opportunity.

 

Now, where to panic-buy piano wire...?

 

Don't do it John. The problems will blow over eventually and your family will miss you.

[buctootim]

How the **** does the US have 160,000 ventilators, Germany 25,000 and the UK 5,000?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/business/coronavirus-ventilator-shortage.html

[Mosin]

That would be worrying if it were true, but it isnt so I'm fine with it. The pharmaceuticals and medical equipment sector accounts for around 240,000 mostly highly paid jobs in the UK and about 10% of exports, half of which go to the EU. EU imports are around 8%. Unlike cars or TVs or phones there are often no alternative brands or generic to key drugs. Without agreed common standards in place trade grinds to a halt.

 

No, your right, who would have thought that during a world wide pandemic, trade and so on wouldn't be disrupted and country's prioritising it's own population over anothers... My God, I must wash my mouth out for telling lies.. Ohh wait nope my Google works thankfully... Try the t. Thnx.

[buctootim]

No, your right, who would have thought that during a world wide pandemic, trade and so on wouldn't be disrupted and country's prioritising it's own population over anothers... My God, I must wash my mouth out for telling lies.. Ohh wait nope my Google works thankfully... Try the t. Thnx.

 

Still not grasping the issue. No country is self sufficient in healthcare products. The UK exports specialised products for specific conditions and imports others for different conditions. Drugs which might be helpful to the treatment of COVID 19 are made in Japan, Germany, Switzerland and others. Parts essential for ventilator manufacture are sourced across the world. Crashing out of the transition period before common standards are agreed would not just be stupid but potentially homicidal.

[Plastic]

Remoaner clutching at straws

 

If you think I want us to be in that position, then you are insane.

[benjii]

How the **** does the US have 160,000 ventilators, Germany 25,000 and the UK 5,000?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/business/coronavirus-ventilator-shortage.html

 

High quality private healthcare?

[Weston Super Saint]

How the **** does the US have 160,000 ventilators, Germany 25,000 and the UK 5,000?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/business/coronavirus-ventilator-shortage.html

 

Is it because we generally have a healthier lifestyle than the fat ****ers that live in the US so haven't needed as many ventilators?

 

I've not heard of a ventilator shortage before now, so presumably we've had more than enough for our needs to date - not sure it's an item you'd want to stockpile is it?

[buctootim]

I've not heard of a ventilator shortage before now, so presumably we've had more than enough for our needs to date - not sure it's an item you'd want to stockpile is it?

 

The NHS doesnt really have any spare capacity, its assets are used close to 100% all the time. Thats great for efficiency but when you get a surge in need like this, its where the leaness / bare bones becomes apparent. Its not uncommon even in normal usage for critically ill patients to be transferred 100 miles or more in search of an available CCU bed.

Edited 20 March, 2020 by buctootim

[aintforever]

The NHS doesnt really have any spare capacity, its assets are used close to 100% all the time. Thats great for efficiency but when you get a surge in need like this, its where the leaness / bare bones becomes apparent. Its not uncommon even in normal usage for critically ill patients to be transferred 100 miles or more in search of an available CCU bed.

 

I wonder how many will die because of the Tory cuts?

[Weston Super Saint]

I wonder how many will die because of the Tory cuts?

 

Source?

[Mosin]

Still not grasping the issue. No country is self sufficient in healthcare products. The UK exports specialised products for specific conditions and imports others for different conditions. Drugs which might be helpful to the treatment of COVID 19 are made in Japan, Germany, Switzerland and others. Parts essential for ventilator manufacture are sourced across the world. Crashing out of the transition period before common standards are agreed would not just be stupid but potentially homicidal.

 

No you are not grasping the issue, my comment has nothing what so ever to do with trade AFTER brexit, it's about the here and now ( as some remainer tried to claim brexit is a reason for the lack of them atm.) . Germany is also the eu's main manufacturer of ventilators. The same ones Italy begged for but got turned down, same when they asked for masks, cleaning products and other essentials it needed to help it contain the virus.

 

Instead I'd trying to claim I am wrong, do some research and Google it. The amazing eu country's refusing to help one of its own members in dire need...

[Johnny Bognor]

EU’s top scientist, dramatically quit last night because of the bloc’s response to the virus, saying he had “lost faith” in the EU

 

Meanwhile EU finance ministers said on Wednesday they still hadn’t agreed an economic response. Northern EU member states like the Netherlands and Germany fear they’ll end up carrying other countries’ debts, while hard-hit nations in the south like Italy and Spain say not enough is being done