Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[hypochondriac]

It's childlike. First the refusal to listen to anybody suggesting unicorns don't exist. Then blaming everybody but themselves when it turns out they don't.

When you say this, which posters are you talking about specifically?

[Weston Super Saint]

I thought it was supposed to be the easiest trade deal in history?

 

It still can be, but it takes two to tango.

 

For what it's worth, I've only ever made one prediction on here, which I still stand by. Simply put, there are too many grubby fingers in too many pies for any kind of deal to ever be agreed.

[Wes Tender]

Let's recap on progress so far. Referendum forced onto Cameron. Referendum won, despite the best efforts of the establishment to prevent it via project fear. Brexit seriously under threat through the serially incompetent negotiating of the WA by May and Robbins, a majority remoaner Parliament and a rogue speaker, all doing their utmost to either revoke article 50, or overturn it via a second/third referendum. May replaced by Boris, who wins a stonking majority in the Brexit General Election, imposing the biggest ever electoral defeat on Labour. The remoaner majority in the House is no more and all of those instrumental in trying to overturn article 50, including the rogue speaker, are all gone.

 

We have now left the EU and enter negotiations on the future trading arrangements with the EU, the government having a strong mandate behind them for the first time. At last we are negotiating sensibly from a position of playing those cards that give us an advantage. We have backed the EU into a corner by setting the deadline date by with we must agree a deal acceptable to both parties, or we have made it clear that we will leave with no deal. We have also made it clear that we will not accept regulatory alignment, that we are leaving the SM and CU and everything that those imply. We are already setting out the parameters of our future immigration policy now that freedom of movement is to end, and gearing up to arrange our own free trade deals around the world. The EU believe mistakenly that we are bothered by their assertions that trade talks cannot begin until we accept that they can continue their current fisheries access to our coastal waters, that we cant have this or that deal unless we accept their conditions that impose a level playing field of rules and regulations that suits them and hampers our progress now that we are free of their chains that bound us.

 

I'd say that the situation looked pretty damned good from a Brexiteer perspective. Having come so close to getting the whole thing derailed just a short few months ago, the Remoaners on here are trying but failing to put a brave face on it.

[egg]

Let's recap on progress so far. Referendum forced onto Cameron. Referendum won, despite the best efforts of the establishment to prevent it via project fear. Brexit seriously under threat through the serially incompetent negotiating of the WA by May and Robbins, a majority remoaner Parliament and a rogue speaker, all doing their utmost to either revoke article 50, or overturn it via a second/third referendum. May replaced by Boris, who wins a stonking majority in the Brexit General Election, imposing the biggest ever electoral defeat on Labour. The remoaner majority in the House is no more and all of those instrumental in trying to overturn article 50, including the rogue speaker, are all gone.

 

We have now left the EU and enter negotiations on the future trading arrangements with the EU, the government having a strong mandate behind them for the first time. At last we are negotiating sensibly from a position of playing those cards that give us an advantage. We have backed the EU into a corner by setting the deadline date by with we must agree a deal acceptable to both parties, or we have made it clear that we will leave with no deal. We have also made it clear that we will not accept regulatory alignment, that we are leaving the SM and CU and everything that those imply. We are already setting out the parameters of our future immigration policy now that freedom of movement is to end, and gearing up to arrange our own free trade deals around the world. The EU believe mistakenly that we are bothered by their assertions that trade talks cannot begin until we accept that they can continue their current fisheries access to our coastal waters, that we cant have this or that deal unless we accept their conditions that impose a level playing field of rules and regulations that suits them and hampers our progress now that we are free of their chains that bound us.

 

I'd say that the situation looked pretty damned good from a Brexiteer perspective. Having come so close to getting the whole thing derailed just a short few months ago, the Remoaners on here are trying but failing to put a brave face on it.

You missed out that the EU and just about everyone else have more to bargain with than us.

[shurlock]

It still can be, but it takes two to tango.

 

For what it's worth, I've only ever made one prediction on here, which I still stand by. Simply put, there are too many grubby fingers in too many pies for any kind of deal to ever be agreed.

 

You really are special Westie.

 

You do realise that when posters said the Brexiters claims/demands were not feasible and mocked their other statements, it was precisely because they knew that EU was highly likely to reject them, as it made crystal clear from virtually day one. But well done for realising, like the rest of us that a negotiation takes two to tango

Edited 21 February, 2020 by shurlock

[hypochondriac]

You really are special Westie.

 

You do realise that when posters said the Brexiters claims/demands were not feasible and mocked their other statements, it was precisely because they knew that EU was highly likely to reject them, as it made crystal clear from virtually day one. But well done for realising, like the rest of us that a negotiation takes two to tango [emoji38]

Who are you talking about when you say posters?

[shurlock]

Who are you talking about when you say posters?

 

Lots of us (me included).

Edited 21 February, 2020 by shurlock

[badgerx16]

 

I'd say that the situation looked pretty damned good from a Brexiteer perspective.

If what you want is a reduction in GDP, loss of jobs in agriculture and motor manufacturing, a reduction in workers' and environmental protections, and the UK getting shafted by the good old USofA.

[Tamesaint]

If what you want is a reduction in GDP, loss of jobs in agriculture and motor manufacturing, a reduction in workers' and environmental protections, and the UK getting shafted by the good old USofA.

 

.... but .... but "we got our country back ".

[Lord Duckhunter]

If what you want is a reduction in GDP, loss of jobs in agriculture and motor manufacturing, a reduction in workers' and environmental protections, and the UK getting shafted by the good old USofA.

 

It’s over, gone, you’ve lost. Stop refighting the referendum. It’s 2020 not 2016, at what point is it going to dawn on you.

 

 

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[Wes Tender]

.... but .... but "we got our country back ".

 

Who said we had lost our country? I don't recall anybody saying that, apart from you just now. What we get back is summarised in a simple but effective campaign slogan. We get back control of our money, laws, borders and trade. You must have heard it said more than a few times. Didn't you understand what it meant?

[egg]

It’s over, gone, you’ve lost. Stop refighting the referendum. It’s 2020 not 2016, at what point is it going to dawn on you.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's not a fight! We all lose with reduced gdp, and being Trump's *****.

[Wes Tender]

If what you want is a reduction in GDP, loss of jobs in agriculture and motor manufacturing, a reduction in workers' and environmental protections, and the UK getting shafted by the good old USofA.

 

Equally without a mutually beneficial FTA with us, the EU will also suffer a loss in jobs in agriculture and motor manufacturing, not to mention the loss of our contributions towards their kitty. I'd say that there was plenty of incentive for us both the agree a deal. The EU also attempted to arrange a trade deal with the USA. Why would we be more prone to them shafting us than the EU would be? Our workers and environmental protections are often better than the EU's. Perhaps we should insist that they brought their standards up to our level. Next.

[shurlock]

Equally without a mutually beneficial FTA with us, the EU will also suffer a loss in jobs in agriculture and motor manufacturing, not to mention the loss of our contributions towards their kitty. I'd say that there was plenty of incentive for us both the agree a deal. The EU also attempted to arrange a trade deal with the USA. Why would we be more prone to them shafting us than the EU would be? Our workers and environmental protections are often better than the EU's. Perhaps we should insist that they brought their standards up to our level. Next.

 

So you finally accept that there will be trade frictions and services will barely get a look in. Well done.

[Tamesaint]

Who said we had lost our country? I don't recall anybody saying that, apart from you just now. What we get back is summarised in a simple but effective campaign slogan. We get back control of our money, laws, borders and trade. You must have heard it said more than a few times. Didn't you understand what it meant?

 

Les. Have you finally flipped?

 

Where have I just said that we had lost our country ?

Amusing as you are, perhaps you should take a break from this forum. It is not good for you.

[CB Fry]

It’s over, gone, you’ve lost. Stop refighting the referendum. It’s 2020 not 2016, at what point is it going to dawn on you.

 

 

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Yes, let's stop re-fighting the referendum.....

Let's recap on progress so far. Referendum forced onto Cameron. Referendum won, despite the best efforts of the establishment to prevent it via project fear. Brexit seriously under threat through the serially incompetent negotiating of the WA by May and Robbins, a majority remoaner Parliament and a rogue speaker, all doing their utmost to either revoke article 50, or overturn it via a second/third referendum. May replaced by Boris, who wins a stonking majority in the Brexit General Election, imposing the biggest ever electoral defeat on Labour. The remoaner majority in the House is no more and all of those instrumental in trying to overturn article 50, including the rogue speaker, are all gone.

 

We have now left the EU and enter negotiations on the future trading arrangements with the EU, the government having a strong mandate behind them for the first time. At last we are negotiating sensibly from a position of playing those cards that give us an advantage. We have backed the EU into a corner by setting the deadline date by with we must agree a deal acceptable to both parties, or we have made it clear that we will leave with no deal. We have also made it clear that we will not accept regulatory alignment, that we are leaving the SM and CU and everything that those imply. We are already setting out the parameters of our future immigration policy now that freedom of movement is to end, and gearing up to arrange our own free trade deals around the world. The EU believe mistakenly that we are bothered by their assertions that trade talks cannot begin until we accept that they can continue their current fisheries access to our coastal waters, that we cant have this or that deal unless we accept their conditions that impose a level playing field of rules and regulations that suits them and hampers our progress now that we are free of their chains that bound us.

 

I'd say that the situation looked pretty damned good from a Brexiteer perspective. Having come so close to getting the whole thing derailed just a short few months ago, the Remoaners on here are trying but failing to put a brave face on it.

[mack rill]

Wes why you no listen, The few re-moaners on hear think they know more than the 17 odd million who got off their arses and voted OUT!!! Kleenex must of cut down half of Sherwood Forrest by now to fill their boxes.

[badgerx16]

It’s over, gone, you’ve lost. Stop refighting the referendum. It’s 2020 not 2016, at what point is it going to dawn on you.

 

 

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I'm not refighting the referendum, just saying that a no-deal, WTO terms, dive off the cliff edge, as Wes seems to want, will not deliver any of the unicorn sh1t Leave.UK promised.

[badgerx16]

The EU also attempted to arrange a trade deal with the USA. Why would we be more prone to them shafting us than the EU would be? Our workers and environmental protections are often better than the EU's. Perhaps we should insist that they brought their standards up to our level. Next.

The EU's trade with the US is worth far more to both sides than ours, we are in a much weaker position when it comes to facing off with the Americans. And whilst some of our protections might be better than the EUs, I worry that one consequence, ( and intention ), of Brexit has always been to start eroding them to make our economy more 'competitive', ( the Singapore Model ).

[Wes Tender]

So you finally accept that there will be trade frictions and services will barely get a look in. Well done.

 

Show me where I said that there there will be no trade frictions and indeed where I mentioned services. I've always taken the view that after a few bumps in the road whilst we adjusted to our new circumstances, we would forge ahead outside of the EU. I see no reason to change my mind.

[Wes Tender]

Wes why you no listen, The few re-moaners on hear think they know more than the 17 odd million who got off their arses and voted OUT!!! Kleenex must of cut down half of Sherwood Forrest by now to fill their boxes.

[shurlock]

Show me where I said that there there will be no trade frictions and indeed where I mentioned services. I've always taken the view that after a few bumps in the road whilst we adjusted to our new circumstances, we would forge ahead outside of the EU. I see no reason to change my mind.

 

Thanks for clarifying that you think there will be a few bumps in the road and you agree that Brexiters like Dominic Raab who say that regulatory divergence will mean no new checks are chatting s**t. Likewise plans for permanent equivalence. What other guff don’t you believe pal? Are you saying that Brexiters have feeding us s**t? What does holding all the cards mean if all we do is get a Canada-style agreement on similar (or worse) terms? Or having our cake and eat it? Perhaps you can explain what all this means, Les.

Edited 21 February, 2020 by shurlock

[badgerx16]

Wes why you no listen, The few re-moaners on hear think they know more than the 17 odd million who got off their arses and voted OUT!!! Kleenex must of cut down half of Sherwood Forrest by now to fill their boxes.

 

Aren't you worried about demands for continued EU access to our fishing grounds ?

[Wes Tender]

Les. Have you finally flipped?

 

Where have I just said that we had lost our country ?

Amusing as you are, perhaps you should take a break from this forum. It is not good for you.

 

If we were to get our country back, then we must either have lost it, or given it away, mustn't we? I'll decline your advice to take a break from the forum, thanks, although naturally I'm touched by your concern. I'm afraid that if I were to give up posting on this thread, I'd be depriving myself of the pleasure of yanking your chain.

[Wes Tender]

Thanks for clarifying that you think there will be a few bumps in the road and you agree that Brexiters like Dominic Raab who say that regulatory divergence will mean no new checks are chatting s**t. Likewise plans for permanent equivalence. What other guff don’t you believe pal? Are you saying that Brexiters have feeding us s**t? What does holding all the cards mean? Or having our cake and eat it? Perhaps you can explain what all this means, Les.

 

I'm a pragmatist, Gavyn. I've always accepted that there will naturally be some short term disruption caused by our leaving the EU, but I am confident that in the medium to long term, the prospects for the UK are better served by being independent of it. I realise that as a economist, you assessed our future prospects purely on economic grounds, like the treasury and most of the remoaner establishment. I weighed those economic concerns against the other factors involved, our ability as an independent sovereign nation to chart out own course, set our own laws, allow immigration by our rules, negotiate our own trade deals around the world and to cease payments into the EU coffers.

 

Far be it for me to wish to rake over old coals, Brexit having been won, but sh*t was fed into the debate from both sides, and the side wanting to have their cake and eat, it is now very much the EU.

[Johnny Bognor]

Aren't you worried about demands for continued EU access to our fishing grounds ?

 

Badger, I salute you. Probably the best response to any poster on this thread.

 

Of course they want to keep the fish to themselves LOOOOOOL

[Weston Super Saint]

Lots of us (me included).

 

Go for it - post the quotes....

 

I bet you can't, even posts from before the election when it was obvious to everyone that the EU was never going to negotiate.

[shurlock]

Go for it - post the quotes....

 

I bet you can't, even posts from before the election when it was obvious to everyone that the EU was never going to negotiate.

 

Jesus wept. I know you are one of the dimmest posters on here. But the EU made it abundantly clear from the outset that it would never allow the UK to cherrypick the best parts of EU membership - that is enjoy full market access and frictionless trade with EU on the one hand yet be free from its regulation and freedom of movement on the other. To do so would strike at the integrity of the single market and the four freedoms. Your parents must be really proud of you little Westie.

Edited 21 February, 2020 by shurlock

[Batman]

[Lord Duckhunter]

Little Leo not very happy today. Lol....

 

“I met with President Michel and President von der Leyen last night and the proposal on the table is one we can’t accept. Essentially it means Ireland will contribute much more to the EU budget but will actually receive less back in terms of payments to Irish farmers and also funds for regional development and social development”.

 

The cash cow’s moved on mate, welcome to reality.....

 

 

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[Weston Super Saint]

Jesus wept. I know you are one of the dimmest posters on here. But the EU made it abundantly clear from the outset that it would never allow the UK to cherrypick the best parts of EU membership - that is enjoy full market access and frictionless trade with EU on the one hand yet be free from its regulation and freedom of movement on the other. To do so would strike at the integrity of the single market and the four freedoms. Your parents must be really proud of you little Westie.

 

And yet, the cleverest person in the whole wide world told all us dummies about it and can point to numerous posts on this thread highlighting just that, as he's claimed..... Unless you're avoiding digging out said posts as you don't want us to look even more stupid, which wouldn't be like you at all.

[buctootim]

And yet, the cleverest person in the whole wide world told all us dummies about it and can point to numerous posts on this thread highlighting just that, as he's claimed..... Unless you're avoiding digging out said posts as you don't want us to look even more stupid, which wouldn't be like you at all.

 

He did, as did many others. You do the work of digging them out if you really can't recall.

 

It should be bleeding obvious. Self evident that you cant have a single market with everybody operating to different rules because otherwise it becomes, um, 27 different markets. Apparently not bleedin obvious enough.

[Wes Tender]

Little Leo not very happy today. Lol....

 

“I met with President Michel and President von der Leyen last night and the proposal on the table is one we can’t accept. Essentially it means Ireland will contribute much more to the EU budget but will actually receive less back in terms of payments to Irish farmers and also funds for regional development and social development”.

 

The cash cow’s moved on mate, welcome to reality.....

 

 

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And as an aside, they're going to be even less happy when we have taken back control of our coastal waters and the Western EU Atlantic coast fishermen decide that if our territorial waters are closed to them, they had better fish more off Ireland instead.

[Wes Tender]

He did, as did many others. You do the work of digging them out if you really can't recall.

 

It should be bleeding obvious. Self evident that you cant have a single market with everybody operating to different rules because otherwise it becomes, um, 27 different markets. Apparently not bleedin obvious enough.

 

Much as it was bleeding obvious that you can't have a single currency when everybody's economies in it are operating to different levels, eh? Didn't Gavyn want us to be a part of that?

[Wes Tender]

A very good summary of the forthcoming position we hold in the trade negotiations for the benefit of all you remoaners. I know that you are going to love to hear Nigel Farage's take on this, and look forward to hearing your constructive arguments on where you believe he is wrong, and why.

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Much as it was bleeding obvious that you can't have a single currency when everybody's economies in it are operating to different levels, eh? Didn't Gavyn want us to be a part of that?

 

It was bleeding obvious that Boris couldn’t get the WDA reopened. It was bleeding obvious that there was no way of solving the Irish border.

 

It’s going to be Norway, don’t you know. It’s bleeding obvious.

 

 

You think they’d give it a rest.

 

It’s as if December 12th never happened.

 

#borisplayingablinder

 

 

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[Weston Super Saint]

He did, as did many others. You do the work of digging them out if you really can't recall.

 

It should be bleeding obvious. Self evident that you cant have a single market with everybody operating to different rules because otherwise it becomes, um, 27 different markets. Apparently not bleedin obvious enough.

 

It's odd really, that given the open goal of finding a couple of quotes and the most intelligent person in the world can't be bothered!

 

More kipper bunker talk.

 

Is this the new no deal is better than a bad deal?

 

Not sure what your reading and comprehension level is like - hopefully it's better than our resident narcisist's - but this is EXACTLY what I was saying in 2017!

 

I suppose imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

 

There isn't going to be a deal.

 

Anyone who genuinely believes that the expectations of 27 countries - each with their own different agenda - can honestly be met during these negotiations is completely deluded!

 

Way too many fingers in the EU pie for this to be resolved by way of a fair deal for everyone. The next 18 months will be more of the same with each side 'leaking' that the other isn't playing ball until the inevitable split happens without any resolution in place.

[buctootim]

It was bleeding obvious that Boris couldn’t get the WDA reopened. It was bleeding obvious that there was no way of solving the Irish border.

 

It’s going to be Norway, don’t you know. It’s bleeding obvious.

 

The WDA was re-opened because Johnson sold out the unionists and ditched the redline over a border down the Irish Sea - ie he caved.

 

Norway was a prediction of what might happen in the future. I assumed elected Government ministers wouldn't make promises they knew were undeliverable. Turns out they are that low after all. Its not beyond Johnson to make another EU turn whilst declaring it a great victory and the credulous like you will lap it up.

[Wes Tender]

 

Norway was a prediction of what might happen in the future. I assumed elected Government ministers wouldn't make promises they knew were undeliverable. Turns out they are that low after all. Its not beyond Johnson to make another EU turn whilst declaring it a great victory and the credulous like you will lap it up.

Norway was just you faced with several potential outcomes, making your best guess as to which would come about, and getting it spectacularly wrong. Norway was the remoaners' softest Brexit, or what was known as Brino. It was never going to be acceptable to the Brexit side in the House or in the Country. Boris isn't going to make a U turn that will ever deliver a Norway option, so it's about time you accepted that with good grace. If you believed for one second that any of the Brexiteers on here would lap it up if he did, you make yourself look even more stupid.

[buctootim]

Norway was just you faced with several potential outcomes, making your best guess as to which would come about, and getting it spectacularly wrong. Norway was the remoaners' softest Brexit, or what was known as Brino. It was never going to be acceptable to the Brexit side in the House or in the Country. Boris isn't going to make a U turn that will ever deliver a Norway option, so it's about time you accepted that with good grace. If you believed for one second that any of the Brexiteers on here would lap it up if he did, you make yourself look even more stupid.

 

Not really. Johnson is still promising we can get more benefits than the Norway option but with no obligations. So yer choice is deciding whether he lying about the benefits or lying about the obligations.

[shurlock]

It's odd really, that given the open goal of finding a couple of quotes and the most intelligent person in the world can't be bothered!

 

 

I don’t intend to disappear down one of your excruciatingly dim rabbit holes, so will keep this short. This from 2018 took me 5 minutes to find. Alas I will never get that time back.

 

 

By Canada plus plus plus, what the jihadists really mean and want is across-the-board mutual recognition of standards and regulations. Basically it amounts to the UK having freedom to set rules while demanding the EU grant it market access on the UK’s word that it’s standards are aligned with the EU. It’s basically two fingers up to the tenets of collective decision making and enforcement at the heart of the single market. Clearly that will never fly - never mind it being near unprecedented in international trade.

 

The EU made it clear from the start that it would never let the UK have its cake and eat it, that is, enjoy the trade benefits of EU membership without commensurate obligations (ECJ oversight, FoM etc) -see Barnier’s presentation- the same one that according to LD we remainers have taken great pleasure in quoting throughout the process (yet more proof). Nonetheless the claims we’ve heard from Brexiters over the past few years and even now in cases -no additional regulatory checks, mutual recognition, permanent equivalence, exact same benefits etc- are all variants of the same deluded, arrogant and misleading belief that the UK could do precisely that. Didn’t you ever read the links to Ivan Rogers speeches I approvingly posted saying the same thing?

 

No doubt all this will go over your little head (btw what is the difference between feasible and achievable - my English thesaurus doesnt do Westie-speak?). As a consolation prize of sorts, in my rapidfire search, I did stumble upon some of your ‘back catalogue’ (e.g. on immigration). Admittedly it’s not a patch on zlotygate which is still unmatched in its sheer dribbling thickness- but it does illustrate a startling and disturbing tendency to wade into others arguments and quite literally not have a clue what’s going on.

 

Have a good weekend and don’t overexert yourself, little Westie.

Edited 22 February, 2020 by shurlock

[Wes Tender]

Not really. Johnson is still promising we can get more benefits than the Norway option but with no obligations. So yer choice is deciding whether he lying about the benefits or lying about the obligations.

 

I'm sure that you will be happy to post his comments which back up what you say. Be certain to post something that says "the same" in connection with the Norway benefits and also "no obligations". When you say he is still promising this, you must mean very recently.

[Wes Tender]

The EU made it clear from the start that it would never let the UK have its cake and eat it, that is, enjoy the trade benefits of EU membership without commensurate obligations (ECJ oversight, FoM etc) -see Barnier’s presentation- the same one that according to LD we remainers have taken great pleasure in quoting throughout the process (yet more proof). Nonetheless the claims we’ve heard from Brexiters over the past few years and even now -no additional regulatory checks, mutual recognition, permanent equivalence, exact same benefits etc- are all variants of the same deluded, arrogant and misleading belief that the UK could do precisely that. Didn’t you ever read the links to Ivan Rogers speeches I approvingly posted saying the same thing?

 

 

It's a good thing that you are getting your ego massaging dose of hubris done early in the day, Gavyn, along with the usual accompanying insults. You can now go through the rest of the day with a smug, self-satisfied smile on your face. It's telling that you continuance remoaners are having to fight battles from 2018 and thereabouts. It's time you moved on. History and events have overtaken you. What we wanted then and what is likely to be the outcome now are entirely different scenarios. You might as well try and argue about May's Lancaster House speech, Brexit means Brexit, the merits of Norway or Switzerland type arrangements. All those options are toast, although one stance from back then, "No deal is better than a bad deal" still has validity currently. If the EU continue to believe that as we get close to 31st December without a deal we will fold, then that is where we will be.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The WDA was re-opened because Johnson sold out the unionists and ditched the redline over a border down the Irish Sea - ie he caved.

 

Norway was a prediction of what might happen in the future. I assumed elected Government ministers wouldn't make promises they knew were undeliverable. Turns out they are that low after all. Its not beyond Johnson to make another EU turn whilst declaring it a great victory and the credulous like you will lap it up.

 

Lol.

 

You’re pathetically trying to make out The EU have us where they want us. Complete pony. The last thing they wanted was a basic FTA with us outside of their orbit. But that’s exactly what’s going to happen. You were wrong then, and you’re wrong now. Have the good grace to admit it.

 

As Frostie says, “we just want what other independent countries have”.

 

 

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[shurlock]

It's a good thing that you are getting your ego massaging dose of hubris done early in the day, Gavyn, along with the usual accompanying insults. You can now go through the rest of the day with a smug, self-satisfied smile on your face. It's telling that you continuance remoaners are having to fight battles from 2018 and thereabouts. It's time you moved on. History and events have overtaken you. What we wanted then and what is likely to be the outcome now are entirely different scenarios. You might as well try and argue about May's Lancaster House speech, Brexit means Brexit, the merits of Norway or Switzerland type arrangements. All those options are toast, although one stance from back then, "No deal is better than a bad deal" still has validity currently. If the EU continue to believe that as we get close to 31st December without a deal we will fold, then that is where we will be.

 

As I say, I have no wish to disappear down rabbit holes inhabited by the furiously hard of thinking Westie but -to paraphrase you- he was the one raking over old coals (see his above posts). Unwisely, perhaps, I indulged him but I will follow your advice, draw a line and move on.

 

Of course, when a final agreement is reached (assuming we don’t revert to WTO terms), it will be perfectly right and legitimate to hold up that deal against earlier claims, not least during the recent election campaign. I still don’t understand why you’ve stopped talking about Canada +++ which you previously talked up but now seem to be lowering your sights. Truly odd I must say. What do you think of the UK’s current demand for permanent equivalence - surely as it’s consistent with Canada +++ and involves no loss of sovereignty, you must be fully supportive? And that’s leaving aside a new customs and regulatory border in the Irish Sea (our own country) that we were told no PM could ever countenance. Mind you Johnson has told us that there will be no new checks or paperwork. What are your thoughts on the NI protocol’s sections on state aid which appear to have UK-wide implications (I assume you know what I’m talking about)? As you can see all this is relevant to the here and now. But I’m happy to wait and see what the government delivers before undertaking that assessment.

Edited 22 February, 2020 by shurlock

[Weston Super Saint]

I don’t intend to disappear down one of your excruciatingly dim rabbit holes, so will keep this short. This from 2018 took me 5 minutes to find. Alas I will never get that time back.

 

Nice one, well done.

 

You came to the same conclusion as I did, it just took you a year longer to do so!

 

Luckily, I don't have to pretend I'm more clever than you when you provide the proof for me

[Guided Missile]

Self evident that you cant have a single market with everybody operating to different rules because otherwise it becomes, um, 27 different markets. Apparently not bleedin obvious enough.

Explain why BMW's have the steering wheel on the right hand side then, sh!t4br@ins....

[buctootim]

Explain why BMW's have the steering wheel on the right hand side then, sh!t4br@ins....

 

Jesus wept. You're beyond parody. One of those over written comedy characters nobody believes in.

[badgerx16]

Explain why BMW's have the steering wheel on the right hand side then, sh!t4br@ins....

 

So that it is easier to drive them in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Japan, India, Pakistan, Thailand, and Singapore.

[Weston Super Saint]

So that it is easier to drive them in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Japan, India, Pakistan, Thailand, and Singapore.

 

England and Ireland?