Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Nolan]

But how does that impact the post-Brexit trade deal ? Are you saying the EU will cave in because they need to dump the butter mountain on the UK ?

The EU has to sell to us.

 

They can't just sell internally, they can't sell to Russia due to embargo, and the can't sell to Turkey or North African states as they can grow fruit for even cheaper than the Europeans.

 

If they don't sell to us, there will be a LOT of EU job losses.

[Johnny Bognor]

In the EU, the reality of Brexit and it's effect on trade is finally going to bite. A great and concise article in this morning's DT, here.

 

Finally, the boot is on the other foot...

 

Indeed.... just received this in an email from the Dept for International Trade...

 

[TABLE=width: 100%, align: right]

[TR]

[TD]UK Global Tariff consultation[/TD]

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[TR]

[TD][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]The UK left the European Union on 31 January 2020.

 

For the first time in almost fifty years the UK is free to set its tariff rates on imported goods. To inform the development of the new UK Global Tariff, the Government has launched a four-week public consultation and is seeking your views. The consultation began on 6 February 2020 and closes on 5 March 2020 at 23:59 GMT.

 

This consultation seeks:

 

• views on a potential series of amendments to the EU’s Common External Tariff to create a bespoke UK tariff regime;
  
• specific feedback on individual products or commodity codes of importance to you (including the corresponding tariff rate); and
  
• information on your interactions with Most Favoured Nation tariffs and the importance of tariffs to sectors that are relevant to you.
  

The bespoke UK tariff regime will enter into force on 1 January 2021 and replace the EU’s Common External Tariff.

 

To take part in the consultation and have your say on the new UK Global Tariff, visit GOV.UK.[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[shurlock]

Only four weeks?

 

Obviously the government hasn’t seen the incredible expertise on these threads - embodied by Baldrick, Les and John; otherwise it would have done a proper public consultation. Or maybe not

[Batman]

[Wes Tender]

Only four weeks?

 

Obviously the government hasn’t seen the incredible expertise on these threads - embodied by Baldrick, Les and John; otherwise it would have done a proper public consultation. Or maybe not

 

Probably a better idea for you to read the thoughts and strategy of the UK's negotiator in the trade deal talks, rather than sniping at individuals on a football club forum to massage your overblown ego. Thank God we've got a proper leaver at the forefront, rather than than the grossly incompetent remoaners, May and Robbins.

 

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/02/full-text-top-uk-brexit-negotiator-david-frost-on-his-plans-for-an-eu-trade-deal/

[Johnny Bognor]

Only four weeks?

 

Obviously the government hasn’t seen the incredible expertise on these threads - embodied by Baldrick, Les and John; otherwise it would have done a proper public consultation. Or maybe not

 

Maybe they have, which is why they only need 4 weeks for the rest of the country :lol::lol:

[Guided Missile]

Maybe they have, which is why they only need 4 weeks for the rest of the country :lol::lol:

They're hardly likely to use the incredible expertise of the Benny Hill of economists, Gavyn Davies, are they? The man who thought the ERM ("Eternal Recession Mechanism") was a good idea.

(Actually, it was a good idea...for George Soros).

[Wes Tender]

Only four weeks?

 

Obviously the government hasn’t seen the incredible expertise on these threads - embodied by Baldrick, Les and John; otherwise it would have done a proper public consultation. Or maybe not

 

I can tell by your emoji that you are very angry.

[badgerx16]

The EU has to sell to us.

 

They can't just sell internally, they can't sell to Russia due to embargo, and the can't sell to Turkey or North African states as they can grow fruit for even cheaper than the Europeans.

 

If they don't sell to us, there will be a LOT of EU job losses.

 

But in terms of the produce the Russians have embargoed,, what will the UK need, or be willing, to buy over and above what we already do, especially if it competes directly with our own production ?

[Wes Tender]

 

Also celebrating the one year anniversary of the formation of TIGers, there is a huge vote of thanks from Guido for the significant part that they played in helping to get a proper Brexit across the line. I had almost forgotten that the vote to keep us within the CU had come within just three votes of succeeding. Thank God that there were enough remoaners like these whose preference was for having Brexit stopped altogether via either a revocation vote or a second "people's vote"

 

https://order-order.com/2020/02/18/thank-tiggers-saving-britain/

[shurlock]

Also celebrating the one year anniversary of the formation of TIGers, there is a huge vote of thanks from Guido for the significant part that they played in helping to get a proper Brexit across the line. I had almost forgotten that the vote to keep us within the CU had come within just three votes of succeeding. Thank God that there were enough remoaners like these whose preference was for having Brexit stopped altogether via either a revocation vote or a second "people's vote"

 

https://order-order.com/2020/02/18/thank-tiggers-saving-britain/

 

Les are you a fan of eugenics?

[badgerx16]

Barnier says that the UK cannot have a 'Canada style' deal. Of course, due to the Russian dairy embargo, the EU is merely posturing.

[shurlock]

Barnier says that the UK cannot have a 'Canada style' deal. Of course, due to the Russian dairy embargo, the EU is merely posturing.

 

I’m still waiting for frictionless trade, a similar trading relationship outside the EU as inside it, permanent equivalence and all those wonderful things we were promised. Canada just seems like a massive anticlimax.

[Wes Tender]

Les are you a fan of eugenics?

 

No, why would I be, Gavyn? You're far the more likely candidate. One only has to look at the sort of stuff you post, like this:-

 

To repeat, it is a basic empirical fact that younger voters are more likely to have voted remain; it is another undisputed empirical fact that more educated voters are more likely to have voted remain. And it is a further basic, undisputed, empirical fact that younger voters are more likely to have a degree (i.e. be more educated).

 

Then add the catalogue of abuse you hurl at any Brexiteer who dares to argue against your hubristic opinions on an almost daily basis, and it isn't difficult to imagine you believing that eugenics would have been a good idea for many who voted to leave your beloved EU. You clearly despise them. You're halfway there already.

[Wes Tender]

Barnier says that the UK cannot have a 'Canada style' deal. Of course, due to the Russian dairy embargo, the EU is merely posturing.

 

The response from our chief negotiator, David Frost:-

 

He reiterated Mr Johnson's desire for a Canada-type agreement and said if it could not be agreed, the UK would trade on the basic international terms it currently follows with Australia.

 

Australian basic international terms it is then. Simples. Over to you Barnier. Happy with that?

[buctootim]

The response from our chief negotiator, David Frost:-

 

 

 

Australian basic international terms it is then. Simples. Over to you Barnier. Happy with that?

 

Thats why your posts are so risible. Until today you didn't even know the UK had different terms with Australia. You certainly have never read the documents. Yet you lap it up as 'good thing'. Huzzah Wes! Huzzah! You must have a nose ring, given how much you get led.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Barnier says that the UK cannot have a 'Canada style' deal. Of course, due to the Russian dairy embargo, the EU is merely posturing.

 

What happened to Barrnier’s legendary slides that remoaners took great pleasure quoting earlier in the process.

 

 

Illustrating points Barnier made to EU leaders to start negotiating a post-Brexit trading relationship with London, the chart showed a series of descending steps associated with different countries' levels of access to the EU single market.

 

 

At the top was EU membership, next membership of the European Economic Area (EEA). Switzerland followed that, etc etc , down to Canada. Or as the media we’re briefed, directly quoting Barnier “a free trade pact like that with South Korea or Canada.”

 

Was Barnier lying then, or now?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[badgerx16]

No country in the world currently trades with it's major trading partner on WTO terms.

[shurlock]

I was led to believe that the Barnier PowerPoint was a load of ****. We’re the UK, we hold all the cards, we have German carmakers and Italian Prosecco producers on our side, we’ll get a bespoke deal, we’ll get a better deal than the Canadians while giving up less. Where’s all the fighting talk gone lads?

 

#climbdown

[shurlock]

Thats why your posts are so risible. Until today you didn't even know the UK had different terms with Australia. You certainly have never read the documents. Yet you lap it up as 'good thing'. Huzzah Wes! Huzzah! You must have a nose ring, given how much you get led.

 

Like when Les and fellow swivels were obsessed with Canada +++? Whatever happened to +++?

[CB Fry]

What happened to Barrnier’s legendary slides that remoaners took great pleasure quoting earlier in the process.

 

 

Illustrating points Barnier made to EU leaders to start negotiating a post-Brexit trading relationship with London, the chart showed a series of descending steps associated with different countries' levels of access to the EU single market.

 

 

At the top was EU membership, next membership of the European Economic Area (EEA). Switzerland followed that, etc etc , down to Canada. Or as the media we’re briefed, directly quoting Barnier “a free trade pact like that with South Korea or Canada.”

 

Was Barnier lying then, or now?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Is lying bad, now?

[buctootim]

What happened to Barrnier’s legendary slides that remoaners took great pleasure quoting earlier in the process.

 

 

Illustrating points Barnier made to EU leaders to start negotiating a post-Brexit trading relationship with London, the chart showed a series of descending steps associated with different countries' levels of access to the EU single market.

 

 

At the top was EU membership, next membership of the European Economic Area (EEA). Switzerland followed that, etc etc , down to Canada. Or as the media we’re briefed, directly quoting Barnier “a free trade pact like that with South Korea or Canada.”

 

Was Barnier lying then, or now?

 

 

 

 

Should listen to what he said rather than what is reported. He didn't say the UK couldn't have a trade agreement. He simply said the nature of the agreement wouldn't be the same as Canada or Japan because the trade is different - ie lots of perishable foods, just in time manufacturing parts and services which geographically remote countries don't have.

[badgerx16]

Should listen to what he said rather than what is reported. He didn't say the UK couldn't have a trade agreement. He simply said the nature of the agreement wouldn't be the same as Canada or Japan because the trade is different - ie lots of perishable foods, just in time manufacturing parts and services which geographically remote countries don't have.

You forgot the EU fishing fleets plying Canadian and Japanese territorial waters.

Edited 18 February, 2020 by badgerx16
3 'a's in Canada

[hypochondriac]

You forgot the EU fishing fleets plying Candian and Japanese territorial waters.

Surely that's a factor that should help us in negotiations?

[Lord Duckhunter]

“The European Union’s chief Brexit negotiator has repeatedly insisted that Britain cannot have a bespoke deal and that the future relationship must be based on a pre-existing arrangement between the bloc and a non-EU country.”

 

So if it can’t be like Canada or Japan , which country is it going to be like then?

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[badgerx16]

“The European Union’s chief Brexit negotiator has repeatedly insisted that Britain cannot have a bespoke deal and that the future relationship must be based on a pre-existing arrangement between the bloc and a non-EU country.”

 

So if it can’t be like Canada or Japan , which country is it going to be like then?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements

[hypochondriac]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements

"you can't have a bespoke deal, you have to have a pre-existing deal but you can't have that pre-existing deal you can only have the one we choose" isn't exactly a reasonable stance in a negotiation. Either we are distinct enough from other countries that we need something bespoke or we aren't. Sounds a fair bit like cake and eating it from the EU. Edited 18 February, 2020 by hypochondriac

[Guided Missile]

“The European Union’s chief Brexit negotiator has repeatedly insisted that Britain cannot have a bespoke deal and that the future relationship must be based on a pre-existing arrangement between the bloc and a non-EU country.”

 

So if it can’t be like Canada or Japan , which country is it going to be like then?

 

Australia

[CB Fry]

The Prime Minister's press office is now tweeting this wailing sh ite. I mean, really?

 

 

In 2017 the EU showed on their own slide that a Canada type FTA was the only available relationship for the UK. Now they say it’s not on offer after all. @MichelBarnier what’s changed? https://t.co/ve8zeAqbSZ

[Wes Tender]

Thats why your posts are so risible. Until today you didn't even know the UK had different terms with Australia. You certainly have never read the documents. Yet you lap it up as 'good thing'. Huzzah Wes! Huzzah! You must have a nose ring, given how much you get led.

 

You're wrong. There was no reason to mention it before, was there? It has only entered the conversation recently by Boris and Frost.

 

When are you going to cough up the £50 for charity because we aren't going to have a Norway style deal, Timmy? Surely you cannot believe that there is a snowball's chance in hell of it happening now? You be a good boy and pay it now, and if incredibly it does come about, I'll double it. Fair enough?

[buctootim]

You're wrong. There was no reason to mention it before, was there? It has only entered the conversation recently by Boris and Frost.

 

When are you going to cough up the £50 for charity because we aren't going to have a Norway style deal, Timmy? Surely you cannot believe that there is a snowball's chance in hell of it happening now? You be a good boy and pay it now, and if incredibly it does come about, I'll double it. Fair enough?

 

Plenty of twists and turns to come yet. Still sure we're going to go for WTO?

Edited 18 February, 2020 by buctootim

[buctootim]

"you can't have a bespoke deal, you have to have a pre-existing deal but you can't have that pre-existing deal you can only have the one we choose" isn't exactly a reasonable stance in a negotiation. Either we are distinct enough from other countries that we need something bespoke or we aren't. Sounds a fair bit like cake and eating it from the EU.

 

They're setting out their red lines. Just as they did shortly after May triggered Article 50. Did you think they'd cave?

 

2017

[hypochondriac]

They're setting out their red lines. Just as they did shortly after May triggered Article 50. Did you think they'd cave?

 

2017

Yes I'm aware. The point is you can't call for safeguards that aren't present in other trade deals and also deny the UK a bespoke deal. If there are unique geographical and economic circumstances with the UK then there needs to be a unique deal that factors that in. Understandably the EU wants to protect themselves but for us to make some level playing field commitments we would need to get something out of it too. Why would we agree to essentially give up any competitive advantage for nothing in return when gaining that competitive advantage was one of the whole reasons for brexit? Hardly mutually satisfactory. In an ideal world, the UK would agree to some level playing field commitments- as long as they don't remove our ability to do trade deals with the rest of the world- and a generous deal on fisheries and in return the EU will agree to a bespoke deal that allows good market access to some of the sectors most important to the UK.

 

The question is will the EU prefer to deny the UK that reasonable option and potentially have a country on their doorstep determined to use their newly gained powers to gain an advantage over them or would they prefer to curb the powers of the UK in return for a deal that the UK actually wants?

Edited 19 February, 2020 by hypochondriac

[Wes Tender]

Plenty of twists and turns to come yet. Still sure we're going to go for WTO?

 

The bet wasn't about WTO though, was it? It was about you being willing to put money on us doing a Norway style deal. Are you man enough to admit that you got that wrong and be prepared to do the honourable thing and pay the £50 to benefit a charity?

[Winnersaint]

Genuine one for the Brexiters. Which piece of EU imposed labour protection legislation are you most looking forward to losing and why? Same for environmental protection for consumer question. Not wanting to pick an argument or anything, just interested as currently teaching and tutoring Global Systems and Governance at A Level Geography at present and want some ideas counter to mine that I can paraphrase to show both sides. Genuine request. Thanks

[CB Fry]

We're just like Canada we are.

[Johnny Bognor]

Genuine one for the Brexiters. Which piece of EU imposed labour protection legislation are you most looking forward to losing and why? Same for environmental protection for consumer question. Not wanting to pick an argument or anything, just interested as currently teaching and tutoring Global Systems and Governance at A Level Geography at present and want some ideas counter to mine that I can paraphrase to show both sides. Genuine request. Thanks

 

Interesting article for environmental policy... is it there to protect the environment or EU industry?

 

https://www.ft.com/content/0432eb26-15f2-11ea-9ee4-11f260415385

[Wes Tender]

http://www.eurointelligence.com/public/briefings/2020-02-18.html

 

Another interesting article regarding the current sabre-rattling between us and the EU, level playing fields, no deal etc. Why the EU need to be disabused of any feeling that we could be bluffing over our willingness to accept no deal, rather than one that surrenders to Barnier's level playing field anchored in EU law.

[hypochondriac]

We're just like Canada we are.

Tbf though it was the EU themselves who mentioned Canada. We obviously are very different from Canada which is why we need a bespoke deal which takes that into account and a compromise needs to be struck between giving the EU some level playing field safeguards and allowing Britain the manoeuvrability to strike other trade deal and change things to give themselves some advantages. Surely that's just common sense? Edited 19 February, 2020 by hypochondriac

[badgerx16]

Tbf though it was the EU themselves who mentioned Canada. We obviously are very different from Canada which is why we need a bespoke deal which takes that into account and a compromise needs to be struck between giving the EU some level playing field safeguards and allowing Britain the manoeuvrability to strike other trade deal and change things to give themselves some advantages. Surely that's just common sense?

In September 2018 Boris set out the concept of a "Super Canada" deal.

[Weston Super Saint]

In September 2018 Boris set out the concept of a "Super Canada" deal.

 

Would the word 'super' make it exactly the same as the Canada deal or something potentially different?

[buctootim]

Interesting article for environmental policy... is it there to protect the environment or EU industry?

 

https://www.ft.com/content/0432eb26-15f2-11ea-9ee4-11f260415385

 

Cant't read the article - but the short answer is its doing both. High wage economies cant compete on price so they compete on higher added value aided by import duties. You could have a system where by the cheapest dirtiest products are sourced from the lowest cost sweatshops you can find. But then you wipe out your domestic industries, drive down wages, drive up unemployment and end up living in something like the environmental disaster that is Chennai.

Edited 19 February, 2020 by buctootim

[buctootim]

Would the word 'super' make it exactly the same as the Canada deal or something potentially different?

 

Would make it bigger and more wide ranging. Covering things like say f'instance, alignment, agriculture, just in time, labour standards.....

[Lord Duckhunter]

In September 2018 Boris set out the concept of a "Super Canada" deal.

 

Which is 10 months after Barnier told EU leaders that Britain’s only alternative to a ‘no deal’ Brexit was a Canada-style trading arrangement.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Weston Super Saint]

Would make it bigger and more wide ranging. Covering things like say f'instance, alignment, agriculture, just in time, labour standards.....

 

So a 'bespoke' deal then?

[buctootim]

Which is 10 months after Barnier told EU leaders that Britain’s only alternative to a ‘no deal’ Brexit was a Canada-style trading arrangement.

 

Meh. He used Canada to illustrate an EU -Third country trade deal. There was never any suggestion any two deals would be the same. The EU were clear exactly what a trade deal would look like very shortly after May triggered Article 50 - one based on reciprocity.

Edited 19 February, 2020 by buctootim

[buctootim]

So a 'bespoke' deal then?

 

Yes of course. They are all bespoke to the extent that each country wants something different. That doesnt mean though that, for example, we could start reshipping cheap chlorinated antibiotic laden chicken to the EU and they would dismantle their standards for us, especially if we werent allowing in similar products from them.

 

The whole point is to create ca level playing field. You run a pub / restaurant I think. Your place only survives because your local competitors also have to pay at least minimum wage, have premises inspected for hygiene, pay business rates etc. You wouldnt accept it if the pub next door suddenly stopped doing that, undercutting you.

Edited 19 February, 2020 by buctootim

[buctootim]

The bet wasn't about WTO though, was it? It was about you being willing to put money on us doing a Norway style deal. Are you man enough to admit that you got that wrong and be prepared to do the honourable thing and pay the £50 to benefit a charity?

 

Haha, you get more desperate by the day Wes. I'll pay when the Fat Lady sings and deal is signed and ratified.

[Wes Tender]

Haha, you get more desperate by the day Wes. I'll pay when the Fat Lady sings and deal is signed and ratified.

 

Naturally you will attempt to put off admitting that you got the outcome badly wrong for as long as possible. You obviously miss the irony accusing me of desperation, when I expect that there is nobody else on here who believes for one second that we will end up with the Norway option. Yet you are prepared to hold out a forlorn hope that it might just still happen, so your credibility as a forecaster is therefore shot to pieces.

[buctootim]

Naturally you will attempt to put off admitting that you got the outcome badly wrong for as long as possible. You obviously miss the irony accusing me of desperation, when I expect that there is nobody else on here who believes for one second that we will end up with the Norway option. Yet you are prepared to hold out a forlorn hope that it might just still happen, so your credibility as a forecaster is therefore shot to pieces.

 

You're desperate because you keep on urging the bookies to pay up because your bet is ahead at half time. I agree Norway looks less likely than two years ago. But then so does WTO. Johnson has successfully boxed himself in. The last Parliament voted a number of times against no deal. It remains to be seen whether this Parliament will do the same