Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Batman]

Where is Shurlock hiding?

[doddisalegend]

Where is Shurlock hiding?

More to the point I've just seen Hypo is banned what happened there?

 

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[Wes Tender]

I'm assuming Wes won't be voting for Boris and his "surrender" deal anyway he will surely be team Farage all the way for the "Clean break Brexit" that he craves.

 

Wrong. If Eastleigh appointed a remoaner candidate at the selection meeting I'm attending on Thursday evening, then yes, I would vote Brexit. But there is no way that they will, so I will be voting Conservative.

[Guided Missile]

Updating the OP, the good news keeps coming and contrary to the MSM, there will be a FTA with the US, a prospect I highlighted over three years ago:

 

The United States will be offering every support possible to the British Government in taking the UK out of the EU. not least because the uncertainty created by any further delays to Brexit would continue to have a negative impact on US companies, which employ over a million Britons. American investors have been preparing for Brexit for the last three years, and are awaiting the opportunities created by a free trade agreement that will generate jobs on both sides of the Atlantic.

 

Worth a read, as it is written by Nile Gardiner, a former aide to Margaret Thatcher, God bless her...

[doddisalegend]

Wrong. If Eastleigh appointed a remoaner candidate at the selection meeting I'm attending on Thursday evening, then yes, I would vote Brexit. But there is no way that they will, so I will be voting Conservative.

So you're voting for Boris's deal even though you said it was a surrender deal a couple of weeks ago?

 

Looks like CB fry was right about the leavers being happy with the pig if it got a new coat of lipstick..

 

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[badgerx16]

........a prospect I highlighted over three years ago:.,..

 

If you reined back on the self promotion you might gain a little more credibility. All you are doing is claiming credit for ideas that you are simply re-hashing by means of copying and pasting.

[Tamesaint]

If you reined back on the self promotion you might gain a little more credibility. All you are doing is claiming credit for ideas that you are simply re-hashing by means of copying and pasting.

 

He predicts so much and so often it must be nice for him to get something right.

 

A pity that he can't apologise for being so wrong about the Grenfell Tower victims. Perhaps he is Jacob Rees Mogg in disguise!

[Plastic]

Wrong. If Eastleigh appointed a remoaner candidate at the selection meeting I'm attending on Thursday evening, then yes, I would vote Brexit. But there is no way that they will, so I will be voting Conservative.

 

Assume this is a purely ideological choice, as you cant possibly believe the ever-absent Mims contributed anything of value?

[Guided Missile]

Assume this is a purely ideological choice, as you cant possibly believe the ever-absent Mims contributed anything of value?

Just for your information, Mims bravely spoke out on child protection and her direct intervention in the Liberal Democrats protection of a suspected sex offender, Mark McCormick, who had access to children through his role as Chairman of Bursledon Parish Council, led to his imprisonment for 17 years. His victims included a poster on this site and many others in the area, including one young lad who committed suicide and a young women from Netley whom he raped when she was 16. If you want the grim details, read this local news article after he was sentenced.

The Liberal Democrats protected this animal, despite knowing he was a suspected paedophile. They did just the same years ago with Cyril Smith.

Mims was a great asset to Bursledon residents, whatever their politics.

[Plastic]

Just for your information, Mims bravely spoke out on child protection and her direct intervention in the Liberal Democrats protection of a suspected sex offender, Mark McCormick, who had access to children through his role as Chairman of Bursledon Parish Council, led to his imprisonment for 17 years. His victims included a poster on this site and many others in the area, including one young lad who committed suicide and a young women from Netley whom he raped when she was 16. If you want the grim details, read this local news article after he was sentenced.

The Liberal Democrats protected this animal, despite knowing he was a suspected paedophile. They did just the same years ago with Cyril Smith.

Mims was a great asset to Bursledon residents, whatever their politics.

 

I was aware of the case, but unaware of her involvement. Believe me, I have no love for the LibDem EBC.

Good for her.

[Wes Tender]

So you're voting for Boris's deal even though you said it was a surrender deal a couple of weeks ago?

 

Looks like CB fry was right about the leavers being happy with the pig if it got a new coat of lipstick..

 

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I'm a pragmatist. I'll vote for the best way to leave the EU that is feasible, and then campaign to get the best free trade deal afterwards. There is scope to make improvements to the deal, which we haven't yet signed. A strong pro-Brexit Conservative government could achieve that.

 

Which way are you going to vote? For the party that is too confused to know what they want for Brexit, or the other lot the Un-liberal Anti-democrats who wish to ignore the electorate's wishes in the referendum?

[Wes Tender]

Assume this is a purely ideological choice, as you cant possibly believe the ever-absent Mims contributed anything of value?

 

Mims was a very good Constituency MP.

[doddisalegend]

I'm a pragmatist. I'll vote for the best way to leave the EU that is feasible, and then campaign to get the best free trade deal afterwards. There is scope to make improvements to the deal, which we haven't yet signed. A strong pro-Brexit Conservative government could achieve that.

 

Which way are you going to vote? For the party that is too confused to know what they want for Brexit, or the other lot the Un-liberal Anti-democrats who wish to ignore the electorate's wishes in the referendum?

 

Green party I'm vegan, eco warrior, who lives in a yurt...

 

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[Tamesaint]

Just for your information, Mims bravely spoke out on child protection and her direct intervention in the Liberal Democrats protection of a suspected sex offender, Mark McCormick, who had access to children through his role as Chairman of Bursledon Parish Council, led to his imprisonment for 17 years. His victims included a poster on this site and many others in the area, including one young lad who committed suicide and a young women from Netley whom he raped when she was 16. If you want the grim details, read this local news article after he was sentenced.

The Liberal Democrats protected this animal, despite knowing he was a suspected paedophile. They did just the same years ago with Cyril Smith.

Mims was a great asset to Bursledon residents, whatever their politics.

 

Today of all days considering what has happened with Cairns is not the day for Tories to gloat about covering up sex scandals.

[norwaysaint]

Which way are you going to vote? For the party that is too confused to know what they want for Brexit, or the other lot the Un-liberal Anti-democrats who wish to ignore the electorate's wishes in the referendum?

 

Just out of interest, do you really see things in such simplistic, black and white terms, or do you just argue that way to make your point? I mean, I wouldn't back the conservatives at the moment, because I don't feel they represent the best interests, but I am absolutely able to see why some people want that and why they want brexit. It's just that I don't think it's for the best at the moment. I'm always surprised at people who don't see the the other side of the coin and understand it, even if it doesn't work for them.

 

This goes for both sides, by the way, not just tories and leavers, the other side are as bad. Just anybody who sees things in definites and simplistic terms, when it's clearly more complicated than that, seems less trustworthy (maybe the wrong word, but I'm tired), because they aren't able to see anything from any position but their own.

 

Is it that hard to put yourselves in someone else's place and recognise that there is a valid point there, it's just not your preference? Remainers should be able to see that many people really do want to leave Europe and aren't just being dense. They've thought it through after looking at the evidence. Leavers should be able to see that was quite a bit of subterfuge and the referendum was flawed, as well as the EU having many benefits. It doesn't make your argument invalid to recognise that the other side have a case too. You just feel that the merits of your choice are greater. It's not as simple as right/wrong, good/bad, smart/stupid etc

 

Maybe it's just less fun to debate that way...

[Weston Super Saint]

In what way was the referendum 'flawed'? It was a pretty straightforward vote wasn't it? Surely the election committee gave the go ahead?

[norwaysaint]

In what way was the referendum 'flawed'? It was a pretty straightforward vote wasn't it? Surely the election committee gave the go ahead?

 

For many people, voting for Brexit with a deal was very different to Brexit with no deal, for others, as we've seen among leavers, the type of deal can change their mind about leaving. If Leave had won by a large margin, I would say that wasn't an issue, but as it was incredibly narrow, I think it is an issue. I would guess there are probably enough people deterrred by certain outcomes that it would push them to the other side and we would have had a different outcome.

 

Note that my post doesn't say that I think that you should you should agree with them that a new referendum should take place. That's not my point at all. It's just a complete denial that there is some merit in that viewpoint and that it is valid. I think it is strange not to acknowledge that it's not ridiculous, but that you disagree with it.

 

What I find odd is people who are too blinkered to even recognise that the other viewpoint exists and holds some water. The simplistic, black and white way of arguing just creates more frustration for both sides.

[sadoldgit]

In what way was the referendum 'flawed'? It was a pretty straightforward vote wasn't it? Surely the election committee gave the go ahead?

 

For starters it was just supposed to be “advisory.” Big mistake.

There should have been a stipulation that a meaningful majority (60/40 for example) was needed in order to leave.

As we know now, the issues are far more complex than we were first led to believe. There could have been another provision for a second referendum at the time to ensure that the country had a final say in any deal struck by Parliament.

We didn’t just join the EU, we joined with conditions. How do we expect to just leave?

This has been a total cluster**** from the beginning and Johnson’s stupid phrase about get Brexit done really isn’t helping. It is going to take years to get it done in which time it will cost this country a fortune, but still the blinkered leavers think we can just walk away with no consequences.

[sadoldgit]

Serious question Weston. Why are you so desperate to leave the EU?

[hypochondriac]

More to the point I've just seen Hypo is banned what happened there?

 

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Fake news.

[doddisalegend]

Fake news.

No your profile deffo said banned the other day. What did you do to upset the mods I guess you had to grovel to get back on?

 

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[hypochondriac]

No your profile deffo said banned the other day. What did you do to upset the mods I guess you had to grovel to get back on?

 

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Sent some hurtful and mean comments about soggy for which I received a temporary ban. No grovelling required.

[Wes Tender]

Serious question Weston. Why are you so desperate to leave the EU?

 

That isn't a serious question at all. Over half of the electorate voting in the referendum wanted to leave the EU. Are you going to ask them all their reasons? Every one of them had their own personal reasons for that decision. Just have the decency to accept that whatever those reasons were, they were entitled to hold them and the likes of you should respect them, instead of questioning them three and a half years later. Next you'll be wanting to know everybody's reasons for their vote in the General Election.

[Wes Tender]

For starters it was just supposed to be “advisory.” Big mistake.

There should have been a stipulation that a meaningful majority (60/40 for example) was needed in order to leave.

As we know now, the issues are far more complex than we were first led to believe. There could have been another provision for a second referendum at the time to ensure that the country had a final say in any deal struck by Parliament.

We didn’t just join the EU, we joined with conditions. How do we expect to just leave?

This has been a total cluster**** from the beginning and Johnson’s stupid phrase about get Brexit done really isn’t helping. It is going to take years to get it done in which time it will cost this country a fortune, but still the blinkered leavers think we can just walk away with no consequences.

 

Suck it up, loser

[norwaysaint]

That isn't a serious question at all. Over half of the electorate voting in the referendum wanted to leave the EU. Are you going to ask them all their reasons? Every one of them had their own personal reasons for that decision. Just have the decency to accept that whatever those reasons were, they were entitled to hold them and the likes of you should respect them, instead of questioning them three and a half years later. Next you'll be wanting to know everybody's reasons for their vote in the General Election.

 

It seems to be a reasonable thing for him to ask when he's debating with you. What I object to is when you give your reasons and they are discounted as being because you are misinformed, wilfully dense, stupid or xenophobic, which I'm sure is frustrating to you as well, as it feels like nobody is hearing your voice. However, I'd hope you'd also be able to understand that those opposing you also have valid grounds, that aren't just stupid or (re)moaning.

[Wes Tender]

It seems to be a reasonable thing for him to ask when he's debating with you. What I object to is when you give your reasons and they are discounted as being because you are misinformed, wilfully dense, stupid or xenophobic, which I'm sure is frustrating to you as well, as it feels like nobody is hearing your voice. However, I'd hope you'd also be able to understand that those opposing you also have valid grounds, that aren't just stupid or (re)moaning.

 

I'm not asking anybody for their reasons for voting remain three and a half years after the event. I'd consider that to be a complete waste of time and insulting, as it implies that I don't respect their reasons. What a pity that the likes of Soggy aren't big enough to accept the democratic referendum vote and move on, as everybody did for over 40 years after the last one. Remoaners like him bleated about how unfair it all was, starting from 24th June 2016 and haven't stopped since. They're like little babies throwing their rattles out of the pram.

[Sheaf Saint]

Suck it up, loser

 

You have regularly (and rightly) called out other people for using childish insults instead of debating in a reasoned, adult manner.

 

And in these four words you have just waived the right to ever claim that moral high ground again.

Edited 7 November, 2019 by Sheaf Saint

[norwaysaint]

I'm not asking anybody for their reasons for voting remain three and a half years after the event. I'd consider that to be a complete waste of time and insulting, as it implies that I don't respect their reasons. What a pity that the likes of Soggy aren't big enough to accept the democratic referendum vote and move on, as everybody did for over 40 years after the last one. Remoaners like him bleated about how unfair it all was, starting from 24th June 2016 and haven't stopped since. They're like little babies throwing their rattles out of the pram.

 

But don't you think that you're lack of acknowledgement of a reasonable argument (even though you don't agree) is part of the problem? You dismiss the issue as non existent, when there clearly is something in it, which just means that of course it will be repeated, as you give more of an impression of not understanding than disagreeing. If someone disagrees with me, I generally accept a different point of view. If someone claims not to see my point at all, I'll keep explaining it and think that the fault is in their ability to "get it".

 

As an intelligent person, you must be able to recognise some flaws in how the referendum was approached, but you're also right that remain voters largely ignored that while they thought a win was a near certainty.

To get respect from the other side, you need to recognise their point of view as valid, as well as pointing out why it's your own is stronger. Otherwise you'll never shake off the"wilfully ignorant" and stupid label.

[doddisalegend]

Sent some hurtful and mean comments about soggy for which I received a temporary ban. No grovelling required.

Thought that would be the case. You two do seem to have a rather weird hard on for each other. It's all a bit creepy, love obsessed, stalker the way you two follow each other around the messages boards desperate to get each others attention. But hey what ever floats your boats..

 

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[Wes Tender]

But don't you think that you're lack of acknowledgement of a reasonable argument (even though you don't agree) is part of the problem? You dismiss the issue as non existent, when there clearly is something in it, which just means that of course it will be repeated, as you give more of an impression of not understanding than disagreeing. If someone disagrees with me, I generally accept a different point of view. If someone claims not to see my point at all, I'll keep explaining it and think that the fault is in their ability to "get it".

 

As an intelligent person, you must be able to recognise some flaws in how the referendum was approached, but you're also right that remain voters largely ignored that while they thought a win was a near certainty.

To get respect from the other side, you need to recognise their point of view as valid, as well as pointing out why it's your own is stronger. Otherwise you'll never shake off the"wilfully ignorant" and stupid label.

 

Look, how long do you think it is viable to go round and round the houses, day after day, week, month and year after year b*tching about a democratically taken decision? I don't care a jot whether I could gain respect for continuing to rake over old coals. But I certainly have no respect at all for those who aren't capable of shrugging their shoulders and admitting that although it wasn't the decision they wanted, they would nevertheless accept it, because that is what democracy is all about.

[norwaysaint]

Look, how long do you think it is viable to go round and round the houses, day after day, week, month and year after year b*tching about a democratically taken decision? I don't care a jot whether I could gain respect for continuing to rake over old coals. But I certainly have no respect at all for those who aren't capable of shrugging their shoulders and admitting that although it wasn't the decision they wanted, they would nevertheless accept it, because that is what democracy is all about.

So, how will you take it if democratic procedure and democratically taken decisions, based on the arguments to which you have, in theory, put your fingers in your ears and dismissed, eventually comes through and overturns the result of the referendum and brexit is revoked? There is that possibility, although it's unlikely. Would you shrug and say "okay, that's that then"?

 

Hypothetically of course.

[Sheaf Saint]

Look, how long do you think it is viable to go round and round the houses, day after day, week, month and year after year b*tching about a democratically taken decision? I don't care a jot whether I could gain respect for continuing to rake over old coals. But I certainly have no respect at all for those who aren't capable of shrugging their shoulders and admitting that although it wasn't the decision they wanted, they would nevertheless accept it, because that is what democracy is all about.

 

And yet you are no different. Because the referendum returned the result that you wanted, you have spent the last 3 and a half years metaphorically sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "LAALAALLAAAA" whenever anyone tries to point out how flawed the process was.

 

What do you say to the fact that BoJo is currently sitting on and refusing to publish a report into Russian interference in the referendum?

[Guided Missile]

So, how will you take it if democratic procedure and democratically taken decisions, based on the arguments to which you have, in theory, put your fingers in your ears and dismissed, eventually comes through and overturns the result of the referendum and brexit is revoked? There is that possibility, although it's unlikely. Would you shrug and say "okay, that's that then"?

 

Hypothetically of course.

The only party promising to revoke the referendum result are the Lib Dems. If they win the election, I will personally travel to Oslo and buy you dinner, dressed as Jo Swinson....

 

[sadoldgit]

Look, how long do you think it is viable to go round and round the houses, day after day, week, month and year after year b*tching about a democratically taken decision? I don't care a jot whether I could gain respect for continuing to rake over old coals. But I certainly have no respect at all for those who aren't capable of shrugging their shoulders and admitting that although it wasn't the decision they wanted, they would nevertheless accept it, because that is what democracy is all about.

 

And yet Nigel Farage has stated on several occasions that he would still be fighting to leave if the vote had been reversed and I am sure you would still be on here arguing for Brexit. This isn’t about the basics of democracy. It is about people fighting for what they believe is best for this country and the country is split down the middle. A reasonable way forward would appear to be some kind of soft Brexit but I doubt if you Brexiteers would be prepared to compromise.

[norwaysaint]

The only party promising to revoke the referendum result are the Lib Dems. If they win the election, I will personally travel to Oslo and buy you dinner, dressed as Jo Swinson....

 

 

So if brexit is eventually revoked, for example as a result of a second referendum, you would accept it?

[sadoldgit]

Thought that would be the case. You two do seem to have a rather weird hard on for each other. It's all a bit creepy, love obsessed, stalker the way you two follow each other around the messages boards desperate to get each others attention. But hey what ever floats your boats..

 

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I really object to being lumped in with him. He has been stalking me for years despite my best efforts to shake him off. Even when he finally goes to far and rightly gets banned they let him back on. This place was a better site without him. It’s back to the usual stalking and trolling I guess.

[sadoldgit]

Suck it up, loser

 

Says it all.

[sadoldgit]

That isn't a serious question at all. Over half of the electorate voting in the referendum wanted to leave the EU. Are you going to ask them all their reasons? Every one of them had their own personal reasons for that decision. Just have the decency to accept that whatever those reasons were, they were entitled to hold them and the likes of you should respect them, instead of questioning them three and a half years later. Next you'll be wanting to know everybody's reasons for their vote in the General Election.

 

It is a very serious question. You clearly feel very strongly about leaving and I would like to know why. I am debating the issue with you, not everyone else who voted leave. For a start it would not be practical. But I also would like to be able to understand why someone who is so adamant he is right bases his thought process on. So come on. Have the courage of your convictions and give me your reasons for wanting out. This is a golden opportunity to make your case. Go for it.

[Guided Missile]

So if brexit is eventually revoked, for example as a result of a second referendum, you would accept it?

I would accept that democracy has failed in the UK and emigrate to the US, to be honest...I wouldn't whine like a b!tch, as the Remainers on this thread do.

[doddisalegend]

I really object to being lumped in with him. He has been stalking me for years despite my best efforts to shake him off. Even when he finally goes to far and rightly gets banned they let him back on. This place was a better site without him. It’s back to the usual stalking and trolling I guess.

It seems to me that many threads end up becoming a Soggy vs Hypo borefest. Why don't you two just put each other on ignore if you find each other so irritating? The only reason I can think is you both enjoy it.

 

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[hypochondriac]

Or even better maybe just stick to talking about brexit which is the point of the thread?

[norwaysaint]

I would accept that democracy has failed in the UK and emigrate to the US, to be honest...I wouldn't whine like a b!tch, as the Remainers on this thread do.

 

How could a referendum be undemocratic? It would only go that way if it were the will of the people. Are you saying you wouldn't accept the will of the people if enough of them felt the first referendum misled them and they changed their votes? Because there are certainly quite a few out there who feel that way. It doesn't sound like you would happily accept a referendum result if it went against you either. So you aren't so different from those remainers after all.

[Weston Super Saint]

Serious question Weston. Why are you so desperate to leave the EU?

 

Who says I'm 'desperate' to leave the EU - certainly not something I've ever said!

 

FWIW I have been a strong advocate for ever closer ties within the EU to the point that my preference would be to have a completely united Europe with one leader / governor / ruler (call it what you wish), one parliament, one currency and one unified language. The EU as it is (in my humble opinion) is a disparate collection of greedy politicians from countries with their own seperate agendas and no common goals.

 

For me, Brexit was about being 'all-in' or 'all-out'. Since (again, in my humbe opinion), my 'ideal' Europe is never going to be realistic and there are no signs that it will happen in my / my kids / my grandkids lifetimes, that is the reason I voted out.

 

Sorry if that doesn't conform to the 'thick, racist' stereotype, but those are my reasons.

[norwaysaint]

Who says I'm 'desperate' to leave the EU - certainly not something I've ever said!

 

FWIW I have been a strong advocate for ever closer ties within the EU to the point that my preference would be to have a completely united Europe with one leader / governor / ruler (call it what you wish), one parliament, one currency and one unified language. The EU as it is (in my humble opinion) is a disparate collection of greedy politicians from countries with their own seperate agendas and no common goals.

 

For me, Brexit was about being 'all-in' or 'all-out'. Since (again, in my humbe opinion), my 'ideal' Europe is never going to be realistic and there are no signs that it will happen in my / my kids / my grandkids lifetimes, that is the reason I voted out.

 

Sorry if that doesn't conform to the 'thick, racist' stereotype, but those are my reasons.

 

Nothing wrong with that answer. Interesting to read. Thanks for elaborating.

[sadoldgit]

It seems to me that many threads end up becoming a Soggy vs Hypo borefest. Why don't you two just put each other on ignore if you find each other so irritating? The only reason I can think is you both enjoy it.

 

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What would you do if someone trolled you for years? I have him on ignore but it isn’t that easy to ignore someone who constantly targets your posts. And no, I don’t enjoy it. I have been waiting for the mods to do something about it and to be fair to Lighthouse he finally did. Hopefully that will be enough to stop him carrying on with his vendetta.

[Guided Missile]

How could a referendum be undemocratic? It would only go that way if it were the will of the people. Are you saying you wouldn't accept the will of the people if enough of them felt the first referendum misled them and they changed their votes? Because there are certainly quite a few out there who feel that way. It doesn't sound like you would happily accept a referendum result if it went against you either. So you aren't so different from those remainers after all.

I didn't say I wouldn't accept the result of a second referendum. I just said I wouldn't want to live in a "democracy" that didn't honour the result of the first one, nor the two main parties representing 85% of the electorate not honouring the manifestos upon which their MP's stood.

You make some strange arguments, but I guess an indefensible position forces you to be creative in justifying them...you sound like a bloody Labour supporter trying to explain their policy on Brexit.

[sadoldgit]

Who says I'm 'desperate' to leave the EU - certainly not something I've ever said!

 

FWIW I have been a strong advocate for ever closer ties within the EU to the point that my preference would be to have a completely united Europe with one leader / governor / ruler (call it what you wish), one parliament, one currency and one unified language. The EU as it is (in my humble opinion) is a disparate collection of greedy politicians from countries with their own seperate agendas and no common goals.

 

For me, Brexit was about being 'all-in' or 'all-out'. Since (again, in my humbe opinion), my 'ideal' Europe is never going to be realistic and there are no signs that it will happen in my / my kids / my grandkids lifetimes, that is the reason I voted out.

 

Sorry if that doesn't conform to the 'thick, racist' stereotype, but those are my reasons.

 

You seemed to be a very committed Brexiteer hence my comment about being desperate to leave. Happy to retract my comment and thank you for answering my question. As a remainer I wouldn’t want closer ties ( a united Europe) but have always thought we should have joined the Euro. I think a lot of people worry about closer ties and losing our identity but when you travel round Europe I don’t think you see that happening and I don’t think there is an appetite for it over the channel. For me I think that we aren’t going to get a better economic deal than the one we have with the 2nd biggest market on the planet and it makes perfect sense to be a part of a union on our doorstep rather than trade with people halfway round the world. We have all read the negativity about the EU over the years and it comes as no surprise that most of it is bull****. Yes, it isn’t perfect. Nothing is. What we end up with won’t be but I remember only too well the years we tried to get in and the positivity when it finally happened only to see my three children being desolated about leaving. They have enjoyed working abroad and are very pro the union. They have grown up with us as part of Europe and really don’t understand why people don’t want to be part of it. Sorry, I’m waffling on but I would love to have someone give me a reason to feel better about Brexit. Sadly the longer it drags on the more I feel we are making a huge mistake.

[norwaysaint]

I didn't say I wouldn't accept the result of a second referendum. I just said I wouldn't want to live in a "democracy" that didn't honour the result of the first one, nor the two main parties representing 85% of the electorate not honouring the manifestos upon which their MP's stood.

You make some strange arguments, but I guess an indefensible position forces you to be creative in justifying them...you sound like a bloody Labour supporter trying to explain their policy on Brexit.

 

My questionwas hypothetical. Calm down. I actually believe they should have accepted the deal.

[Guided Missile]

My questionwas hypothetical. Calm down. I actually believe they should have accepted the deal.

Oh, I see. You were arguing a hypothetical position that you didn't believe in. What a waste of bandwidth...

[Jonnyboy]

Oh, I see. You were arguing a hypothetical position that you didn't believe in. What a waste of bandwidth...

 

Glad to hear you will be leaving this country soon.