Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[aintforever]

We will get The government people voted for. Kind of how it should work?

 

Brilliant contribution, well done. I think we all know how the system works though.

[Guided Missile]

Again, don't be silly. We both know he asked for an extension and it was given. He didn't sign it, but he did it. Don't embarrass yourself by hanging onto something clearly so weak. It's okay to back Boris, but don't run and hide from what we all know.

Boris Johnson didn't request an extension.

 

There, I'm not running away and I'm not embarrassed...

[sadoldgit]

Brilliant contribution, well done. I think we all know how the system works though.

 

We can always rely on Batman for an insightful post. He might have been better off saying we get the Government we deserve.

[Guided Missile]

I am not an old socialist. I have only voted Labour once and that was a tactical vote. However I want the NHS protected.

...and as if by magic, this article turns up to explain what you mean by protecting the NHS:

 

An NHS manager is being paid rates of almost £2,000 a day and allowed to work from his home in Marbella, an investigation has found. The “astronomical” sums, revealed in Freedom of Information disclosures, are being paid by a health board which has a deficit of more than £40 million. Under the deal agreed by the Labour-run Welsh NHS, management consultant Philip Burns will earn more than £360,000 for a nine-month contract which allows him to work a day a week from his Spanish home.

 

No carbs before Marbs...

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Boris Johnson didn't request an extension.

 

There, I'm not running away and I'm not embarrassed...

 

Judging by your posting history on here I think it's fair to assume that nothing embarrases you.

[Tamesaint]

Judging by your posting history on here I think it's fair to assume that nothing embarrases you.

 

You have to have a thick skin to attend Pompey Poly.

 

In fact

 

You have to be pretty thick to attend Pompey Poly.

[Guided Missile]

Meanwhile, at the Shadow Cabinet meeting:

 

That full Diane Abbott quote at Shadow Cabinet according to one in the room was: “The PLP were in the tea room and my office crying about an election saying Jeremy should stand down in 2017. So frankly the PLP can go **** themselves."

 

I always liked Diane Abbott and the way she towed the party line.

 

[badgerx16]

We will get The government people voted for. Kind of how it should work?

"The Christmas you get, you deserve".

[sadoldgit]

...and as if by magic, this article turns up to explain what you mean by protecting the NHS:

 

 

 

No carbs before Marbs...

 

What has that got to do with selling it off to America?

[Wes Tender]

You have to have a thick skin to attend Pompey Poly.

 

In fact

 

You have to be pretty thick to attend Pompey Poly.

 

Excuse my possible ignorance on the matter, but it was a considerable time since I finished my education and the number of Universities has increased substantially since many a polytechnic was upgraded to be called a university. But surely a degree at a certain level is the same as that at the same level at any other university isn't it? Or is it different from the schools system whereby a GCSE or A Level obtained from a state school is directly equivalent to one obtained in one of the top Public Schools?

If that is indeed the case, then you come across as a bit of a snob if I might say so.

[shurlock]

Excuse my possible ignorance on the matter, but it was a considerable time since I finished my education and the number of Universities has increased substantially since many a polytechnic was upgraded to be called a university. But surely a degree at a certain level is the same as that at the same level at any other university isn't it? Or is it different from the schools system whereby a GCSE or A Level obtained from a state school is directly equivalent to one obtained in one of the top Public Schools?

If that is indeed the case, then you come across as a bit of a snob if I might say so.

 

You and GM are out in force today. It’s like an episode of the walking dead

 

Needless to say, Les, you’re talking complete tosh (and in all seriousness you know it). Different degrees from different institutions are not the same - you just have to look at wages and labour market outcomes to appreciate that. Oxbridge, Russell Group, jokes about useless media degrees ring any bells? While GCSE/A-levels vary to some extent reflecting differences in subject and exam board they are far more standardised and regulated than university degrees. Touch a raw nerve pal?

Edited 28 October, 2019 by shurlock

[norwaysaint]

Boris Johnson didn't request an extension.

 

There, I'm not running away and I'm not embarrassed...

Of course he did, that's why you got one. You do seem to be a bit ashamed, but you really don't need to be, like Duckhunter said above, everyone knows he didn't want to, so it doesn't affect his position. I don't get why it upsets you. He still has the same position, he was just forced by the law.

[Guided Missile]

Excuse my possible ignorance on the matter, but it was a considerable time since I finished my education and the number of Universities has increased substantially since many a polytechnic was upgraded to be called a university. But surely a degree at a certain level is the same as that at the same level at any other university isn't it? Or is it different from the schools system whereby a GCSE or A Level obtained from a state school is directly equivalent to one obtained in one of the top Public Schools?

If that is indeed the case, then you come across as a bit of a snob if I might say so.

A multi-millionaire is a multi-millionaire, whatever University he went to, Les...

[Guided Missile]

What has that got to do with selling it off to America?

About as much as your post did, Pops...

[sadoldgit]

About as much as your post did, Pops...

 

What, my post about the worries about the future of the NHS in the hands of the Tories?

[badgerx16]

A multi-millionaire is a multi-millionaire, whatever University he went to, Les...

 

[Guided Missile]

What, my post about the worries about the future of the NHS in the hands of the Tories?

What has that got to do with selling it off to America?

[Jonnyboy]

And STILL she beat Corbyn. The media and establishment will not accept him as PM.

 

Correct

[spyinthesky]

Two minor points:

 

• The railways are already in state ownership, so there's nothing to "renationalise".
  
• The richest 1% of taxpayers, pay 27% of the total tax.
  

It is apparent that your comments about "not for profit" mean you still believe in the magic money tree....

 

GM

You are well informed man but I must query your statement on Railway ownership.

Network Rail is operated as an arms length public body of the Dept of Transport.

However the 20+ Train Operating Companies are more or less all privately owned and there would be a significant cost to the public purse to re-nationalise them.

[Guided Missile]

GM

You are well informed man but I must query your statement on Railway ownership.

Network Rail is operated as an arms length public body of the Dept of Transport.

However the 20+ Train Operating Companies are more or less all privately owned and there would be a significant cost to the public purse to re-nationalise them.

No cost to "re-nationalise" the Train Operating Companies if you want to do that. Nationalisation could take place on a gradual basis as each existing rail franchise comes up for renewal - this would lower the financial cost of a transfer of ownership.

[Weston Super Saint]

What a shock!

 

No GE as the useless MPs have voted to save their own skins....

[Unbelievable Jeff]

What a shock!

 

No GE as the useless MPs have voted to save their own skins....

 

I think you'll find the problem is that they didn't vote...

[Weston Super Saint]

70 of them did....

[sadoldgit]

https://inews.co.uk/news/health/nhs-drugs-cost-brexit-trade-deal-usa-820816

[Lord Duckhunter]

Unbelievable, some Labour chump interviewed on sky stating we can’t have a winter election in case the weather is poor. Then ended the interview saying “the sooner he goes the better”.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[sadoldgit]

On Channel 4 at 8pm tonight Dispatches - Trump’s plan for the NHS

 

As if by magic John!

[sadoldgit]

Unbelievable, some Labour chump interviewed on sky stating we can’t have a winter election in case the weather is poor. Then ended the interview saying “the sooner he goes the better”.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Plenty of cross party MPs saying the same thing about campaigning in winter. The longer Johnson is PM the more people will see what a liability he is so I can see the sense in drawing it out a bit longer.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

70 of them did....

 

Makes no difference, still no majority.

[CB Fry]

Operation Yellowhammer has been shut down.

[Batman]

Corbyn declares that we cannot allow Boris To remain as PM

 

His solution? Abstain which means Boris will continue to remain as PM

 

Then there was another Labour MP claiming that a general election is an act of voter suppression. WTF!

 

She went on to say that a December vote is even more suppressive.

This MP won her seat by winning a by-election in 2011. Guess which month?

[Weston Super Saint]

Makes no difference, still no majority.

 

You seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing - are you soggy in disguise?

 

That was exactly my point, that the spineless, self serving MPs that really have no chance of being re-elected are voting - and abstaining - against a GE in the hope that they can keep their jobs and lucrative expense accounts a little longer.

 

More filibustering from what is turning out to be a pointless house of commons.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

You seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing - are you soggy in disguise?

 

That was exactly my point, that the spineless, self serving MPs that really have no chance of being re-elected are voting - and abstaining - against a GE in the hope that they can keep their jobs and lucrative expense accounts a little longer.

 

More filibustering from what is turning out to be a pointless house of commons.

 

These people could earn 10 times what they do in Parliament if they went into proper jobs - you don't become an MP for the money as they don't earn good wages.

[sadoldgit]

Corbyn declares that we cannot allow Boris To remain as PM

 

His solution? Abstain which means Boris will continue to remain as PM

 

Then there was another Labour MP claiming that a general election is an act of voter suppression. WTF!

 

She went on to say that a December vote is even more suppressive.

This MP won her seat by winning a by-election in 2011. Guess which month?

 

Fortunately he can do little damage whilst he doesn’t have a majority.

[Batman]

Fortunately he can do little damage whilst he doesn’t have a majority.

 

This whole situation is damaging.

 

If he is as bad for us as you say, he will be ousted in a few weeks, surely?

[sadoldgit]

This whole situation is damaging.

 

If he is as bad for us as you say, he will be ousted in a few weeks, surely?

 

The whole situation has been damaging since the referendum. I would love for him to be ousted but unfortunately many of this country’s voters seem to have a Trump mentality where they will quite happily vote for a pathetic narcissistic charlatan because they will say what they want to hear. Get Brexit Done sums it up. Getting Brexit Done is going to take years yet Johnson will have us believe that it will all be wrapped up once he gets his vote in Parliament. He will also have the backing of the right wing press so we can expect daily hatchet on Corbyn and the Labour Party. Apparently all you need to get elected now is charisma. Policies don’t matter.

[rallyboy]

The big thing I've learned tonight is that people like Chris Grayling are so skilled they could easily earn more than £1.4m a year if they had proper jobs.

[sadoldgit]

So Corbyn will get grief for not supporting a 12th December election. Meanwhile the DUP, who the Tories paid a lot of money to buy their support, also failed to support the motion - but that is not an issue.

[buctootim]

What’s even more depressing is that people worry about Corbyn becoming PM in an era when we have had Blair, Brown, Cameron, May and Johnson. Can he really be that much worse than this bunch?

 

Domestically Blair was an awesome PM. Overseas, hm not so much. The others were largely steady state or ineffectual - both are a hell of a lot better than being doctrinaire.

[benjii]

These people could earn 10 times what they do in Parliament if they went into proper jobs - you don't become an MP for the money as they don't earn good wages.

 

MP wages are low compared to the importance of the job. It’s not true to say that most of them would be earning £750k if they weren’t MPs though. I used to work with someone who became an MP and he was just a junior pen-pusher.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

MP wages are low compared to the importance of the job. It’s not true to say that most of them would be earning £750k if they weren’t MPs though. I used to work with someone who became an MP and he was just a junior pen-pusher.

 

Maybe a slight exaggeration, but a lot have come from very high paying jobs to go into Politics, and if they left would go back to similar.

 

You see the roles that MPs that have left the house have gone into, and they certainly aren't pen-pushing roles.

Edited 29 October, 2019 by Unbelievable Jeff

[Guided Missile]

On Channel 4 at 8pm tonight Dispatches - Trump’s plan for the NHS

 

As if by magic John!

Usual total load of b0ll0x and fake news by the anti-Trump media. This issue has nothing to do with Trump and everything to do with patent expiry dates in the US vs the EU. Still, let's all deny the major Pharma companies a profit. The cost to develop one new drug is $2.6 billion; worse still, the approval rate for drugs entering clinical development is less than 12%. Those are the costs and risks and a socialist like you shaking his magic money tree won't help develop new drugs to combat disease. Capitalism develops better solutions for mankind, not some moral crusade with no reward for the risk involved.

With regard to the drug mentioned, Humira, the reason the drug is cheaper in the EU is that the European patent expired prior to the US patent, which is set to expire in 2023. Adalimumab, the active ingredient was discovered in Cambridge as a result of work funded by the Medical Research Council. This government body still receives a 5% royalty on sales under the US patent.

Read the truth about the NHS and its adalimumab deal here, in your old paper. You might believe that, but then again I doubt it will fit with your addled narrative based on watching telly. Typical dogmatic socialist who should go to Venezuela where the United Nations estimated in 2019 that 2.8 million Venezuelans have healthcare needs, 300,000 are at risk of dying with cancer, diabetes or HIV as they have not had access to medicine for more than a year, and preventable diseases like diptheria, malaria, measles and tuberculosis are rising in 2019, along with heptatitis A.

[Wes Tender]

On Channel 4 at 8pm tonight Dispatches - Trump’s plan for the NHS

 

As if by magic John!

 

Channel 4, eh? That bastion of impartial, unbiased political reporting are interviewing a local Oxfordshire pharmacist in order to fabricate as many slurs as they can against Trump and the Conservative government, in the hope that gormless, naive idiots like you will believe it to be factual. When it comes down to expert opinion on the complexities of the implications for our NHS following a trade deal with the USA, just pop down to the local chemist for a knowledgeable briefing.

 

I understand that in retaliation, the Express are to send a journo to interview a newsagent in the same village and ask him for his views on how the economy would fare under a Corbyn government.

[shurlock]

When making absolutely zero sense, go for the Hail Mary and throw Venezuela into the mix

 

#fückwitforever

[OldNick]

You see the roles that MPs that have left the house have gone into, and they certainly aren't pen-pushing roles.

why is that? Nothing to do with the contacts they have to get contracts etc

[sadoldgit]

I’ve come to the conclusion that you either work for the Express or the Mail. Sadly it is people like you who vote for people like Johnson and are ruining this country. Despite your childish attempts to discredit the programme, there should be enough there to ring warning bells, even for blinkered right wingers like yourself. Taken with the numerous warnings coming from people within the NHS there is clearly plenty to be concerned about. The naive people are those who think that a weak UK isn’t going to get royally shafted by Trump in any future trade deals. The special relationship ******** is long dead.

[sadoldgit]

Usual total load of b0ll0x and fake news by the anti-Trump media. This issue has nothing to do with Trump and everything to do with patent expiry dates in the US vs the EU. Still, let's all deny the major Pharma companies a profit. The cost to develop one new drug is $2.6 billion; worse still, the approval rate for drugs entering clinical development is less than 12%. Those are the costs and risks and a socialist like you shaking his magic money tree won't help develop new drugs to combat disease. Capitalism develops better solutions for mankind, not some moral crusade with no reward for the risk involved.

With regard to the drug mentioned, Humira, the reason the drug is cheaper in the EU is that the European patent expired prior to the US patent, which is set to expire in 2023. Adalimumab, the active ingredient was discovered in Cambridge as a result of work funded by the Medical Research Council. This government body still receives a 5% royalty on sales under the US patent.

Read the truth about the NHS and its adalimumab deal here, in your old paper. You might believe that, but then again I doubt it will fit with your addled narrative based on watching telly. Typical dogmatic socialist who should go to Venezuela where the United Nations estimated in 2019 that 2.8 million Venezuelans have healthcare needs, 300,000 are at risk of dying with cancer, diabetes or HIV as they have not had access to medicine for more than a year, and preventable diseases like diptheria, malaria, measles and tuberculosis are rising in 2019, along with heptatitis A.

 

I don’t expect companies not to make a profit. The issue here (clearly) is the NHS’s ability to negotiate best prices once sucked into a trade deal with the US. Surely as a red blooded dyed in the wool capitalist you can see that this will not be good for the NHS and for the UK as a whole? Potentially the money we save on membership to the EU could all go to the pharma giants in the US. Good for the UK? I don’t think so. We are heading down the same road as the US in terms of unaffordable health care. You and Wes really need to spend more time in your local surgeries or A & E wards.The socialists that you appear to have such sustain for want to improve the NHS for the benefit of our society, not to boosts profits even more for US pharma companies.

[sadoldgit]

Oh and John, a tip for you. If you want to be taken seriously don’t use the term “fake news.” As soon as anyone, especially Trump says it you know that they are in dodgy ground.

[Wes Tender]

I’ve come to the conclusion that you either work for the Express or the Mail. Sadly it is people like you who vote for people like Johnson and are ruining this country. Despite your childish attempts to discredit the programme, there should be enough there to ring warning bells, even for blinkered right wingers like yourself. Taken with the numerous warnings coming from people within the NHS there is clearly plenty to be concerned about. The naive people are those who think that a weak UK isn’t going to get royally shafted by Trump in any future trade deals. The special relationship ******** is long dead.

 

Were you talking to me, Soggy? I run my own business, thanks. People like me are ruining the country? I'm one of those constituting a substantial percentage of the electorate holding similar views, so suck it up, that's democracy for you. I accept that because you would happily ignore the result of the referendum that you are not a democrat, so pardon me if I choose to denigrate the validity of your opinions on the subject. Apparently a Conservative Government led by Johnson would ruin the country, but presumably you don't think that a Labour Government under Corbyn would?

 

There should be enough there in that interview with a local pharmacist to ring alarm bells about the future of the NHS? Comedy Gold. The naive people are those who fail to realise that we have been royally shafted by the EEC/EU since we joined, but increasingly since we voted to leave. The future special relationship with the EU looks bleak indeed when we become a major competitor to them right on their own doorstep.

 

You crease me up with your Guardian indoctrinated claptrap.

[shurlock]

Pharma companies, lobbyists on Capitol Hill and the Trump administration absolutely hate the fact that as a single payer, the UK Government is able to negotiate with pharmaceutical companies to set prices en bloc. Imagine that: governments using their unique clout as a large customer to negotiate better terms? Paradoxically Medicare, the US federal government’s health insurance programme for people aged 65 years and older, is prohibited from doing this by law.

 

The US government and lobbyists also hate the fact that the UK’s National Institute for Clinical Excellence (NICE) which evaluates and makes recommendations about which drugs should be available, puts a heavy emphasis on cost effectiveness in its decision-making. Whereas narrow producer interests see a conspiratorial technical barrier to trade, most people appreciate that cost -along with safety and efficacy- is an important element of any sensible and sustainable policy and social welfare analysis.

 

As for the suggestion that pharma R&D is all about breakthrough innovations, that’s pony. In some cases, that’s certainly true but many new medicines are actually pretty similar to existing products and have no real therapeutic advance -never mind they are often subsidised, in part or whole, by the taxpayer through R&D tax credits and other policy instruments. I suggest a special someone has been drinking the kool aid and getting high on their own supply

Edited 29 October, 2019 by shurlock

[sadoldgit]

No, I don’t think that a Labour Government would ruin the country. They certainly cannot do any worse than Cameron, May and Johnson. Still with the rabid right wing press on your side you could well end up foisting Johnson on us for another 5 years. Dear God! Have you notice how little notice your media of choice have made of Johnson’s failed promise to take us out of the EU by 31st October? If it had been Corbyn who failed do spectacularly he would be vilified on the front of the Sun, Express,Mail, Telegraph and Times. All we get with Johnson is news of another failed attempt to get a decision in Parliament with no criticism whatsoever. The Sun even manage to get another pop at putting a chicken picture of Corbyn on the front page. Why no poss take of Johnson not actually being dead in a ditch? Far funnier and far more relevant.

 

And yes, I believe that any who voted for Johnson as PM and who votes him back is is guilty of ruining this country. It is called freedom of speech. Suck it up.