Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[CB Fry]

As an MP he had every right and was one of many who played a role in the peace protest. To try and make him out as some kind of terrorist is the lazy characterisation of the right wing press. I worked in London during the height of the IRA bombings and I for one are very happy that some people made the effort to engage in a process that led to a cease fire. One of those people was Corbyn.

 

No one is making him out to be a terrorist. It's just pitifully thick contributors to this forum like you and aintfotever making that link.

 

But he played no role whatsoever in the Northern Ireland peace process that led the the ceasefire. No role, at all.

 

Because as someone so awfully "engaged" in the "process" that "led to the ceasefire" there would be countless records and images of the many meetings he had with unionist groups and those connected to unionism's extremist organisations. Because that's what he does right? He's so brave to have "unpalatable" conversations with those he disagrees with. So he must have "made the effort" to do that, right?

 

Some people "made the effort". He, by all measures, by all standards, did not.

[sadoldgit]

I’d rather be pitifully thick than insufferably arrogant. You are entitled to your view about Corbyn and his role in the peace process as are others. I don’t agree that he had nothing to do with it whatsoever. If he didn’t why are we even discussing his dialogue with Sinn Fien? He was talking to them before others joined in, hence the grief he attracted.

[Batman]

Have you got a new job with the Daily Mail?

 

Was the interview on 5Live that I lifted that from either untrue or straight from the daily mail playbook?

 

The talk about about Island of Ireland and its future.

[CB Fry]

I’d rather be pitifully thick than insufferably arrogant. You are entitled to your view about Corbyn and his role in the peace process as are others. I don’t agree that he had nothing to do with it whatsoever. If he didn’t why are we even discussing his dialogue with Sinn Fien? He was talking to them before others joined in, hence the grief he attracted.

We're discussing it because since he became leader it has been contorted so people like you think he played a role in the "peace process". He didn't, at all.

 

Let me know when you find evidence of all the meetings and "dialogue" he put in to talk to the unionist side of things, won't you.

[sadoldgit]

We're discussing it because since he became leader it has been contorted so people like you think he played a role in the "peace process". He didn't, at all.

 

Let me know when you find evidence of all the meetings and "dialogue" he put in to talk to the unionist side of things, won't you.

 

Probably because talking to Unionists was less problematic maybe?

[CB Fry]

Probably because talking to Unionists was less problematic maybe?

Describe to me how a "peace process" works again.

[sadoldgit]

Describe to me how a "peace process" works again.

 

It starts with talking. Wasn’t he vilified as being an IRA supporter for talking to Sinn Fein?

[CB Fry]

It starts with talking. Wasn’t he vilified as being an IRA supporter for talking to Sinn Fein?

When did he start talking to the unionists?

[norwaysaint]

I don't know or care much about how misguided Corbyn's involvement with talks in the NI peace process were, but what's it's place in the Brexit discussion? Or are we going off an a tangent, because there's nothing new to discuss?

 

It feels so bleak to think of either of these two guys as being the only options to lead the UK for years to come.

[sadoldgit]

I don't know or care much about how misguided Corbyn's involvement with talks in the NI peace process were, but what's it's place in the Brexit discussion? Or are we going off an a tangent, because there's nothing new to discuss?

 

It feels so bleak to think of either of these two guys as being the only options to lead the UK for years to come.

 

I would rather Labour (with the LibDems) than the Tories. There is so much to undo like the dreadful Universal Credit that like him or not, Corbyn will sort out.

[norwaysaint]

I think that's an unrealistic aim. Even in a coalition, I don't think the libdems or the public would accept Corbyn as PM. He's a problematic, divisive and unpopular figure. It's okay to be idealistic, but you also have to be realistic and accept that a leader needs charisma.

[buctootim]

you also have to be realistic and accept that a leader needs charisma.

 

When he was up against May - the two most wooden and grey leaders you could imagine - it was possible for Labour members to convince themselves Corbyn was electable. Johnson, loathsome though he is is charismatic and energetic. At some point Momentum are going to wake up and realise that Corbyn is a liability, not a route to getting brave new world policies implemented in government.

[aintforever]

Yes, that's definitely what I'm saying. He was discussing bombing tactics. It's what he's famous for. Gelignite Jeremy that's what he's known as down the Shankhill Road.

 

Anyone involved in the Irish peace process saw Corbyn as, at best, irrelevant and at worst, completely counter-productive, with most observers leaning towards the latter. Check the history and stories of those involved.

 

He may well have been irrelevant and counterproductive, that doesn’t mean he wasn’t trying to seek a peaceful solution.

[aintforever]

Yes, that's definitely what I'm saying. He was discussing bombing tactics. It's what he's famous for. Gelignite Jeremy that's what he's known as down the Shankhill Road.

 

Anyone involved in the Irish peace process saw Corbyn as, at best, irrelevant and at worst, completely counter-productive, with most observers leaning towards the latter. Check the history and stories of those involved.

 

He may well have been irrelevant and counterproductive, that doesn’t mean he wasn’t trying to seek a peaceful solution.

[sadoldgit]

I think that's an unrealistic aim. Even in a coalition, I don't think the libdems or the public would accept Corbyn as PM. He's a problematic, divisive and unpopular figure. It's okay to be idealistic, but you also have to be realistic and accept that a leader needs charisma.

 

Yet Theresa May had no charisma. Granted she won by a whisker, but she still won. Corbyn does appeal to the younger voters. I know it is not the case, but it really should be about policies and not personalities. We really need policies “for the many not for the few.”

[Weston Super Saint]

Yet Theresa May had no charisma. Granted she won by a whisker, but she still won. Corbyn does appeal to the younger voters. I know it is not the case, but it really should be about policies and not personalities. We really need policies “for the many not for the few.”

 

Not sure you can class May as having won the election - she needed the DUP to form a coalition government....

[Danbert]

I think it would have helped if May had put a cross party committee together and had made an effort to involve Parliament in the negotiating process from day 1. It was always going to be a tough ask getting any sort of deal through but not only did she manage to fail to win over the opposition, she also alienated many in her own party.

 

 

Not only that, she had a healthy majority when she took over from Cameron. She then called a pointless election and all but lost it.

[norwaysaint]

Not only that, she had a healthy majority when she took over from Cameron. She then called a pointless election and all but lost it.

 

And STILL she beat Corbyn. The country will not accept him as PM.

[badgerx16]

And STILL she beat Corbyn. The country will not accept him as PM.

 

And we risk the nightmare of Boris gaining a thumping majority as a consequence.

[sadoldgit]

So there was a crowd funding page to raise £10,000 for the death of Gina Miller. Jo Cox has already lost her life to one of these nutters. What is it about some Brexiteers who think this is remotely ok?

[aintforever]

It is a depressing thought, we either face a Corbyn government or Johnson government with a hard Brexit - either way you can see the economy nose-diving. All thanks to our ridiculous FPTP system.

[sadoldgit]

What’s even more depressing is that people worry about Corbyn becoming PM in an era when we have had Blair, Brown, Cameron, May and Johnson. Can he really be that much worse than this bunch?

[benjii]

Extended.

 

Like GM's pecker when Trump says something bellicose.

[norwaysaint]

What’s even more depressing is that people worry about Corbyn becoming PM in an era when we have had Blair, Brown, Cameron, May and Johnson. Can he really be that much worse than this bunch?

 

Again, it's not about ability. It's about charisma. Blair had it and won elections, Brown didn't and lost, despite just being a continuation of the same goverbment. Johnson has it, May didn't and was unpopular, despite delivering basically the same deal as Boris. It's not about how good a leader you are, it's about how well you can present yourself as a leader. It may be stupid, it may not make logical sense, but it's how things work. People are people and this is how they function. If you have charisma and people see you as someone to get things done, they will forgive all kinds of crap (including alleged anti-semitism and alleged sympathy for terrorists), just like Boris and Trump (alleged racism, sexism, sympathy for terrorists and so much more).

[sadoldgit]

I don’t disagree, which is why we usually end up with **** poor Governments and leaders who should be nowhere near power.

[badgerx16]

Extended.

 

BoJo currently out looking for a ditch to die in.

[Guided Missile]

Boris continuing to play a blinder:

 

The European Union has agreed it will accept a Brexit flextension in what will be seen as a major boost to Boris Johnson's hopes of securing a Christmas election.

[Guided Missile]

Extended.

 

Like GM's pecker when Trump says something bellicose.

 

Weirdo obsessed with my pecker...

[badgerx16]

Boris continuing to play a blinder:

GM continuing to drool over his keyboard.

[Wes Tender]

What’s even more depressing is that people worry about Corbyn becoming PM in an era when we have had Blair, Brown, Cameron, May and Johnson. Can he really be that much worse than this bunch?

 

Were any of them loopy Marxists? I think that you're becoming senile or a deranged nutter if you for one second believe that a government comprising of Corbyn as PM, Abbott as Home Secretary, McDonnell as Chancellor and Thornberry as Foreign Minister wouldn't be the worst government in our entire political history. May was bad, but nowhere near as bad as that lot would be.

[Guided Missile]

Boris playing a blinder:

 

Two of the most senior figures in the People’s Vote have been asked to leave with immediate effect amid a power struggle inside the campaign for a second referendum on leaving the EU. James McGrory, director of the campaign, and Tom Baldwin, head of communications, were ordered to quit their jobs on Sunday evening. Patrick Heneghan, former head of campaigns for the Labour party, was meanwhile appointed as the new acting chief executive of the People’s Vote while its board sought a permanent successor.

The moves were revealed in an email seen by the Financial Times from public relations guru Roland Rudd, who as chair of Open Europe — one of five organisations inside the People’s Vote — wields huge power within the campaign. Mr Rudd has been engaged in a long power struggle with Peter Mandelson, the former Labour deputy prime minister, over the direction of the campaign. One ally of Mr McGrory and Mr Baldwin questioned whether Mr Rudd had the power to sack them, given his lack of a formal position within the PV campaign. “He is no more the chair of People’s Vote than Idi Amin was the Last King of Scotland,” he said. “This is essentially a coup against the staff and the campaign by a multi-millionaire who has been to the offices only a handful of times.”

Roland Rudd? Now where have I heard that name before?

[sadoldgit]

Were any of them loopy Marxists? I think that you're becoming senile or a deranged nutter if you for one second believe that a government comprising of Corbyn as PM, Abbott as Home Secretary, McDonnell as Chancellor and Thornberry as Foreign Minister wouldn't be the worst government in our entire political history. May was bad, but nowhere near as bad as that lot would be.

 

Conjecture on your part. They will have to go some to feck the country up more than Cameron, May and Johnson have and are currently doing.

[sadoldgit]

BoJo currently out looking for a ditch to die in.

 

It’s ok, he never said any of that.

[Batman]

Election 9 or 12 December then

[Guided Missile]

Election 9 or 12 December then

As Jeremy Hasbeen would say, "Bring it on"

[Guided Missile]

It’s ok, he never said any of that.

The real truth is that he never requested an extension from the EU, Parliament did via the Benn Act. The electorate realise that, even if an old socialist like you doesn't...

[Tamesaint]

The real truth is that he never requested an extension from the EU, Parliament did via the Benn Act. The electorate realise that, even if an old socialist like you doesn't...

 

Semantics.

 

The man told everyone that we would leave on 31 October. In the Tory leadership election Hunt said that we might need longer than 31 October yet Johnson rubbished him. Clearly Hunt was right and Johnson wrong.

 

The man has failed and only blinkered fools would try to argue otherwise.

[sadoldgit]

The real truth is that he never requested an extension from the EU, Parliament did via the Benn Act. The electorate realise that, even if an old socialist like you doesn't...

 

I am not an old socialist. I have only voted Labour once and that was a tactical vote. However I want the NHS protected. I want the Universal Credit system replaced by something fit for purpose, I want see the railways renationalised and run for the benefit of the people and not for profit and I want the super rich to pay a reasonable amount in tax. I think most people would see those as reasonable aspirations. We are not going to get these things from a Tory government so if that makes me a socialist, so be it. Surely better to want a better society for all rather than for a minority of selfish self centred arseholes.

[Wes Tender]

Boris playing a blinder:

 

 

Roland Rudd? Now where have I heard that name before?

 

No, you're thinking of Roland Rat

[Wes Tender]

Conjecture on your part. They will have to go some to feck the country up more than Cameron, May and Johnson have and are currently doing.

 

You seem to have airbrushed Bliar and Brown out, who were part of your original quote. Why's that?

 

If there are sufficient numbers of deranged old codgers like you added to the pimply naive yoof who would vote for that bunch of incompetent Marxists who comprise the Labour front bench, then scarily they might stand a chance in government of ruining the country and turning us into something akin to Venezuela or Zimbabwe.

[norwaysaint]

The real truth is that he never requested an extension from the EU, Parliament did via the Benn Act. The electorate realise that, even if an old socialist like you doesn't...

 

Don't be silly. It's not even just in the UK. Everyone in Europe and the UK is aware that Boris had to apply for an extension despite his previous statement. It's not necessary to be embarrassed by it. We know it was a legal obligation, but it's silly to pretend he avoided it, just by not signing the letter. He didn't want to apply, he had to anyway, he doesn't like it. Everyone understands that.

 

A fair hope now is that the opposition parties really should accept an election now and the conservatives, despite not being a majority, will probably still be the single biggest party and can maybe get back enough votes to take control again. Labour and the Libdems really are split more evenly than ever, with a large part unable to see past Labour as the accepted opposition and the rest not wanting Corbyn. I think the libdems are the best bet, but the country probably isn't able to get behind them as a credible opposition yet and all of this gives the Conservatives hope of getting stronger, despite their own mess. Boris will probably still end up at the top of the ****heap.

[Guided Missile]

Don't be silly. It's not even just in the UK. Everyone in Europe and the UK is aware that Boris had to apply for an extension despite his previous statement. It's not necessary to be embarrassed by it. We know it was a legal obligation, but it's silly to pretend he avoided it, just by not signing the letter. He didn't want to apply, he had to anyway, he doesn't like it. Everyone understands that.

Silly? I said Boris Johnson didn't request an extension. The letter he signed was as follows:

 

 

I think that the letter above indicates he didn't ask for a delay and as for the rest of the EU, I don't really give a stuff what they think of our Prime Minister. They are the last people on Earth to accuse politicians of lying.

[Guided Missile]

I am not an old socialist. I have only voted Labour once and that was a tactical vote. However I want the NHS protected. I want the Universal Credit system replaced by something fit for purpose, I want see the railways renationalised and run for the benefit of the people and not for profit and I want the super rich to pay a reasonable amount in tax. I think most people would see those as reasonable aspirations. We are not going to get these things from a Tory government so if that makes me a socialist, so be it. Surely better to want a better society for all rather than for a minority of selfish self centred arseholes.

Two minor points:

 

• The railways are already in state ownership, so there's nothing to "renationalise".
  
• The richest 1% of taxpayers, pay 27% of the total tax.
  

It is apparent that your comments about "not for profit" mean you still believe in the magic money tree....

[OldNick]

I am not an old socialist. I have only voted Labour once and that was a tactical vote. However I want the NHS protected. I want the Universal Credit system replaced by something fit for purpose, I want see the railways renationalised and run for the benefit of the people and not for profit and I want the super rich to pay a reasonable amount in tax. I think most people would see those as reasonable aspirations. We are not going to get these things from a Tory government so if that makes me a socialist, so be it. Surely better to want a better society for all rather than for a minority of selfish self centred arseholes.

You worked for the Guardian I seem to recall and so you are hardly open minded to business. Iam not part of the super rich but what you dont understand it seems is that the super rich are mobile and they dont have to pay any tax in the UK if we make it difficult for them. Many invest in our country that in turn creates jobs and wealth down the pyramid. We cant just have a nation of civil servants, teachers, and workshy, although the Guardian would love that. We need wealth creators who pay into the pot so that the rest follows.

If you are talking Phillip Green and his type then Im 100% behind you

[norwaysaint]

Silly? I said Boris Johnson didn't request an extension. The letter he signed was as follows:

 

 

I think that the letter above indicates he didn't ask for a delay and as for the rest of the EU, I don't really give a stuff what they think of our Prime Minister. They are the last people on Earth to accuse politicians of lying.

 

Again, don't be silly. We both know he asked for an extension and it was given. He didn't sign it, but he did it. Don't embarrass yourself by hanging onto something clearly so weak. It's okay to back Boris, but don't run and hide from what we all know.

[badgerx16]

.....only blinkered fools try to argue otherwise.

Corrected

[Lord Duckhunter]

Leavers know why an extension was asked for. won’t make a blind bit of difference what people who had no intention of voting for Boris anyway think. If labour thought it did, Corbyn would agree to an election now an extension has been granted.

 

Labour are going to have to try a new play book when one does come. Their normal lines of “24 hours to save the NHS” and “Tory austerity “ hurting people daily, look a bit silly when you’ve been propping up an Etonian led Tory government for weeks. Jezza & Ramsay McDonnell- Red Tories.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[aintforever]

General Election - what a great idea. So what are we going to get:

 

1. A Corbyn government voted in because of a sh!te Brexit deal.

 

2. A ****e Brexit deal crowbarred through because of an unelectable opposition.

[Batman]

General Election - what a great idea. So what are we going to get:

 

1. A Corbyn government voted in because of a sh!te Brexit deal.

 

2. A ****e Brexit deal crowbarred through because of an unelectable opposition.

 

We will get The government people voted for. Kind of how it should work?

[sadoldgit]

You worked for the Guardian I seem to recall and so you are hardly open minded to business. Iam not part of the super rich but what you dont understand it seems is that the super rich are mobile and they dont have to pay any tax in the UK if we make it difficult for them. Many invest in our country that in turn creates jobs and wealth down the pyramid. We cant just have a nation of civil servants, teachers, and workshy, although the Guardian would love that. We need wealth creators who pay into the pot so that the rest follows.

If you are talking Phillip Green and his type then Im 100% behind you

 

Yes I did work for the Guardian (for 22 years and very proud of it) but I wasn’t a journalist. It wasn’t and still isn’t owned by rich businessmen (it is owned by a trust) with right wing agendas and is still our only independent national newspaper. It doesn’t support any political party although it is liberal with a small l. I am not against capitalism but capitalism for the benefit of all. I don’t believe any of us believe in the trickle down theory any more. There is something seriously wrong when a country with the 5th largest economy has a percentage of its population that has to rely on food banks. For 8 years I saw at first hand what the Tories enforced austerity measures did to the Criminal Justice System. It comes as no surprise that violent crime and sexual offences have increased as the chance of seeing police out and about nowadays. I could go on and on about how our society is becoming more and more fragmented thanks to Tory policies but I guess you won’t see it as their fault.