Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[doddisalegend]

Hopefully the EU will agree to a delay only on condition of a second referendum.

 

Surly they want this settled once and for all, extending for a GE which might make the situation harder to be resolved seems an odd thing to do.

I'm pretty sure the EU won't do that and no way would the current government agree to that anyway.

 

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[badgerx16]

How's it going lads? Predictions going well?

 

Wait until we reach Nov 1st and are still in the EU.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Wait until we reach Nov 1st and are still in the EU.

 

There's far more from where that came from, don't worry.

[aintforever]

I'm pretty sure the EU won't do that and no way would the current government agree to that anyway.

 

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True, the EU don't seem to usually like getting involved in internal politics. But if they did surely the Benn act requires any response to the PM's extension request to be put to parliament?

[Baird of the land]

True, the EU don't seem to usually like getting involved in internal politics. But if they did surely the Benn act requires any response to the PM's extension request to be put to parliament?

 

Think if they agree to his request for an extension to the end of January its automatic.

However if they added any qualifier or a different date it would be a different scenario.

[sadoldgit]

Given that a GE is likely to leave us pretty much where we are at the moment, perhaps it is time for a second referendum, once they have knocked the current deal into shape. A simple vote. The new (amended) deal and the choice to remain. That way a new Government can get on with running the country instead of having to renegotiate the Brexit minefield.

[Tamesaint]

How's it going lads? Predictions going well?

 

Lol

 

For their sake I hope that they don't bet.

[shurlock]

Given that a GE is likely to leave us pretty much where we are at the moment, perhaps it is time for a second referendum, once they have knocked the current deal into shape. A simple vote. The new (amended) deal and the choice to remain. That way a new Government can get on with running the country instead of having to renegotiate the Brexit minefield.

 

With the state of the Labour Party, it won’t surprise me if the Conservatives win a majority - of course, they don’t have a clue of the complexities involved in negotiating a FTA or understand what a simple FTA can achieve. The next 12 months will be another reality check as the silly mantra of get Brexit done comes back to bite them. Great shorting opportunities mind you.

[hypochondriac]

With the state of the Labour Party, it won’t surprise me if the Conservatives win a majority - of course, they don’t have a clue of the complexities involved in negotiating a FTA or understand what a simple FTA can achieve. The next 12 months will be another reality check as the silly mantra of get Brexit done comes back to bite them. Great shorting opportunities mind you.

And that was kind of my point about Boris not caring what those critical of his do or die stuff say. He knows that barring a big mishap there is probably a fair chance of a Conservative majority purely due to the ineptitude of the opposition.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

And that was kind of my point about Boris not caring what those critical of his do or die stuff say. He knows that barring a big mishap there is probably a fair chance of a Conservative majority purely due to the ineptitude of the opposition.

 

I just think there may be some very odd results as the Tory vote gets split between the Conservatives and the Brexit Party, some of the Labour vote goes to the Brexit party, and the majority of the Tory Remain support and the more centrist Labour supporters goes to the Lib Dems.

[norwaysaint]

I kind of feel that Labour have really lost their connection to the kind of people who want to vote for a credible opposition. I don't know if that's them changing as a party, or them not changing as the needs of the population change around them, but opposition would probably be better served if the general public felt that the Libdems had become the main opposition party now and that they were credible to vote for.

 

I don't mean that I think there's anything particularly wonderful about the libdems, I just think it's healthier for a country to have a credible alternative to its government. When the governing party can behave in a way so many people dislike, but their opposition is still losing popularity, you have to hope that we can change our outlook on who the opposition is. Maybe if the libdems begin to edge aboove labour, it will encourage more people to back them as a credible alternative.

[badgerx16]

I kind of feel that Labour have really lost their connection to the kind of people who want to vote for a credible opposition. I don't know if that's them changing as a party, or them not changing as the needs of the population change around them, but opposition would probably be better served if the general public felt that the Libdems had become the main opposition party now and that they were credible to vote for.

 

I don't mean that I think there's anything particularly wonderful about the libdems, I just think it's healthier for a country to have a credible alternative to its government. When the governing party can behave in a way so many people dislike, but their opposition is still losing popularity, you have to hope that we can change our outlook on who the opposition is. Maybe if the libdems begin to edge aboove labour, it will encourage more people to back them as a credible alternative.

But with FPTP, and the way constituency boundaries are mapped, it would take something seismic for the LDs to get anywhere near an effective number of seats. In theory, a party could get 35% of the vote nationally and yet end up up with no representation at Westminster.

[sadoldgit]

Even more of a reason to have a second referendum to help get Brexit sorted. We can then think about what type of Government we want to take the country forward.

[OldNick]

Even more of a reason to have a second referendum to help get Brexit sorted. We can then think about what type of Government we want to take the country forward.

so if that if the referendum was won by remain by a handful of votes or even as the one before 48/52% how do we go forward then? I assume that would be ok in your book.

[Batman]

Sounds like they wont be opposing another election when offered from the great dictator..(unless he is.....telling fibs!)

 

[aintforever]

so if that if the referendum was won by remain by a handful of votes or even as the one before 48/52% how do we go forward then? I assume that would be ok in your book.

 

It would be a more informed choice, if leave wins by a handful of votes then the deal is actioned automatically, likewise if remain win we revoke.

[Saint Fan CaM]

GE would be a win-win as Tory majority would get Brexit done finally and Labour would be so humiliated that Corbyn would be ousted meaning a more credible opposition party. EVery other scenario leads to more log jam in Parliament due to political dogma from all sides.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

GE would be a win-win as Tory majority would get Brexit done finally and Labour would be so humiliated that Corbyn would be ousted meaning a more credible opposition party. EVery other scenario leads to more log jam in Parliament due to political dogma from all sides.

 

Agreed. I think everyone wants a GE TBH, however tired we are of politics.

[CB Fry]

Agreed. I think everyone wants a GE TBH, however tired we are of politics.

Everyone, except Emmanuel Macron.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/23/emmanuel-macron-demands-new-brexit-deadline-november-15/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[doddisalegend]

GE would be a win-win as Tory majority would get Brexit done finally and Labour would be so humiliated that Corbyn would be ousted meaning a more credible opposition party. EVery other scenario leads to more log jam in Parliament due to political dogma from all sides.

What makes you think Tories will win a working majority? I can't see anything but a messy hung parliament.

 

It's hard to call though becuase brexit has certainly shifted some voters from their traditional voting (including me)

 

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Edited 24 October, 2019 by doddisalegend

[Wes Tender]

With the state of the Labour Party, it won’t surprise me if the Conservatives win a majority - of course, they don’t have a clue of the complexities involved in negotiating a FTA or understand what a simple FTA can achieve.

 

They'll obviously have to come to you for advice then, won't they? Thank God that the Leave campaign didn't have to face you telling voters of the dire consequences of a vote to leave the EU, or they might not have won the Referendum vote. Or maybe they would have won anyway, because they had become fed up of so-called experts telling them what to think, or they were too thick to understand what they were being told in the first place.

 

Isn't it ironic that there is nobody in Government capable of negotiating a FTA with the EU, when we have somebody here with that expertise on a Football Forum.

[Whitey Grandad]

They'll obviously have to come to you for advice then, won't they? Thank God that the Leave campaign didn't have to face you telling voters of the dire consequences of a vote to leave the EU, or they might not have won the Referendum vote. Or maybe they would have won anyway, because they had become fed up of so-called experts telling them what to think, or they were too thick to understand what they were being told in the first place.

 

Isn't it ironic that there is nobody in Government capable of negotiating a FTA with the EU, when we have somebody here with that expertise on a Football Forum.

 

Clueless. We shall have to get used to calling you 'Clueless Wes'.

 

There is nobody in the Civil Service who has ever negotiated a trade agreement. You were warned but you wouldn't listen. Are you sure you were competent to vote?

[sadoldgit]

It would be a more informed choice, if leave wins by a handful of votes then the deal is actioned automatically, likewise if remain win we revoke.

 

This is the crux of the matter. We know a lot more about the impact of Brexit now than we did at the time. As a remainer I wouldn’t have so much of a problem if we left after a second vote. It is a massive and hugely complicated situation and we ought to have an opportunity to revisit our decision based on a higher level of understanding of the issues and consequences.

[Wes Tender]

Clueless. We shall have to get used to calling you 'Clueless Wes'.

 

There is nobody in the Civil Service who has ever negotiated a trade agreement. You were warned but you wouldn't listen. Are you sure you were competent to vote?

 

You can bandy about as many childish insults as you like. It doesn't reflect well on you at all.

 

It has been patently obvious that the Civil Service hasn't a clue about negotiations, as was amply demonstrated by the naivety shown by Commie Ollie Robbins and the hapless Vicar's daughter who was gullible and spineless enough to believe that he was up to the job. We have had three and a half years since June 23rd 2016 to both train and headhunt people with trade negotiation experience, but why do we need a Civil Servant to negotiate on our behalf anyway? Somebody like Crawford Falconer has plenty of top level negotiating experience. We should put somebody like him in charge.

 

Failing that, then Shurlock can advise somebody on how to go about it. Or maybe you, perhaps.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

You can bandy about as many childish insults as you like. It doesn't reflect well on you at all.

 

It has been patently obvious that the Civil Service hasn't a clue about negotiations, as was amply demonstrated by the naivety shown by Commie Ollie Robbins and the hapless Vicar's daughter who was gullible and spineless enough to believe that he was up to the job. We have had three and a half years since June 23rd 2016 to both train and headhunt people with trade negotiation experience, but why do we need a Civil Servant to negotiate on our behalf anyway? Somebody like Crawford Falconer has plenty of top level negotiating experience. We should put somebody like him in charge.

 

Failing that, then Shurlock can advise somebody on how to go about it. Or maybe you, perhaps.

 

You say that, but your fave Boris managed to negotiate a deal worse than the one Teresa did, whilst also contravening his own red lines.

 

There's a lot of fail there.

[aintforever]

This is the crux of the matter. We know a lot more about the impact of Brexit now than we did at the time. As a remainer I wouldn’t have so much of a problem if we left after a second vote. It is a massive and hugely complicated situation and we ought to have an opportunity to revisit our decision based on a higher level of understanding of the issues and consequences.

 

It doesn't matter how much leavers claim they knew what they were voting for, fact is certain things that have come to light no one could have known about. Mainly IMO:

 

£39 Billion Divorce bill - This only became clear a long time after the result.

 

Possible breakup of the UK - Obviously only after the results came in did it become clear that NI and Scotland voted strongly in the opposite way to England and Wales. If we leave with the current deal then the SNP have an undeniable right to hold another referendum which they will probably win.

 

Response of the EU - We were told the EU would capitulate because German Car manufacturers would be banging on Merkel’s door. It turns out that they, along with their Governments agree with the EU that protecting the EU and single market is more important than any free trade deal with the UK.

 

Northern Ireland issues - We only found a week or so ago that there is going to be a border down the Irish Sea against the wishes of the DUP. Sinn Fein are over the moon and already planning for a united Ireland - the potential for trouble here is obvious. Is ANYTHING worth risking trouble in NI again?

[sadoldgit]

I have a friend who voted to leave. Now he has seen what could potentially happen in Ireland he has become a remainer.

[trousers]

Government to table motion on Monday for General Election on 12th December

[Batman]

I have a friend who voted to leave. Now he has seen what could potentially happen in Ireland he has become a remainer.

 

I know people that voted remain.

Now we have never seen the punishment budget, 25% housing market crash, not seen 700k unemployed for voting to leave

 

They are all now Brexiteers

[trousers]

...

[doddisalegend]

...

 

Lame duck PM begs opposition leader to let him off the hook...

Edited 24 October, 2019 by doddisalegend

[LGTL]

that letter.

 

What a pathetic prime minister we have.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I know people that voted remain.

Now we have never seen the punishment budget, 25% housing market crash, not seen 700k unemployed for voting to leave

 

They are all now Brexiteers

 

Bullsh1tter.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

...

 

Is that signed by Brian Johnson from AC/DC?

[doddisalegend]

that letter.

 

What a pathetic prime minister we have.

 

It's a piece of propaganda that would make Goebbels blush.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

It's a piece of propaganda that would make Goebbels blush.

 

"If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself."

[Batman]

"If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself."

 

I know what you mean, Ed Davey was just on 5Live.

He was harping on about that never can he remember a senior politician lie like Johnson and that he would never put himself near anyone who says one thing and does another....

 

When immediately challenge about his own party and them stating they would ‘never’ increase tuition fees and that Swinson actually voted for it....that of course was ‘completely different’ etc

 

Snakes everywhere

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I know what you mean, Ed Davey was just on 5Live.

He was harping on about that never can he remember a senior politician lie like Johnson and that he would never put himself near anyone who says one thing and does another....

 

When immediately challenge about his own party and them stating they would ‘never’ increase tuition fees and that Swinson actually voted for it....that of course was ‘completely different’ etc

 

Snakes everywhere

 

No-one's saying that other politicians don't lie - and I don't know if you remember but the Lib Dems got massively punished at the next election. That won't happen to Boris because people aren't bothered about lies now - or certainly people who vote that way aren't. If Corbyn or Swinson lied the way Boris has, then voters would flock away from them a la 2015 as their voters have at least some morals. It's happened in the US with Trump and the right, and it's happening here too.

 

There is no accountability anymore.

[sadoldgit]

I know what you mean, Ed Davey was just on 5Live.

He was harping on about that never can he remember a senior politician lie like Johnson and that he would never put himself near anyone who says one thing and does another....

 

When immediately challenge about his own party and them stating they would ‘never’ increase tuition fees and that Swinson actually voted for it....that of course was ‘completely different’ etc

 

Snakes everywhere

 

But the biggest one and the most powerful one is Prime Minister.

[sadoldgit]

A 12th December election? The Boris Who Stole Christmas.

[aintforever]

I know people that voted remain.

Now we have never seen the punishment budget, 25% housing market crash, not seen 700k unemployed for voting to leave

 

They are all now Brexiteers

 

So you agree that many have changed their mind since 2016 and a second refurendum would be the most democratic way of solving this mess?

[Batman]

So you agree that many have changed their mind since 2016 and a second refurendum would be the most democratic way of solving this mess?

 

I was making it up. Much like soggy

 

Anyway, the PM is about to put it to MPs to let the people decide the way forward

 

Brexit with a deal - Tory

Have a another referendum - Labour

Remain at all costs - Libdem

 

Simple choice really

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I was making it up. Much like soggy

 

Anyway, the PM is about to put it to MPs to let the people decide the way forward

 

Brexit with a deal - Tory

Have a another referendum - Labour

Remain at all costs - Libdem

 

Simple choice really

 

Brexit without a deal - Brexit party

 

Considering that Les and GM have been telling us that people who voted for Brexit were voting for No Deal it's difficult to tell what will happen.

[aintforever]

I was making it up. Much like soggy

 

Anyway, the PM is about to put it to MPs to let the people decide the way forward

 

Brexit with a deal - Tory

Have a another referendum - Labour

Remain at all costs - Libdem

 

Simple choice really

 

So who do Brexit supporting socialists or Remainer Tories vote for?

[Batman]

So who do Brexit supporting socialists or Remainer Tories vote for?

 

Who ever they want.

[doddisalegend]

I was making it up. Much like soggy

 

Anyway, the PM is about to put it to MPs to let the people decide the way forward

 

Brexit with a deal - Tory

Have a another referendum - Labour

Remain at all costs - Libdem

 

Simple choice really

 

It really isn't that simple. You seem to have missed out the SNP, Plaid Cymru, the DUP, the green party and the Brexit party as well as who knows how many independents.

 

All who could well have an impact, even in small numbers, in the HoC unless someone gets a big majority which seems unlikely.

 

I reckon this will be the least simple election In a long long time. Who ever forms a government will probably have to wheel and deal like Arthur Daily to get anything done.

 

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[sadoldgit]

I was making it up. Much like soggy

 

Anyway, the PM is about to put it to MPs to let the people decide the way forward

 

Brexit with a deal - Tory

Have a another referendum - Labour

Remain at all costs - Libdem

 

Simple choice really

 

You strange boy. I wasn’t making it up.

 

I work part time for a guy who always used to vote Tory. Last election he voted LibDem. This time he says he will vote Labour. He is a remainer.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

It really isn't that simple. You seem to have missed out the SNP, Plaid Cymru, the DUP, the green party and the Brexit party as well as who knows how many independents.

 

All who could well have an impact, even in small numbers, in the HoC unless someone gets a big majority which seems unlikely.

 

I reckon this will be the least simple election In a long long time. Who ever forms a government will probably have to wheel and deal like Arthur Daily to get anything done.

 

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The Tories will lose all 13 seats in Scotland due to a mix of Brexit and losing Ruth Davidson, the DUP will no longer prop them up due to being stitched up in this deal, and the Brexit party should take a lot of the vote as Brexit voters wanted a no deal as that is what they all voted for.

[aintforever]

Who ever they want.

 

Surely it makes sense to have an election once Brexit is sorted out so people are elected because of their policies and how capable they are, not on the back of one single decisive issue?

 

A GE now would be messy as ****.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

You strange boy. I wasn’t making it up.

 

I work part time for a guy who always used to vote Tory. Last election he voted LibDem. This time he says he will vote Labour. He is a remainer.

 

Same as me, and 3 of my local mates. Won't vote Labour mind.