Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[hypochondriac]

Not to Wes...

 

Boris doesn't want no deal, the EU don't want no deal, neither do Labour and many Tories. It's not going to happen, particularly when there is a deal. They will keep delaying things with some hanging onto the belief that it will get them another referendum but when this vote is finally done, I can't see it losing.

[buctootim]

It's obvious this deal is going to pass eventually, even if there is a general election in between

 

Even if it passes it wont necessarily get implemented. Thewre will be another year of wrangling, and most likely extensions to the implementation period whereby nothing changes.

[CB Fry]

Good news. Things coming nicely to the boil for a clean break Brexit, aided and abetted by the likes of EU collaborators Letwin, Benn and Bercow.

Jesus wept.

[trousers]

Just the three letters sent to the EU then...

 

 

Edited 19 October, 2019 by trousers

[doddisalegend]

Just the three letters sent to the EU then...

 

 

Just saw him on the news doing his best sulky, little, posh boy act in the HoC after suffering another defeat. He really is a grade A tosspot.

 

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[LGTL]

Good news. Things coming nicely to the boil for a clean break Brexit, aided and abetted by the likes of EU collaborators Letwin, Benn and Bercow.

 

How do you get to your age and still be so naive?!

[saint1977]

Boris really is a fat child. A fat, useless, spoilt child. Anyone considering voting for him really must have an IQ below 30. Even his own family don’t want to know him.

 

He is the joint most unsuitable person to lead anything - a nation, a charity stall, the running of a bath - that I’ve ever seen. Along with Corbyn.

 

Hope he gets sent to jail.

[Saint_clark]

Boris really is a fat child. A fat, useless, spoilt child. Anyone considering voting for him really must have an IQ below 30. Even his own family don’t want to know him.

 

He is the joint most unsuitable person to lead anything - a nation, a charity stall, the running of a bath - that I’ve ever seen. Along with Corbyn.

 

Hope he gets sent to jail.

 

For what?

Your post is coming across far more childish and spoilt than anything he's done.

[sadoldgit]

For what?

Your post is coming across far more childish and spoilt than anything he's done.

 

For not complying with the law.

[Saint_clark]

For not complying with the law.

 

The law required him to send a letter asking for an extension - he's done that.

[shurlock]

For not complying with the law.

 

Just ignore it - the stunt will have zero practical effect. It’s just theatre for halfwits like GM who’ll chunter on about 4D chess or something.

[hypochondriac]

Even if it passes it wont necessarily get implemented. Thewre will be another year of wrangling, and most likely extensions to the implementation period whereby nothing changes.

Most likely outcome is a general election. If the tories get enough seats then it's getting done. Big if though given the u predictable nature of the climate but I can't see anything other than a labour crash and burn and that will probably benefit the conservatives at least slightly.

[shurlock]

Most likely outcome is a general election. If the tories get enough seats then it's getting done. Big if though given the u predictable nature of the climate but I can't see anything other than a labour crash and burn and that will probably benefit the conservatives at least slightly.

 

What’s ‘getting done’?

[Weston Super Saint]

What’s ‘getting done’?

 

At the moment? Pretty much nothing!

[doddisalegend]

Most likely outcome is a general election. If the tories get enough seats then it's getting done. Big if though given the u predictable nature of the climate but I can't see anything other than a labour crash and burn and that will probably benefit the conservatives at least slightly.

Problem for the Tories, in a GE, now is the brexit party. A few weeks ago when Boris was begging the HoC for an election he was seen as championing a No Deal which would have probably netted him a lot of votes from brexit party supporters. Farage was even talking about an election pact. Now Boris has a deal and is trying to push it he will split the leave voters.

 

I can't see any party getting a workable majority in a GE.

 

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[hypochondriac]

Problem for the Tories, in a GE, now is the brexit party. A few weeks ago when Boris was begging the HoC for an election he was seen as championing a No Deal which would have probably netted him a lot of votes from brexit party supporters. Farage was even talking about an election pact. Now Boris has a deal and is trying to push it he will split the leave voters.

 

I can't see any party getting a workable majority in a GE.

 

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That's true but he will have gained a lot more brexit supporters now he has a deal that's being thwarted rather than going into an election having been forced to break his promise of leaving on the 31st.

[Shroppie]

The law required him to send a letter asking for an extension - he's done that.

He's deliberately attempted to frustrate the purpose of the Act.

 

That is just as illegal as not sending the letter.

 

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[Shroppie]

What’s ‘getting done’?

Johnson wants to insist that "getting it done" can only mean leaving, with or without a deal. He's also, wrongly, claiming that all "the people" want that. Agreed that some do, bit just as many don't.

 

It's just as legitimate to want Brexit gone.

 

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[Unbelievable Jeff]

He's deliberately attempted to frustrate the purpose of the Act.

 

That is just as illegal as not sending the letter.

 

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Yep, there is every chance that what he did is illegal - it is reasonable to assume that the point of the law was to send a signed letter without any accompanying letters, even if it doesn't say it explicitly.

 

Unfortunately, breaking the law on a pedantic technicality is very much frowned upon in our top courts.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

That's true but he will have gained a lot more brexit supporters now he has a deal that's being thwarted rather than going into an election having been forced to break his promise of leaving on the 31st.

 

But he will have lost all the no deal ones...and we've been consistently told that Brexiteers voted for no deal.

[Shroppie]

That's true but he will have gained a lot more brexit supporters now he has a deal that's being thwarted rather than going into an election having been forced to break his promise of leaving on the 31st.

He hasn't got a deal being thwarted. He's got a parliament properly and conscientiously wanting to scrutinise the details of the deal, which so far they haven't even been told, rather than being railroaded into accepting it blindly.

 

The tactic is hiding real facts (and lying), creating a false sense of desperate urgency and using the biased friendly media to reinforce that and create the impression that it's "poor Boris and the people" against parliament. Classic Dom.

 

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[aintforever]

Most likely outcome is a general election. If the tories get enough seats then it's getting done. Big if though given the u predictable nature of the climate but I can't see anything other than a labour crash and burn and that will probably benefit the conservatives at least slightly.

 

I dunno, Peterborough is one of the most pro Brexit constituencies and they voted Labour in June. I expect the two main parties will get a bit of a kicking and can’t see either getting close to a majority. If anything, with the Lib Dem’s, SNP and Brexit parties doing well Parliament will be even more of a mess.

 

A second refurendum is the screaming obvious way forward. Get the deal through the house on the condition of a public vote and nothing will be holding it up.

[doddisalegend]

That's true but he will have gained a lot more brexit supporters now he has a deal that's being thwarted rather than going into an election having been forced to break his promise of leaving on the 31st.

A lot more Brexit supporters from where? The only source I can see is Labour supporters who want to leave with a deal whether they are happy to vote for a posh boy conservative remains to be seen.

 

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[CB Fry]

If the EU have got any sense of comedy they should give us an extension to December 31st 2020.

 

If we ratify departure we leave the next day, no problem: whether that is tomorrow, the end of the month or some time next spring. So if needed time for an election that isn't held over Christmas or in January.

 

However I think they will sit tight for now and see if the legislation can get through the HOC by the end of the month. The numbers suggest that this is possible now. If not they will let us roll on.

 

I know some people still don't get it, but the one thing that ain't ever going to happen is no deal.

[Batman]

He hasn't got a deal being thwarted. He's got a parliament properly and conscientiously wanting to scrutinise the details of the deal, which so far they haven't even been told, rather than being railroaded into accepting it blindly.

 

The tactic is hiding real facts (and lying), creating a false sense of desperate urgency and using the biased friendly media to reinforce that and create the impression that it's "poor Boris and the people" against parliament. Classic Dom.

 

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Parliament does not need time when it suits

[Guided Missile]

I know some people still don't get it, but the one thing that ain't ever going to happen is no deal.

You're the one that doesn't get it. IF this deal gets passed AND there is no FTA by the end of 2020, we can walk away with no deal....

[Batman]

Boris really is a fat child. A fat, useless, spoilt child. Anyone considering voting for him really must have an IQ below 30. Even his own family don’t want to know him.

 

He is the joint most unsuitable person to lead anything - a nation, a charity stall, the running of a bath - that I’ve ever seen. Along with Corbyn.

 

Hope he gets sent to jail.

 

Great points, well made

 

LOL

 

That is up there with the hordes on twitter saying that criticising Abbott for falling asleep in the front bench yesterday is racist. Or the SNP loons saying that the Tories walking out in them / parliament was a disgraceful act, something the SNP are well above of.... eeeer

 

Strange times we are in. No one is changing their minds, best progress brexit with this deal, which is kind of soft and move on. Have a general election and when Swinson wins, she can halt the whole process!

 

 

Edited 20 October, 2019 by Batman

[CB Fry]

You're the one that doesn't get it. IF this deal gets passed AND there is no FTA by the end of 2020, we can walk away with no deal....

Quite aware of that sweetheart.

 

I know that's the new wet dream, it's not what we're talking about here.

 

Also, that won't ever happen either.

[hypochondriac]

He hasn't got a deal being thwarted. He's got a parliament properly and conscientiously wanting to scrutinise the details of the deal, which so far they haven't even been told, rather than being railroaded into accepting it blindly.

 

The tactic is hiding real facts (and lying), creating a false sense of desperate urgency and using the biased friendly media to reinforce that and create the impression that it's "poor Boris and the people" against parliament. Classic Dom.

 

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It's all about the optics with a general election. However you play it he's in a much better place having come up with a deal that is then prevented from passing for whatever reason than trying and failing to leave without a deal.

[hypochondriac]

But he will have lost all the no deal ones...and we've been consistently told that Brexiteers voted for no deal.

I expect that given the choice more people would support a sensible deal.

[Batman]

It's all about the optics with a general election. However you play it he's in a much better place having come up with a deal that is then prevented from passing for whatever reason than trying and failing to leave without a deal.

 

I think it is something like the last 55 polls on the bounce, Tories/Johnson are ahead (and moving further away) from the others. Despite boris being a so-Called Lier, who was not talking to the EU, who would not be able to alter the WA or even have an altered arrangement to bring back in the 19 Oct... etc etc

 

That is of course, if you believe the polls

[hypochondriac]

I think it is something like the last 55 polls on the bounce, Tories/Johnson are ahead (and moving further away) from the others. Despite boris being a so-Called Lier, who was not talking to the EU, who would not be able to alter the WA or even have an altered arrangement to bring back in the 19 Oct... etc etc

 

That is of course, if you believe the polls

The main problem for people on here is they just look at things from within their bubble and with their own perspectives without considering wider public opinion. It's why so many were shocked by trump and brexit. The most likely outcome of a general election is no overall majority but I wouldn't be surprised at all if the conservatives got a majority in order to carry out brexit. Johnson isn't going to prison, most people vastly prefer him as pm to may and corbyn and the majority don't give a stuff if he uses so called unparliamentary language or does something petty towards a parliament they have zero trust in. Tactically considering the huge opposition he's facing he's played things pretty well, certainly a lot better than May ever did.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

The main problem for people on here is they just look at things from within their bubble and with their own perspectives without considering wider public opinion. It's why so many were shocked by trump and brexit. The most likely outcome of a general election is no overall majority but I wouldn't be surprised at all if the conservatives got a majority in order to carry out brexit. Johnson isn't going to prison, most people vastly prefer him as pm to may and corbyn and the majority don't give a stuff if he uses so called unparliamentary language or does something petty towards a parliament they have zero trust in. Tactically considering the huge opposition he's facing he's played things pretty well, certainly a lot better than May ever did.

 

I don't think people are looking at things from their own little bubble - I'm not sure what you think that we think will happen. The whole General Election will be played on whether the Tory's campaign is based on a deal or no deal.

[hypochondriac]

I don't think people are looking at things from their own little bubble - I'm not sure what you think that we think will happen. The whole General Election will be played on whether the Tory's campaign is based on a deal or no deal.

People saying how utterly horrendous Boris is, how evil the tories are etc. That's clearly not the general feeling around the country. Calling for Boris to be locked up for example is completely fanciful. If everyone felt how many do on here then the Tories would be wiped out and the Lib Dems would win by a landslide yet the polls still show Boris ahead with higher popularity than other leaders. Now most on here would dismiss that by saying that everyone who votes that way are thick idiots. In my opinion that's just a failure to understand that people can come to different conclusions to you and resent being called stupid or racist by people who have little understanding of their circumstances or their motivations for voting the way they do. Far easier to denigrate people than understand why they are voting a certain way. Edited 20 October, 2019 by hypochondriac

[sadoldgit]

I think it is something like the last 55 polls on the bounce, Tories/Johnson are ahead (and moving further away) from the others. Despite boris being a so-Called Lier, who was not talking to the EU, who would not be able to alter the WA or even have an altered arrangement to bring back in the 19 Oct... etc etc

 

That is of course, if you believe the polls

 

“So called lier?” He is called a liar because he tells lies. Surely even you can understand that?

[saint1977]

If the EU have got any sense of comedy they should give us an extension to December 31st 2020.

 

If we ratify departure we leave the next day, no problem: whether that is tomorrow, the end of the month or some time next spring. So if needed time for an election that isn't held over Christmas or in January.

 

However I think they will sit tight for now and see if the legislation can get through the HOC by the end of the month. The numbers suggest that this is possible now. If not they will let us roll on.

 

I know some people still don't get it, but the one thing that ain't ever going to happen is no deal.

 

This is what I think will happen and what I would do if I was the EU. My point last night was that Boris’s three letter tactic was incredibly unbecoming of a Prime Minister or of any office. That is what happens if the lunatics eg Cummings are really pulling his strings. It’s possible based on the numbers if Boris can step up on working rights that the deal can get through, but the now the deal is there, the swivels option of a WTO should be off the table. That was only ever meant to be leverage for this deal.

[shurlock]

People saying how utterly horrendous Boris is, how evil the tories are etc. That's clearly not the general feeling around the country. Calling for Boris to be locked up for example is completely fanciful. If everyone felt how many do on here then the Tories would be wiped out and the Lib Dems would win by a landslide yet the polls still show Boris ahead with higher popularity than other leaders. Now most on here would dismiss that by saying that everyone who votes that way are thick idiots. In my opinion that's just a failure to understand that people can come to different conclusions to you and resent being called stupid or racist by people who have little understanding of their circumstances or their motivations for voting the way they do. Far easier to denigrate people than understand why they are voting a certain way.

 

Leave aside your fatuous strawman (‘Now most on here would dismiss that by saying that everyone who votes that way are thick idiots’), people can be factually wrong (as you proved in your misunderstanding of how EU institutions work). That’s very different from having a common, objective set of facts and people simply drawing different conclusions from them. The former should always be robustly challenged and held to account; the latter is a reflection of our different preferences and priorities -and rightly need to be understood better. But simply celebrating difference for difference sake, however much it’s rooted in misperception, sounds awfully leftie and postmodern to me.

Edited 20 October, 2019 by shurlock

[Batman]

This is what I think will happen and what I would do if I was the EU. My point last night was that Boris’s three letter tactic was incredibly unbecoming of a Prime Minister or of any office. That is what happens if the lunatics eg Cummings are really pulling his strings. It’s possible based on the numbers if Boris can step up on working rights that the deal can get through, but the now the deal is there, the swivels option of a WTO should be off the table. That was only ever meant to be leverage for this deal.

Brexit bingo with you.

 

Unbecoming, lunatics, pulling strings, swivels.

 

Just missing - right wing, Racist and Nazi.

 

Not bad though.

[Batman]

“So called lier?” He is called a liar because he tells lies. Surely even you can understand that?

 

I understand he tells lies. I accept that. I also accept they are all at it. Telling fibs hourly.

[sadoldgit]

I understand he tells lies. I accept that. I also accept they are all at it. Telling fibs hourly.

 

But you said “so called.” You could have just said liar. There is a big difference between the PM telling lies and a back bencher telling lies. Just because he think they are all at it doesn’t absolve Johnson of telling the most outrageous howlers - many of which have been about the EU over the years. Last year he was filmed giving a speech where he categorically states that no Tory would support a border down the middle of the Irish Sea. Opps. The list is long and would have seen most honourable people resigning in shame not that long ago. The Observer have just published a hatchet job on his (and Cummings) character traits which makes neither of them worthy of the power they wield. Instead of watering down his propensity to say whatever he needs to to cling on to his dream job you should be calling him for the poor man’s Trump that he is. Unless of course you think that Trump is ok too?

[sadoldgit]

Brexit bingo with you.

 

Unbecoming, lunatics, pulling strings, swivels.

 

Just missing - right wing, Racist and Nazi.

 

Not bad though.

 

You think that his behaviour is ok? You’re ok with a Prime Minister stocking two fingers up to the law?

[Weston Super Saint]

But you said “so called.” You could have just said liar.

 

Are 'Isis' not actually 'Isis' every time a news reader mentions 'so called Isis'?

[Weston Super Saint]

You think that his behaviour is ok? You’re ok with a Prime Minister stocking two fingers up to the law?

 

When did he stick two fingers up to the law?

[sadoldgit]

When did he stick two fingers up to the law?

 

Last night for example. Then there is the small matter of giving public money to someone he was receiving “technology lessons” from.

[Batman]

Last night for example. Then there is the small matter of giving public money to someone he was receiving “technology lessons” from.

 

What did he do last night that was illegal?

[Batman]

But you said “so called.” You could have just said liar. There is a big difference between the PM telling lies and a back bencher telling lies. Just because he think they are all at it doesn’t absolve Johnson of telling the most outrageous howlers - many of which have been about the EU over the years. Last year he was filmed giving a speech where he categorically states that no Tory would support a border down the middle of the Irish Sea. Opps. The list is long and would have seen most honourable people resigning in shame not that long ago. The Observer have just published a hatchet job on his (and Cummings) character traits which makes neither of them worthy of the power they wield. Instead of watering down his propensity to say whatever he needs to to cling on to his dream job you should be calling him for the poor man’s Trump that he is. Unless of course you think that Trump is ok too?

 

I was on about the front benches telling lies.

They all do it.

 

Johnson does it, McDonnell does it, Swinson does it

 

They all do it.

 

If any paper did a hatchet job on any of them, there will be plenty of dirt on why none of them should be in the positions they are.

Any person who ‘wants’ to be Prime Minister must have a massive ego, shady backers and their own agenda.

 

I stunned that Labour continue to turn down a GE. Johnson and the Government will answer to the people. Surely, Corbyn or even Swinson will sweep to power? No?

Edited 20 October, 2019 by Batman

[Tamesaint]

What did he do last night that was illegal?

 

Wait and see what the courts of law say next week. Judges tend to know more about the law than Saintsweb legal experts and will decide if Johnson has broken the law.

[sadoldgit]

What did he do last night that was illegal?

 

You don’t know?

[sadoldgit]

Some Tory MPs have said that Johnson’s deal is worse than May’s. They voted against May’s but will vote for Johnson’s. How doez that have the brst interest of the country at heart?

[sadoldgit]

I was on about the front benches telling lies.

They all do it.

 

Johnson does it, McDonnell does it, Swinson does it

 

They all do it.

 

If any paper did a hatchet job on any of them, there will be plenty of dirt on why none of them should be in the positions they are.

Any person who ‘wants’ to be Prime Minister must have a massive ego, shady backers and their own agenda.

 

I stunned that Labour continue to turn down a GE. Johnson and the Government will answer to the people. Surely, Corbyn or even Swinson will sweep to power? No?

 

They all do it to the same extent? Johnson even claimed that there were no media present when there was a film crew standing a few feet away from him. But let’s pretend that somehow it is ok because they all do it. He and Trump have taken it to another level.