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Guided Missile

By Guided Missile,
in The Lounge

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Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum  

217 members have voted

  1. 1. Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum

    • Leave Before - Leave Now
      46
    • Leave Before - Remain Now
      10
    • Leave Before - Not Bothered Now
      2
    • Remain Before - Remain Now
      127
    • Remain Before - Leave Now
      7
    • Remain Before - Not Bothered Now
      1
    • Not Bothered Before - Leave Now
      3
    • Not Bothered Before - Remain Now
      5
    • I've never been bothered - Why am I on this Thread?
      3
    • No second Ref - 2016 was Definitive and Binding
      13

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
So I'm off to the US in a couple of weeks - do I hedge and purchase USD now, or risk it and wait until after October 31st?
but surely you're not flying, there must be a place in Hell waiting for you, I think the term you used against people like myself on another thread. Of course you are as like the majority of the others preaching about the end of the world, you want me to change my life but not your own one
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Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

Posted
Posted (edited)
but surely you're not flying, there must be a place in Hell waiting for you, I think the term you used against people like myself on another thread. Of course you are as like the majority of the others preaching about the end of the world, you want me to change my life but not your own one

 

Where did I say that people cannot fly, where did I say that people cannot have gas guzzling cars? I didn't, and I have never supported that or the extinction rebellion. Personally I think the changes will be technology based, rather than people making wholesale changes to their lives, and with a halt to destruction of the rainforests. I made this very clear on the other thread when you started going on about what car I've got, etc.

 

What I said was that it seems to be the older generation that have a problem with making changes to try to benefit their grandchildren.

Edited by Unbelievable Jeff
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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted (edited)
Where did I say that people cannot fly, where did I say that people cannot have gas guzzling cars? I didn't, and I have never supported that or the extinction rebellion. Personally I think the changes will be technology based, rather than people making wholesale changes to their lives, and with a halt to destruction of the rainforests. I made this very clear on the other thread when you started going on about what car I've got, etc.

 

What I said was that it seems to be the older generation that have a problem with making changes to try to benefit their grandchildren.

 

The internal combustion engine has been around for 140 years. It’s archaic and time to let it go. There are easy solutions to most emissions problems without anyone giving up anything very much. Air travel remains pretty the only area where there isn’t currently a viable alternative to oil derived fuel. But if we cut back everything else enough then it won’t matter as much.

Edited by buctootim
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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
The internal combustion engine has been around for 140 years. It’s archaic and time to let it go. There are easy solutions to most emissions problems without anyone giving up anything very much. Air travel remains pretty the only area where there isn’t currently a viable alternative to oil derived fuel. But if we cut back everything else enough then it won’t matter as much.
Please go across to the Extinction thread and there you may be able to explain how vans and lorries can be electric
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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
08:34

Here's how the pound is looking currently...

After an initial sharp drop, the pound has perked up a touch. £1 currently buys $1.2781 or €1.1535.

1571297614370_lc_galleryImage_.JPG

The pound is obviously a lot weaker than I would be if we hadn't had the leave result. It seems to me its going at present to be a softer Brexit that logically would be the best result for most of the population if we are to leave. Hence the pound has risen a tad. As I import fom the US at times I need to £ to be around $1.60 but if i was exporting again $1.20 is great. So as in all these things there are winners and losers . America for a holiday has become a very expensive place to go now with the exchange rate as well as the local taxes and the 18-22% service charge at the restaurants.
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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

What a fantastic day!

Boris has crushed the traitors and delivered an amazing deal, a victory for plucky British spirit against all common sense.....and I'm not sure anyone needs to see the detail, we've had enough of experts.

We can now close this thread - this day will unite the home nations, and we can all link arms as we skip towards the sunny uplands.

The end...

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
What a fantastic day!

Boris has crushed the traitors and delivered an amazing deal, a victory for plucky British spirit against all common sense.....and I'm not sure anyone needs to see the detail, we've had enough of experts.

We can now close this thread - this day will unite the home nations, and we can all link arms as we skip towards the sunny uplands.

The end...

I get your mirth Rallyboy but the alternative of no deal or the utter carnage of a 2nd ref!! is no good IMO
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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted

We have been at this for over 3 years so you would expect the negotiators to know what is acceptable to the Irish contingent and what is not. The DUP seem to be indicating that this is not acceptable to them. If that is the case, why aren’t we trying to negotiate something that would be acceptable to them?

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Guided Missile

Guided Missile

Posted
  • Author
Posted

An update:

  1. Get rid of the traitors in the party
  2. Replace sheep in wolves clothing with loyal Conservatives
  3. Unify the party
  4. Go to the EU with a freedom charter
  5. Taunt a divided Marxist dominated Labour, joke of a party during the run up
  6. Call an election
  7. Message: The People vs Parliament
  8. Arrange a deal with Nigel
  9. Win a substantial majority
  10. Watch Corbyn, Labour and the EU project sink without a trace

Like I said, playing a blinder.

 

....meanwhile

1571304590760_lc_galleryImage_.JPG

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aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted
Labour and DUP won't support the deal, so now we need to ask for an extension and have a General Election to try to break the impasse.

 

Chances are that will just end up with another hung parliament and wont achieve a thing, needs to be a second vote - that has been obvious for a while.

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LGTL

LGTL

Posted
Posted
Chances are that will just end up with another hung parliament and wont achieve a thing, needs to be a second vote - that has been obvious for a while.

 

Of course it’s the only way. Three option vote with no deal, leave only with deal and remain. Every single person on this thread knows it, Johnson knows it, Mogg knows it, every single person knows it. It’s the great big ****ing elephant in this god awful Brexit room.

 

Won’t happen though cos democracy.

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Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

Posted
Posted
Of course it’s the only way. Three option vote with no deal, leave only with deal and remain. Every single person on this thread knows it, Johnson knows it, Mogg knows it, every single person knows it. It’s the great big ****ing elephant in this god awful Brexit room.

 

Won’t happen though cos democracy.

 

It can't be a split vote like that - needs to be one remain and one leave.

 

Either way, how do you implement that unless the vote is legally enforcable (which I guess is what needs to happen).

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aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted
It can't be a split vote like that - needs to be one remain and one leave.

 

Either way, how do you implement that unless the vote is legally enforcable (which I guess is what needs to happen).

 

You just get Parliament to approve the deal on the condition of a legally binding confirmatory vote, then it wouldn't have to go through the house again.

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Shroppie

Shroppie

Posted
Posted
Of course it’s the only way. Three option vote with no deal, leave only with deal and remain. Every single person on this thread knows it, Johnson knows it, Mogg knows it, every single person knows it. It’s the great big ****ing elephant in this god awful Brexit room.

 

Won’t happen though cos democracy.

This is obviously right.

 

But we can st last see Johnson's tactics. Get a deal, any deal, no matter how bad. Try to get it through with threats and bribes. If it passes, never mind the consequences, he "got Brexit done".

 

But as insurance, he's asking the EU, since there is a deal, to refuse any extension, so that he can present parliament with this deal or no deal only. (I assume the Benn Act falls?). To my mind, it would be appalling if this happened. Blatant railroading of an awful deal.

 

All opposition must now unite both to rule out, again, no deal, hopefully vote down the deal but at least attach a confirmation referendum.

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted
What are you trying to prove, that the prospect of a deal is a positive thing for the pound? That's what Shurlock has always said?

 

Absolutely - three years on and the cretin still doesn’t understand the relationship between Brexit and the pound. I also told him I sold my holdings weeks ago after the Benn Act passed which substantially reduced the chances of no deal. The poor fella really is a bit dim.

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Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

Posted
Posted
Absolutely - three years on and the cretin still doesn’t understand the relationship between Brexit and the pound. I also told him I sold my holdings weeks ago after the Benn Act passed which substantially reduced the chances of no deal. The poor fella really is a bit dim.

 

I can't work out if he's just thick, or wilfully misunderstanding. The same as you are likely to see a increase in the FTSE on the prospect of a No deal, mainly because the prospect of No Deal will lead to a fall in currency, which means that shares are cheaper and will see more being bought from abroad. Of course, this will then plateau, and potentially fall once the currency stabilises and shares hit peak value.

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Tamesaint

Tamesaint

Posted
Posted
The £UK has fallen against the $US and the €Euro, I wonder if GM will find a graph for us.

 

Don't encourage him. He is regarded as a fool by most people on here. Don't give him another chance to display his ignorance .... oh sorry I am too late and see that he has already responded.

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
I can't work out if he's just thick, or wilfully misunderstanding. The same as you are likely to see a increase in the FTSE on the prospect of a No deal, mainly because the prospect of No Deal will lead to a fall in currency, which means that shares are cheaper and will see more being bought from abroad. Of course, this will then plateau, and potentially fall once the currency stabilises and shares hit peak value.
Well that's not correct, the reason that shares go up when the pound falls is that our companies that make profit abroad have their earnings in $ , in theory means larger profits.
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Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

Posted
Posted
Well that's not correct, the reason that shares go up when the pound falls is that our companies that make profit abroad have their earnings in $ , in theory means larger profits.

 

It's both TBF, but don't forget that's also based on the majority of profits being based on Dollars and Euros, whereas other currencies have tended to be relatively stable and would not show much of a change for a short term shock.

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
So are there any details of Boris's great new deal? Is it radically different to May's deal or is it just the same deal, with a bit of cosmetic surgery, to try and make Boris look good?

It is fundamentally the same deal, with some fudging of the Irish problem. There hasn't been time to unpick most of what took months to negotiate, so they have painted the despised 'backstop' in pretty colours in the hope that it sneaks past. Unfortunately the DUP noticed, and won't play along.

If only Teresa hadn't called her General Election.

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norwaysaint

norwaysaint

Posted
Posted

Is the deal so bad? It doesn't seem much better or worse than May's deal. I don't think it's going to get better. I think it's this or no deal. Surely this deal is better than no deal? I know a lot of people will be against it because they don't like Boris/Brexit, but realistically, parliament should be looking for the best brexit solution and voting for it. What improvements are people hoping for?

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
Juncker rules out extension...

 

 

So, presumably, when the deal is not ratified by Parliament at the weekend (Labour and the DUP have stated they will vote against it), Boris will ask for an extension, the EU will deny it as there is a 'deal' as far as they are concerned and a no deal exit / crash / disaster / end of the world, will happen on the 31st October.....

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted (edited)
Quick update:

 

19831352-7582843-image-a-3_1571306892825.jpg

"Pound Sterling rallied after the EU and UK finally sealed a Brexit deal, but the currency subsequently sunk again as it dawned on foreign exchange markets the deal will be dead on arrival at Westminster."

 

sterling-spikes-against-the-dollar-brexit-deal.png

 

https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/gbp-live-today/12235-brexit-deal-done-pound-sterling-rallies-vs-euro-and-dollar-on-breakthrough

Edited by badgerx16
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Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

Posted
Posted
So, presumably, when the deal is not ratified by Parliament at the weekend (Labour and the DUP have stated they will vote against it), Boris will ask for an extension, the EU will deny it as there is a 'deal' as far as they are concerned and a no deal exit / crash / disaster / end of the world, will happen on the 31st October.....

 

It might not get that far - the DUP may recognise this and come around anyway, as a No Deal Brexit means a hard border and that is more unpalatable than this deal.

 

Oh, and Juncker may well go back on that anyway - it hasn't been voted on yet - with a prospect of the deal going through if there is a GE and the chance of a deal going through.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
Posted

Early indications would suggest the PM isn't going to get a lot of support for his deal.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/17/uk-and-eu-agree-on-new-brexit-deal-boris-johnson-says.html

 

Johnson faced a Saturday deadline by law to request an extension to the current Brexit departure date of Oct. 31 had no deal been reached.

 

Whether the deal will be approved in Westminster is in doubt, however, with opposition parties already criticizing it.

 

While details of the new deal remain scant, the U.K. opposition Labour party said in a statement that "from what we know, it seems the Prime Minister has negotiated an even worse deal than Theresa May's, which was overwhelmingly rejected." The pro-Remain Liberal Democrats also said they were determined to stop Brexit altogether and still advocated a second referendum. The leader of the Brexit Party, Nigel Farage, said the deal should not be supported. The Scottish National Party (SNP) has also said it will not vote for the deal.

 

A key ally of the government, the Northern Irish Democratic Unionist Party (DUP), has already responded by saying that it cannot support the deal.

 

 

 

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
This is obviously right.

 

But we can st last see Johnson's tactics. Get a deal, any deal, no matter how bad. Try to get it through with threats and bribes. If it passes, never mind the consequences, he "got Brexit done".

 

But as insurance, he's asking the EU, since there is a deal, to refuse any extension, so that he can present parliament with this deal or no deal only. (I assume the Benn Act falls?). To my mind, it would be appalling if this happened. Blatant railroading of an awful deal.

 

All opposition must now unite both to rule out, again, no deal, hopefully vote down the deal but at least attach a confirmation referendum.

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

The opposition had the opportunity to go for a GE. They didnt as they knew they would probably lose heavily, as I suspect the man on the street wants it done and is sick of politics.

So it is not worth crying about the right and wrongs of what BJ is doing as if they really were opposed they should have had the GE.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
Posted
It might not get that far - the DUP may recognise this and come around anyway, as a No Deal Brexit means a hard border and that is more unpalatable than this deal.

 

Oh, and Juncker may well go back on that anyway - it hasn't been voted on yet - with a prospect of the deal going through if there is a GE and the chance of a deal going through.

I get the feeling the DUP would secretly love a hard border. What they don't want under any circumstances is anything that promotes the idea NI is in some way different to the rest of the Uk which undermines their unionist ideals.

 

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
The opposition had the opportunity to go for a GE. They didnt as they knew they would probably lose heavily, as I suspect the man on the street wants it done and is sick of politics.

So it is not worth crying about the right and wrongs of what BJ is doing as if they really were opposed they should have had the GE.

They rejected an October GE because BoJo could have gerrymandered the date once Parliament had been dissolved, and we would get 'no deal' by default, before the poll.

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Shroppie

Shroppie

Posted
Posted
So, presumably, when the deal is not ratified by Parliament at the weekend (Labour and the DUP have stated they will vote against it), Boris will ask for an extension, the EU will deny it as there is a 'deal' as far as they are concerned and a no deal exit / crash / disaster / end of the world, will happen on the 31st October.....
Except that refusing an extension isn't something Junker can decide by himself. It's a council decision. And the Benn Act still applies if parliament don't pass the deal.

 

Also, note that Rees-Mogg wanted a very brief unamendable motion debate, but that's been overruled and the motion will be amendable, possibly to attach a confirmatory referendum and Bercow says it can go on as long as needed.

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
They rejected an October GE because BoJo could have gerrymandered the date once Parliament had been dissolved, and we would get 'no deal' by default, before the poll.
It depends if you believe they really wanted a No Deal. A negotiated deal was always going to be better. Is there any reason now then for Labour not to call an election?
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Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

Posted
Posted
It depends if you believe they really wanted a No Deal. A negotiated deal was always going to be better. Is there any reason now then for Labour not to call an election?

 

Of course they wanted a No Deal, that is what the ERG wanted.

 

Labour can't call an election - they can raise a Vote of No confidence, but they need to wait until after the extension has been asked for and agreed to.

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