Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[aintforever]

We seem to be going round in circles - but hey, let's try again.

 

With non-EU immigration (100%, total, complete control) the Tories failed and Labour and the LDs won't promise anything to resolve it, and voting for anyone else is like shoving a polling card up your bottom (according to you).

 

Why would EU immigration be different and who are you going to vote for to hold the Tories to account?

 

You could stop every single non EU immigrant but we still wouldn't know if net migration is 100,000 or 500,000. If is completely out of control so the government has no reason to stop doctors and nurses coming in from Asia. Plus, there are only so many controls you can realistically put on immigration.

 

Some control is better than none.

[Whitey Grandad]

You could stop every single non EU immigrant but we still wouldn't know if net migration is 100,000 or 500,000. If is completely out of control so the government has no reason to stop doctors and nurses coming in from Asia. Plus, there are only so many controls you can realistically put on immigration.

 

Some control is better than none.

 

No it's not, it makes no difference. As you say, it's out of control. If the rest of the world can come in now as easily as the EU then what difference will it make when the EU become another part of the rest of the world?

[Sour Mash]

No it's not, it makes no difference. As you say, it's out of control. If the rest of the world can come in now as easily as the EU then what difference will it make when the EU become another part of the rest of the world?

 

But the rest of the world can't come in as easy as from the EU. You're still peddling that lie.

[CB Fry]

You could stop every single non EU immigrant but we still wouldn't know if net migration is 100,000 or 500,000. If is completely out of control so the government has no reason to stop doctors and nurses coming in from Asia. Plus, there are only so many controls you can realistically put on immigration.

 

Some control is better than none.

 

So no way of knowing how many, only so many controls you can put in (the same controls we have now), no one you can vote out or in to make any difference so no way of holding anyone to account because you might as well shove your polling card up your bum.

 

Sounds great.

[buctootim]

But the rest of the world can't come in as easy as from the EU. You're still peddling that lie.

 

Its not a lie. Approval rates for many types of visa are over 99%

[Sour Mash]

Its not a lie. Approval rates for many types of visa are over 99%

 

It is a lie. Not complicated to understand.

[aintforever]

No it's not, it makes no difference. As you say, it's out of control. If the rest of the world can come in now as easily as the EU then what difference will it make when the EU become another part of the rest of the world?

 

That's nonsense, Three-quarters of EU citizens working in the UK would not meet the current visa requirements for non-EU workers.

[Whitey Grandad]

But the rest of the world can't come in as easy as from the EU. You're still peddling that lie.

 

The numbers speak for themselves. Individually it is more difficult for the ROTW but there are a lot more of them. The result is around 150,000 annually of each at the moment.

[Whitey Grandad]

That's nonsense, Three-quarters of EU citizens working in the UK would not meet the current visa requirements for non-EU workers.

 

See above.

[aintforever]

See above.

 

You said it's as easy to come here from the rest of the world as the EU which is clearly ******. You can just turn up from Africa with your kids and get a cleaners job.

 

Most non EU migration is just students anyway.

[Lord Duckhunter]

How high would immigration be if the whole world had the right of free movement to the uk Whitey?

[hutch]

You can't apply for a UK working visa from outside the EU unless you can bring with you to your local (foreign) screening interview certified copies of all of the required documentation including birth certificates for you and your relevant family, police clearances, education certificates and qualifications, working references, bank statements and any other relevant documents. If you can't provide all of those your application will not even be accepted. You don't get to deal with British people at the local Embassy or Consulate any more, it is all outsourced to local third-party agents, who just tick boxes. There's no negotiation or discussion, because you can't get any access to Embassy staff. Provide what is required or go away. If your application is accepted then all the documents are sent to UK for checking, and your visa is issued here and then sent back for you to collect from the local agent. And it isn't cheap.

 

If you can actually get to the stage that your application is accepted and sent back to the UK for checking and issuing, then you're pretty much home and dry. But the local agents work behind security screens for a reason in many of the offices I've seen in Africa. It can get a bit tasty when people are rejected, and there are plenty of tears.

Edited 17 September, 2016 by hutch

[Sour Mash]

The numbers speak for themselves. Individually it is more difficult for the ROTW but there are a lot more of them. The result is around 150,000 annually of each at the moment.

 

I'm just pointing out you're peddling the same lie you have been for a while, that's all.

[Whitey Grandad]

I'm just pointing out you're peddling the same lie you have been for a while, that's all.

 

You are completely or deliberately misunderstanding what I wrote. 'Rest of the World' is a generic term which does not reduce to individuals. Read again what I wrote. The net migration figures demonstrate that we have as many coming from the ROTW as we do from the EU and it's only it the last couple of years that this equality has been reached. For an individual person it is more difficult to get access but taken as a whole the results are that more come from the ROTW. An it's the result that matters. No lies about these figures and I ask you to withdraw your allegation. https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/

 

To return to the original point. If nothing has been done to restrict the ROTW immigration up to now why do you think it will magically reduced after Brexit?

[hypochondriac]

You are completely or deliberately misunderstanding what I wrote. 'Rest of the World' is a generic term which does not reduce to individuals. Read again what I wrote. The net migration figures demonstrate that we have as many coming from the ROTW as we do from the EU and it's only it the last couple of years that this equality has been reached. For an individual person it is more difficult to get access but taken as a whole the results are that more come from the ROTW. An it's the result that matters. No lies about these figures and I ask you to withdraw your allegation. https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/

 

To return to the original point. If nothing has been done to restrict the ROTW immigration up to now why do you think it will magically reduced after Brexit?

Just because more come does not mean it's easier for them to do so. We know this because if the rest of the world had freedom of movement like the EU then it's very likely that far far more would end up here. Odd thing to argue about though. It's clear that it would be much easier to control immigration outside of freedom of movement if there was political will to do so. Whether that's a positive or not is a matter of opinion.

[Sour Mash]

You are completely or deliberately misunderstanding what I wrote. 'Rest of the World' is a generic term which does not reduce to individuals. Read again what I wrote. The net migration figures demonstrate that we have as many coming from the ROTW as we do from the EU and it's only it the last couple of years that this equality has been reached. For an individual person it is more difficult to get access but taken as a whole the results are that more come from the ROTW. An it's the result that matters. No lies about these figures and I ask you to withdraw your allegation. https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/

 

To return to the original point. If nothing has been done to restrict the ROTW immigration up to now why do you think it will magically reduced after Brexit?

 

Still the same lie.

[hutch]

An it's the result that matters.

Nonsense. It's the make up of the result that matters. 100,000 trained qualified doctors, nurses or rocket scientists are welcome. 100,000 office cleaners or burger flippers are not.

 

Yes, I have quoted extremes to get my point across, but I'm sure you get my drift about why controlled immigration is important. It isn't about numbers.

[buctootim]

Nonsense. It's the make up of the result that matters. 100,000 trained qualified doctors, nurses or rocket scientists are welcome. 100,000 office cleaners or burger flippers are not.

 

Yes, I have quoted extremes to get my point across, but I'm sure you get my drift about why controlled immigration is important. It isn't about numbers.

 

It isn't just about numbers, but its about numbers too.

 

We shouldn't be poaching trained doctors and nurses from developing countries because we can pay more. We should be training our own.

[aintforever]

To return to the original point. If nothing has been done to restrict the ROTW immigration up to now why do you think it will magically reduced after Brexit?

 

If we use the same criteria for EU as we do currently for the ROTW most of the people coming in from Poland etc wouldn't get in.

[Lord Duckhunter]

We shouldn't be poaching trained doctors and nurses from developing countries because we can pay more. We should be training our own.

 

I made this point in the pre referendum thread ,of course assorted remoaners & lefties wouldn't have it .

 

Never worked out how caring , sharing " progressive " lefties are happy for poorer ( and in some cases dirt poor) countries spend money training doctors, midwives & dentists , only for us to pinch them . The same goes for the brightest & the best . Germany want young fit immigrant men to boost their economy & generate taxes to look after their aging population . How are these poorer countries going to devolop if loads of their entrepreneurs , fit youngsters & tradesmen bugger off to help rich nations get richer .

[Verbal]

News courtesy of post-fact Breximentalists.

 

A YouGov poll among Leave voters finds that 44% of them think a trade deal with Australia is the highest priority. Only 23% of them, think a trade deal with the EU is the highest priority. The EU doesn't even rank in the top 5 for Leavers.

 

Unfortunately, while the EU presently takes 44% of UK exports, Australia takes just 1.6%.

 

Madness rendered statistically.

 

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/09/17/which-countries-should-uk-prioritise-post-brexit-t/

[hutch]

Or maybe some people think that if large parts of the world can trade successfully with the EU every day without any trade deal, then just maybe we might do the same?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Perhaps people don't want to tie themselves to a basket case & see potential in other areas.

 

In other news that fruit loop vicar who runs the Lib/dumbs is worried we are sleep walking out of the EU . What a plum , eyes wide open following a national debate Timmy

[Whitey Grandad]

Or maybe some people think that if large parts of the world can trade successfully with the EU every day without any trade deal, then just maybe we might do the same?

 

There's a very, very big difference between a trade deal and a Single Market.

[hutch]

But if you were to look at it objectively, with an open mind, you might conclude that it depends on the terms of the deal.

[Wes Tender]

There's a very, very big difference between a trade deal and a Single Market.

 

There is indeed. Any trade deals that we negotiate with the rest of the World, will be ones that we have arranged between us and our chosen trade partner, to our mutual benefit, on terms acceptable to both parties.

 

The deal with the EU on the other hand, is a deal with 27 member states, encumbered with masses of red tape, precludes us arranging our own trade deals as a separate entity, has a high financial cost of membership and involves the necessity for us to accept unlimited and uncontrolled immigration from other EU member states.

 

Regarding this poll, we all know how accurate these YouGov polls are, don't we? They begin by stating that a trade deal with the EU post-Brexit will be complicated and take a long time to arrange. And then some idiots wonder why the British public are attracted to do trade deals with countries with which we have such strong historic, cultural and language ties with, and which as a result will be easier to arrange. The argument about the percentages of trade we do currently with those countries compared to the volume with the EU is totally spurious. For all the time we have been members of the EU, we have been prohibited from arranging trade agreements with them, as only the EU could arrange that on behalf of the member states. So bearing in mind the inefficiency with which the EU go about these things, it is not surprising that our trade with those countries with strong historic ties to the UK is not high.

[buctootim]

There is indeed. Any trade deals that we negotiate with the rest of the World, will be ones that we have arranged between us and our chosen trade partner, to our mutual benefit, on terms acceptable to both parties.

 

The deal with the EU on the other hand, is a deal with 27 member states, encumbered with masses of red tape, precludes us arranging our own trade deals as a separate entity, has a high financial cost of membership and involves the necessity for us to accept unlimited and uncontrolled immigration from other EU member states.

 

Regarding this poll, we all know how accurate these YouGov polls are, don't we? They begin by stating that a trade deal with the EU post-Brexit will be complicated and take a long time to arrange. And then some idiots wonder why the British public are attracted to do trade deals with countries with which we have such strong historic, cultural and language ties with, and which as a result will be easier to arrange. The argument about the percentages of trade we do currently with those countries compared to the volume with the EU is totally spurious. For all the time we have been members of the EU, we have been prohibited from arranging trade agreements with them, as only the EU could arrange that on behalf of the member states. So bearing in mind the inefficiency with which the EU go about these things, it is not surprising that our trade with those countries with strong historic ties to the UK is not high.

 

You've consistently failed to understand even the basics of EU membership. Yet you think can lecture an exporter to the EU on the merits / demerits of exporting to the EU. Absolutely bizarre mentality.

[Whitey Grandad]

There is indeed. Any trade deals that we negotiate with the rest of the World, will be ones that we have arranged between us and our chosen trade partner, to our mutual benefit, on terms acceptable to both parties.

 

The deal with the EU on the other hand, is a deal with 27 member states, encumbered with masses of red tape, precludes us arranging our own trade deals as a separate entity, has a high financial cost of membership and involves the necessity for us to accept unlimited and uncontrolled immigration from other EU member states.

 

Regarding this poll, we all know how accurate these YouGov polls are, don't we? They begin by stating that a trade deal with the EU post-Brexit will be complicated and take a long time to arrange. And then some idiots wonder why the British public are attracted to do trade deals with countries with which we have such strong historic, cultural and language ties with, and which as a result will be easier to arrange. The argument about the percentages of trade we do currently with those countries compared to the volume with the EU is totally spurious. For all the time we have been members of the EU, we have been prohibited from arranging trade agreements with them, as only the EU could arrange that on behalf of the member states. So bearing in mind the inefficiency with which the EU go about these things, it is not surprising that our trade with those countries with strong historic ties to the UK is not high.

 

Masses of red tape??? That's exactly what it isn't.

[buctootim]

News courtesy of post-fact Breximentalists.

 

A YouGov poll among Leave voters finds that 44% of them think a trade deal with Australia is the highest priority. Only 23% of them, think a trade deal with the EU is the highest priority. The EU doesn't even rank in the top 5 for Leavers.

 

Unfortunately, while the EU presently takes 44% of UK exports, Australia takes just 1.6%.

 

Madness rendered statistically.

 

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/09/17/which-countries-should-uk-prioritise-post-brexit-t/

 

I know. They obsess about fisheries too, despite it being 0.05% of GDP whilst the car industry, 80 times the size at 4%, will just have to lump tariffs. Economic illiterates mostly.

[Wes Tender]

You've consistently failed to understand even the basics of EU membership. Yet you think can lecture an exporter to the EU on the merits / demerits of exporting to the EU. Absolutely bizarre mentality.

 

No doubt you'll highlight the part of my post where you think that I've misunderstood the basics of EU membership, won't you? And I have to laugh at you thinking that I'm attempting to lecture anybody, rather than just expressing an opinion. The merits/demerits of our trade with the EU were well documented by both sides during the referendum debate and it is typical of the sheer arrogance of the Remainians that that they refuse to accept that the majority who voted to leave could have arrived at their decision having weighed up the pros and cons or had as many good reasons for voting that way as the lot who voted to stay in did.

[Wes Tender]

I know. They obsess about fisheries too, despite it being 0.05% of GDP whilst the car industry, 80 times the size at 4%, will just have to lump tariffs. Economic illiterates mostly.

 

You're just so sure that there will be tariffs lumped onto the trade in cars between us and the EU, are you? On what evidence do you make that prediction. Economic literacy?

[buctootim]

You're just so sure that there will be tariffs lumped onto the trade in cars between us and the EU, are you? On what evidence do you make that prediction. Economic literacy?

 

Err no. The EU apply 10% tariffs to cars imported from non single market countries under WTO rules. I'm surprised you hadn't heard, being so clued up on the EU an all. See post 1427 rinse and repeat. Learning curve flatlining.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36628918

Edited 19 September, 2016 by buctootim

[Johnny Bognor]

Err no. The EU apply 10% tariffs to cars imported from non single market countries under WTO rules. I'm surprised you hadn't heard, being so clued up on the EU an all. See post 1427 rinse and repeat. Learning curve flatlining.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36628918

So with a 12% drop in the pound, they'll still be 2% cheaper than they were in June. Result

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[buctootim]

So with a 12% drop in the pound, they'll still be 2% cheaper than they were in June. Result

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

You can join the Wes club. As has been explained before, so congrats for still not getting it, no manufacturer is going to stay in Britain if they have to pay 10% duty on imported parts and then another 10% on exports.

[Johnny Bognor]

You can join the Wes club. As has been explained before, so congrats for still not getting it, no manufacturer is going to stay in Britain if they have to pay 10% duty on imported parts and then another 10% of exports.

 

Errrr not all parts are imported from the EU ...

 

But also factor in that our labour costs are also 12% cheaper relatively speaking.. offsetting much of the tarrifs element.

 

Not to mention that a car makers general overhead in the UK is also 12% cheaper relatively speaking. ..

 

.. add in a corporation tax rate of 15%, which has already been mooted and the change in the cost of exporting could be minimal. (Perhaps we could use the tarrifs placed on EU goods to fund a more attractive corporation tax rate )

 

But I guess if you get your economic advice from a history graduate that's spent most of his time editing comments in the independent, then you won't be able to look at wider economic implications...

 

.. and there is nothing to stop us having zero tarrifs on EU automotive parts.

 

Apart from that, you make a good point lol....

Edited 19 September, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[buctootim]

Errrr not all parts are imported from the EU ...

 

But also factor in that our labour costs are also 12% cheaper relatively speaking.. offsetting much of the tarrifs element.

 

Not to mention that a car makers general overhead in the UK is also 12% cheaper relatively speaking. ..

 

.. add in a corporation tax rate of 15%, which has already been mooted and the change in the cost of exporting could be minimal. (Perhaps we could use the tarrifs placed on EU goods to fund a more attractive corporation tax rate )

 

But I guess if you get your economic advice from a history graduate that's spent most of his time editing comments in the independent, then you won't be able to look at wider economic implications...

 

.. and there is nothing to stop us having zero tarrifs on EU automotive parts.

 

Apart from that, you make a good point lol....

 

Back to basics.

1. You might be a little less obviously out of your depth if when talking about trade the EU and WTO you knew how to spell tariffs.

2. Manufacturers dont base their strategy on short term currency fluctuations. Sure the exchange rate currently is 12% lower than June but the long term average exchange rate is around 1.4 euros to the pound - ie higher than before the referendum. Higher exchange rate equals more expensive exports.

3. Corporation tax is mostly paid by companies in their home countries. Rates paid by permanent establishments is normally much lower. Guess how many of Ford, Nissan, Honda, Mini and Toyota are British? Even Jaguar LR probably have a sweetheart deal with India.

4. It was verbal who quoted him, not me.

[Johnny Bognor]

Back to basics.

1. You might be a little less obviously out of your depth if when talking about trade the EU and WTO you knew how to spell tariffs.

2. Manufacturers dont base their strategy on short term currency fluctuations. Sure the exchange rate currently is 12% lower than June but the long term average exchange rate is around 1.4 euros to the pound - ie higher than before the referendum. Higher exchange rate equals more expensive exports.

3. Corporation tax is mostly paid by companies in their home countries. Rates paid by permanent establishments is normally much lower. Guess how many of Ford, Nissan, Honda, Mini and Toyota are British? Even Jaguar LR probably have a sweetheart deal with India.

4. It was verbal who quoted him, not me.

LOL grammar and spelling is a nice diversion from the main points.

 

Whilst we are on the basics, the pound fell on fears of leaving the EU. Yes exchange rates vary all the time, but the past norm doesn't really apply now. Not in the short or the medium term. The pound may fall further after article 50 is triggered.

 

EU components are only part of the cost in building a car.

 

The overheads do not go up, labour does not go up.

 

A 15% corporate tax rate will help suppliers to plants.

 

My point being is that in isolation tariffs might be an issue but the are many more things to consider. It's not as simple as your average history graduate would have you believe. ..

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[hutch]

I don't know why the idiots that infest this thread continue to expose their stupidity so regularly. But anyway, here's a little factoid for you...

 

South Africa’s trade relations with the EU have been governed by the Trade, Development and Co-operation Agreement (TDCA) which became effective on 1 January 2000. The agreement is based on preferential import duty rates for certain products having been deemed to originate in the partner country. South Africa had granted duty-free status to 86% of its EU imports by 1 January 2012, while the EU had provided duty-free status to 95% of South Africa’s exports since 1 January 2010. The automotive part of the TDCA was only concluded on 15 December 2006. As a result, the 3% import duty on original equipment components and the 4,5% duty on aftermarket parts were reduced to duty-free on 15 December 2006, while the 10% import duty on passenger cars was reduced to 3,5% on 15 December 2006, to 1,5% on 1 January 2007 and fell away completely in January 2008. As far as commercial vehicles were concerned, South African commercial vehicle exports to the EU were already duty-free and unaffected by the agreement.

 

And FWIW the manufacturers concerned are Mercedes Benz, BMW, Volkswagen, Toyota, Nissan, Ford and General Motors. The largest worldwide export markets for vehicles produced in South Africa are Germany (by value) and UK (by volume). So if you're driving around in a 3-series, or a C-Class or a HiLux or a Polo, that's you (because the RHD versions are produced in SA).

 

And just one other little factoid to ponder. In pretty much every country that I do business in (and I mean do actually do real business, not read about it on google), temporary imports intended for re-export are duty-free, usually upon provision of a bank or insurance "customs bond" provided to the local Government department.

Edited 20 September, 2016 by hutch

[Wes Tender]

Err no. The EU apply 10% tariffs to cars imported from non single market countries under WTO rules. I'm surprised you hadn't heard, being so clued up on the EU an all. See post 1427 rinse and repeat. Learning curve flatlining.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36628918

 

I was quite well aware of the WTO tariff on cars, but you hadn't made it clear that you were talking about that being the way that you thought we would go. Up until now, your position has been unequivocally that we would be forced into some Norway or Switzerland type of arrangement. I'm pleased to see that you have opened your mind to there being other options. Whichever way we decide to go in the future, it is clearly the case that it is not in the EU's interests to have tariffs applied to their automotive industries and they will have two years to arrive at that conclusion once we trigger Article 50.

[Wes Tender]

You can join the Wes club. As has been explained before, so congrats for still not getting it, no manufacturer is going to stay in Britain if they have to pay 10% duty on imported parts and then another 10% on exports.

 

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-3791684/Built-Britain-car-conquer-America-Brexit-boost-Honda-makes-UK-global-hub.html

 

Either Honda doesn't think that they will be paying the tariff, or they aren't that bothered by it.

[buctootim]

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-3791684/Built-Britain-car-conquer-America-Brexit-boost-Honda-makes-UK-global-hub.html

 

Either Honda doesn't think that they will be paying the tariff, or they aren't that bothered by it.

 

The former, as stated in the first line of the article "planning an export boom outside Europe after Brexit as it seeks to boost profits from the US and Canada" Obviously thats good news, but the decision and commencement of the tooling was made before Brexit. Its too late for them to change now. Car plants work on cycles of 6-7 years so there isnt going to be an immediate exit. Lack of access to the single market would simply mean a failure by UK plants to win production of new models ansd a gradual running down of the industry.

 

As the FT reported in July https://www.ft.com/content/27d7b066-447c-11e6-b22f-79eb4891c97don "The PA Consulting report argues that of the British plants owned by overseas carmakers, those operated by Japanese companies — Honda, Toyota and Nissan — are at greatest risk of eventual closure if the factories become uneconomic after Brexit. The three companies’ factories, which PA Consulting says have a “high reliance on exports to Europe and relatively low margins”, account for roughly half the vehicles made in the UK. Tim Lawrence, head of manufacturing at PA, says Honda and Toyota have struggled to extract meaningful profits from their UK operations since the late 1980s because the plants are running at low capacity, reflecting how the factories are making some of the companies’ less popular vehicles. Honda’s Swindon site will become the global manufacturing hub for the five-door Civic car in 2017, but within three years the company must take a long-term decision about whether to renew this or move the work elsewhere.

 

http://www.paconsulting.com/our-thinking/brexit-and-the-automotive-sector/

Edited 20 September, 2016 by buctootim

[Verbal]

Brexiteers take rejection of experts to the next level...

 

Duncan Carswell, UKIP's one and only MP/dissident, has rejected hundreds of years of scientific proof that tides are caused by the moon. He insists the Earth's tides are affected by the Sun because it's bigger.

 

https://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/09/embarrassed-ukip-mp-carswell-deletes-tweets-after-arguing-with-an-experts-on-tides-and-brexit/

 

Good to know that our most prominent Leavers are on the case.

[Wes Tender]

Brexiteers take rejection of experts to the next level...

 

Duncan Carswell, UKIP's one and only MP/dissident, has rejected hundreds of years of scientific proof that tides are caused by the moon. He insists the Earth's tides are affected by the Sun because it's bigger.

 

https://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/09/embarrassed-ukip-mp-carswell-deletes-tweets-after-arguing-with-an-experts-on-tides-and-brexit/

 

Good to know that our most prominent Leavers are on the case.

 

Who is this Duncan Carswell bloke? Never heard of him.

[buctootim]

Brexiteers take rejection of experts to the next level...

 

Duncan Carswell, UKIP's one and only MP/dissident, has rejected hundreds of years of scientific proof that tides are caused by the moon. He insists the Earth's tides are affected by the Sun because it's bigger.

 

https://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/09/embarrassed-ukip-mp-carswell-deletes-tweets-after-arguing-with-an-experts-on-tides-and-brexit/

 

Good to know that our most prominent Leavers are on the case.

 

The scientist didn't attach enough importance to the phenomena of 'wanting something to be true'. You want it enough and it trumps all facts apparently.

[Johnny Bognor]

Brexiteers take rejection of experts to the next level...

 

Duncan Carswell, UKIP's one and only MP/dissident, has rejected hundreds of years of scientific proof that tides are caused by the moon. He insists the Earth's tides are affected by the Sun because it's bigger.

 

https://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/09/embarrassed-ukip-mp-carswell-deletes-tweets-after-arguing-with-an-experts-on-tides-and-brexit/

 

Good to know that our most prominent Leavers are on the case.

 

 

Well Brown thought he had abolished boom and bust which lefties lapped up.. and he ended up running the country...

 

Sorry, ruining the country

[Verbal]

Who is this Duncan Carswell bloke? Never heard of him.

 

Of course you'd spot that, kippy. If you want more on Westminster's dimmest Tory/kipper, try this on twitter - #AskCarswell. Even you might laugh.

 

Onto more canary-in-a-coalmine news, the Swiss lower parliament is due to have a vote tomorrow (Wednesday) which should give Brexiteers the willies.

 

In early 2014, the Swiss held a referendum on restricting freedom of movement. Swiss kippers won - in a referendum which, unlike the UK one, was binding. The result mandated the parliament to negotiate a way out of freedom of movement in two years. That deadline expires in February, but Swiss parliamentarians are ready to throw in the towel now.

 

Having being warned, like us, that they'd lose their single market access status, they're about to vote to approve a deal that includes an 'emergency brake' - a brake that can only be triggered with the EU's consent.

[badgerx16]

Onto more canary-in-a-coalmine news, the Swiss lower parliament is due to have a vote tomorrow (Wednesday) which should give Brexiteers the willies.

 

In early 2014, the Swiss held a referendum on restricting freedom of movement. Swiss kippers won - in a referendum which, unlike the UK one, was binding. The result mandated the parliament to negotiate a way out of freedom of movement in two years. That deadline expires in February, but Swiss parliamentarians are ready to throw in the towel now.

 

Having being warned, like us, that they'd lose their single market access status, they're about to vote to approve a deal that includes an 'emergency brake' - a brake that can only be triggered with the EU's consent.

 

But we're Great Britain, and we're special. We can negotiate with anybody and will always get exactly what we want. I know it's true, a politician promised me.

[Wes Tender]

Of course you'd spot that, kippy. If you want more on Westminster's dimmest Tory/kipper, try this on twitter - #AskCarswell. Even you might laugh.

 

Onto more canary-in-a-coalmine news, the Swiss lower parliament is due to have a vote tomorrow (Wednesday) which should give Brexiteers the willies.

 

In early 2014, the Swiss held a referendum on restricting freedom of movement. Swiss kippers won - in a referendum which, unlike the UK one, was binding. The result mandated the parliament to negotiate a way out of freedom of movement in two years. That deadline expires in February, but Swiss parliamentarians are ready to throw in the towel now.

 

Having being warned, like us, that they'd lose their single market access status, they're about to vote to approve a deal that includes an 'emergency brake' - a brake that can only be triggered with the EU's consent.

 

As you very well know, I'm a Conservative and I'm afraid that I don't have a Tw*tter account and can't even be bothered to find out how it works. It seems pretty vacuous to me.

 

Why should Brexiteers worry about Switzerland's dealings with the EU? We aren't remotely like Switzerland. Even Timmy has finally recognised that we will almost certainly not be going down the Switzerland or Norway route in our future trading arrangements with the EU.

[Verbal]

But we're Great Britain, and we're special. We can negotiate with anybody and will always get exactly what we want. I know it's true, a politician promised me.

 

And here's a politician doing exactly that. Why if it isn't that super-scientist Carswell:

 

'Leave do have a plan. We will have unrestricted access to the single market but not bound by its rules'

 

As you very well know, I'm a Conservative and I'm afraid that I don't have a Tw*tter account and can't even be bothered to find out how it works. It seems pretty vacuous to me.

 

Why should Brexiteers worry about Switzerland's dealings with the EU? We aren't remotely like Switzerland. Even Timmy has finally recognised that we will almost certainly not be going down the Switzerland or Norway route in our future trading arrangements with the EU.

 

Does your schnozzle grow with each denial?

 

Anyway, as always you haven't comprehended the point. (Maybe you should declare yourself a scientist like your MP). The Swiss were mandated - legally required, unlike us - to stop free movement. They appear to have failed (the vote is today) because (a) the EU wasn't a push over, contras dimwits like Carswell; and (b) because the Swiss parliamentarians knew they couldn't crash the economy so needed their existing single market access rights.

 

If you think this has no bearing on what will happen in the Brexit negotiations with the EU - and the past blithering about how we hold all the cards suggests you do - good luck with that.

[moonraker]

I'm afraid that I don't have a Tw*tter account and can't even be bothered to find out how it works. It seems pretty vacuous to me.

.

 

Further evidence if any evidence were needed that you like so many Brexiters don’t like the modern world, although I do have a Twitter account it is dormant I just haven’t got engaged with it, but to dismiss it as vacuous is in itself vacuous.

In other news major US Banks and Financial institutions reiterate that Brexit will have a damaging impact on London as financial centre as they judge the EU will not allow the current pass-porting to continue, the continued wishful thinking of a large proportion of Brexiters that the EU will give the UK everything it wants s just that, wishful thinking.