Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[badgerx16]

Do you mean Bercow, the collaborator?

You do love your hyperbole.

[Wes Tender]

https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/10/a-modest-proposal-lets-put-bercow-in-charge-and-scrap-democracy-altogether.html

[Wes Tender]

Good to see you’re still being whipped up into unthinking hysteria Les. So what? These types of meetings are perfectly normal and commonplace. The swivel-eyed commentary of secret plotting and negotiations has been comedy gold.

 

You patronising stuck up snob.

[badgerx16]

https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/10/a-modest-proposal-lets-put-bercow-in-charge-and-scrap-democracy-altogether.html

 

Because the Speaker won't allow this shambles of a minority Government to circumvent Parliament and avoid scrutiny, he gets demonised in the pro-Brexit press.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Good to see you’re still being whipped up into unthinking hysteria Les. So what? These types of meetings are perfectly normal and commonplace. The swivel-eyed commentary of secret plotting and negotiations has been comedy gold.

 

I thought Les had left us? He threw a hissy fit and then went off in a mood?

[shurlock]

I thought Les had left us? He threw a hissy fit and then went off in a mood?

 

I like to think we’re performing a public service, providing a safety-valve of sorts. You dread to think what Les would be up to if he didn’t have an opportunity to vent on here.

[benjii]

It's now abundantly clear that no exit deal can be obtained which will be approved by the British parliament.

 

The solution is now quite obvious:

 

A final referendum with two choices:

 

- no deal leave

- remain

 

which are the only two realistic options.

 

And if no deal wins then:

 

a) we've got a nation full of retards

b) that's the problem with letting any Wayne, Ron and Doris have the vote.

[shurlock]

It's now abundantly clear that no exit deal can be obtained which will be approved by the British parliament.

 

The solution is now quite obvious:

 

A final referendum with two choices:

 

- no deal leave

- remain

 

which are the only two realistic options.

 

And if no deal wins then:

 

a) we've got a nation full of retards

b) that's the problem with letting any Wayne, Ron and Doris have the vote.

 

NI-only backstop (CU and SM regulatory alignment) subject to ongoing consent from the two communities in NI would be my solution. Basically the EU's original proposal but with a new condition of consent.

[shurlock]

Sounds like something's brewing - a possible way out? Or another false dawn?

Edited 10 October, 2019 by shurlock

[Unbelievable Jeff]

NI-only backstop (CU and SM regulatory alignment) subject to ongoing consent from the two communities in NI would be my solution. Basically the EU's original proposal but with a new condition of consent.

 

Would the decision to continue with the backstop be unilateral? I think we'll end up seeing reunionisation of NI if we go this way, but the union will break anyway if we leave.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Sounds like something's brewing - a possible way out? Or another false dawn?

 

It seems to me now that BoJo's only chance to make that 31st date is to come up with a proper deal (although to get a treaty written, signed and approved by all parties seem a little unlikely).

 

I wonder if he'll also ask for an extension with the reason being a deal is very close, and whether that will please his followers.

 

If he manages to sort a deal, then I don't think many of us will be churlish enough to say that his Premiership has started anything but very successfully.

[CB Fry]

Sounds like something's brewing - a possible way out? Or another false dawn?

A bit of lipstick on May's pig, and the ERG will gobble it up a) because its Boris and b) they know the whole could slip away. And also they never gave two shi ny sh its about Ireland in the first place.

 

The Brexiteers are so desperate for their "I'm having my cold glass of champagne" moment and to stop any Remainer gloating that they will back anything that feels like a win. And celebrate it like a win.

 

If Boris comes back with NI in the Customs Union (the EU suggestion in the first place) he will then have to dare Peter Bone and Marc Francois and that Welsh one to vote it through. Those swivels can't keep blaming Parliament, claiming the 17m for themselves and then still refuse to vote for a deal.

 

Maybe, just maybe, it ws the ERG that Boris and Cummings were playing all along? After all, Cummings can't stand the lot of them. Boris has marched them all to the top of the hill. What now, lads?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

A bit of lipstick on May's pig, and the ERG will gobble it up a) because its Boris and b) they know the whole could slip away. And also they never gave two shi ny sh its about Ireland in the first place.

 

The Brexiteers are so desperate for their "I'm having my cold glass of champagne" moment and to stop any Remainer gloating that they will back anything that feels like a win. And celebrate it like a win.

 

If Boris comes back with NI in the Customs Union (the EU suggestion in the first place) he will then have to dare Peter Bone and Marc Francois and that Welsh one to vote it through. Those swivels can't keep blaming Parliament, claiming the 17m for themselves and then still refuse to vote for a deal.

 

Maybe, just maybe, it ws the ERG that Boris and Cummings were playing all along? After all, Cummings can't stand the lot of them. Boris has marched them all to the top of the hill. What now, lads?

 

It's an interesting paradigm - even on this own thread with GM, LD and Les wanting to leave with No Deal. They will no doubt see this as a win for Boris and the far right, whereas the win is for the moderates who just wanted a sensible deal.

[rallyboy]

If form is anything to go by, Boris will have a proposal that has already been dismissed by the EU and requires little compromise by us.

So I don't believe the hype, I don't reckon he's made progress, I suspect he's just put another spin distraction in place to blame others when he puts hedge funds before voters.

[norwaysaint]

The Brexiteers are so desperate for their "I'm having my cold glass of champagne" moment

 

No more of that European rubbish being forced on us after Brexit. Good honest British sparkling wine will be all we need.

[OldNick]

If form is anything to go by, Boris will have a proposal that has already been dismissed by the EU and requires little compromise by us.

So I don't believe the hype, I don't reckon he's made progress, I suspect he's just put another spin distraction in place to blame others when he puts hedge funds before voters.

Hedge funds before voters lol. There are bets on both sides, and there were bets on the result originally as well. Rallyboy dont believe all the hype from either side. It is social media being worked to its fullest to move opinion one way or other depending whose side you are on.

I have MSN as a news feed on my computer and they have a great sway as it is in front of the user all the time and the editors can pick what they like.

[Johnny Bognor]

No more of that European rubbish being forced on us after Brexit. Good honest British sparkling wine will be all we need.

 

And reduce our global carbon footprint. Brexit to save the world!!!!

[shurlock]

A bit of lipstick on May's pig, and the ERG will gobble it up a) because its Boris and b) they know the whole could slip away. And also they never gave two shi ny sh its about Ireland in the first place.

 

The Brexiteers are so desperate for their "I'm having my cold glass of champagne" moment and to stop any Remainer gloating that they will back anything that feels like a win. And celebrate it like a win.

 

If Boris comes back with NI in the Customs Union (the EU suggestion in the first place) he will then have to dare Peter Bone and Marc Francois and that Welsh one to vote it through. Those swivels can't keep blaming Parliament, claiming the 17m for themselves and then still refuse to vote for a deal.

 

Maybe, just maybe, it ws the ERG that Boris and Cummings were playing all along? After all, Cummings can't stand the lot of them. Boris has marched them all to the top of the hill. What now, lads?

 

True -and if reports are to believed, the proposals are closer to the EU’s original plan for a NI-only backstop (with a bit of smoke and mirrors around customs).

 

The big unknown, however, is not duffers like Mark Francois and Peter Bone but voters in a now imminent GE. Any perceived compromise will be music to Farage’s ears who, unlike elected MPs, has never had to take a shred of political responsibility for his actions. If he decides that the deal is a betrayal (and the one trick pony is incapable of campaigning in any other way), he could make life very difficult for the Conservative party. That probably holds even if in his heart of hearts he couldn’t care less about NI (DUP).

 

In one sense, Johnson and Cummings will only be to blame if this happens as they have been instrumental in whipping up emotions and talking up a clean or no deal Brexit as credible policy. A few venal swivels on the back benches may be easy to control; a polarised, unaccountable and frankly ignorant electorate may be much harder.

Edited 11 October, 2019 by shurlock

[Guided Missile]

As I said, Boris and Co are playing a blinder. Dominic Cummings to-do list is:

1. Get rid of the traitors in the party
   
2. Replace sheep in wolves clothing with loyal Conservatives
   
3. Unify the party
   
4. Call an election
   
5. Message: The People vs Parliament
   
6. Arrange a deal with Nigel
   
7. Taunt a divided Marxist dominated Labour, joke of a party during the run up
   
8. Win a substantial majority
   
9. Go to the EU with a freedom charter
   
10. Watch Corbyn, Labour and the EU project sink without a trace
    

Winter is Coming

 

A slight correction:

1. Get rid of the traitors in the party
   
2. Replace sheep in wolves clothing with loyal Conservatives
   
3. Unify the party
   
4. Go to the EU with a freedom charter
   
5. Taunt a divided Marxist dominated Labour, joke of a party during the run up
   
6. Call an election
   
7. Message: The People vs Parliament
   
8. Arrange a deal with Nigel
   
9. Win a substantial majority
   
10. Watch Corbyn, Labour and the EU project sink without a trace
    

Like I said, playing a blinder.

 

....meanwhile

[shurlock]

I don’t know who’s got more cognitive dissonance: guided missile or that dopey woman in the QT audience who’s doing the rounds. Face it pal, you’ve got it wrong again

Edited 11 October, 2019 by shurlock

[shurlock]

GM's self-understanding and view of the world.

 

 

The world as it actually exists

 

Edited 11 October, 2019 by shurlock

[shurlock]

According to one of the more ITK and clued in commentators

 

[badgerx16]

....meanwhile

So the pound is at about 1.14 to the Euro, it was over 1.17 in May. Similarly, it was over 1.3 against the $US in May.

[Tamesaint]

So the pound is at about 1.14 to the Euro, it was over 1.17 in May. Similarly, it was over 1.3 against the $US in May.

 

It is quite pathetic really.

 

For a supposedly astute businessman Guided Missile always displays a complete incomprehension concerning exchange rates. It is probably a good thing for his business that the EU consider his products to be poisonous and don't let him sell them in Euro land.

[CB Fry]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/13/boris-johnson-to-press-eu-leaders-over-brexit-deal-report?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tapatalk_Pro

 

 

Guided Missile seems to have missed off

 

 

2. Boris cra ps his pants and crawls back to EU begging for their help to get him out of this mess

 

 

from his list.

[shurlock]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/13/boris-johnson-to-press-eu-leaders-over-brexit-deal-report?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tapatalk_Pro

 

 

Guided Missile seems to have missed off

 

 

2. Boris cra ps his pants and crawls back to EU begging for their help to get him out of this mess

 

 

from his list.

 

To be fair, little GM went off the rails when he started posting godfather and rocky memes in homage to JRM was going to constitutionally checkmate the opposition into accepting an election on the government’s terms. Instead the opposition has refused the bait and been holding the government’s feet to the fire - hopefully until there’s nothing left but charred stumps. #frit

 

Fast forward a month or so and JRM is now pleading with leave voters that Boris won’t concede too much - other than a de facto NI-only backstop similar to the EU’s first preference two years ago; a nice transitional period during which the UK is subject to the ECJ with no say in policy decisions; a divorce bill paid in full; and vague, unenforceable gestures to a future FTA that the EU will condition on the UK accepting a level playing field around taxation, competition, state aid, labour and environmental rules, circumscribing the UK’s regulatory autonomy.

 

With chumps like GM, Les, LD, Nolan (and others) on board, no wonder Johnson and co. think they can pull the wool over leavers eyes

Edited 13 October, 2019 by shurlock

[Guided Missile]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/13/boris-johnson-to-press-eu-leaders-over-brexit-deal-report?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tapatalk_Pro

 

 

Guided Missile seems to have missed off

 

 

2. Boris cra ps his pants and crawls back to EU begging for their help to get him out of this mess

 

 

from his list.

I also "missed off"

3. Magic Grandpa cra ps his pants about the prospect of a GE and crawls back to his allotment.

[whelk]

Patel on Andrew Marr. Beggars belief this idiot has made it to Home Secretary. Fills every sentence with ‘obviously’ and ‘frankly’ and of course double figure use of ‘get Brexit done’.

 

All tat is wrong with politicians

[CB Fry]

I also "missed off"

3. Magic Grandpa cra ps his pants about the prospect of a GE and crawls back to his allotment.

You're aiming anti-Corbyn taunts at me now? You're a special kind of genius.

[badgerx16]

Patel on Andrew Marr. Beggars belief this idiot has made it to Home Secretary. Fills every sentence with ‘obviously’ and ‘frankly’ and of course double figure use of ‘get Brexit done’.

 

All that is wrong with politicians

They are not appointed on ability, purely on how vociferously they can keep repeating "17.4 million" and "get Brexit done".

[badgerx16]

You're aiming anti-Corbyn taunts at me now? You're a special kind of genius.

He such a special form of genius that he is off the scale.

[Guided Missile]

You're aiming anti-Corbyn taunts at me now? You're a special kind of genius.

First time we've agreed on a point. I am a special kind of genius, the same kind that Dominic Cummings is.

 

All will become apparent over the next few days...

[badgerx16]

First time we've agreed on a point. I am a special kind of genius, the same kind that Dominic Cummings is.

How many more times will this get quoted ?

 

I am a moron, but that is due to 7 years attending King Edward VI school.

[OldNick]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/13/boris-johnson-to-press-eu-leaders-over-brexit-deal-report?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tapatalk_Pro

 

 

Guided Missile seems to have missed off

 

 

2. Boris cra ps his pants and crawls back to EU begging for their help to get him out of this mess

 

 

from his list.

The Guardian ffs they are really impartial.

 

If as stated the negotiations have now gone into a tunnel then all is conjecture as any negotiation is totally secretive and only very trusted people know what’s going on.

The Guradian is desperate for the talks/Boris to fail as it suits their political agenda.I don’t like Boris but really want us to get a deal and then sort out everything once it’s done, so we can move on.

[shurlock]

The Guardian ffs they are really impartial.

 

If as stated the negotiations have now gone into a tunnel then all is conjecture as any negotiation is totally secretive and only very trusted people know what’s going on.

The Guradian is desperate for the talks/Boris to fail as it suits their political agenda.I don’t like Boris but really want us to get a deal and then sort out everything once it’s done, so we can move on.

 

What don’t you understand when told that Brexit won’t be done and we won’t be able to move on. They’re simply negotiating the UK’s terms of withdrawal not what replaces EU membership as a basis for future trade.

[shurlock]

You're aiming anti-Corbyn taunts at me now? You're a special kind of genius.

 

A tribute to John courtesy of Chris Morris.

 

Edited 13 October, 2019 by shurlock

[CB Fry]

The Guardian ffs they are really impartial.

 

If as stated the negotiations have now gone into a tunnel then all is conjecture as any negotiation is totally secretive and only very trusted people know what’s going on.

The Guradian is desperate for the talks/Boris to fail as it suits their political agenda.I don’t like Boris but really want us to get a deal and then sort out everything once it’s done, so we can move on.

 

Well, in this case all The Guardian have done is write up Tim Shipman's report from today's Sunday Times.

 

Shipman has excellent contacts in the Tory party and in government as illustrated by his two outstanding books on the political carnage of of 2016 and 2017. And if you follow him on Twitter you'd know that he is pretty bloody leave-y. So yeah, nice one, he's not impartial, well spotted. Just the exact opposite of the frigging Guardian.

 

Shurlock has already dealt with your laughable "we can move on" bollo cks so I wont bother.

Edited 13 October, 2019 by CB Fry

[Guided Missile]

Winners medals soon to be awarded on October 31st. Remainer meltdown already started...

 

 

Edited 13 October, 2019 by Guided Missile

[Weston Super Saint]

Winners medals soon to be awarded on October 31st. Remainer meltdown already started...

 

 

 

Is that one of Jeff's 'destitute' kids?

[OldNick]

What don’t you understand when told that Brexit won’t be done and we won’t be able to move on. They’re simply negotiating the UK’s terms of withdrawal not what replaces EU membership as a basis for future trade.

I do understand that this is only the start before the trade agreement is negotiated. What you dont seem to understand is that the nation is sick of all the Brexit stuff on both sides and once the agreement in principle is agreed then we all can give a sigh of relief and move on, buying selling, trading etc etc. When the EU were making trade deals with other nations the population took no notice and carried on with their lives. Once we get over this hurdle the trade deal will be put on the back burner and will not make the news unless the Guardian/mail/other etc want to torpedo everything for their own wishes.

We cannot stay in limbo much longer as the economy is on the slide, not due to Brexit per say but the political situation where nobody wants the uncertainty of what is happening.

[badgerx16]

I give Deutsche Bank about another 6 months before it all goes t!ts up and wipes the smirk off Frau Merkels face and bankrupts the banks in Spain, Italy, Portugal and Greece, while our banks watch in amusement. ...

@ GM, 27 June 2016

[norwaysaint]

I do understand that this is only the start before the trade agreement is negotiated. What you dont seem to understand is that the nation is sick of all the Brexit stuff on both sides and once the agreement in principle is agreed then we all can give a sigh of relief and move on, buying selling, trading etc etc. When the EU were making trade deals with other nations the population took no notice and carried on with their lives. Once we get over this hurdle the trade deal will be put on the back burner and will not make the news unless the Guardian/mail/other etc want to torpedo everything for their own wishes.

We cannot stay in limbo much longer as the economy is on the slide, not due to Brexit per say but the political situation where nobody wants the uncertainty of what is happening.

So you believe they should just have accepted May's deal when it was offered and just got it done?

 

We know that the EU would have accepted too and it would have gone through quickly.

[doddisalegend]

I do understand that this is only the start before the trade agreement is negotiated. What you dont seem to understand is that the nation is sick of all the Brexit stuff on both sides and once the agreement in principle is agreed then we all can give a sigh of relief and move on, buying selling, trading etc etc. When the EU were making trade deals with other nations the population took no notice and carried on with their lives. Once we get over this hurdle the trade deal will be put on the back burner and will not make the news unless the Guardian/mail/other etc want to torpedo everything for their own wishes.

We cannot stay in limbo much longer as the economy is on the slide, not due to Brexit per say but the political situation where nobody wants the uncertainty of what is happening.

Is the nation sick of brexit? That seems to be the view mostly put forward by leave politicians as a reason we should just go "no deal".

 

Personally I'm not of the view we should just get out, and hang the consequences, just becuase people are getting bored of it.

 

Surely no one thought leaving the EU was going to be quick and easy...

 

 

 

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[rallyboy]

We had a vote and it was agreed that we'd all go skydiving.

We postponed when the parachutes weren't ready, but enough is enough.

They still haven't arrived and people are getting restless, speed is now the priority.

We voted for skydiving so everyone should just jump without the parachutes and get it done.

[norwaysaint]

We had a vote and it was agreed that we'd all go skydiving.

We postponed when the parachutes weren't ready, but enough is enough.

They still haven't arrived and people are getting restless, speed is now the priority.

We voted for skydiving so everyone should just jump without the parachutes and get it done.

 

All of this panic mongering and talk of a "hard" landing is just project fear. We'll pull together, British people got injured in the war and we coped. I'm just glad everyone voted against the parachutes that we were offered. They were definitely the wrong colour. We definitely either go with the new plan to use umbrellas and handkerchiefs or we use nothing.

[Manuel]

Maybe we'll land on a big bouncy castle.

[shurlock]

I do understand that this is only the start before the trade agreement is negotiated. What you dont seem to understand is that the nation is sick of all the Brexit stuff on both sides and once the agreement in principle is agreed then we all can give a sigh of relief and move on, buying selling, trading etc etc. When the EU were making trade deals with other nations the population took no notice and carried on with their lives. Once we get over this hurdle the trade deal will be put on the back burner and will not make the news unless the Guardian/mail/other etc want to torpedo everything for their own wishes.

We cannot stay in limbo much longer as the economy is on the slide, not due to Brexit per say but the political situation where nobody wants the uncertainty of what is happening.

 

Fair play for packing so much confused thinking into one paragraph.

 

Very little to nothing is agreed in principle. The withdrawal agreement will buy a temporary reprieve till the end of 2020 thanks to transitional arrangements but we will again face the damaging prospect of no deal if the UK and EU do not sign a FTA in that time (never mind the constitutional time bombs the WA sets off in NI and Scotland). The gap in negotiating positions is massive: the EU will make any deal conditional on the UK’s acceptance of competition, state aid, taxation, labour and environmental rules that ensure a level playing field which is utterly anathema to the current government.

 

Your observation that when the EU were making trade deals with other nations the population took no notice is equally confused. Those other countries were working towards an agreement where there wasn’t one before which is a positive move, reducing trade frictions and enabling mutually beneficial cooperation. The UK is in a fundamentally different position - it is attempting to unwind 40 years of deep economic integration which will only make trade and cooperation more difficult - hence why businesses are already deeply concerned about Johnson’s objectives for the next phase of negotiations.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/a29b405e-ec41-11e9-a240-3b065ef5fc55

 

Finally please put to bed the dopey myth that it’s uncertainty rather than Brexit that’s harming the economy. Uncertainty doesn’t help but it’s a second order issue. Why do you think the pound jumped when the Benn Act was passed or the Supreme Court deemed the prorogation of parliament illegal. Both these events substantially increased uncertainty but the markets responded favourably to them since they made a hard Brexit less likely: it doesn’t take a genius to work out what the markets perceive the real danger to be...

[doddisalegend]

All of this panic mongering and talk of a "hard" landing is just project fear. We'll pull together, British people got injured in the war and we coped. I'm just glad everyone voted against the parachutes that we were offered. They were definitely the wrong colour. We definitely either go with the new plan to use umbrellas and handkerchiefs or we use nothing.

My great, great grandaddy didn't need a parachute, when he jumped out of a spitfire, to fight the krauts at the battle of Trafalgarloo, in some war we won against the frogs, wearing nothing but a union jack and carrying a picture of queen Victoria gawd bless her.

 

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[badgerx16]

We definitely either go with the new plan to use umbrellas and handkerchiefs or we use nothing.

Or stay on the plane.

[norwaysaint]

Or stay on the plane.

Don't be ridiculous. Jump means jump.