Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[hypochondriac]

It's not Brexit, because it's an interim state before Brexit happens and we go out on our own.

 

It's amazing how many of you Brexiteers don't understand what the withdrawal agreement is and what it is for.

I know perfectly well what it is and the clear flaws in the agreement which I'm sure you would agree with do you not? I'd also rather you didn't lump me in with some nebulous group called brexiteers. I'm my own person and I agree with some things said by those who voted remain and other things with people who voted for brexit but I'm not defined by one vote. Edited 13 September, 2019 by hypochondriac

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I know perfectly well what it is and the clear flaws in the agreement which I'm sure you would agree with do you not? I'd also rather you didn't lump me in with some nebulous group called brexiteers. I'm my own person and I agree with some things said by those who voted remain and other things with people who voted for brexit but I'm not defined by one vote.

 

Your post points to not understanding it, so maybe think before you reply or you'll end up getting lumped into the same bracket as GM and Les.

 

The flaw is the backstop, but that's better than leaving with No deal and contravening the GFA. I'm sure you'd agree with that as well?

[Weston Super Saint]

Stop comparing an election and this referendum - there is no similarity apart from the fact that the nation voted. You could also try to compare it to Strictly if you like - it would make as much sense.

 

If there was a criminal or civil case, where one or both sides were found to have presented false evidence, there would be a re-trial, as that is the only fair way to deal with it. The same happens if new evidence appears.

 

This is how it should be dealt with.

 

Head's gone - absolute mare, again!

[hypochondriac]

Your post points to not understanding it, so maybe think before you reply or you'll end up getting lumped into the same bracket as GM and Les.

 

The flaw is the backstop, but that's better than leaving with No deal and contravening the GFA. I'm sure you'd agree with that as well?

I know you've already given your slightly trolling verdict on everyone who voted to leave but if your going to have a discussion in bad faith then is it really worth continuing?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I know you've already given your slightly trolling verdict on everyone who voted to leave but if your going to have a discussion in bad faith then is it really worth continuing?

 

Where was my discussion in bad faith? I am having a genuine discussion with you here. This has genuinely been misunderstood by so many Brexiteers on here.

 

What do you reckon about the question I posed?

[scally]

Your post points to not understanding it, so maybe think before you reply or you'll end up getting lumped into the same bracket as GM and Les.

 

The flaw is the backstop, but that's better than leaving with No deal and contravening the GFA. I'm sure you'd agree with that as well?

 

May was offered a free trade deal but for some reason known only to herself and her fellow remainers rejected it. Why don't we go back to that?

[hypochondriac]

Where was my discussion in bad faith? I am having a genuine discussion with you here. This has genuinely been misunderstood by so many Brexiteers on here.

 

What do you reckon about the question I posed?

 

The point about whether it's a brexit deal or a brexit transition deal is really semantics in the context of what I was talking about. It was clearly unacceptable and raises questions about the motives of the people who negotiated it.

 

 

It's certainly debatable whether no deal violates the GFA, I note yesterday that the court case arguing that was dismissed in Northern Ireland.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

May was offered a free trade deal but for some reason known only to herself and her fellow remainers rejected it. Why don't we go back to that?

 

As in the WA? It looks like we will go back to that.

Edited 13 September, 2019 by Unbelievable Jeff

[Unbelievable Jeff]

The point about whether it's a brexit deal or a brexit transition deal is really semantics in the context of what I was talking about. It was clearly unacceptable and raises questions about the motives of the people who negotiated it.

 

 

It's certainly debatable whether no deal violates the GFA, I note yesterday that the court case arguing that was dismissed in Northern Ireland.

 

It's really not semantics though, and that's the issue. Everyone goes on about it not being Brexit, but it was never meant to be Brexit. It was an interim period that allowed us to negotiate a deal whilst continuing to trade like normal with our partners, which is obviously a sensible option.

 

If it violates the GFA, is it better or worse than the backstop?

[hypochondriac]

It's really not semantics though, and that's the issue. Everyone goes on about it not being Brexit, but it was never meant to be Brexit. It was an interim period that allowed us to negotiate a deal whilst continuing to trade like normal with our partners, which is obviously a sensible option.

 

If it violates the GFA, is it better or worse than the backstop?

The withdrawal agreement is unacceptable because it locks us into something potentially forever and we have no way of leaving. My point was that this is unacceptable for a sovereign nation to accept so it is semantics what you choose to call it.

 

I'm not arguing hypotheticals.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

The withdrawal agreement is unacceptable because it locks us into something potentially forever and we have no way of leaving. My point was that this is unacceptable for a sovereign nation to accept so it is semantics what you choose to call it.

 

I'm not arguing hypotheticals.

 

Of course you're arguing hypotheticals, because it's hypothetical that we'd be locked into the WA forever (which we obviously wouldn't be as technology would come up with a solution far quicker than forever).

 

It's an easy question, GFA or Backstop? The main train of thought is that it does, so if it does, which would you prefer? Or have you got an alternative?

 

It seems that, after all, you're very much like the rest of the Brexiteers. You're happy to criticise the backstop, but have no credible solution to it.

[scally]

https://brexitcentral.com/no-deal-is-the-safest-option-given-the-uks-increasingly-unsustainable-trade-relationship-with-the-eu/

 

Pick the bones of this one boys

[Jonnyboy]

OK, but do you believe that these products will not arrive?

 

Depends. Are they being delivered by Hurricane or Lancaster?

[badgerx16]

https://brexitcentral.com/no-deal-is-the-safest-option-given-the-uks-increasingly-unsustainable-trade-relationship-with-the-eu/

 

Pick the bones of this one boys

A pro hard-Brexit website supporting the 'nuclear' option. Quelle Surpise !

[Unbelievable Jeff]

https://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-second-brexit-vote-would-pull-boris-johnson-out-of-the-quagmire-11809091

 

Now that is interesting - WA or revoke Article 50. I'd be happy with that vote.

[Shroppie]

https://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-second-brexit-vote-would-pull-boris-johnson-out-of-the-quagmire-11809091

 

Now that is interesting - WA or revoke Article 50. I'd be happy with that vote.

I'd prefer to simply revoke Article 50, but this is otherwise the only way forward, in my opinion.

 

Unless we have an election and end up with a majority for leaving or remaining. I think the former is unlikely as there are do many factions wanting different versions of leave.

 

A confirmatory ballot would be fraught with the same problems of lies and manipulation that plagued the referendum, but assuming No Deal is off the table, it would hopefully marginalise Farage and the Brexit Party, who would be torn between supporting a deal and abstaining, maybe letting the revoke option through.

 

But I assume they'd just riot instead.

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Edited 14 September, 2019 by Shroppie

[badgerx16]

Depends. Are they being delivered by Hurricane or Lancaster?

As the Hurricane is a single seater there is not a lot of room for cargo, and although it has a large bomb bay there's only 1 flying Lanc in the UK. So much for contingency planning ;-)

[Mosin]

https://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-second-brexit-vote-would-pull-boris-johnson-out-of-the-quagmire-11809091ur

 

Now that is interesting - WA or revoke Article 50. I'd be happy with that vote.

 

But they would just be voted bck in, why do you think none want a Ge till after we have left / revoke a50? Dont matter how many polls or opinions or any else.you try to claim will change the result Normal lower class people that struggle.day in and out want out and the same class is the majority of the population. You honestly think people love earning min wage/ just above it...... Get real and stop being so smug, only people with money give a sh!t about leaving with a deal, your average tom **** n harry want out cause it wont matter to them at all, you see people who can afford time off work to protest are bigger on the remain side as those that want to leave these are all at work trying to earn enough to Pay bills and feel the kids....

[Mosin]

But they would just be voted bck in, why do you think none want a Ge till after we have left / revoke a50? Dont matter how many polls or opinions or any else.you try to claim will change the result Normal lower class people that struggle.day in and out want out and the same class is the majority of the population. You honestly think people love earning min wage/ just above it...... Get real and stop being so smug, only people with money give a sh!t about leaving with a deal, your average tom **** n harry want out cause it wont matter to them at all, you see people who can afford time off work to protest are bigger on the remain side as those that want to leave these are all at work trying to earn enough to Pay bills and feel the kids....

 

Feed the kids....

[norwaysaint]

But they would just be voted bck in, why do you think none want a Ge till after we have left / revoke a50? Dont matter how many polls or opinions or any else.you try to claim will change the result Normal lower class people that struggle.day in and out want out and the same class is the majority of the population. You honestly think people love earning min wage/ just above it...... Get real and stop being so smug, only people with money give a sh!t about leaving with a deal, your average tom **** n harry want out cause it wont matter to them at all, you see people who can afford time off work to protest are bigger on the remain side as those that want to leave these are all at work trying to earn enough to Pay bills and feel the kids....

Actually, unless I've been misreading the information, that group of people will in fact be hurt the most by leaving with no deal. The fact that they've been misled about that is pretty clear to see, including in your comment there. That group would be better off if the original withdrawal agreement went through though, but Boris was one of many who stopped brexit happening on time by blocking the agreement. Because apparently "brexit means brexit" isn't always as straight forward as that, including for the leave supporters.

[OldNick]

Depends. Are they being delivered by Hurricane or Lancaster?

Well Jeremy only will have to hear the engines and he will throw his arms up in surrender

[buctootim]

Feed the kids....

 

before or after?

[norwaysaint]

Well Jeremy only will have to hear the engines and he will throw his arms up in surrender

I'm no Corbyn fan, but do you have some image of Boris Johnson as some brave hero, fighting fearlessly for the country? Because I don't get the impression that's really what he's about. Remember this is the guy that closed parliament rather than stand up and face his opposition. It's not a great sign of courage...

[Jonnyboy]

Well Jeremy only will have to hear the engines and he will throw his arms up in surrender

 

Like he did against the two Prime Ministers he's already seen off? (Not to mention 90% of the mainstream media and all the Bairite MPs).

[Weston Super Saint]

Like he did against the two Prime Ministers he's already seen off? (Not to mention 90% of the mainstream media and all the Bairite MPs).

 

Surely the measure of whether or not an 'opposition leader' has 'seen off' a sitting 'Prime Minister' is if they beat them in a General Election?

 

He's not covered himself in glory in the last two of those....

[Mosin]

Actually, unless I've been misreading the information, that group of people will in fact be hurt the most by leaving with no deal. The fact that they've been misled about that is pretty clear to see, including in your comment there. That group would be better off if the original withdrawal agreement went through though, but Boris was one of many who stopped brexit happening on time by blocking the agreement. Because apparently "brexit means brexit" isn't always as straight forward as that, including for the leave supporters.

 

In wat way will the poor be worse? Are you poor living in the UK? On min wage Job? With kids? So tell me how it will affect you more than say the doctors next door?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

In wat way will the poor be worse? Are you poor living in the UK? On min wage Job? With kids? So tell me how it will affect you more than say the doctors next door?

 

When a country is in recession and jobs go, who do you think loses out? Are you THAT poor at economics that you don't understand the absolute basics of supply and demand?

[Mosin]

When a country is in recession and jobs go, who do you think loses out? Are you THAT poor at economics that you don't understand the absolute basics of supply and demand?

 

I said min wage Job, so your cleaners at the hospital and doctors.and schools, porters basic staff at mc d's the shelf stackers at tesco, the warehouse staff, unless you are going to.tell me walmart and co are going to go bank rupt cause the UK left the EU, normal basic jobs wont vanish cause we left the EU, bins will still need to be emptyed, warehouses wont just sack every one cause the UK only went anld ran out of french wine and tomatoes lol.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I said min wage Job, so your cleaners at the hospital and doctors.and schools, porters basic staff at mc d's the shelf stackers at tesco, the warehouse staff, unless you are going to.tell me walmart and co are going to go bank rupt cause the UK left the EU, normal basic jobs wont vanish cause we left the EU, bins will still need to be emptyed, warehouses wont just sack every one cause the UK only went anld ran out of french wine and tomatoes lol.

 

I don't know what that said, but I'll try to interpret.

 

You're saying that when a country comes upon hard times, shops and businesses don't go bust, downsize, shut stores, etc? Is that genuinely what you're saying?

[shurlock]

I don't know what that said, but I'll try to interpret.

 

You're saying that when a country comes upon hard times, shops and businesses don't go bust, downsize, shut stores, etc? Is that genuinely what you're saying?

 

No he’s saying JWP is better than Nathan Redmond.

 

It’s widely agreed that the employment prospects of the low-skilled suffer the most during economic recessions or slowdowns.

[Batman]

Surely the measure of whether or not an 'opposition leader' has 'seen off' a sitting 'Prime Minister' is if they beat them in a General Election?

 

He's not covered himself in glory in the last two of those....

 

Labour lost the 2010 General Election.

Labour lost the 2015 General Election.

Labour lost the 2017 General Election

Labour lost the 2014 European Elections.

Labour lost the 2019 European Elections.

 

Weirdly, Labour is now running away from holding an election.

 

Can't think why.

[Mosin]

I don't know what that said, but I'll try to interpret.

 

You're saying that when a country comes upon hard times, shops and businesses don't go bust, downsize, shut stores, etc? Is that genuinely what you're saying?

 

So you really are telling me tesco, aldi ( who are currency invest g millions on new stores even though we will likely leave the EU) are going to go bust cause they take an extra few days to deliver french wine and cheese? Mcd's too even though 90 % of the menu is from Uk produce Or kfc for recently changing to Uk supplyers ahead of brexit weather it goes throw or not?only companys who fail getting prepared for brexit will fall. Those that dont will contribute to flurish and new ones will replace the old like always.

[Weston Super Saint]

I don't know what that said, but I'll try to interpret.

 

You're saying that when a country comes upon hard times, shops and businesses don't go bust, downsize, shut stores, etc? Is that genuinely what you're saying?

 

I'm sure the Germans will tell us soon enough....

[Unbelievable Jeff]

So you really are telling me tesco, aldi ( who are currency invest g millions on new stores even though we will likely leave the EU) are going to go bust cause they take an extra few days to deliver french wine and cheese? Mcd's too even though 90 % of the menu is from Uk produce Or kfc for recently changing to Uk supplyers ahead of brexit weather it goes throw or not?only companys who fail getting prepared for brexit will fall. Those that dont will contribute to flurish and new ones will replace the old like always.

 

I'm not saying jobs are going to be lost because of delays to imports (although a few might)? I'm saying jobs are going to be lost because the economy will falter and people will be buying less.

 

And of course Aldi are investing, as it's cheap to invest in the UK from overseas (due to the plunge in the pound) and once we leave the EU people will have less money and will need to shop in cheaper stores. It's why Primark have spent the last 3 years investing in their stores - it's to take advantage of the fact that everyone's going to have less money.

[Shroppie]

Johnson is sounding more and more desperate. He's openly accepting that his reason for clinging to leaving on Oct 31st is nothing to do with it being the best thing for Britain. It's about saving the Conservative Party (and, of course, himself) and stopping Corbyn winning an election.

 

He's gambling everything on either miraculously getting a deal (that I don't really think he wants as it won't satisfy the extreme wing of his party or win over the Farage lot) or breaking the law, which he seems to think he can do with impunity, but that will cause a huge war in the courts and parliament.

 

And throw in Cameron carefully choosing his moment to confirm that Johnson is an out and out liar who only chose Leave over Remain ( which he knew was the right option) as he thought it would be better for his career.

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[Weston Super Saint]

 

And throw in Cameron carefully choosing his moment to confirm that Johnson is an out and out liar who only chose Leave over Remain ( which he knew was the right option) as he thought it would be better for his career.

 

 

Unlike May who switched who voted to remain but then promised to deliver Brexit as she thought it would be better for her career!

 

Odd that Cameron should be shouting about the lies that were told during the leave campaign whilst conveniently airbrushing from history his own whoppers!

[aintforever]

Unlike May who switched who voted to remain but then promised to deliver Brexit as she thought it would be better for her career!

 

Odd that Cameron should be shouting about the lies that were told during the leave campaign whilst conveniently airbrushing from history his own whoppers!

 

Doesn’t mean he’s not spot on about Boris.

[Weston Super Saint]

Doesn’t mean he’s not spot on about Boris.

 

I struggle to believe that anyone would be surprised by this! If there's one thing that our politicians have proved over the last 3 years it's that they are all self serving ****s with only their own best interests at heart!

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I struggle to believe that anyone would be surprised by this! If there's one thing that our politicians have proved over the last 3 years it's that they are all self serving ****s with only their own best interests at heart!

 

No, not all of them. Look at the 21 who were expelled from the Conservatives. That's against all of their best interests. If only the rest of the Tory party (and their supporters) had their morals, rather than the moralistic cesspit they display on a day to day basis.

[Batman]

So, libdems...

 

Does not like people having their say (unless the party agrees)

 

Does not respect the voice of the people from 2016

 

Does not intend to respect the vote of any future referendum (unless it goes their way)

 

Does not expect any defectors to them to be accountable to the people

 

Did not vote for a general election

 

However, does back being part of a new empire

 

 

Could you imagine this being the libdems not too many years ago?

[Shroppie]

So, libdems...

 

Does not like people having their say (unless the party agrees)

 

Does not respect the voice of the people from 2016

 

Does not intend to respect the vote of any future referendum (unless it goes their way)

 

Does not expect any defectors to them to be accountable to the people

 

Did not vote for a general election

 

However, does back being part of a new empire

 

 

Could you imagine this being the libdems not too many years ago?

 

But their policy is clear and unequivocal.

 

They recognise that the simplistic and corrupt referendum delivered a result that is not deliverable.

 

They are all for people having their say, either by voting LibDem in an election and knowing that's a vote for remain, or in a confirmatory vote.

 

Their policy will still be remain, whatever votes take place, because they believe that's the best result for Britain. Unlike the two largest parties who have every shade from no deal to remain in their ranks, and wooly policy. Johnson's hard line isn't representative of his party and he's only following it to try to win back votes from Brexit, save his party and himself. Remember, he was a remainer until he thought backing leave, although he didn't believe in it, would further his own career. No policy in the interests of the country there, just self-interest.

 

Of course they (and all the opposition parties) didn't vote for a GE on Johnson's terms because he's a liar and couldn't be trusted not to manipulation the election date to get no deal through.

 

I don't understand the rest of your points, which make no sense at all.

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[Unbelievable Jeff]

So, libdems...

 

Does not like people having their say (unless the party agrees)

 

Does not respect the voice of the people from 2016

 

Does not intend to respect the vote of any future referendum (unless it goes their way)

 

Does not expect any defectors to them to be accountable to the people

 

Did not vote for a general election

 

However, does back being part of a new empire

 

 

Could you imagine this being the libdems not too many years ago?

 

Do you know what they are though? Speaking on behalf of at least 48% of the nation - no other party can claim that - hence why I moved to them from the Conservatives.

[aintforever]

I struggle to believe that anyone would be surprised by this! If there's one thing that our politicians have proved over the last 3 years it's that they are all self serving ****s with only their own best interests at heart!

 

I’m not surprised by what Cameron said, But I expect a lot of the morons who fell for his bullish!te at the refurendum would be surprised to find out he didn’t believe a word of what he was saying and was just treating the whole thing as if it were some Eton debating game.

[Mark]

Johnson is sounding more and more desperate. He's openly accepting that his reason for clinging to leaving on Oct 31st is nothing to do with it being the best thing for Britain. It's about saving the Conservative Party (and, of course, himself) and stopping Corbyn winning an election.

 

I assumed leaving on Oct 31st was about saving the tories and killing off the brexit party.

[Shroppie]

I assumed leaving on Oct 31st was about saving the tories and killing off the brexit party.

That too.

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[sadoldgit]

So, libdems...

 

Does not like people having their say (unless the party agrees)

 

Does not respect the voice of the people from 2016

 

Does not intend to respect the vote of any future referendum (unless it goes their way)

 

Does not expect any defectors to them to be accountable to the people

 

Did not vote for a general election

 

However, does back being part of a new empire

 

 

Could you imagine this being the libdems not too many years ago?

 

Don’t worry Batman, you will be ok now that Tommy has been released from jail. No need to worry about the nasty liberals.

[sadoldgit]

I bailed on the LibDems when Clegg let the Tories in but pleased to see them as the only established Party with a definitive policy on Brexit.

[scally]

Do you know what they are though? Speaking on behalf of at least 48% of the nation - no other party can claim that - hence why I moved to them from the Conservatives.

 

48% of the nation?

[Shroppie]

I bailed on the LibDems when Clegg let the Tories in but pleased to see them as the only established Party with a definitive policy on Brexit.

The coalition was an effective government. The LibDems moderated the worst Tory excesses and, as history has shown, gave Cameron a letout on a Brexit vote: the LibDems were blamed for blocking it.

 

But the Tories overdid the dissing of their partners at the next election, particularly over tuition fees that the LibDems as the minor partner could never have carried without Tory support.

 

So Cameron accidentally got a majority and lost his get out of jail card on a Brexit referendum, which he didn't want. He thought he could do the same as he did with the PR referendum promised for the LibDems: call it but campaign against. But he reckoned without UKIP, Farage, lies, aggressive new marketing through social media and simplistic false slogans.

 

The rest is becoming history.

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[Batman]

Don’t worry Batman, you will be ok now that Tommy has been released from jail. No need to worry about the nasty liberals.

 

Says the wife beater apologist

Edited 15 September, 2019 by Batman