Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Wes Tender]

The panic levels from the Remoaner establishment are being ramped up to hysteria levels. Today is the main chance for the Remoaners, their last chance saloon to try and derail Brexit. They don't just want to delay it, they want to stop it altogether. They will require Bercow to overstep his authority to allow an emergency motion to be amendable, arguably far more of a constitutional outrage than Boris deciding to prorogue Parliament, which was justifiable as normal procedure and well within the PM's authority. But of course, we won't be seeing rent-a-mob demonstrating against that.

 

It is all very complicated, but if (when) Bercow decides to allow the emergency debate and permits it to be amendable, here is an article delving into the implications and options presented to the Government to counter it:-

 

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/09/02/proponents-of-the-new-bill-to-stop-no-deal-face-a-significant-dilemma-over-queens-consent/

[Wes Tender]

Even though increases in the UK national minimum wage since 1999 have had no real negative employment effects on the UK labour market - despite project fear from economists like Patrick duffer Minford, the Brexiter's go-to economist, who claimed that, at the time of its introduction and at very low levels, the minimum wage would cost over 200,000 jobs.

 

I'll see your project fear Patrick Minford prediction on job losses from the minimum wage and raise you a project fear George Osborne, the Remoaners go-to Chancellor of the Exchequer's prediction on job losses just from voting to leave the EU.

[OldNick]

Even though increases in the UK national minimum wage since 1999 have had no real negative employment effects on the UK labour market - despite project fear from economists like Patrick duffer Minford, the Brexiter's go-to economist, who claimed that, at the time of its introduction and at very low levels, the minimum wage would cost over 200,000 jobs.

I suspect you are correct but mainly due to the shortage of labour. We are basically fully employed Ihave read. You seem to be missing my point though (easily done with my construction of posts) increasing the MW does not mean people are better off,all it does is make the bottom line of the product higher and so the manufacturers employers have to put their prices up, so that eats up the increase and potentially more so. It is a delicate balancing act.To me taking the low paid out of tax altogether would be a better way. If it meant putting 2pon the higher rate tax to do so that would be fine by me to see those hard working people have some more. I dont employ per say and so it is not self interest that I dont wish for a hike in the minimum wage(although I suggest there are at least 5 families are totally reliant on my success however poor that may be)

The grab of shareholders and business assets by the guise of 10% must go to the workers is a blatant sham and vote buyer, as it will be capped at £500 maximum the rest going to the exchequer. **** Turpin would blush at that

[OldNick]

I saw the BBC and there was a Labour politician who said the 'a woman was marched out of Downing street at gunpoint' Chakribati? When further questioned it was she sescorted out by a policeman who had a gun. I suspect all of them in the area are armed and so difficult no to be armed, but a lie as it was not at gunpoint. All MP's are shameless in their lies and fake news.

[saint si]

Yes I want to stop Brexit because it will cause untold damage to my country. Have absolutely no shame in saying that.

[shurlock]

The panic levels from the Remoaner establishment are being ramped up to hysteria levels. Today is the main chance for the Remoaners, their last chance saloon to try and derail Brexit. They don't just want to delay it, they want to stop it altogether. They will require Bercow to overstep his authority to allow an emergency motion to be amendable, arguably far more of a constitutional outrage than Boris deciding to prorogue Parliament, which was justifiable as normal procedure and well within the PM's authority. But of course, we won't be seeing rent-a-mob demonstrating against that.

 

It is all very complicated, but if (when) Bercow decides to allow the emergency debate and permits it to be amendable, here is an article delving into the implications and options presented to the Government to counter it:-

 

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/09/02/proponents-of-the-new-bill-to-stop-no-deal-face-a-significant-dilemma-over-queens-consent/

 

Interesting piece Les, though watch it: Johnny 'Baldrick' Bognor will be here in a minute slating the staggering bias of the LSE (despite the LSE being the birthplace of the old UKIP).

[shurlock]

I'll see your project fear Patrick Minford prediction on job losses from the minimum wage and raise you a project fear George Osborne, the Remoaners go-to Chancellor of the Exchequer's prediction on job losses just from voting to leave the EU.

 

Apples and oranges Les. You're comparing a politician with an economist or ostensible 'expert' (see below).

 

https://www.ft.com/content/534e108a-4651-11e9-b168-96a37d002cd3

Edited 3 September, 2019 by shurlock

[shurlock]

FAO John Misselbrook

 

£ now under $1.20. Should I realise my profits or wait a bit longer pal? Advice welcome.

 

NB I will be doing the opposite to what you recommend

[Whitey Grandad]

The panic levels from the Remoaner establishment are being ramped up to hysteria levels. Today is the main chance for the Remoaners, their last chance saloon to try and derail Brexit. They don't just want to delay it, they want to stop it altogether. They will require Bercow to overstep his authority to allow an emergency motion to be amendable, arguably far more of a constitutional outrage than Boris deciding to prorogue Parliament, which was justifiable as normal procedure and well within the PM's authority. But of course, we won't be seeing rent-a-mob demonstrating against that.

 

It is all very complicated, but if (when) Bercow decides to allow the emergency debate and permits it to be amendable, here is an article delving into the implications and options presented to the Government to counter it:-

 

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/09/02/proponents-of-the-new-bill-to-stop-no-deal-face-a-significant-dilemma-over-queens-consent/

Anyone who uses terms like ‘Remoaner’ cannot expect to be treated as a serious adult.

[Tamesaint]

FAO John Misselbrook

 

£ now under $1.20. Should I realise my profits or wait a bit longer pal? Advice welcome.

 

NB I will be doing the opposite to what you recommend

 

It's funny how he hasn't published one of his graphs showing the movement of the pound.

[shurlock]

Anyone who uses terms like ‘Remoaner’ cannot expect to be treated as a serious adult.

 

Les loves parrroting JRM - btw did you see his encounter with the consultant neurologist who helped author the Operation Yellowhammer document on medicine shortages?

[shurlock]

It's funny how he hasn't published one of his graphs showing the movement of the pound.

 

I miss his cute graphs with the wonky axes that never start in June 2016 and always look like the pound has gone up.

 

Basically what you would expect from pompey poly's second most famous alumnus.

Edited 3 September, 2019 by shurlock

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I agree, but we can recover from No deal. The pound is falling on the fear of both and the added scare of Corbyn will really shove it down more. It is carnage and will only get worse. The flow of foreign companies leaving the UK will increase dramatically now I feel. Any company that was borderline whether to stay or leave will IMHO go , they cant afford to wait for the change of government. As in all things there are winners and losers with the change, some I will be very happy to have had an upturn in their lives. Increasing the Minimum wage is of course a double edged sword, the wages go up but of course that means costs and potential inflation taking away any gain and perhaps more for the extra money earned.

I personally dont thing a minimum of anything helps as that is where the employer will start, much like building standards they are at the minimum as that is where they all head rather than grade upwards.

 

We can recover from a Corbyn administration. It will be a minority government if he got in.

[Johnny Bognor]

Interesting piece Les, though watch it: Johnny 'Baldrick' Bognor will be here in a minute slating the staggering bias of the LSE (despite the LSE being the birthplace of the old UKIP).

 

The LSE wasn't the birthplace of UKIP....

 

Rather one of their professors (Alan Sked) saw the light and formed what we now know as UKIP whilst being a lecturer there. Presumably Sked saw the light before he was placed on the EU payroll

 

His colleagues dont like him, very much... were quite abusive at a recent reunion... no surprise really...

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/brexit-and-universities/

Edited 3 September, 2019 by Johnny Bognor

[norwaysaint]

Anyone who uses terms like ‘Remoaner’ cannot expect to be treated as a serious adult.

 

I have to agree with this. I'm interested in hearing more from both sides of the discussion, as I find it interesting to see how people perceive this step into unknown territory. However I just stop reading when I come to words like this and skip to the next. The same thing goes for someone describing others as rabid or clueless. It's just not how adults behave if they have anything genuine to contribute.

[badgerx16]

Dominic Cummings considers fresh negotiations with the EU to be a sham, so what was Boris doing when he asked for our negotiators to be allowed to get on with their work ?

[Whitey Grandad]

Dominic Cummings considers fresh negotiations with the EU to be a sham, so what was Boris doing when he asked for our negotiators to be allowed to get on with their work ?

 

Everything that Johnson does or says is aimed at domestic consumption.

 

Here is Sir Ivan Rogers's latest essay on the implications of no-deal.

 

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/ivan-rogers-the-realities-of-a-no-deal-brexit/

[shurlock]

The LSE wasn't the birthplace of UKIP....

 

Rather one of their professors (Alan Sked) saw the light and formed what we now know as UKIP whilst being a lecturer there. Presumably Sked saw the light before he was placed on the EU payroll

 

His colleagues dont like him, very much... were quite abusive at a recent reunion... no surprise really...

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/brexit-and-universities/

 

And even Sked, the arch Eurosceptic with a chip on his shoulder, admits that most EU specialists are much more critical of the EU, even if they oppose Brexit (a far cry from your usual guff that suggests they're all unapologetic cheerleaders). Christ he's railing on about university hysteria yet allowed to publish on UK in a changing Europe run by Anand Menon which you've also accused of being EU stooges. This crushing McCarthyism is a bit selective or not very successful, is it pal

 

And don't underestimate the LSE's role in early euroscepticism (leaving aside the long tradition of conservative-libertarian-thatcherite thought there thanks to the influence of Hayek). Did you attend UKIP's first national conference that was held in the LSE's prestigious Old Theatre? Maybe Les did.

Edited 3 September, 2019 by shurlock

[Wes Tender]

Anyone who uses terms like ‘Remoaner’ cannot expect to be treated as a serious adult.

 

I assume that you are going to be even-handed and likewise condemn those who call Leavers/Brexiteers swivel-eyed loons and other such childish names? Thinking about it, I don't ever recall any such criticism from you. It's just a one-way street with you, isn't it?

[Whitey Grandad]

I assume that you are going to be even-handed and likewise condemn those who call Leavers/Brexiteers swivel-eyed loons and other such childish names? Thinking about it, I don't ever recall any such criticism from you. It's just a one-way street with you, isn't it?

 

Tu Quoque is such a feeble debating technique.

 

If you can't recall any criticism it's perhaps there isn't any? Can we please maintain at the least some pretence of sensible debate.

[Johnny Bognor]

I assume that you are going to be even-handed and likewise condemn those who call Leavers/Brexiteers swivel-eyed loons and other such childish names? Thinking about it, I don't ever recall any such criticism from you. It's just a one-way street with you, isn't it?

 

I like the childish names. They are a term of endearment. And it's better to be talked about, thank ignored. Consider it a privilege that someone will take time out of their busy schedule to name check you. I'm quite honoured tbf (especially as I haven't been around much in the last year or so)

[Wes Tender]

Tu Quoque is such a feeble debating technique.

 

If you can't recall any criticism it's perhaps there isn't any? Can we please maintain at the least some pretence of sensible debate.

 

So you aren't going to be even-handed then? You confirm that you haven't been critical of any childish name-calling by the Remain side? Fair enough. One rule for Brexit posters, another for them.

 

I am not about to take criticism for name-calling from you if you aren't capable of being consistent in criticising the other side of it too.

[Whitey Grandad]

So you aren't going to be even-handed then? You confirm that you haven't been critical of any childish name-calling by the Remain side? Fair enough. One rule for Brexit posters, another for them.

 

I am not about to take criticism for name-calling from you if you aren't capable of being consistent in criticising the other side of it too.

 

That is so unbelievably childish of you.

 

I cannot speak for others so I only speak for myself. My criticism is aimed at you and you alone.

[Guided Missile]

Thank you for that, Private Frazer. I think you have no idea how a weak pound will enhance the value of UK stocks when the gamblers quit the scene and the long term value of UK plc is recognised. In the coming years the UK will be also recognised as the country that jumped into a lifeboat, not went down with the ship.

 

FTSE 100 since above post

 

]

[Batman]

That is so unbelievably childish of you.

 

I cannot speak for others so I only speak for myself. My criticism is aimed at you and you alone.

 

What if he showed you name calling towards a pro brexit user on the thread?

 

Would you equally condemn the post/user?

[OldNick]

We can recover from a Corbyn administration. It will be a minority government if he got in.

your complacency is surprising

[OldNick]

That is so unbelievably childish of you.

 

I cannot speak for others so I only speak for myself. My criticism is aimed at you and you alone.

to be fair yours is a one sided criticism. You should be even handed if you want to keep the moral high ground. IMO there has been far too much name calling on both sides.

[Whitey Grandad]

FTSE 100 since above post

 

]

 

Go back another few years, the last decade say.

[Whitey Grandad]

What if he showed you name calling towards a pro brexit user on the thread?

 

What if he did? Just because somebody else does it does't excuse this particular behaviour. As I said, this is behaviour belongs in the playground.

 

Would you equally condemn the post/user?

 

to be fair yours is a one sided criticism. You should be even handed if you want to keep the moral high ground. IMO there has been far too much name calling on both sides.

 

What? Am I now to be criticised for not criticising every instance of name-calling that anybody might have said, ever?

 

Yeah, it's alwasys somebody else's fault, isn't it? Let's deal with one thing at a time.

[sadoldgit]

It would appear that Boris has been less than honest again. The EU seem puzzled by his suggestion that they are making progress and that a deal is just as far away as ever. Whatever side of the divide you are on surely we can all agree that this whole process has been a fiasco? We elect people to make decisions on our behalf. Most of these people seem to agree that leaving the EU without a deal is, at the very least, foolhardy and unwise. We need an extension to the leaving date rather than Johnson's gung-ho "do or die" rhetoric and we need an election so that the newly elected Government know exactly what is expected of them going forward. Hopefully then this lying, self serving idiot will be out on his arse.

[badgerx16]

What? Am I now to be criticised for not criticising every instance of name-calling that anybody might have said, ever?

 

Yeah, it's alwasys somebody else's fault, isn't it? Let's deal with one thing at a time.

I'm sanguine about being a "traitor" or a "quisling", particularly as the use of the latter shows a complete lack of understanding of historical context. Somebody suggesting remain voters be strung up by piano wire is taking it down to the depths of the lowest sewer, and shows such individuals up for the fascist thugs they pretend not to be.

[badgerx16]

FTSE 100 since above post

 

]

 

And 10 years ago it was below 5000, this graph provides nothing to any argument regarding the Brexit vote.

Edited 3 September, 2019 by badgerx16

[shurlock]

FTSE 100 since above post

 

]

 

 

[shurlock]

And 10 years ago it was below 5000, this graph provides nothing to any argument regarding the Brexit vote.

 

FTSE 100 is comprised of international companies that are reliant on foreign revenues (so do well when UK PLC and £ do badly). It also doesn't take into account the fact that other large cap indices around the world have grown over the same period (in italics to preempt the thickos possible next move).

 

John's been told this numerous times before but he's a tad slow - I'd rather trust a toddler with a machete than John with data.

Edited 3 September, 2019 by shurlock

[Guided Missile]

Go back another few years, the last decade say.

Not really relevant to my post, dated 27th June, 2016, when you predicted Armageddon, though is it? #missedthepoint

[Unbelievable Jeff]

your complacency is surprising

 

TBH, I'm so sick of the whole thing that I'm not looking that far ahead - it's more twisty-turny than a twisty-turny thing.

 

Frankly, we'll see what happens before prorogation, and then I'll worry about Corbyn if they accept a GE (which I'm not sure they will do at the moment).

 

Personally I'd like to do a little bit of my own analysis once the manifesto's are presented to work out how much McDonnell thinks he'd be able to do.

[Wes Tender]

That is so unbelievably childish of you.

 

I cannot speak for others so I only speak for myself. My criticism is aimed at you and you alone.

 

You just don't get it, do you? You say that anybody calling those who wished to remain in the EU "Remoaners", cannot be expected to be treated like an adult. But you refuse to accept that by extension all those posters on the other side using insulting language should be treated in the same way too. Your powers of comprehension are getting a bit weak, I'm afraid. I am not asking you to speak for others. I am inviting you to state that others on the remain side are at least as guilty of puerile name-calling and that you condemn them too.

 

Surely that isn't too much to ask. Or do you approve of it when it's from the remain side?

[badgerx16]

Not really relevant to my post, dated 27th June, 2016, when you predicted Armageddon, though is it? #missedthepoint

We haven't left, and may well still not do so. In the meantime, the Casino Capitalists will always find ways to make money out of any situation.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

FTSE 100 is comprised of international companies that are reliant on foreign revenues (so do well when UK PLC and £ do badly). It also doesn't take into account the fact that other large cap indices around the world have grown over the same period (in italics to preempt the thickos possible next move).

 

John's been told this numerous times before but he's a tad slow - I'd rather trust a toddler with a machete than John with data.

 

I can't believe that it's had to be explained again. It's mental.

 

It's good for pensioners about to draw their index linked pensions. It's very bad for people who want money from companies listed on the FTSE to stay in the UK.

[badgerx16]

You just don't get it, do you? You say that anybody calling those who wished to remain in the EU "Remoaners", cannot be expected to be treated like an adult. But you refuse to accept that by extension all those posters on the other side using insulting language should be treated in the same way too. Your powers of comprehension are getting a bit weak, I'm afraid. I am not asking you to speak for others. I am inviting you to state that others on the remain side are at least as guilty of puerile name-calling and that you condemn them too.

 

Surely that isn't too much to ask. Or do you approve of it when it's from the remain side?

Wes, on TV last night they showed a group of Brexit supporters shouting "you're not British any more" at a group of pro-EU demonstrators. Do you agree with them ?

( Most of the playground antics on here, from both sides, are pathetic, but probably only reflect what our politicians have been doing for at least the last 5 years ).

[hypochondriac]

Wes, on TV last night they showed a group of Brexit supporters shouting "you're not British any more" at a group of pro-EU demonstrators. Do you agree with them ?

( Most of the playground antics on here, from both sides, are pathetic, but probably only reflect what our politicians have been doing for at least the last 5 years ).

That's obviously idiotic but tbf there have been some monumentally stupid and abusive things from people on both sides.

[badgerx16]

That's obviously idiotic but tbf there have been some monumentally stupid and abusive things from people on both sides.

 

I watched the first episode of "Rise of the Nazis", and some of the parallels between political activism in Germany in the late 1920s/ early 1930s and the UK in the last 4 years were worrying. Obviously we haven't got armed paramilitaries walking round, but with the ( verbally ) aggressive entrenchment towards both extremes of the political spectrum, the manipulation of Parliamentary process, and the increasingly overt xenophobia spouted by some, I can't see any chance of a "healing process" any time soon.

[OldNick]

I watched the first episode of "Rise of the Nazis", and some of the parallels between political activism in Germany in the late 1920s/ early 1930s and the UK in the last 4 years were worrying. Obviously we haven't got armed paramilitaries walking round, but with the ( verbally ) aggressive entrenchment towards both extremes of the political spectrum, the manipulation of Parliamentary process, and the increasingly overt xenophobia spouted by some, I can't see any chance of a "healing process" any time soon.

Strangely enough I thought the same last night after reading the FT article telling us Labours thoughts. The retraining of the civil service to be more in line with their theories was most alarming. No more non political ideals similar to how the civil service was manipulated by the Nazis in the occupied lands.

[rallyboy]

Boris is currently stood in the commons, blustering, blaming others, mumbling, making up stuff and doing a good impression of a jovial stand-up on The Good Old Days.

From his panto version of events, I'm not sure why anyone is worried, the UK is leading the world in every field of human endeavour.

Which is nice.

[badgerx16]

Boris has just lost his majority as Dr Philip Lee MP resigns the Conservative Whip and joins the LibDems.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

 

:lol:

[OldNick]

 

:lol:

Did his constituency vote in or out I wonder? 27 years he has been earning a fine salary and his wonderful pension. Never heard of him until today. As for the Liberals being the right people, god the leader jumps from one side to the other

[Guided Missile]

Herbert et al missing the point

 

Calm down dear, it's only the EU...

 

 

Are you serious? This is far worse than 2008. The fall in the world's stockmarkets on Friday was $2,000,000,000,000 .

 

 

As i just said to Wes, you have no idea of the damage that you have caused.

 

FTSE 100 since above post

 

[shurlock]

Ken Clarke destroying Johnson.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Did his constituency vote in or out I wonder? 27 years he has been earning a fine salary and his wonderful pension. Never heard of him until today. As for the Liberals being the right people, god the leader jumps from one side to the other

 

He was the first minister to resign over Brexit, so you should have heard of him.

 

It's a good pension, but for the work they do I think an MP should be paid more than a bog standard Accountant.