Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[saint1977]

fair point and the massive market of the EU was the reason I wished to stay in. We are also a large market of 65-70m people who the EU would like to deal with of course. I remember the UK before it had membership and it wasnt utopia I can promise you that. Membership of the EU has without doubt made us a more affluent society.

 

Absolutely, and of course the UK then becomes a less attractive proposition without the leverage a no deal crash out causes. The likes of Liam Fox, who used to be very strongly no-deal, have realised this during a second stint as a minister and you could see his position shifting - sensible as well. I never liked him overly but genuinely respect him as a politician and a human for that in an era where ideological dogma is everything, whether left or right. You've only got to see Corbyn's bonkers alleged plans in the FT today to see it isn't the just the far right with problems either.

 

We are getting some fresh investment but that's because the £ is tanking and it won't be as stable as we've had from Nissan, Honda, HSBC etc. It doesn't cancel out the major media firms moving their HQs and regulatory arms to mainland Europe with the massive tax loss, not to mention the £900m (FT, Bloomberg) that has already shifted out of the UK from financial services which is likely to become a flow with the likes of Moneygram already moving to Brussels (and some of my friends in these sectors have recieved violent threats online from the most far right Brexiteers for pointing this out). In turn, that means that the UK will be less well placed to take advantage of low interest rates with reduced access to international credit lines and banks/insurance major players having to contend with much higher levels of paperwork and regulations caused by No Deal.

[Guided Missile]

I don't think Boris is guaranteed a majority either by a long chalk - can you honestly taking the ideological glasses off actually see Philip Hammond getting defeated say as an Independent candidate in a Remain voting seat? And the others as well?

I would be amazed if more than a single MP is elected as an Independent or Minor party member at the next GE. There have been only 13 different persons elected as such in Great Britain since 1950.

Edited 2 September, 2019 by Guided Missile

[Johnny Bognor]

The government are just starting to drop some proper information for post 31st October, including ‘Travel to Europe after Brexit’. So we should start to see some BENEFITS now and as long as we BELIEVE then everything is going to work out much better then before.

 

So reading through;

 

Stricter passport needs - you have to have 6 months left on your passport. Just got to renew it a little earlier every 10 years. No big deal really

EHIC not valid - OK you will need some travel insurance, which you should have anyway

Need for greater travel insurance - Not an expensive purchase really, when compared the cost of travelling

Need for a visa if staying over 90 days - I dont know anyone that has stayed over 90 days in the last few years. Will effect very few people

Far greater admin and information needed to drive in the EU - Ive driven twice in France this year. No big deal, not when you've got to have all the crap in your car to drive in France

Removal of free data roaming - WIFI is a fairly common technology these days. Most hotels have it. And the Telco's will be competing for business, so who says it will disappear

Separate queues at immigration - seperate queues on returning to the UK with no EU citizens in the queue. Might take a bit longer outbound, but will be quicker inbound

Removal of the pet passport and a far more arduous process implemented. - I dont actually know anyone that has taken a pet on holiday. Will effect maybe 1 in 5000 or 1 in 10000 people

 

Jeez, these BENEFITS are really starting to shine through!

 

I guess how you view things is whether you are a half empty or half full type of person

[OldNick]

Absolutely, and of course the UK then becomes a less attractive proposition without the leverage a no deal crash out causes. The likes of Liam Fox, who used to be very strongly no-deal, have realised this during a second stint as a minister and you could see his position shifting - sensible as well. I never liked him overly but genuinely respect him as a politician and a human for that in an era where ideological dogma is everything, whether left or right. You've only got to see Corbyn's bonkers alleged plans in the FT today to see it isn't the just the far right with problems either.

 

We are getting some fresh investment but that's because the £ is tanking and it won't be as stable as we've had from Nissan, Honda, HSBC etc. It doesn't cancel out the major media firms moving their HQs and regulatory arms to mainland Europe with the massive tax loss, not to mention the £900m (FT, Bloomberg) that has already shifted out of the UK from financial services which is likely to become a flow with the likes of Moneygram already moving to Brussels (and some of my friends in these sectors have recieved violent threats online from the most far right Brexiteers for pointing this out). In turn, that means that the UK will be less well placed to take advantage of low interest rates with reduced access to international credit lines and banks/insurance major players having to contend with much higher levels of paperwork and regulations caused by No Deal.

I agree but of course if the outflow starts to gain too much the Government could slash corporation tax to below the Irish level. Needs must I suppose. There are some good brains making strategy behind the scenes I should hope, surely we wont just stand back and let it go too far down the drain... but who knows. I notice someone mentioned Trump and not trusting him, Im suspicious kind of encouraging us to leave and once we have and vulnerable we are then left to the wolves of wall street.

[Wes Tender]

I would be amazed if more than a single MP is elected as an Independent or Minor party member at the next GE. There have been only 13 different persons elected as such in Great Britain since 1950.

 

GM, surely you're overlooking the one big plus that Spreadsheet Phil has that will swing the vote his way - his dynamic personality, matinee idol good looks and magnetic charisma.

[Guided Missile]

GM, surely you're overlooking the one big plus that Spreadsheet Phil has that will swing the vote his way - his dynamic personality, matinee idol good looks and magnetic charisma.

Not to mention disloyalty and duplicity...

[Whitey Grandad]

I guess how you view things is whether you are a half empty or half full type of person

 

You are displaying your own limited experience and views here.

 

EHIC - It's ok f you're young and healthy but just wait until you get older and start to have medical conditions and a complicated medical history. Insurance can cost well into four figures.

Travel insurance - Not an expensive purchase? See above.

More than 90 days - Many people lead a dual existence between different countries.

EU driving - You obviously don't remeber the bad old days. Two type of international driving licence needed and geen cards for insurance.

Immigration queues - "Might take a bit longer outbound" Just a 'bit'? Try two or three hours. You must be too young to remember the bad old days.

Pet passport - Just because you don't have a pet doesn't mean that many, many others don't. I know several people that do.

 

As I have said before, selfish and irresponsible.

[Johnny Bognor]

You are displaying your own limited experience and views here.

 

EHIC - It's ok f you're young and healthy but just wait until you get older and start to have medical conditions and a complicated medical history. Insurance can cost well into four figures.

Travel insurance - Not an expensive purchase? See above.

More than 90 days - Many people lead a dual existence between different countries.

EU driving - You obviously don't remeber the bad old days. Two type of international driving licence needed and geen cards for insurance.

Immigration queues - "Might take a bit longer outbound" Just a 'bit'? Try two or three hours. You must be too young to remember the bad old days.

Pet passport - Just because you don't have a pet doesn't mean that many, many others don't. I know several people that do.

 

As I have said before, selfish and irresponsible.

 

You are displaying your own limited experience and views here.

I lived in Paris for 5 years during the 80’s. Travelling frequently between the UK and France, at least 20 times per year. Then with holidays etc, I was a frequent traveller to the continent and further afield.

 

EHIC - It's ok f you're young and healthy but just wait until you get older and start to have medical conditions and a complicated medical history. Insurance can cost well into four figures.

So old people with conditions don’t travel to the US, Asia, etc etc? If they do, they will already have the insurance

 

Travel insurance - Not an expensive purchase? See above.

For those who probably shouldn’t be travelling with such serious conditions

 

More than 90 days - Many people lead a dual existence between different countries.

How many people do you actually know? As it happens, my parents lived in France/UK and Spain/UK throughout the 80’s. Nowhere near as bad as you suggest

 

EU driving - You obviously don't remeber the bad old days. Two type of international driving licence needed and geen cards for insurance.

I didn’t drive back then, but both my parents did. I never remember them complaining. In fact I’ve just asked my Dad. Nowhere near as bad as you suggest, at all.

 

Immigration queues - "Might take a bit longer outbound" Just a 'bit'? Try two or three hours. You must be too young to remember the bad old days.

I never waited 2-3 hours in hundreds of trips in the 80’s. In fact I’ve never waited 2-3 hours anywhere in my life and I’ve travelled all over the world from Asia, Europe, US (I used to work out there), etc etc

 

Pet passport - Just because you don't have a pet doesn't mean that many, many others don't. I know several people that do.

Can you actually, hand on heart, name ONE person you know that has taken a pet abroad? A friend of mine, once took a dog to Switzerland, in 1995

[buctootim]

You are displaying your own limited experience and views here.

I lived in Paris for 5 years during the 80’s. Travelling frequently between the UK and France, at least 20 times per year. Then with holidays etc, I was a frequent traveller to the continent and further afield.

 

EHIC - It's ok f you're young and healthy but just wait until you get older and start to have medical conditions and a complicated medical history. Insurance can cost well into four figures.

So old people with conditions don’t travel to the US, Asia, etc etc? If they do, they will already have the insurance

 

Travel insurance - Not an expensive purchase? See above.

For those who probably shouldn’t be travelling with such serious conditions

 

More than 90 days - Many people lead a dual existence between different countries.

How many people do you actually know? As it happens, my parents lived in France/UK and Spain/UK throughout the 80’s. Nowhere near as bad as you suggest

 

EU driving - You obviously don't remeber the bad old days. Two type of international driving licence needed and geen cards for insurance.

I didn’t drive back then, but both my parents did. I never remember them complaining. In fact I’ve just asked my Dad. Nowhere near as bad as you suggest, at all.

 

Immigration queues - "Might take a bit longer outbound" Just a 'bit'? Try two or three hours. You must be too young to remember the bad old days.

I never waited 2-3 hours in hundreds of trips in the 80’s. In fact I’ve never waited 2-3 hours anywhere in my life and I’ve travelled all over the world from Asia, Europe, US (I used to work out there), etc etc

 

Pet passport - Just because you don't have a pet doesn't mean that many, many others don't. I know several people that do.

Can you actually, hand on heart, name ONE person you know that has taken a pet abroad? A friend of mine, once took a dog to Switzerland, in 1995

 

Seems like your entire life experience stopped in the 1980s - ie well before Schengen and the single market. As for never waiting 2-3 hours at immigration whilst working in the US - either you have a poor memory or you made it up. I travelled to the US for work until two years ago. Immigration at all the major gateways frequently took two hours. Not occasionally, frequently. As for your observation on health insurance, its ignorance in a bottle. Many people have chronic conditions which are managed and they are mostly well but can be liable to flare ups which require hospitalisation. I know two people whose travel insurance will go up 10 and 12 fold respectively under a no EHIC scheme.

 

The Governments own planning for no deal says that under normal circumstances trucks will have to wait 6 hours to cross into the EU and in a worst case scenario 36-48 hours. Currently it averages two minutes.

 

When the referendum took place I thought the debits of leaving outweighed the benefits by 60-40. Now its looking more like 90-10.

Edited 2 September, 2019 by buctootim

[OldNick]

Seems like your entire life experience stopped in the 1980s - ie well before Schengen and the single market. As for never waiting 2-3 hours at immigration whilst working in the US - either you have a poor memory or you made it up. I travelled to the US for work until two years ago. Immigration at all the major gateways frequently took two hours. Not occasionally, frequently. As for your observation on health insurance, its ignorance in a bottle. Many people have chronic conditions which are managed and they are mostly well but can be liable to flare ups which require hospitalisation. I know two people whose travel insurance will go up 10 and 12 fold respectively under a no EHIC scheme.

 

The Governments own planning for no deal says that under normal circumstances trucks will have to wait 6 hours to cross into the EU and in a worst case scenario 36-48 hours. Currently it averages two minutes.

 

When the referendum took place I thought the debits of leaving outweighed the benefits by 60-40. Now its looking more like 90-10.

Im sure this maybe the case, but once realism clicks in the Europeans will want it to speed up, all their produce sitting at the ports rotting will focus minds. It is a disaster but I have a faint hope that it may get sorted a tad for everybody. All I read is panic and negativity which in turn is self destructive. That is why I now think we need to jump off the boat and hopefully swim to safety, the constant bickering is driving the majority mad.

As for American immigration, that is very annoying but even with a couple of planes going into Florida at the same time it never has taken us more than 2 hours to get through. Very annoying though

[buctootim]

Im sure this maybe the case, but once realism clicks in the Europeans will want it to speed up, all their produce sitting at the ports rotting will focus minds. It is a disaster but I have a faint hope that it may get sorted a tad for everybody. All I read is panic and negativity which in turn is self destructive. That is why I now think we need to jump off the boat and hopefully swim to safety, the constant bickering is driving the majority mad.

As for American immigration, that is very annoying but even with a couple of planes going into Florida at the same time it never has taken us more than 2 hours to get through. Very annoying though

 

Its not lack of willingness or goodwill, its a simple reflection of the fact that currently we have common taxation, tariff and safety standards - so there isn't anything to check. But Johnson wants to diverge from that. It you have to work out tariffs, compliance with standards and duties payable its way more complicated and will take much longer.

 

Agree more than two hours is uncommon but 1.5-2 hours is pretty typical especially outside Florida which is a holiday destination and the flow of people in is fairly consistent. New York, Los Angeles, Raleigh-Durham, Minneapolis, Dulles etc are different from day to day, time of day and with the season. As with the trucks, an EU passport conveys commonly agreed standards, so minimal checks. The lines at non EU passports are always longer as the process is more complicated.

Edited 2 September, 2019 by buctootim

[OldNick]

Its not lack of willingness or goodwill, its a simple reflection of the fact that currently we have common taxation, tariff and safety standards - so there isn't anything to check. But Johnson wants to diverge from that. It you have to work out tariffs, compliance with standards and duties payable its way more complicated and will take much longer.

But I thought we were going to keep this the same initially, anyway? so that things could be smooth.

To a layman like myself the conflicting stories can muddle, yourself and Shurlock seem to be at a better level of understanding on this but it all seems up in the air to all of us

[buctootim]

But I thought we were going to keep this the same initially, anyway? so that things could be smooth.

To a layman like myself the conflicting stories can muddle, yourself and Shurlock seem to be at a better level of understanding on this but it all seems up in the air to all of us

 

There was to be a steady state 20 month implementation period under May's deal. No deal means there wont be one.

[OldNick]

There was to be a steady state 20 month implementation period under May's deal. No deal means there wont be one.

Is that set in stone?

Now talkagain of a sanp election, oh dear god no. Time then to turn off my social media, I cant stand my champagne socialist friends sending the links to left wing stories while their children go to public/private schools and have Waitrose home delivery

[buctootim]

Is that set in stone?

 

Not set in stone, but you need some kind of agreement. I actually think it will be worse long term than short term. The day after leave any EU country with an international freight terminal (port or air) may take the line that since Britain hasnt actually changed anything yet they can assume compliance. Once we start to deviate on tariffs, adopting US standards instead of EU etc thats when the problems will start to pile up.

[Whitey Grandad]

You are displaying your own limited experience and views here.

I lived in Paris for 5 years during the 80’s. Travelling frequently between the UK and France, at least 20 times per year. Then with holidays etc, I was a frequent traveller to the continent and further afield.

 

EHIC - It's ok f you're young and healthy but just wait until you get older and start to have medical conditions and a complicated medical history. Insurance can cost well into four figures.

So old people with conditions don’t travel to the US, Asia, etc etc? If they do, they will already have the insurance

Do you have any idea of the cost of travel insurance to the USA? Older people with serious conditions just don't go there. You are talking about four figures for single-trip cover.

 

Travel insurance - Not an expensive purchase? See above.

For those who probably shouldn’t be travelling with such serious conditions

There are penty of people wit chronic conditions that could possibly flare up. You are obviously young. Just wait until you get over 60.

 

More than 90 days - Many people lead a dual existence between different countries.

How many people do you actually know? As it happens, my parents lived in France/UK and Spain/UK throughout the 80’s. Nowhere near as bad as you suggest

That was before the problems of large-scale migration. Things are much tighter now. Even as an EU citizen you cannot stay for longer than three months unless you are in education, economically active or self-sufficient. Once we are a third country what you are describing becomes as difficult as staying in somewhere like Australia or New Zealand.

EU driving - You obviously don't remeber the bad old days. Two type of international driving licence needed and geen cards for insurance.

I didn’t drive back then, but both my parents did. I never remember them complaining. In fact I’ve just asked my Dad. Nowhere near as bad as you suggest, at all.

I have been driving throughout Europe since 1967 when we went down to Italy. International driving permits and petrol coupouns. It was possible but a pain in the backside. The introduction of the Single Market and Schengen was a breath of fresh air. Now I can jump in my car at a moment's notice and drive down to the Mediterranean and back without any preparation. And I can carry a carload of goods with me at the same time. Your dad couldn't have done that.

Immigration queues - "Might take a bit longer outbound" Just a 'bit'? Try two or three hours. You must be too young to remember the bad old days.

I never waited 2-3 hours in hundreds of trips in the 80’s. In fact I’ve never waited 2-3 hours anywhere in my life and I’ve travelled all over the world from Asia, Europe, US (I used to work out there), etc etc

Before Schengen there used to be a border post on the Spanish/French border on the E-15 near Le Boulou. On a Saturday morning in July the queues were over four hours. The Danish/German border near Padborg used to have queues counted in hours in the 1980s. You must have been lucky or have a selective memory.

 

Pet passport - Just because you don't have a pet doesn't mean that many, many others don't. I know several people that do.

Can you actually, hand on heart, name ONE person you know that has taken a pet abroad? A friend of mine, once took a dog to Switzerland, in 1995

Yes I do know people with pets but I will obviously not name them here. Before the pet passport scheme was introduced people didn't take their pets abroad because of the quarantine requirements. Nowadays every Brittany Ferry from Portsmouth has several dogs on each crossing.

...

[Whitey Grandad]

Im sure this maybe the case, but once realism clicks in the Europeans will want it to speed up, all their produce sitting at the ports rotting will focus minds. It is a disaster but I have a faint hope that it may get sorted a tad for everybody. All I read is panic and negativity which in turn is self destructive. That is why I now think we need to jump off the boat and hopefully swim to safety, the constant bickering is driving the majority mad.

As for American immigration, that is very annoying but even with a couple of planes going into Florida at the same time it never has taken us more than 2 hours to get through. Very annoying though

 

US immigration has always been notorious although we have been through it in a couple of minutes and have also waited in line at New York cruise terminal for over four hours. This. of course, is not related to us leaving the EU.

[buctootim]

Is that set in stone?

Now talkagain of a sanp election, oh dear god no. Time then to turn off my social media, I cant stand my champagne socialist friends sending the links to left wing stories while their children go to public/private schools and have Waitrose home delivery

 

I've never understood the right wing argument that its hypocrisy to be well paid or wealthy and to vote for a more redistributive party instead of voting for self interest. Altruism is not hypocrisy. Arguing that the wealthy are only allowed to express socially progressive views if they have first given up all their income and gone to live in a bedsit is risible.

[Wes Tender]

......yourself and Shurlock seem to be at a better level of understanding on this

 

 

Oh, I don't know Nick. Timmy's level of understanding meant that he was adamant from the beginning that we would end up with a Norway style deal. He was even prepared to place a £50 bet (proceeds to charity) on it. That isn't looking very likely now, is it?

[buctootim]

Oh, I don't know Nick. Timmy's level of understanding meant that he was adamant from the beginning that we would end up with a Norway style deal. He was even prepared to place a £50 bet (proceeds to charity) on it. That isn't looking very likely now, is it?

 

I already give more than £50pm to charity so it makes no difference to me. The attraction was extracting £50 from the wallet of the most myopic dullard on here and giving it to a cause he resents.

[Batman]

Election in-bound then.

 

One theory is that an election will be called before the 31 Oct deadline (Parliament suspended/dissolved). The PM to then use existing powers to delay the date of the election until after 31 Oct, meaning we could leave the EU by default with little/nothing anyone could do. Other than not vote for a GE, which Labour have campaigned for having one over the last god knows how many years!

 

[Wes Tender]

I already give more than £50pm to charity so it makes no difference to me. The attraction was extracting £50 from the wallet of the most myopic dullard on here and giving it to a cause he resents.

 

OOOH! Tetchy, Timmy. You don't appreciate being shown up by a myopic dullard who was more capable than you when it came to predicting that we would not go for the Norway deal, do you?

 

Surely the essence of the bet was that the money be donated to a charity chosen by the winner? When you are resigned to your bet having been lost, kindly furnish me with a list of charities you resent and I'll choose one for you.

[OldNick]

Oh, I don't know Nick. Timmy's level of understanding meant that he was adamant from the beginning that we would end up with a Norway style deal. He was even prepared to place a £50 bet (proceeds to charity) on it. That isn't looking very likely now, is it?

Lol. I think there are valid posters on both sides. I can see both parts of the argument and jump from one fence to the other depending on my mood lol

[RedArmy]

Would have been funnier if he’d just walked to the podium and stuck 2 fingers up.

[Batman]

Would have been funnier if he’d just walked to the podium and stuck 2 fingers up.

 

Another one who needs to get a grip

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Hammond's seat was Remain, but the vote was as close to 50/50 as it could possibly be. I'm afraid that you just don't understand Conservative voters, especially those in the leafy Home ounty shires like Surrey. Apart from the referendum vote being split, so that many of the leave voters will desert him, he will no longer be the official Conservative candidate, so many traditional Conservative voters will also give him the order of the boot. The outcome also depends on whether The Brexit Party fields a candidate, and whether a proportion of the Remain vote switches to the Lib Dumbs. Labour are not likely to increase their vote there, so the Lib Dumbs or a proper pro-leave Conservative are the likely inroads against Spreadsheet Phil's support.

 

Take it from someone that lives in said constituency, the Lib Dems will be massively increasing their vote next time if it means no Brexit. Labour support here is, how can I put it - fickle, and if the Brexit party field a candidate the Tories will be done here. It may be a mostly Conservative constituency, but it is also quite a highly educated area with a huge amount of bankers that don't want to lose money on their property (that has already started happening in the area).

 

People here are greedy, not stupid, so you'll see them vote for what is best for them. It will be the same in Spellthorne, Guildford, Effingham, Dorking, Weybridge, Cobham, Walton and Esher. No deal is a killer for the area, so it won't go as you imagine.

Edited 2 September, 2019 by Unbelievable Jeff

[Shroppie]

Election in-bound then.

 

One theory is that an election will be called before the 31 Oct deadline (Parliament suspended/dissolved). The PM to then use existing powers to delay the date of the election until after 31 Oct, meaning we could leave the EU by default with little/nothing anyone could do. Other than not vote for a GE, which Labour have campaigned for having one over the last god knows how many years!

 

That is a distinct possibility. Get parliament dissolved on the basis of a promised election date before 31st Oct, then renege on the date and go for November, meaning no mechanism whatsoever in place to stop a no-deal.

 

He's bloody-minded enough to do it and, unless there are absolute guarantees that the date will be in October, which I don't think there can be, it's a trap and the Opposition should not vote for dissolution. He needs a 2/3 majority.

 

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[buctootim]

OOOH! Tetchy, Timmy. You don't appreciate being shown up by a myopic dullard who was more capable than you when it came to predicting that we would not go for the Norway deal, do you?

 

Surely the essence of the bet was that the money be donated to a charity chosen by the winner? When you are resigned to your bet having been lost, kindly furnish me with a list of charities you resent and I'll choose one for you.

 

If you were just a tad brighter you'd realise what Johnson wants is May's deal minus the backstop - ie nearly two more years in the single market and customs union. During those two years he'd negotiate something near identical except in name to those transitional arrangements. But you aren't, so you don't.

[buctootim]

That is a distinct possibility. Get parliament dissolved on the basis of a promised election date before 31st Oct, then renege on the date and go for November, meaning no mechanism whatsoever in place to stop a no-deal.

 

He's bloody-minded enough to do it and, unless there are absolute guarantees that the date will be in October, which I don't think there can be, it's a trap and the Opposition should not vote for dissolution. He needs a 2/3 majority.

 

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He's definitely lying and luring one side into a trap. The trouble is no-one knows which side he will sell out, maybe not even him. His primary concern is to stay as PM over and above his political preferences.

Edited 2 September, 2019 by buctootim

[Shroppie]

He's definitely lying and luring one side into a trap. The trouble is no-one knows which side he will sell out, maybe not even him.

He clearly is desperate to avoid it coming to a vote on stopping no-deal. If the opposition get control of business, the vote will happen and Johnson will probably lose, forcing him to be blatant about ignoring it.

 

So I'm guessing that if the vote on control of business is lost, he'll immediately move to try to get a GE. I seriously hope he can't get the 2/3 majority. If he succeeds, probably on the basis of a promised date in October, I'd fully expect the lying, devious PM that he is to postpone the election until November. No Government, no way to stop no deal.

 

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[buctootim]

Take it from someone that lives in said constituency, the Lib Dems will be massively increasing their vote next time if it means no Brexit. Labour support here is, how can I put it - fickle, and if the Brexit party field a candidate the Tories will be done here. It may be a mostly Conservative constituency, but it is also quite a highly educated area with a huge amount of bankers that don't want to lose money on their property (that has already started happening in the area).

 

People here are greedy, not stupid, so you'll see them vote for what is best for them. It will be the same in Spellthorne, Guildford, Effingham, Dorking, Weybridge, Cobham, Walton and Esher. No deal is a killer for the area, so it won't go as you imagine.

 

Agree it will be a much harder election to predict because far more constituencies will not follow what the polls show for overall national voting intentions as Brexit transcends parties. I'll vote LD because they have a chance to win and my Tory MP is a total *****. In the adjoining constituency the pro remain Tory Nicholas Soames is MP and I'd vote for him rather than allow Brexit party in. If I was still living in Brighton I'd probably vote Green for Caroline Lucas.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I wonder if we'll see Parliament try to impose an automatic application for delay to "no deal" date if a general election is called.

[buctootim]

He clearly is desperate to avoid it coming to a vote on stopping no-deal. If the opposition get control of business, the vote will happen and Johnson will probably lose, forcing him to be blatant about ignoring it.

 

So I'm guessing that if the vote on control of business is lost, he'll immediately move to try to get a GE. I seriously hope he can't get the 2/3 majority. If he succeeds, probably on the basis of a promised date in October, I'd fully expect the lying, devious PM that he is to postpone the election until November. No Government, no way to stop no deal.

 

Agree. It all hinges on what Corbyn will do in those circumstances. I hope he is smart enough to think strategically and whip Labour to vote against. Its just a hope though.

[Shroppie]

I wonder if we'll see Parliament try to impose an automatic application for delay to "no deal" date if a general election is called.

Not sure if that's possible but a safeguard like that is essential.

 

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[Unbelievable Jeff]

Not sure if that's possible but a safeguard like that is essential.

 

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Agreed, no idea.

[buctootim]

 

copied from Twitter. Not my own work

[CB Fry]

Boris I think doing things correctly from his perspective - he has pushed Corbyn into a Remainer position he'll have to defend for the entirety of the election campaign.

 

Boris will then win enough seats to have an majority similar in size to Cameron's in 2015 which will be enough to get through a slightly tweaked deal at the last minute: he won't need to worry anymore about the DUP at all and the swivels much less because he'll have given birth to 30 odd new loyal MPs.

 

And Boris will be able to spin the tweaked withdrawal agreement with a couple of fig leaves to the press and the public who just want an ending to it all.

 

We'll be out with a deal on Oct 31st.

[Batman]

Boris I think doing things correctly from his perspective - he has pushed Corbyn into a Remainer position he'll have to defend for the entirety of the election campaign.

 

Boris will then win enough seats to have an majority similar in size to Cameron's in 2015 which will be enough to get through a slightly tweaked deal at the last minute: he won't need to worry anymore about the DUP at all and the swivels much less because he'll have given birth to 30 odd new loyal MPs.

 

And Boris will be able to spin the tweaked withdrawal agreement with a couple of fig leaves to the press and the public who just want an ending to it all.

 

We'll be out with a deal on Oct 31st.

 

we would be out with a deal on that date had the loons not been trying to block brexit in its entirety

Given how Corbyn has been demanding an election at every opportunity for the last few years, he cannot block an election if offered to him tomorrow night.

 

I think you are right, an election will ultimately see a Tory government with a bigger majority, we will leave and much of this bullsheet we see now from the 'stop the coup' loons will have been a wasted effort

Edited 2 September, 2019 by Batman

[Unbelievable Jeff]

we would be out with a deal on that date had the loons not been trying to block brexit in its entirety

Given how Corbyn has been demanding an election at every opportunity for the last few years, he cannot block an election if offered to him tomorrow night.

 

I think you are right, an election will ultimately see a Tory government with a bigger majority, we will leave and much of this bullsheet we see now from the 'stop the coup' loons will have been a wasted effort

 

The reason May's deal failed was due to Brexiteers in the Tory party though...

[CB Fry]

we would be out with a deal on that date had the loons not been trying to block brexit in its entirety

Given how Corbyn has been demanding an election at every opportunity for the last few years, he cannot block an election if offered to him tomorrow night.

 

I think you are right, an election will ultimately see a Tory government with a bigger majority, we will leave and much of this bullsheet we see now from the 'stop the coup' loons will have been a wasted effort

We'd have been out in March if Francois and Bone and Baker had voted for it then.

[Batman]

We'd have been out in March if Francois and Bone and Baker had voted for it then.

 

either way, we will be leaving IMO

Just a matter of when

 

sooner the better as this cannot continue as is

[Wes Tender]

If you were just a tad brighter you'd realise what Johnson wants is May's deal minus the backstop - ie nearly two more years in the single market and customs union. During those two years he'd negotiate something near identical except in name to those transitional arrangements. But you aren't, so you don't.

 

If you were a little bit brighter, you would have realised that the Norway option wasn't going to happen. But then you weren't that bright, were you? Now you have the arrogance as a Remoaner and a Lib Dumb to claim to know what Boris Johnson wants to happen over Brexit. As a Conservative and a Leaver, I believe that I am more in tune with him than you.

 

Do you want a second chance to have me pay £50 to a Charity of your choice by accepting my bet that your scenario will not take place?

[John B]

If you were a little bit brighter, you would have realised that the Norway option wasn't going to happen. But then you weren't that bright, were you? Now you have the arrogance as a Remoaner and a Lib Dumb to claim to know what Boris Johnson wants to happen over Brexit. As a Conservative and a Leaver, I believe that I am more in tune with him than you.

 

Do you want a second chance to have me pay £50 to a Charity of your choice by accepting my bet that your scenario will not take place?

 

Remind me again what are the Benefits of Brexit as the Pound and Investment falls jobs are being lost and there are concerns about the availability of fresh food and medical supplies

[norwaysaint]

Scanning this thread is utterly ruined by those people who can't discuss it with silly playground insults back and forth. If you have a valid point, discuss and argue it. Why do you need to call everyone who disagrees with you names? Your argument should surely be enough. People will always disagree with you or interpret the data differently. It doesn't make them wrong or stupid, it just means they experience things differently to you and may have different priorities. Live with it. There's an interesting discussion being had by those who stick to the issues. Accept that each side has its merits and challenges and that you've simply chosen the path that you perceive fits you best, not some non-existant "correct" answer.

 

Well done to those managing to rise above it. Your points are coming across far more convincingly.

[aintforever]

I can’t believe we’re going to face another general election, which will effectively just be a choice between a Corbyn government or a no deal Brexit.

 

Greening is spot on over this: [it] is a lose-lose general election for Britain. A far better way of resolving a path forward on Brexit is to give the British people a direct choice between the different options on Brexit themselves, rather than a messy general election which I believe all the evidence suggests, will be yet again, inconclusive in a route forward on Brexit."

 

Chances are we will end up with another hung parliament and absolutely nothing will change with regards to Brexit.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I can’t believe we’re going to face another general election, which will effectively just be a choice between a Corbyn government or a no deal Brexit.

 

Greening is spot on over this: [it] is a lose-lose general election for Britain. A far better way of resolving a path forward on Brexit is to give the British people a direct choice between the different options on Brexit themselves, rather than a messy general election which I believe all the evidence suggests, will be yet again, inconclusive in a route forward on Brexit."

 

Chances are we will end up with another hung parliament and absolutely nothing will change with regards to Brexit.

 

Corbyn wouldn't get into power without a lot of SNP and Lib Dem help - so I don't think Corbyn would end up getting his way that much anyway.

[OldNick]

To a;ll the rabid Brexiteers Id just like to say that you may have just destroyed everything that you beleive in. Reading the FT article on Corbyn and McDonnels vision for Britain sent chills own the spine. By weakening and dividing the UK your actions have opened the door for potentially the governemnt that will destroy the way of life we see now.

The policies are there that will drive any hope of investment out of Britian, it will destroy theCity (60% of our national wealth) steal from shareholders, and will be basically stealing for the state.

Leaving the Eu will also allow them to nationalise many industries, something they would be unable to do now.

You may feel this is knee jerk but when some of you were bragging that they had joined the Labour party so get Corbyn in as their leader I said they were fools, but was told he would never get near No.10, well I suggest he is very close to doing so. You will reap what you sowed and sadly people like myself will also face the same consequences.

I truly hope Im wrong and you can scoff at me,but read the article it was pretty sobering.

[badgerx16]

Which is worse, Corbyn in Downing Street or no-deal Brexit ? Personally I'd prefer to avoid both.

[OldNick]

Which is worse, Corbyn in Downing Street or no-deal Brexit ? Personally I'd prefer to avoid both.

I agree, but we can recover from No deal. The pound is falling on the fear of both and the added scare of Corbyn will really shove it down more. It is carnage and will only get worse. The flow of foreign companies leaving the UK will increase dramatically now I feel. Any company that was borderline whether to stay or leave will IMHO go , they cant afford to wait for the change of government. As in all things there are winners and losers with the change, some I will be very happy to have had an upturn in their lives. Increasing the Minimum wage is of course a double edged sword, the wages go up but of course that means costs and potential inflation taking away any gain and perhaps more for the extra money earned.

I personally dont thing a minimum of anything helps as that is where the employer will start, much like building standards they are at the minimum as that is where they all head rather than grade upwards.

[shurlock]

I agree, but we can recover from No deal. The pound is falling on the fear of both and the added scare of Corbyn will really shove it down more. It is carnage and will only get worse. The flow of foreign companies leaving the UK will increase dramatically now I feel. Any company that was borderline whether to stay or leave will IMHO go , they cant afford to wait for the change of government. As in all things there are winners and losers with the change, some I will be very happy to have had an upturn in their lives. Increasing the Minimum wage is of course a double edged sword, the wages go up but of course that means costs and potential inflation taking away any gain and perhaps more for the extra money earned.

I personally dont thing a minimum of anything helps as that is where the employer will start, much like building standards they are at the minimum as that is where they all head rather than grade upwards.

 

Even though increases in the UK national minimum wage since 1999 have had no real negative employment effects on the UK labour market - despite project fear from economists like Patrick duffer Minford, the Brexiter's go-to economist, who claimed that, at the time of its introduction and at very low levels, the minimum wage would cost over 200,000 jobs.