Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[norwaysaint]

Just think what the effect of 0% import tariffs will be, especially when the EU imposes tariffs on trade going the other way.

 

Not sure which way you're leaning with a comment like this. It's obviously not great for the British economy if it's more expensive for EU countries to buy from UK companies, or good for UK companies if it's cheap to import from abroad. I don't think it will be cheap to import though.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Not sure which way you're leaning with a comment like this. It's obviously not great for the British economy if it's more expensive for EU countries to buy from UK companies, or good for UK companies if it's cheap to import from abroad. I don't think it will be cheap to import though.

 

It won't be cheap to import due to the currency issues. A 0% import tariff is just trying to offset the damage the weak pound has inflicted on those that rely on foreign imports.

 

Essentially the treasury is having to cough up for the difference, although there may be scope for an increase in prices from British companies exporting as the weak pound will obviously help those costs for foreign consumers.

[Batman]

Where have I said people are going to live in the street? People who voted leave in significant parts of England and Wales are going to feel let down if the tax cuts go ahead and more of the post-Brexit wealth (although with tax revenues initially down) gets centralised in and around London and the few public services those areas have decline but tbh that's Boris's problem not mine.

 

As for the references to 1980s and 1970s, it's probably because a) a lot of Leave-voting areas were hit hard by de-industrialisation and all the evidence suggests that they are looking for something very different to what the right wing of the party are salivating over economically and socially. Also, having lived through the 1980s, the UK in the last few years and especially since 2016 feels like it has regressed back there. The political discourse is appalling - UK (Brexit/Tory Party/Momentum), US, that lunatic in Brazil (even worse than Trump) and some of the stuff out of Brussels hasn't been very clever either.

 

Certainly, knuckle draggers sending footballers racist abuse every week/match seems to have come back from the 1980s as well (but via Social Media rather than the Royal Mail). Brexit can't be directly blamed for that (I disagree politely with Jeff about this) but it adds to a sense of society out of control.

 

I don't happen to like it one bit, but some will no doubt (not saying you).

 

You have brought many aspects of history, tied them altogether to fit your own narrative

 

TL;DR

 

You (or any of us) have no idea why people voted for brexit and what will happen down the line

[shurlock]

Yes - insignificant. Exchange rate variations have a much bigger effect. Then there are the handling charges for handling the goods.

 

It’s no good having 0% import tariffs if you’re paying more than 20% extra for your imports. Soon to be 30% and more.

 

Yep not to mention that the average tariff on UK imports is pretty low to begin with – at around 2.8% and there are no guarantees that even these trivial, paltry sums would be passed onto consumers if tariffs were eliminated.

Edited 20 August, 2019 by shurlock

[OldNick]

All the arguments on both sides can be compelling but can anybody suggest a way out of this mess? A way that will heal the wounds and also stop half the nation being resentful of the result?

I fail to see anyway this can happen. If we go back cap in hand the nation will be a laughing stock and the EU will treat us with disdain forever and a day. We really need to strike a deal and get it over with or leave without a deal and rebuild,we cant stay in limbo like this as it is destroying the economy.

[Batman]

All the arguments on both sides can be compelling but can anybody suggest a way out of this mess? A way that will heal the wounds and also stop half the nation being resentful of the result?

I fail to see anyway this can happen. If we go back cap in hand the nation will be a laughing stock and the EU will treat us with disdain forever and a day. We really need to strike a deal and get it over with or leave without a deal and rebuild,we cant stay in limbo like this as it is destroying the economy.

 

Leave is the option. Any other scenario leaves this debate wide open and remain in limbo.

 

A future opposition can campaign to rejoin later on and if the nation wants it, so be it.

[Whitey Grandad]

All the arguments on both sides can be compelling but can anybody suggest a way out of this mess? A way that will heal the wounds and also stop half the nation being resentful of the result?

I fail to see anyway this can happen. If we go back cap in hand the nation will be a laughing stock and the EU will treat us with disdain forever and a day. We really need to strike a deal and get it over with or leave without a deal and rebuild,we cant stay in limbo like this as it is destroying the economy.

We are already a laughing stock. The only sane, rational solution is merely to say that we’ve changed our minds and after careful consideration we have decided to revoke our withdrawal and be good little boys and girls from now on.

 

You are right, the economy is being destroyed as we dither.

[Whitey Grandad]

Leave is the option. Any other scenario leaves this debate wide open and remain in limbo.

 

A future opposition can campaign to rejoin later on and if the nation wants it, so be it.

 

Leaving solves nothing. This debate will intensify as time goes on. Rather than go through all the unnecessary hardships wouldn’t it be better to consult the nation now? It’s much simpler and cheaper to revoke now than rejoin later.

 

I understand your reluctance but you have to realise those who voted Leave were conned and used. Nobody likes to admit to having been conned so they carry on trying to convince themselves that their decision was right all along.

[Batman]

Leaving solves nothing. This debate will intensify as time goes on. Rather than go through all the unnecessary hardships wouldn’t it be better to consult the nation now? It’s much simpler and cheaper to revoke now than rejoin later.

 

I understand your reluctance but you have to realise those who voted Leave were conned and used. Nobody likes to admit to having been conned so they carry on trying to convince themselves that their decision was right all along.

 

You have to realise that those who voted remain were conned and used

 

Easy, just saying stuff as fact for your own narrative.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

All the arguments on both sides can be compelling but can anybody suggest a way out of this mess? A way that will heal the wounds and also stop half the nation being resentful of the result?

I fail to see anyway this can happen. If we go back cap in hand the nation will be a laughing stock and the EU will treat us with disdain forever and a day. We really need to strike a deal and get it over with or leave without a deal and rebuild,we cant stay in limbo like this as it is destroying the economy.

 

We're a laughing stock anyway - the way that Brexit has been dealt with is a ****ing joke, and now we have BoJo as PM. We couldn't be anymore of a laughing stock. At least reneging on article 50 will mean people will actually respect us a bit more as we've now recognised that it is not implementable.

 

Or just go with Theresa's deal. I'll say it again, I don't see what the big issue is with it. We have 3 options on the leave side:

 

1. Leave with no deal, put up hard border in Ireland, contravene GFA.

2. Leave with Theresa's deal, stay in backstop until a solution is defined.

3. Revoke Article 50. Remain in the EU until a solution is defined, then re-trigger article 50.

 

What other options are there?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

You have to realise that those who voted remain were conned and used

 

Easy, just saying stuff as fact for your own narrative.

 

Conned and used for what though?

[shurlock]

Conned and used for what though?

 

The globalists innit.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

The globalists innit.

 

Shhh...don't give him clues.

[Saint WGC]

As someone who voted to leave, I think there are two ways I would like this whole farce to be sorted out so here goes. Before anyone starts on me, I am not at all clued up on Politics so I just voted with my gut instinct as nobody actually came out with a good reason to leave or stay back in 2016.

 

Firstly, and this is purely hypothetical, if we could guarantee the same result, I would like a second referendum where the public could vote again just to see how the remain brigade would then react when the same result happened. There are two schools of thought as to what would happen in a second vote, either lots of people who voted to leave would have been scared off and change their minds and vote to remain but I also wonder whether a lot of people who voted to remain would now say "no this is a democratic country, the people have voted and the result should stand" so would vote to leave as a result.

 

I honestly believe this is not like when we were kids playing cricket with our mates over the field in the summer holidays where you wanted to bat first, lost the toss so said "oh I don't like the result of that, best of three"! Then best of five and so on!

 

My main feeling is that this is something that is never going to unite the country whatever happens so here is my alternative solution (and I repeat that I voted to leave and nothing has changed my mind in the last three years). I think the other option should be that the referendum is scrapped, we carry on as before but every single one of the 650 MP's as well as that idiot Bercow are sacked as they have clearly proved to everyone that they are incompetent and incapable of doing the job they were voted in to do by their constituents. If anyone says "oh but that would be people losing their jobs, I would retort that if any of us did an appalling job and failed to deliver results expected of us, we would lose our jobs so let's bring the MPs into the real world and make them realise they cannot behave like this.

 

We would then need to find 650 new MP's which I admit would be the main problem but at least this might unite the country a little more and appease all of us who voted to leave. If Brexit does not happen, then there should at least be repercussions for the MP's who have all failed this country over the last three years and maybe beyond in some cases.

 

I also believe that when there is an Election and these MP's start waffling on in manifestos and on TV about what they are going to bring in or do just to get our vote, if they fail to deliver on what they promise to do, they should be prosecuted as in my view, it is a form of deception (or bribery if you want another word).

 

This threat might at least stop idle promises being made where they know full well they are unrealistic and probably have no intention of actually following through with them. See I told you I know nothing about politics as I am only too aware that this will never happen lol.

[Sheaf Saint]

You have to realise that those who voted remain were conned and used

 

In what way was I 'conned and used'? Seriously, how can voting to retain membership of an organisation which I know has been overwhelmingly beneficial to me and my country be described as being 'conned and used'?

 

The leave campaign peddled a pack of absolute lies in order to get public support for their ultra-right wing enrichment project, with the promise of 'only positive' benefits of leaving and 'sunlit uplands' having negotiated the easiest deal in history with the EU before triggering Article 50.

 

Three years down the line and it's glaringly obvious that the reality of the situation bears no resemblance whatsoever to the fantasy that was sold in the 2016 referendum. Yet so many people who were taken in by it still cannot or will not accept that they were hoodwinked into voting for a turkey.

 

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain.

 

Never a truer word said.

[badgerx16]

You have to realise that those who voted remain were conned and used

I voted remain, for the status quo, and therefore knew exactly what I was voting for. I assume you voted leave, based on what hard evidence of benefits ?

[shurlock]

Jamie's playing a blinder.

[Batman]

I voted remain, for the status quo, and therefore knew exactly what I was voting for. I assume you voted leave, based on what hard evidence of benefits ?

 

but there would not be the status quo. the EU 10 year ago was different to the EU today

[Batman]

In what way was I 'conned and used'? Seriously, how can voting to retain membership of an organisation which I know has been overwhelmingly beneficial to me and my country be described as being 'conned and used'?

 

The leave campaign peddled a pack of absolute lies in order to get public support for their ultra-right wing enrichment project, with the promise of 'only positive' benefits of leaving and 'sunlit uplands' having negotiated the easiest deal in history with the EU before triggering Article 50.

 

Three years down the line and it's glaringly obvious that the reality of the situation bears no resemblance whatsoever to the fantasy that was sold in the 2016 referendum. Yet so many people who were taken in by it still cannot or will not accept that they were hoodwinked into voting for a turkey.

 

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain.

 

Never a truer word said.

 

700,000 immediate job losses

punishment budget

risk of WW3

immediate housing market crash

immediate recession.

 

all for a vote leave....

 

 

but of course, vote leave were the only lot to lie

[Whitey Grandad]

700,000 immediate job losses

punishment budget

risk of WW3

immediate housing market crash

immediate recession.

 

all for a vote leave....

 

 

but of course, vote leave were the only lot to lie

We haven’t left yet and still we’re going down the pan.

[Whitey Grandad]

You have to realise that those who voted remain were conned and used

 

Easy, just saying stuff as fact for your own narrative.

 

As I said, you don’t like to admit that you were conned.

 

 

Still in denial?

[Batman]

As I said, you don’t like to admit that you were conned.

 

 

Still in denial?

 

that can be said about you. believing in the punishment budget, the immediate recession, the housing market crash, if vote leave won.

 

they lied to you

[whelk]

I can't find anything like that in my messages - however I did find this PM from where I called you out on this before:

 

Feb 2015 - Title: What's your beef internet warrior

 

 

 

April 2015 - Title: ????

 

 

So as you can see, you've been following me around for years and now I don't know what to believe. It seems you're a nasty bully that follows people around until someone calls you out on it, and then you become an apologetic pussy?

 

So which is it, forum enforcer?

 

I probably didn’t think you were such a cnt Simon. Ha although when checking PMs I see you told me you paid £500k for your house. Such a boring sad case

 

Oh and as you want to publish PMs this was no means you wanting to seduce me was it

[whelk]

Lololol

 

You still haven't realised that johnnyboy and me are two different posters?

 

You clearly are a completely different John then John

 

[whelk]

PM means Private Message I thought, therefore I assume that means you are not expected to share them!! Obviously if they are of a threatening or grooming nature then fair game but somebody handing the hand of peace is a bit of a shame that it used to beat someone with.

 

He’s dreadfully insecure. Cars, houses and Brexit.

He tried to groom me but I realised it would have been dangerous as was no doubt a plot with his commie mate John to beat me senseless. I take joy that I have brought them close together though.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I probably didn’t think you were such a cnt Simon. Ha although when checking PMs I see you told me you paid £500k for your house. Such a boring sad case

 

Oh and as you want to publish PMs this was no means you wanting to seduce me was it

 

Jeez man, we've moved on to more important things now. You served your purpose for my boredom, now we're actually discussing **** that matters.

 

I never had you down as someone that could get so rattled though - although I'm sure you're glad to know that your just part of my daily entertainment.

 

:lol:

 

Posted from my Android phone, in the house I paid £500k for.

Edited 20 August, 2019 by Unbelievable Jeff

[stknowle]

We haven’t left yet and still we’re going down the pan.

 

To be fair (and I speak as someone who just wished none of this had ever happened, and we we just remained as the feck we were) Osbourne quite clearly said there would need to be an emergency budget if we voted out. We did. There wasn’t any need.

On the flip side I genuinely think the equally disingenuous £350m a week or whatever it was being poured immediately into the NHS is what tipped the balance in favour of leave.

Conclusion - the people charged with running our country are a bunch of self-serving, untrustworthy, lying c.u.n.t.s

Edited 20 August, 2019 by stknowle
Bull**** nhs figure too low

[doddisalegend]

Jamie's playing a blinder.

it's like watching Moi Elyounoussi struggling against a league one side...

 

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[badgerx16]

but there would not be the status quo. the EU 10 year ago was different to the EU today

The vote wasn't based on the EU 10 years ago, it was based on the EU 3 years ago, modified by Cameron's 'concessions'. We already had opt-outs for certain functions, and stood outside the Schengen and euro zones, and the potential new agreement wouild have kept the UK out of some of the more federalist fancies that were being floated. My vote was cast on the basis of being quite content, and informed, about these circumstances. ( Note, not Osborne's "Project Fear", I treated this propaganda with the same disdain I held for all of the Leave.UK BS ).

I ask again, what concrete promises persuaded you to vote leave ?

Edited 20 August, 2019 by badgerx16

[aintforever]

Three years down the line and it's glaringly obvious that the reality of the situation bears no resemblance whatsoever to the fantasy that was sold in the 2016 referendum.

 

This.

 

There were lies told on both sides, much of project fear was nonsense just like that of the Brexit side. We have a much clearer picture of what Brexit means now than in 2016 even though there is much still to be decided. That’s why a second refurendum is the obvious solution. Let Boris come back with the best deal possible and let the people decide.

 

Or we could just pretend we knew what was being voted for in 2016 and **** our country up to “honour a result”.

[Sheaf Saint]

On the flip side I genuinely think the equally disingenuous £350m a week or whatever it was being poured immediately into the NHS is what tipped the balance in favour of leave.

 

The director of Vote Leave even admitted this himself.

[Batman]

The director of Vote Leave even admitted this himself.

 

lets all agree that both sides lie and will lie in the event of another vote. yes?

[stknowle]

The director of Vote Leave even admitted this himself.

 

It's disgusting. Lying, then admitting it once aim achieved. The best you can hope for from a politician these days is to be honest and useless. Dishonest and useless is the standard though.

[Sheaf Saint]

700,000 immediate job losses

punishment budget

risk of WW3

immediate housing market crash

immediate recession.

 

all for a vote leave....

 

 

but of course, vote leave were the only lot to lie

 

All of these issues were worst case scenario projections. I don't remember anybody seriously saying any of them would definitely happen in the event of a leave vote.

 

And anyway, believe it or not, I didn't vote remain out of fear of what might happen if we left; I voted to remain because I was happy with what we already had and was not in any way convinced by the arguments in favour of leave.

 

Ultimately, nobody actually knew what the actual economic effects would be, so all we had were projections. That's why I based my decision more on social and moral aspects, like environmental protections, worker's rights, scientific cooperation, and the knowledge that my daughter would have the right to live and work anywhere in Europe when she grows up if that's what she chooses.

 

So I won't deny that there were exaggerations and half truths put out by the official remain campaign. But they are dwarfed by the outright, deliberate lies peddled by the leave campaign (£350m for the NHS, Turkey joining the EU etc...), and had no influence whatsoever in my decision to vote the way I did.

[Jonnyboy]

You clearly are a completely different John then John

 

 

Still doesn't explain your pm out of the blue two months ago.

 

Anyway, what's that infraction for? Abusing other forum members no doubt.

[Jonnyboy]

...

[Unbelievable Jeff]

When will they stop with this project fear eh..?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49405270

[Baird of the land]

Not sure whether to laugh or cry at the likes of Ian Holloway.

[shurlock]

Not sure whether to laugh or cry at the likes of Ian Holloway.

 

Sums up this country in a nutshell.

[John B]

To anyone still supporting Brexit what does it take to make you realise you've been sold a total crock of ****?

[Whitey Grandad]

that can be said about you. believing in the punishment budget, the immediate recession, the housing market crash, if vote leave won.

 

they lied to you

 

You don’t (or can’t) understand. It doesn’t matter what any Remain voter believed because Remain didn’t win the vote.

[badgerx16]

Not sure whether to laugh or cry at the likes of Ian Holloway.

Well at least we know why he voted leave - to save English football from those meddling Eurocrats. Funny how Leave.UK didn't pick up on that one, it might have helped push their vote beyond 52%.

[Guided Missile]

Dear Ireland,

 

We forgave you for supporting the Kaiser in WW1, Hitler in WW2 and for murdering so many innocent UK citizens and leaders in recent history. We even helped to bail you out, when you messed up, a couple of years ago.

However, for the collusion with France/Germany over the NI border we do not forgive you. This is a vile land grab and an attempt to imprison us in the EU.

So understand that, when we boycott your products, no longer welcome your citizens to GB for work and have to inspect every one of your shipments, it's entirely personal.

 

Kind Regards

United Kingdom

p.s. Northern Ireland will be given a Freeport status going forwards, with a 5% corporation tax rate. You might need a new economic model.

[Fan The Flames]

Dear Ireland,

 

We forgave you for supporting the Kaiser in WW1, Hitler in WW2 and for murdering so many innocent UK citizens and leaders in recent history. We even helped to bail you out, when you messed up, a couple of years ago.

However, for the collusion with France/Germany over the NI border we do not forgive you. This is a vile land grab and an attempt to imprison us in the EU.

So understand that, when we boycott your products, no longer welcome your citizens to GB for work and have to inspect every one of your shipments, it's entirely personal.

 

Kind Regards

United Kingdom

p.s. Northern Ireland will be given a Freeport status going forwards, with a 5% corporation tax rate. You might need a new economic model.

 

whaaaahahaha, people taking politics so personally, get a life bruv.

[badgerx16]

Dear Ireland,

 

We forgave you for supporting the Kaiser in WW1, Hitler in WW2 and for murdering so many innocent UK citizens and leaders in recent history. We even helped to bail you out, when you messed up, a couple of years ago.

However, for the collusion with France/Germany over the NI border we do not forgive you. This is a vile land grab and an attempt to imprison us in the EU.

So understand that, when we boycott your products, no longer welcome your citizens to GB for work and have to inspect every one of your shipments, it's entirely personal.

 

Kind Regards

United Kingdom

p.s. Northern Ireland will be given a Freeport status going forwards, with a 5% corporation tax rate. You might need a new economic model.

Where is the evidence that Ireland, as part of the UK, supported the Kaiser in WW1, or that Eire, more than 70000 of whose citizens fought in our armed forces and merchant marine, supported Hitler in WW2 ? Perhaps there was an ambivalence, driven by their position as a neutral country with a poor recent history regarding the UK, but what assistance are they supposed to have given to Germany, that measures against the covert aid they provided to us in the form of permitting our aircraft to traverse Irish airspace and supplying weather reports to the RAF and RN.

( Also, throughout WW2 Eire was still a member of the British Commonwealth ).

[Guided Missile]

Where is the evidence that Ireland, as part of the UK, supported the Kaiser in WW1, or that Eire, more than 70000 of whose citizens fought in our armed forces and merchant marine, supported Hitler in WW2 ? Perhaps there was an ambivalence, driven by their position as a neutral country with a poor recent history regarding the UK, but what assistance are they supposed to have given to Germany, that measures against the covert aid they provided to us in the form of permitting our aircraft to traverse Irish airspace and supplying weather reports to the RAF and RN.

( Also, throughout WW2 Eire was still a member of the British Commonwealth ).

 

The Irish government supported the UK in both wars? Yeah, right....

 

Ireland’s first World War veterans: Shunned, ostracised, murdered. Hundreds of thousands of Irish soldiers returned home to a largely hostile country

 

[LGTL]

Dear Ireland,

 

We forgave you for supporting the Kaiser in WW1, Hitler in WW2 and for murdering so many innocent UK citizens and leaders in recent history. We even helped to bail you out, when you messed up, a couple of years ago.

However, for the collusion with France/Germany over the NI border we do not forgive you. This is a vile land grab and an attempt to imprison us in the EU.

So understand that, when we boycott your products, no longer welcome your citizens to GB for work and have to inspect every one of your shipments, it's entirely personal.

 

Kind Regards

United Kingdom

p.s. Northern Ireland will be given a Freeport status going forwards, with a 5% corporation tax rate. You might need a new economic model.

 

Shut up Misselbrook you complete and utter thicko.

[buctootim]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/in-service-to-their-country-moving-tales-of-irishmen-who-fought-in-wwii-350818.html

[badgerx16]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/in-service-to-their-country-moving-tales-of-irishmen-who-fought-in-wwii-350818.html

 

Obviously fake news.

[badgerx16]

The Irish government supported the UK in both wars? Yeah, right....

 

 

 

Where is the support for the Germans, either in manpower, access to facilities and airspace, or intelligence, that balances that given to the UK ?