Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[hypochondriac]

She should be reported for sexism.

 

 

And I'm only half joking really. It's a stupid thing to say, and she should probably resign.

The best bit is how she then got criticised by the type of people who would support these mad ideas because she didn't have any BAME people. She's now apologised for that because somehow that's worse than the blatant sexism and misandry. Heaven forbid you'd propose an all women team to lead the country and not select Diane flipping Abbott!

[sadoldgit]

"Men are just a bit better at getting things done." Why am I not surprised that this sexist generalisation came from hypo?

[hypochondriac]

"Men are just a bit better at getting things done." Why am I not surprised that this sexist generalisation came from hypo?

Oh my god. There aren't enough facepalms for this post. Open mouth, insert fist.

[Batman]

Oh my god. There aren't enough facepalms for this post. Open mouth, insert fist.

 

[hypochondriac]

[emoji38]

"in my experience I have found that generally men have been more able to put aside tribal concerns and build trust more quickly."

[Batman]

"in my experience I have found that generally men have been more able to put aside tribal concerns and build trust more quickly."

 

Soggy will be fuming with that post!

You specified a Man, Man destroyed the 20th century, Hitler was the chief architect in that destruction, Hitler was a man, therefore you are as bad as Hitler

[trousers]

Anyone else see the hypocrisy in Tom Watson not supporting a ‘People Vote’ for indyref2 in Scotland?

Yep. They should be allowed a second vote as the circumstances and education of voters have changed, same as with Brexit.

If we're going to compare these two referendums, wouldn't the consistent thing to do be to enact the result of both? As things stand, only the result of the Scottish separation referendum has been carried through thus far. Edited 12 August, 2019 by trousers

[whelk]

I blame social media for polls on ratings players and other pointless bs people seem to like.

You can’t give the population referenda all the time.

For one they are far too thick and getting thicker, less well read and no attention spans.

[whelk]

Has anyone seen or heard from Lord Pony lately? I fear for this man's blood pressure and overall wellbeing when he reads about this:

 

BBC News - Green MP Caroline Lucas calls for all-female emergency cabinet

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49314840

 

Staggering and laughable.

[whelk]

I doubt it because he's correct. Identity politics and woke culture will harm anyone's popularity, particularly if you are in the Royal family and give the impression you are looking down on everyone else.

 

Only if you are sad enough to read all the hate pieces.

[hypochondriac]

Only if you are sad enough to read all the hate pieces.

Virtue signalling announcements about unconscious bias and having two children to save the planet will be enough for most people. Very little reading required.

[Wade Garrett]

If we're going to compare these two referendums, wouldn't the consistent thing to do be to enact the result of both? As things stand, only the result of the Scottish separation referendum has been carried through thus far.

 

Absolutely. Watson respects the indyref result but not Brexit.

 

Staggering hypocrisy. There was a time when I would have voted Labour if they put a red rosette on a donkey.

 

Unfortunately, they aren’t a party I recognise as standing up for the working man. They’ve been taken over by Momentum, have absolute clowns in charge, and are completely unelectable.

[shurlock]

Has anyone seen or heard from Lord Pony lately? I fear for this man's blood pressure and overall wellbeing when he reads about this:

 

BBC News - Green MP Caroline Lucas calls for all-female emergency cabinet

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49314840

 

 

He probably has rape on his mind and is fantasising about a dream Cabinet of Priti Patel, Nadine Dorries, Liz Truss, Esther McVey and Anne Widdicombe. Proof if you need it that an all-female Cabinet is a totally fatuous idea.

[Wade Garrett]

Proof if you need it that an all-female Cabinet is a totally fatuous idea.

 

Blimey Sherlock, something we agree on.

[shurlock]

Blimey Sherlock, something we agree on.

 

And not the rest of the post?

[badgerx16]

How can a COMRES poll for the Telegraph reporting that 44% of the electorate agree that “Boris needs to deliver Brexit by any means, including suspending parliament if necessary”, become a front page story in the Telegraph stating that "54% of British adults think Parliament should be prorogued to prevent MPs stopping a no-deal Brexit." ?

[Nolan]

How can a COMRES poll reporting that 44% of the electorate agree that “Boris needs to deliver Brexit by any means, including suspending parliament if necessary”, become a front page story stating that "54% of British adults think Parliament should be prorogued to prevent MPs stopping a no-deal Brexit." ?

Because "don't knows" are removed.

 

Ie 54 % of people who bothered to give an answer.

[shurlock]

Because "don't knows" are removed.

 

Ie 54 % of people who bothered to give an answer.

 

Which is disingenuous unless don't knows aren't British adults.

[Nolan]

Had percentages been reversed, I'm sure it would be headline news on TV.

[shurlock]

Had percentages been reversed, I'm sure it would be headline news on TV.

 

What like its headline news every time a new poll shows that a majority would vote remain in a new referendum or a majority regrets the vote to leave the EU? Can't say I've seen much of that pal. Then again I'm living on planet earth.

[Nolan]

What like its headline news every time a new poll shows that a majority would vote remain in a new referendum or a majority regrets the vote to leave the EU? Can't say I've seen much of that pal. Then again I'm living on planet earth.

Just a version of planet earth without Sky News, or BBC Radio 4s today programme apparently.

[Danbert]

Hint. It won't effect the Irish border.

 

How could it not affect the Irish border you utter mong?

[badgerx16]

Because "don't knows" are removed.

 

Ie 54 % of people who bothered to give an answer.

 

So the DT story is deliberately factually incorrect.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

How could it not affect the Irish border you utter mong?

 

I asked him this last week as well - he didn't answer then either.

[aintforever]

Because "don't knows" are removed.

 

Ie 54 % of people who bothered to give an answer.

 

To be fair "don't know" is an answer. Usually the stock Bexiteer answer to any question regarding the Irish border.

[Shroppie]

To be fair "don't know" is an answer. Usually the stock Bexiteer answer to any question regarding the Irish border.

Or any other questions about the actual impact of Brexit, with or without a deal.

 

It doesn't matter. We're taking back control!

 

And to protect a vote that was about preserving our democracy and the sovereignty of our parliament, Johnson is desperately trying to undemocratically circumvent parliament.

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[Guided Missile]

So the DT story is deliberately factually incorrect.

The biggest straw Remainers have clutched at is that the 54 per cent support ComRes found for Mr Johnson proroguing Parliament to deliver Brexit excludes those who responded "don't know" to the question. "It is a bald-faced lie," David Lammy declared on Twitter, "and they know it, excluding 'Don't Knows' to manufacture a response." Other Labour MPs, such as Ben Bradshaw, shared messages dismissing the findings as "very questionable".

 

Yet Mr Bradshaw was only too happy late last year to trumpet a YouGov "study" commissioned by the so-called "People's Vote" campaign that found – after excluding don't knows – most voters in Labour seats wanted another referendum.

 

At the same time, Remainers were gleefully sharing the poll of 20,000 people Channel 4 commissioned from Survation, which found that – once they had excluded don't knows – 54 per cent of those surveyed would vote to stay in the EU. "MPs stop & listen to the real time will of the people", Gina Miller declared, not letting the exclusion of don't knows stop her from treating it as authoritative.

 

It is telling that Remainers never expressed a problem with this standard technique when it was used for surveys which supported their views.

 

It is perfectly legitimate to exclude "don't knows" in order to get a closer sense of what the public thinks, taking the logical assumption that those on the fence fall similarly to those who had already made up their minds.

[Whitey Grandad]

The biggest straw Remainers have clutched at is that the 54 per cent support ComRes found for Mr Johnson proroguing Parliament to deliver Brexit excludes those who responded "don't know" to the question. "It is a bald-faced lie," David Lammy declared on Twitter, "and they know it, excluding 'Don't Knows' to manufacture a response." Other Labour MPs, such as Ben Bradshaw, shared messages dismissing the findings as "very questionable".

 

Yet Mr Bradshaw was only too happy late last year to trumpet a YouGov "study" commissioned by the so-called "People's Vote" campaign that found – after excluding don't knows – most voters in Labour seats wanted another referendum.

 

At the same time, Remainers were gleefully sharing the poll of 20,000 people Channel 4 commissioned from Survation, which found that – once they had excluded don't knows – 54 per cent of those surveyed would vote to stay in the EU. "MPs stop & listen to the real time will of the people", Gina Miller declared, not letting the exclusion of don't knows stop her from treating it as authoritative.

 

It is telling that Remainers never expressed a problem with this standard technique when it was used for surveys which supported their views.

 

It is perfectly legitimate to exclude "don't knows" in order to get a closer sense of what the public thinks, taking the logical assumption that those on the fence fall similarly to those who had already made up their minds.

 

That depends on the total of ‘don’t knows. If 90% were don’t know then the figures are meaningless.

 

Mind you, they’re meaningless anyway.

[shurlock]

The biggest straw Remainers have clutched at is that the 54 per cent support ComRes found for Mr Johnson proroguing Parliament to deliver Brexit excludes those who responded "don't know" to the question. "It is a bald-faced lie," David Lammy declared on Twitter, "and they know it, excluding 'Don't Knows' to manufacture a response." Other Labour MPs, such as Ben Bradshaw, shared messages dismissing the findings as "very questionable".

 

Yet Mr Bradshaw was only too happy late last year to trumpet a YouGov "study" commissioned by the so-called "People's Vote" campaign that found – after excluding don't knows – most voters in Labour seats wanted another referendum.

 

At the same time, Remainers were gleefully sharing the poll of 20,000 people Channel 4 commissioned from Survation, which found that – once they had excluded don't knows – 54 per cent of those surveyed would vote to stay in the EU. "MPs stop & listen to the real time will of the people", Gina Miller declared, not letting the exclusion of don't knows stop her from treating it as authoritative.

 

It is telling that Remainers never expressed a problem with this standard technique when it was used for surveys which supported their views.

 

It is perfectly legitimate to exclude "don't knows" in order to get a closer sense of what the public thinks, taking the logical assumption that those on the fence fall similarly to those who had already made up their minds.

 

Or you can look at this pal

 

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/

 

The don't knows are kept separate so you don't get confused.

 

Keep up

 

FWIW Peter Kellner convincingly demolished the methodology and loaded sequencing of questions in the ComRes poll but that's another story.

[badgerx16]

It is perfectly legitimate to exclude "don't knows" in order to get a closer sense of what the public thinks, taking the logical assumption that those on the fence fall similarly to those who had already made up their minds.

So report it as "54% of those who expressed a definitive opinion" rather than "54% of people questioned". The DT article was a deliberate falsehood intended to promote a particular political opinion, if other polls are similarly misrepresented then those articles are equally mendacious.

[Guided Missile]

So report it as "54% of those who expressed a definitive opinion" rather than "54% of people questioned". The DT article was a deliberate falsehood intended to promote a particular political opinion, if other polls are similarly misrepresented then those articles are equally mendacious.

There was only one poll that counted and you lost. So move on and accept we're leaving. You might become less bitter that way.

[badgerx16]

There was only one poll that counted and you lost. So move on and accept we're leaving. You might become less bitter that way.

 

Take a look at post #8670.

( The only ones coming across as bitter on this thread seem to be the more vociferous Brexiteers ).

 

The point of the DT article was to mislead people into believing that a majority of the electorate support prorogation of Paliament, which they patently do not.

Edited 13 August, 2019 by badgerx16

[doddisalegend]

We can’t say we didn’t know John Bolton was a snake before we took him in

 

Trump’s national security adviser is in Britain to exploit UK weakness for US self-interest and absolutely nothing more.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-us-uk-trade-deal-john-bolton-liz-truss-a9056106.html

 

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[badgerx16]

We can’t say we didn’t know John Bolton was a snake before we took him in

 

Trump’s national security adviser is in Britain to exploit UK weakness for US self-interest and absolutely nothing more.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-us-uk-trade-deal-john-bolton-liz-truss-a9056106.html

 

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

We might as well start learning the words to The Star Spangled Banner, and teaching our school children to recite the pledge of allegiance. But hey, we got our sovereignty back, ( for about 5 minutes ).

Edited 14 August, 2019 by badgerx16

[shurlock]

We might as well start learning the words to The Star Spangler Banner, and teaching our school children to recite the pledge of allegiance. But hey, we got our sovereignty back, ( for about 5 minutes ).

 

Its pretty clear that JJ is a wannabe yank.

[Guided Missile]

Are you serious? This is far worse than 2008. The fall in the world's stockmarkets on Friday was $2,000,000,000,000 .

 

As i just said to Wes, you have no idea of the damage that you have caused.

3 Years Later:

 

Wage growth in the UK reached an 11-year high in the year to June, and the employment rate was its joint highest since 1971, official figures show. Wage growth rose to 3.9%, while the estimated 76.1% employment rate was the best since comparative records began:

 

 

Meanwhile, in Germany:

 

[Batman]

Red Len is now backing the UK to leave on Oct 31st, without a deal if required.

[badgerx16]

Nancy Pelosi again stating that any adverse impact on the Good Friday Agreement would result in a post-Brexit trade deal with the US being blocked.

[Guided Missile]

Red Len is now backing the UK to leave on Oct 31st, without a deal if required.

I enjoyed watching him in action at the last Unite committee meeting:

 

[video=youtube_share;hUBAx8jbYNs]

[Guided Missile]

Nancy Pelosi again stating that any adverse impact on the Good Friday Agreement would result in a post-Brexit trade deal with the US being blocked.

That b!tch should go back to Italy and help sort their problems out, rather than worrying about the Irish...

[shurlock]

3 Years Later:

 

Wage growth in the UK reached an 11-year high in the year to June, and the employment rate was its joint highest since 1971, official figures show. Wage growth rose to 3.9%, while the estimated 76.1% employment rate was the best since comparative records began:

 

 

 

UK productivity levels remain dismal and productivity growth continues to fall -and at the end of the day productivity is the single most important indicator of a country's economic health.

 

Wages have risen and labour markets are tight because companies are terrified of making productivity-enhancing investments (recall above) as a result of Brexit uncertainty. Its far easier to hire and then lay people off than make costly, irreversible commitments in new technology should the s**t hit the fan.

 

So its hardly an unequivocal ringing endorsement but then again you do struggle with complexity.

[badgerx16]

That b!tch should go back to Italy and help sort their problems out, rather than worrying about the Irish...

"SEND THEM BACK!"

( Nancy Pelosi was born in Baltimore, as was her father ).

Edited 14 August, 2019 by badgerx16

[buctootim]

That b!tch should go back to Italy and help sort their problems out, rather than worrying about the Irish...

 

Well she’s American born and bred, so even with Trump fanboy logic, that would be tricky. Would be easier to send you back to Pompey, you already know the culture and fit right in. That or some country that’s on the edge of bankruptcy.

[Guided Missile]

UK productivity levels remain dismal and productivity growth continues to fall -and at the end of the day productivity is the single most important indicator of a country's economic health.

 

Wages have risen and labour markets are tight because companies are terrified of making productivity-enhancing investments (recall above) as a result of Brexit uncertainty. Its far easier to hire and then lay people off than make costly, irreversible commitments in new technology should the s**t hit the fan.

 

So its hardly an unequivocal ringing endorsement but then again you do struggle with complexity.

You seem to struggle with fundamentals, Herbert. Productivity may well be an important indicator of a country's economic health, if that country depends largely on manufacturing like Germany. If like the UK, 80% of the economy is service based, I am struggling with the point of your regular lecture on the basics of economics relating to the UK. Maybe our service based economy is better at avoiding recessions, when there are trade wars, than Germany, whose auto sector has found it "far easier to hire and then lay people off than make costly, irreversible commitments in new technology" such as electric cars.

 

I'd go and have a lie down mate, before you show yourself up again.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

UK productivity levels remain dismal and productivity growth continues to fall -and at the end of the day productivity is the single most important indicator of a country's economic health.

 

Wages have risen and labour markets are tight because companies are terrified of making productivity-enhancing investments (recall above) as a result of Brexit uncertainty. Its far easier to hire and then lay people off than make costly, irreversible commitments in new technology should the s**t hit the fan.

 

So its hardly an unequivocal ringing endorsement but then again you do struggle with complexity.

 

It's not just that, it's also the normalisation of a drop in real wages that had been going down for years. It was always going to right itself as it was artificially low, and as you can see that started at the end of 2014.

 

You can actually see a stall in 2016, when Brexit happened, but it has again slowly grown after that stagnation.

 

I would suggest that had it not been for Brexit, and if we'd have carried on at the same trajectory, we'd have been nearer the £540 mark.

 

The problem with GM, as always, is that he doesn't seem to understand context. He tends to pick up graphs from Brexit Central, or the latest Brexit site du jour, and parrot it back to us. The problem is those websites don't understand economics, and neither does he.

Edited 14 August, 2019 by Unbelievable Jeff

[Unbelievable Jeff]

You seem to struggle with fundamentals, Herbert. Productivity may well be an important indicator of a country's economic health, if that country depends largely on manufacturing like Germany. If like the UK, 80% of the economy is service based, I am struggling with the point of your regular lecture on the basics of economics relating to the UK. Maybe our service based economy is better at avoiding recessions, when there are trade wars, than Germany, whose auto sector has found it "far easier to hire and then lay people off than make costly, irreversible commitments in new technology" such as electric cars.

 

I'd go and have a lie down mate, before you show yourself up again.

 

Your problem is that you only know the fundamentals, and unfortunately with Economics, it is the contributary factors that change the definition of those fundamentals.

 

What you've seen here is correlation, not causation.

Edited 14 August, 2019 by Unbelievable Jeff

[shurlock]

You seem to struggle with fundamentals, Herbert. Productivity may well be an important indicator of a country's economic health, if that country depends largely on manufacturing like Germany. If like the UK, 80% of the economy is service based, I am struggling with the point of your regular lecture on the basics of economics relating to the UK. Maybe our service based economy is better at avoiding recessions, when there are trade wars, than Germany, whose auto sector has found it "far easier to hire and then lay people off than make costly, irreversible commitments in new technology" such as electric cars.

 

I'd go and have a lie down mate, before you show yourself up again.

 

I don’t know where to start with this except to say continue to plumb new depths in brain-addling thickness.

 

Productivity is only an important indicator if you’re a manufacturing-based economy like Germany. That’s a new one. Perhaps you should lecture the BoE, HM Treasury, the great and the good of academia why their single-minded obsession with it is misplaced.

 

:lol:

 

As for the rest of your post about trade wars and recessions it’s incomprehensible.

Edited 14 August, 2019 by shurlock

[benjii]

You seem to struggle with fundamentals, Herbert. Productivity may well be an important indicator of a country's economic health, if that country depends largely on manufacturing like Germany. If like the UK, 80% of the economy is service based, I am struggling with the point of your regular lecture on the basics of economics relating to the UK. Maybe our service based economy is better at avoiding recessions, when there are trade wars, than Germany, whose auto sector has found it "far easier to hire and then lay people off than make costly, irreversible commitments in new technology" such as electric cars.

 

I'd go and have a lie down mate, before you show yourself up again.

 

You know "productivity" doesn't mean "making stuff" in this context, right?

[shurlock]

You know "productivity" doesn't mean "making stuff" in this context, right?

 

[Whitey Grandad]

You know "productivity" doesn't mean "making stuff" in this context, right?

He confuses ‘productivity’ with ‘production’.

 

True, they are both long words and sticking with them to the end requires extreme concentration;)