Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[aintforever]

Brexit now looks nothing like what was promised in 2016.

 

Instead, it’s a costly, job-destroying, rights-threatening , security-endangering, mess.

 

How can anyone say it would be undemocratic to ask the people whether they stil wish to proceed?

 

This. If anything it is more undemocratic to plough ahead regardless and just ignoring the fact that public opinion may well have changed in light of many new facts, especially if it is a Tory No Deal type of Brexit.

[CB Fry]

Oh, it certainly is.

 

Finally can motor on with improving the prospects of the country and our friends around the globe.

 

Its like we've be told to pay up front on the left for years, but finally we get to play in our preferred role of free roaming attacking midfielder.

Brexit means Kevin Gallagher.

[shurlock]

Oh, it certainly is.

 

Finally can motor on with improving the prospects of the country and our friends around the globe.

 

Its like we've be told to pay up front on the left for years, but finally we get to play in our preferred role of free roaming attacking midfielder.

 

Big fan of Boufal pal?

[Jonnyboy]

Funny how the Brexiteers and Corbynites are really rather similar. Rather a lot of noise when not in positions of leadership but when it goes wrong, or the policies have to be more pragmatic, it’s always the EU/media/Tory One Nation/Blairites fault.

 

Don't see how that applies to Corbynites at all.

[Wade Garrett]

Whingeing load of democracy deniers.

 

If Boris has annoyed you lot, then he must be doing something right!

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Whingeing load of democracy deniers.

 

If Boris has annoyed you lot, then he must be doing something right!

 

What's more democratic than having a vote, 3 years after the initial vote, to see what the appetite is for leaving, and the method.

[rallyboy]

It's like we've been stuck playing in that rigid Man City first team all these years and now we've finally got that dream move to be player/manager at Barrow.

[Wes Tender]

What's more democratic than having a vote, 3 years after the initial vote, to see what the appetite is for leaving, and the method.

 

If you don't know, it would be a total waste of time trying to get you to understand.

[Whitey Grandad]

Whingeing load of democracy deniers.

 

If Boris has annoyed you lot, then he must be doing something right!

That was nothing like democratic. For real democracy every voter has to have a similar interest in the result. For some voters the outcome won't make much noticeable difference. For others they lose their livelihoods and all that they've worked for over more than forty years.

 

If you're retired with a guaranteed final salary pension and a nice lifestyle then you can afford to indulge your fantasies.

 

Very selfish.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

If you don't know, it would be a total waste of time trying to get you to understand.

 

In other words, you don't know. If you do, tell me.

[Whitey Grandad]

In other words, you don't know. If you do, tell me.

Democracy means one man, one vote, once only doncha know.

[doddisalegend]

Democracy means one man, one vote, once only doncha know.

 

Democracy means a mere 180,000 people getting to vote on Britain's new PM...

[Faz]

Democracy means a mere 180,000 people getting to vote on Britain's new PM...

 

There has never been an national election to choose a PM. Ever.

[Wes Tender]

In other words, you don't know. If you do, tell me.

 

I refer the dishonourable gentleman (?) to the reply I gave earlier.

[RedArmy]

Democracy means a mere 180,000 people getting to vote on Britain's new PM...

Only 37,000 voted for the previous Prime Minister. Her party got 13.6m votes however.

[Whitey Grandad]

There has never been an national election to choose a PM. Ever.

The leader of the party for whom you're voting is usually known at the time of the vote, along with the deputy leader.

 

When was the last time that there was a leadership contest during a term in office?

[Batman]

Democracy means a mere 180,000 people getting to vote on Britain's new PM...

Apparently , over half of our prime ministers since 1945 have come in between elections

[Weston Super Saint]

The leader of the party for whom you're voting is usually known at the time of the vote, along with the deputy leader.

 

When was the last time that there was a leadership contest during a term in office?

 

The last PM?

[Jonnyboy]

Apparently , over half of our prime ministers since 1945 have come in between elections

 

You weren't saying that when Gordon Brown took over.

[Tamesaint]

Apparently , over half of our prime ministers since 1945 have come in between elections

 

... and only one of these appointees went on to be fully endorsed at the ballot box when they stood for election.

 

Not too promising for Bojo.

Edited 27 July, 2019 by Tamesaint
Added fully. May lost her majority but did stay in power after her visit to the electorate.

[Whitey Grandad]

The last PM?

True.

 

And also not true. It wasn't actually a contest and she did hold a GE very soon after her takeover.

[Wade Garrett]

That was nothing like democratic. For real democracy every voter has to have a similar interest in the result. For some voters the outcome won't make much noticeable difference. For others they lose their livelihoods and all that they've worked for over more than forty years.

 

If you're retired with a guaranteed final salary pension and a nice lifestyle then you can afford to indulge your fantasies.

 

Very selfish.

 

Bullsh*t.

[Whitey Grandad]

Bullsh*t.

 

Not only selfish but ignorant too.

 

Did you have a counter-argument or have you just run out of words?

[badgerx16]

I see that JRM has issued an edict on words and phrases that his staff should not use, and that they must use Imperial measures. I wonder how the tea boy is going to manage when asked to go out to buy a pint of milk and a pound of sugar, and pay for it in shillings and pence.

[RedArmy]

I see that JRM has issued an edict on words and phrases that his staff should not use, and that they must use Imperial measures. I wonder how the tea boy is going to manage when asked to go out to buy a pint of milk and a pound of sugar, and pay for it in shillings and pence.

Milk is still sold by the pint and shillings have absolutely nothing to with the imperial and metric systems you blithering idiot.

[badgerx16]

Milk is still sold by the pint and shillings have absolutely nothing to with the imperial and metric systems you blithering idiot.

Oooh, get her ! Ok, take out the pint of milk and replace with sending the driver to put gallons of fuel in the tank of the departmental car.

 

It's just indicative of the regression to the halcyon days of the 1950's that JRM yearns for.

Edited 27 July, 2019 by badgerx16

[RedArmy]

Oooh, get her ! Ok, take out the pint of milk and replace with sending the driver to put gallons of fuel in the tank of the departmental car.

 

It's just indicative of the regression to the halcyon days of the 1950's that JRM yearns for.

Maybe on the way they’ll get a speeding ticket because they’ll misinterpret our speed limits and start doing 30 mp/h in a 30 km/h zone.

 

Or not.

[badgerx16]

Maybe on the way they’ll get a speeding ticket because they’ll misinterpret our speed limits and start doing 30 mp/h in a 30 km/h zone.

Given that JRM dresses like an undertaker leading a hearse, I don't think they'll even be that quick

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I refer the dishonourable gentleman (?) to the reply I gave earlier.

 

Can you link it please? I don't remember seeing one so not sure I believe you - you are a notorious liar on this thread after all.

[Wade Garrett]

Not only selfish but ignorant too.

 

Did you have a counter-argument or have you just run out of words?

 

You don’t think the biggest democratic exercise in this country wasn’t democratic because you didn’t get the result you wanted. Just like the rest of the whingers.

 

I’m sure if we got relegated last season, the remainers would demand the season was played again.

[Whitey Grandad]

You don’t think the biggest democratic exercise in this country wasn’t democratic because you didn’t get the result you wanted. Just like the rest of the whingers.

 

I’m sure if we got relegated last season, the remainers would demand the season was played again.

You obviously didn't read what I wrote.

 

Besides, more people voted in the 1992 General Election. Another Brexit myth demolished.

[whelk]

You don’t think the biggest democratic exercise in this country wasn’t democratic because you didn’t get the result you wanted. Just like the rest of the whingers.

 

I’m sure if we got relegated last season, the remainers would demand the season was played again.

 

Great analogy, I can tell you are really smart.

[aintforever]

You don’t think the biggest democratic exercise in this country wasn’t democratic because you didn’t get the result you wanted. Just like the rest of the whingers.

 

I’m sure if we got relegated last season, the remainers would demand the season was played again.

 

You do understand that if the people of the UK still want to leave the EU a second refurendum would not stop that happening?

 

Not sure what you are so scared of.

[badgerx16]

Just like the rest of the whingers.

If you think Remainers are whingers, just wait a couple of years for all the little Brexit piggies to start squealing that the Land of Milk and Honey they voted for has turned out to be pure illusion.

[Whitey Grandad]

If you think Remainers are whingers, just wait a couple of years for all the little Brexit piggies to start squealing that the Land of Milk and Honey they voted for has turned out to be pure illusion.

They were all conned and used for personal political ambitions.

 

Nobody likes to admit to being conned or used so they pretend that this is what they wanted all along.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

They were all conned and used for personal political ambitions.

 

Nobody likes to admit to being conned or used so they pretend that this is what they wanted all along.

 

Absolutely, that's why they're all doubling down on the "we don't care if we all get poorer, we hamstring our children and their ambitions, our standard of life decreases and people die, cos we'd hate to say we were taken in by the biggest con the country has ever known".

[Unbelievable Jeff]

They were all conned and used for personal political ambitions.

 

Nobody likes to admit to being conned or used so they pretend that this is what they wanted all along.

 

Double post

[Weston Super Saint]

Absolutely, that's why they're all doubling down on the "we don't care if we all get poorer, we hamstring our children and their ambitions, our standard of life decreases and people die, cos we'd hate to say we were taken in by the biggest con the country has ever known".

 

Melodramatic!

[scotty]

Genuine question for those still arguing for remaining.

 

 

Are you sufficiently in favour of our remaining in the EU that you would give up the opt outs negotiated for the UK in the Maastricht treaty? Schengen, Freedom, justice and security, and economic/monetary union? (obviously, blair gave up the social chapter opt out as soon as elected.)

[badgerx16]

Genuine question for those still arguing for remaining.

 

 

Are you sufficiently in favour of our remaining in the EU that you would give up the opt outs negotiated for the UK in the Maastricht treaty? Schengen, Freedom, justice and security, and economic/monetary union? (obviously, blair gave up the social chapter opt out as soon as elected.)

Why would we ? I think the status quo is the best option. However, I am broadly in favour of Schengen, and am not afraid of much of the broader European "project", although the implementation at the moment is flawed. We have so much more common interest with continental Europe to turn our backs on it in a hissy fit born of yearning for a past that can never be recovered. ( And what "Freedom" are you referring to ? ).

[Whitey Grandad]

Melodramatic!

Don't you think that people will die in Northern Ireland?

[Whitey Grandad]

Genuine question for those still arguing for remaining.

 

 

Are you sufficiently in favour of our remaining in the EU that you would give up the opt outs negotiated for the UK in the Maastricht treaty? Schengen, Freedom, justice and security, and economic/monetary union? (obviously, blair gave up the social chapter opt out as soon as elected.)

If we revoke then we keep these opt outs.

 

Personally I have no problem with Schengen but we would need to introduce ID cards and start to enforce the already existing limits on the movement of EU citizens.

 

I have always been in favour of the Euro and it would open up a new range of selling opportunities. I regard it as one big missed opportunity.

 

We've got a good deal at the moment. I can't imagine a better one.

 

Would I be in favour of joining under higher costs? Yes I would, but it should be remembered that there are valid reasons for our reduced contributions.

[scotty]

If we revoke then we keep these opt outs.

 

Personally I have no problem with Schengen but we would need to introduce ID cards and start to enforce the already existing limits on the movement of EU citizens.

 

I have always been in favour of the Euro and it would open up a new range of selling opportunities. I regard it as one big missed opportunity.

 

We've got a good deal at the moment. I can't imagine a better one.

 

Would I be in favour of joining under higher costs? Yes I would, but it should be remembered that there are valid reasons for our reduced contributions.

 

Well, you've immediately identified the two problems I have with remaining. Compulsory id cards and joining the euro are absolute anathemas to me, and, I suspect, most of the British public in the case of at least one of those issues.

 

And I wouldn't be so sure of keeping those opt outs should we revoke. There was an article quite recently, by Sean O'Grady for the Independent, which argued quite persuasively that in the case of revoking article 50 our euro zone opt out would be "renegotiated", which to my mind means "withdrawn".

[Whitey Grandad]

Well, you've immediately identified the two problems I have with remaining. Compulsory id cards and joining the euro are absolute anathemas to me, and, I suspect, most of the British public in the case of at least one of those issues.

 

And I wouldn't be so sure of keeping those opt outs should we revoke. There was an article quite recently, by Sean O'Grady for the Independent, which argued quite persuasively that in the case of revoking article 50 our euro zone opt out would be "renegotiated", which to my mind means "withdrawn".

From what I have read revoking is unilateral provided that it is decide within our usual constitutional procedures. Wasn’t that the judgement of the European Court?

 

ID cards are only necessary as part of the migration restrictions that would be politically necessary following a Tory backtrack.

[buctootim]

Well, you've immediately identified the two problems I have with remaining. Compulsory id cards and joining the euro are absolute anathemas to me, and, I suspect, most of the British public in the case of at least one of those issues.

 

And I wouldn't be so sure of keeping those opt outs should we revoke. There was an article quite recently, by Sean O'Grady for the Independent, which argued quite persuasively that in the case of revoking article 50 our euro zone opt out would be "renegotiated", which to my mind means "withdrawn".

 

25 years ago I would have agreed with you about ID cards, now it’s a non issue. We can all be tracked by mobiles, card use, electoral register etc. We have to produce ID when applying for a job, mortgage or buying anything on credit. The police can hold anybody until they’ve proved their identity. The privacy issue is over anyway so you might as well have a handy fit in the wallet ID. My Dutch gf never uses her passport when she visits, just turns up with her ID card. There is no real downside and it would things like dealing with illegal immigrants, health tourists etc much easier.

[Wade Garrett]

F*cking load of whiney undemocratic cry babies .

 

You could always f*ck off and get an EU passport from somewhere over there if you think it’s so great.

 

Cue the vitriol from the usual suspects.

[buctootim]

F*cking load of whiney undemocratic cry babies ��.

 

 

Cue the vitriol from the usual suspects.

 

Irony not your thing huh?

 

The forum hard man cometh. All hail the tongue chewer.

[whelk]

F*cking load of whiney undemocratic cry babies .

 

You could always f*ck off and get an EU passport from somewhere over there if you think it’s so great.

 

Cue the vitriol from the usual suspects.

 

Mate you sound like you need to be outside parliament yelling traitors and getting yourself all worked up with the other sad little cnts.

[badgerx16]

F*cking load of whiney undemocratic cry babies .

 

You could always f*ck off and get an EU passport from somewhere over there if you think it’s so great.

 

Cue the vitriol from the usual suspects.

May I suggest you partake of a nice calming cup of herbal tea.

[Wade Garrett]

Should have included sarcasm.

 

Didn’t let me down on the abuse though.