Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I voted the other week.

 

who do we think will win this (pointless) election?

 

Clearly Brexit party.

[Batman]

Clearly Brexit party.

 

interesting. Another vote regarding the EU and "brexit" will romp home this time.

Either way, what a mess this has become.

 

How long before MPs defect to the Brexit Party?

CHUK or what ever they are* have set the precedent on that front.

 

 

*an utter irrelevance is what they are

Edited 23 May, 2019 by Batman

[Window Cleaner]

interesting. Another vote regarding the EU and "brexit" will romp home this time.

Either way, what a mess this has become.

 

How long before MPs defect to the Brexit Party?

CHUK or what ever they are* have set the precedent on that front.

 

 

*an utter irrelevance is what they are

 

 

Well at least you don't have to choose, amongst others, between the Animal Lovers Party and The Decent, Law Abiding Muslims Party.

In France there are 34 parties in the ballot, including 3 or 4 different nationalist groups, at least three ecologist groups, various shades of socialism and never socialism etc. Most of them don't even have any posters to put up and it's rumoured that some can't even afford to print their ballot papers.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I voted the other week.

 

who do we think will win this (pointless) election?

 

Clearly Brexit party.

[aintforever]

Remain supporters are not anti-democratic. They just accept that given a change in pertinent knowledge, people are able, and should be given the opportunity, to change their minds.

Why are entrenched Brexiteers so afraid of a rerun ?

 

A second referendum has been the most obvious way forward for ages now, the whole thing could have already been done and dusted. Parliament is clearly not fit for purpose with all the red v blue nonsense.

 

A simple vote with two questions would have sorted it out. 1. Leave or remain? 2. In the event of leave - Withdrawal agreement or WTO?

[Wes Tender]

Remain supporters are not anti-democratic. They just accept that given a change in pertinent knowledge, people are able, and should be given the opportunity, to change their minds.

Why are entrenched Brexiteers so afraid of a rerun ?

 

Of course it's anti-democratic to ignore the result of a referendum, especially when the result of it it hasn't even been enacted yet. You're all a load of hypocrites, because you certainly wouldn't have accepted any arguments that there should be a further referendum had your lot won.

 

You, Jeff, Shurlock, Timmy, not a democrat among you. Suck it up as the pro-democracy party in these EU elections romps away with a big majority.

[Window Cleaner]

A second referendum has been the most obvious way forward for ages now, the whole thing could have already been done and dusted. Parliament is clearly not fit for purpose with all the red v blue nonsense.

 

A simple vote with two questions would have sorted it out. 1. Leave or remain? 2. In the event of leave - Withdrawal agreement or WTO?

 

But the final decision has to be with the House of Commons since Gina Miller's victory in the High Court. Don't see how another referendum would change that. You've already had one with the result of 52-48 for leave. Evidently the MPs have shown themselves capable of not respecting the will of the people once, no reason to assume that they wouldn't do it again.

So the ballot would have to contain some sort of clause about leaving with or without a deal. Cos the "deal" will never suit all the MPs necessary. Me personally I'd let the Scots wander off and do whatever it is they think they want to do and have done with their 40 or 50 whatever it is votes against anything they don't agree with. Scottish Nationalists should not have the right to decide the future of the rest of the UK.

Edited 23 May, 2019 by Window Cleaner

[aintforever]

But the final decision has to be with the House of Commons since Gina Miller's victory in the High Court. Don't see how another referendum would change that. You've already had one with the result of 52-48 for leave. Evidently the MPs have shown themselves capable of not respecting the will of the people once, no reason to assume that they wouldn't do it again.

So the ballot would have to contain some sort of clause about leaving with or without a deal. Cos the "deal" will never suit all the MPs necessary. Me personally I'd let the Scots wander off and do whatever it is they think they want to do and have done with their 40 or 50 whatever it is votes against anything they don't agree with. Scottist Nationalists should not have the right to decide the future of the rest of the UK.

 

Surely the House of Commons final decision could be a legally binding confirmatory vote?

[Window Cleaner]

Surely the House of Commons final decision could be a legally binding confirmatory vote?

 

But only if the terms of the referendum included leaving without a deal without fail. Otherwise there will always be opponents.

Perhaps voting in another referendum should be manadatory as well. £50 fine for not voting or something. Then the result would be more definitive.

Edited 23 May, 2019 by Window Cleaner

[badgerx16]

Of course it's anti-democratic to ignore the result of a referendum, especially when the result of it it hasn't even been enacted yet. You're all a load of hypocrites, because you certainly wouldn't have accepted any arguments that there should be a further referendum had your lot won.

 

You, Jeff, Shurlock, Timmy, not a democrat among you. Suck it up as the pro-democracy party in these EU elections romps away with a big majority.

 

Oh dear Wes, I have consistently said that whilst I think Brexit would be bad for the country, that the result of the referendum, once it had been legitimised, should have stood, and that having voted to leave we should simply leave. That is democracy. The whole balls-up subsequently should never have happened, especially the pointless 2017 General Election. My position on a potential second public vote is perhaps hope over expectation, but if a 'second chance' to produce my preferred outcome were offered, I would welcome it.

 

I again ask the question, why are you so afraid of a second vote ?

[moonraker]

Today's poll will almost certainly see the BREXIT (party) Limited gain the most votes and MEPS. However if the combined popular vote for Remain parties equals or exceeds the combined popular vote of the right wing nasty parties I will be happy. Votes for the Tories and Labour can be discounted as both will have remainers and leavers voting for them, because many the rump who do vote for them today will never vote for anyone else no matter what was at stake party before country. Farages BREXIT (party) Limited is down to his base support, what is so disappointing is that means about a third of the people in our country are racist, nationalistic and bigoted.

[edprice1984]

A second vote should always be seen as the last resort. We are now very close to this being the case.

 

The problem with the deal (and probably any deal) is that it is a compromise and therefore pleases no-one. At least with a binary WTO v Remain vote, everyone would know the position. If a 2nd ref is called however, the Remain side need to do a better job of extolling the virtues of the EU rather than simply scare the s*** out of people about WTO No deal etc.

 

I expect that the Brexit party will win the biggest share of the votes today, but 'Remain' parties - Greens, Lib-Dems, Change, SNP and Plaid will be equal them with their combined percentage - the great unknown is how Labour will fare. In strong remain areas they may do quite well; in the Leave constituencies (particularly in the North) they are probably going to struggle. Conservatives will finish 5th or 6th overall.

[Whitey Grandad]

Of course it's anti-democratic to ignore the result of a referendum, especially when the result of it it hasn't even been enacted yet. You're all a load of hypocrites, because you certainly wouldn't have accepted any arguments that there should be a further referendum had your lot won.

 

You, Jeff, Shurlock, Timmy, not a democrat among you. Suck it up as the pro-democracy party in these EU elections romps away with a big majority.

 

It wasn't that sort of a referendum, nothing mandatory about it, and there is no requirement for any vote to be implemented either nor anything to preclude holding another subsequent vote. That's a fundamental point of British Parliamentary democracy. No Parliament can bind a successor.

[Wes Tender]

Oh dear Wes, I have consistently said that whilst I think Brexit would be bad for the country, that the result of the referendum, once it had been legitimised, should have stood, and that having voted to leave we should simply leave. That is democracy. The whole balls-up subsequently should never have happened, especially the pointless 2017 General Election. My position on a potential second public vote is perhaps hope over expectation, but if a 'second chance' to produce my preferred outcome were offered, I would welcome it.

 

I again ask the question, why are you so afraid of a second vote ?

 

You maintain that you thought that the Referendum vote should be respected and then in the next breath you want it rerun. You seem to be a bit confused. As I said, you are not a democrat. The whole balls up has happened because people like you, Shurlock, Jeff and Timmy and other remoaners on here have their equivalents in Parliament who cannot bring themselves to respect the wish of their constituents and deliver Brexit, so they have fought to delay it at every stage in the hope that pressure would grow to drop it, or think again.

 

80% of the electorate who voted in the 2017 GE, voted for parties who pledged to honour the referendum decision.

 

Regarding your fantasy of a second/third vote, what would the question be? Remain cannot be on the ballot, as that had already been defeated, so I suggest leave on Mays "deal", or leave on WTO terms. Sounds fair enough, doesn't it? No doubt you not being a democrat, would like to have remain, May's deal or WTO, so that the leave vote is conveniently split by an establishment stitch-up.

 

But there will be no rerun of the Referendum, as it has already been decided, promises having been made beforehand that the result would be respected, a simple majority being all that is required.

[Wes Tender]

It wasn't that sort of a referendum, nothing mandatory about it, and there is no requirement for any vote to be implemented either nor anything to preclude holding another subsequent vote. That's a fundamental point of British Parliamentary democracy. No Parliament can bind a successor.

 

Ah, sorry, Whitey. You are obviously upset that I omitted you from the list of anti-democrats, so you felt the need to establish your credentials. You don't seem to know the difference between the obligations placed on Parliament by a referendum, as distinct from legislation during a Parliamentary term. If during a General Election a party put it in its manifesto that they would hold another referendum on the issue, making clear what the ballot questions would be, then fair enough. If the current Parliament, mostly elected on a manifesto pledge to honour the referendum decision decided to hold a rerun before that decision had even been implemented, then that is clearly anti-democratic.

[Wes Tender]

Farages BREXIT (party) Limited is down to his base support, what is so disappointing is that means about a third of the people in our country are racist, nationalistic and bigoted.

 

You forgot thick. You're slipping.

 

And then you wonder why the Brexit voters are deserting the mainstream parties and joining the Brexit Party in their droves. Closer to 40% currently, and it's all thanks to the likes of you. Well done.

[shurlock]

You maintain that you thought that the Referendum vote should be respected and then in the next breath you want it rerun. You seem to be a bit confused. As I said, you are not a democrat. The whole balls up has happened because people like you, Shurlock, Jeff and Timmy and other remoaners on here have their equivalents in Parliament who cannot bring themselves to respect the wish of their constituents and deliver Brexit, so they have fought to delay it at every stage in the hope that pressure would grow to drop it, or think again.

 

80% of the electorate who voted in the 2017 GE, voted for parties who pledged to honour the referendum decision.

 

Regarding your fantasy of a second/third vote, what would the question be? Remain cannot be on the ballot, as that had already been defeated, so I suggest leave on Mays "deal", or leave on WTO terms. Sounds fair enough, doesn't it? No doubt you not being a democrat, would like to have remain, May's deal or WTO, so that the leave vote is conveniently split by an establishment stitch-up.

 

But there will be no rerun of the Referendum, as it has already been decided, promises having been made beforehand that the result would be respected, a simple majority being all that is required.

 

Les, Labour rejected a no-deal/WTO Brexit in its manifesto, so perhaps you should stop quoting the 80% figure and reading into the referendum and GE results the type of extreme Brexit that only swivels like you support.

[benjii]

I think the answer is quite simple.

 

Draw a few lines around somewhere in the UK. Not in one of the knee-capping, bomby parts but in some unmissed area with a lot of leavers (the north, or suchlike).

 

We then construct a hard border around that area and declare it independent. Anyone who wants to Brexit can **** off to that part and everyone else can get on with their lives.

 

Democratic, fair and forward-thinking. #votebenjii

[badgerx16]

You maintain that you thought that the Referendum vote should be respected and then in the next breath you want it rerun. You seem to be a bit confused. As I said, you are not a democrat. The whole balls up has happened because people like you, Shurlock, Jeff and Timmy and other remoaners on here have their equivalents in Parliament who cannot bring themselves to respect the wish of their constituents and deliver Brexit, so they have fought to delay it at every stage in the hope that pressure would grow to drop it, or think again.

 

80% of the electorate who voted in the 2017 GE, voted for parties who pledged to honour the referendum decision.

 

Regarding your fantasy of a second/third vote, what would the question be? Remain cannot be on the ballot, as that had already been defeated, so I suggest leave on Mays "deal", or leave on WTO terms. Sounds fair enough, doesn't it? No doubt you not being a democrat, would like to have remain, May's deal or WTO, so that the leave vote is conveniently split by an establishment stitch-up.

 

But there will be no rerun of the Referendum, as it has already been decided, promises having been made beforehand that the result would be respected, a simple majority being all that is required.

What happened in your formative years to produce such a bitter personality ?

[badgerx16]

 

But there will be no rerun of the Referendum........

 

Worth a "cheeky insurance bet" ?

[shurlock]

Worth a "cheeky insurance bet" ?

 

Both Les and Jihadi John got it spectacularly wrong - they told us we’d be out on March 29. When JJ wasn’t stockpiling piano wire, he was furiously claiming that any other outcome was a constitutional impossibility. So yeh given their track record, maybe worth their while placing a cheeky insurance bet.

[Batman]

Today's poll will almost certainly see the BREXIT (party) Limited gain the most votes and MEPS. However if the combined popular vote for Remain parties equals or exceeds the combined popular vote of the right wing nasty parties I will be happy. Votes for the Tories and Labour can be discounted as both will have remainers and leavers voting for them, because many the rump who do vote for them today will never vote for anyone else no matter what was at stake party before country. Farages BREXIT (party) Limited is down to his base support, what is so disappointing is that means about a third of the people in our country are racist, nationalistic and bigoted.

LOL

[badgerx16]

Wes, remember this ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681

There could be unstoppable demand for a re-run of the EU referendum if Remain wins by a narrow margin on 23 June, UKIP leader Nigel Farage has said.

"In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it."

[trousers]

But there will be no rerun of the Referendum

 

I agree with Wes; there should be no rerun of the 2016 referendum. There should be a new/different referendum.

 

(Any danger that this agreeing with each other malarkey might catch on in Saintsweb land? )

Edited 23 May, 2019 by trousers

[Wes Tender]

Les, Labour rejected a no-deal/WTO Brexit in its manifesto, so perhaps you should stop quoting the 80% figure and reading into the referendum and GE results the type of extreme Brexit that only swivels like you support.

 

Labour pledged to honour the referendum decision, so leave voters felt safe in voting for them, believing that they were would honour that commitment. They now realise that they were duped and many will be voting for The Brexit Party to punish them. As far as I know, nowhere did they mention anything about a second/third referendum in that manifesto, but no doubt you will correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

A clean Brexit on WTO terms is now the most popular outcome with the electorate, despite the Remoaner media claiming that it will be a disaster, so the swivels are now in a majority. Sit and weep

[Wes Tender]

Wes, remember this ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681

There could be unstoppable demand for a re-run of the EU referendum if Remain wins by a narrow margin on 23 June, UKIP leader Nigel Farage has said.

"In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it."

 

So what would satisfy you anti-democrats? Best of three? Best of five? We leavers have had to endure over 40 years of EEC/EU membership before being allowed a further referendum, but you Remoaners wanted another one literally months after the last one and before we had even left.

[shurlock]

Labour pledged to honour the referendum decision, so leave voters felt safe in voting for them, believing that they were would honour that commitment. They now realise that they were duped and many will be voting for The Brexit Party to punish them. As far as I know, nowhere did they mention anything about a second/third referendum in that manifesto, but no doubt you will correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

A clean Brexit on WTO terms is now the most popular outcome with the electorate, despite the Remoaner media claiming that it will be a disaster, so the swivels are now in a majority. Sit and weep

 

Yes and honouring the referendum result is compatible with a variety of outcomes - hence why a Brexiteer like Michael Gove could happily vote for the WA. I too would support it if it ensured some form of closure and exit from this mess. The problem is that this doesn’t satisfy your narrow and arguably undemocratic vision of Brexit, even though it was soundly rejected by the Labour manifesto which you’re now attempting to invoke as support for your position. Next time I hope you exercise a bit more care and honesty in your statements pal.

[Whitey Grandad]

Labour pledged to honour the referendum decision, so leave voters felt safe in voting for them, believing that they were would honour that commitment. They now realise that they were duped and many will be voting for The Brexit Party to punish them. As far as I know, nowhere did they mention anything about a second/third referendum in that manifesto, but no doubt you will correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

A clean Brexit on WTO terms is now the most popular outcome with the electorate, despite the Remoaner media claiming that it will be a disaster, so the swivels are now in a majority. Sit and weep

 

The Tory manifesto promised “a smooth, orderly Brexit” and “a deep and special partnership” with the EU. Labour pledged “retaining the benefits” of the single market and customs union. (David Smith, The Times)

 

A WTO Brexit (no such thing) would be an unmitigated disaster. No claiming necessary. If anybody says otherwise then they are a bigger fool than they would appear.

[Wes Tender]

You two don't seem to realise that because the two main parties made these vacuous promises and haven't delivered on them, they are getting the kicking they deserve from the electorate.

[badgerx16]

So what would satisfy you anti-democrats? Best of three? Best of five? We leavers have had to endure over 40 years of EEC/EU membership before being allowed a further referendum, but you Remoaners wanted another one literally months after the last one and before we had even left.

 

So, was Farage being anti-democratic in saying exactly the same thing ?

 

PS: why are you afraid of a rerun ?

[whelk]

Those elected Brexit cnts won’t hang around getting every freebie and expense claim going.

[whelk]

Probably first vote I have missed when in the country. And I tell the kids how important it is but can’t be arsed today.

[buctootim]

Probably first vote I have missed when in the country. And I tell the kids how important it is but can’t be arsed today.

 

Opposite for me. Don’t normally bother with the euro or local elections but will tonight

[buctootim]

[Batman]

If only people didn't get sucked into project fear that never ever happened.

[shurlock]

#jamiebingo

[buctootim]

Australia has mandatory voting. It would be really interesting to see some projections on how that would affect voting patterns in the UK - given the old tend to vote in larger numbers than the young and the young tends to be more liberal leaning.

[Plastic]

A clean Brexit on WTO terms is now the most popular outcome with the electorate, despite the Remoaner media claiming that it will be a disaster, so the swivels are now in a majority. Sit and weep

 

Strong words, backed by a gilded pension no doubt.

[hypochondriac]

Australia has mandatory voting. It would be really interesting to see some projections on how that would affect voting patterns in the UK - given the old tend to vote in larger numbers than the young and the young tends to be more liberal leaning.

That hasn't seemed to make the Australian vote more Liberal.

[hypochondriac]

Anyone hear any unofficial whispers from exit polls?

[scotty]

That hasn't seemed to make the Australian vote more Liberal.

 

 

:thumbup:

[scotty]

Anyone hear any unofficial whispers from exit polls?

 

I don't think there were any, were there?

[hypochondriac]

I don't think there were any, were there?

I thought they have some info they just can't release it until Sunday night.

[LGTL]

What happened in your formative years to produce such a bitter personality ?

 

Nothing except far easier access to jobs, a gold plated final salary pension, massive % increase in house prices... Anyone over the age of 55 who isn't absolutely loaded needs to take a look at themselves.

 

Anyway, at least we've all democratically voted for those UNELECTED EURO BUREAUCRATS.

[Window Cleaner]

I thought they have some info they just can't release it until Sunday night.

 

And yet the first exit poll estimation in the Dutch EU elections were all over the French press 10 minutes after the polls closed. Whether they're anywhere near accurate who knows. Thing is there the "good guys" seem to have done pretty well, unexpectedly well actually and the baddies of the extreme right less well than predicted.

[Guided Missile]

Great News....

 

[buctootim]

That hasn't seemed to make the Australian vote more Liberal.

 

Thats the point though. Culturally much of Australia reminds me of the southern states in the US but politically their Governments aren't generally Trump like

Edited 24 May, 2019 by buctootim

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Great News....

 

 

Surely not - it means we're going to have an unelected leader of the country? Let's see if you can recognise the irony in this...

[Wes Tender]

Great News....

 

 

Finally the Maybot has recognised that she is far beyond her sell-by date. Good riddance to the worst PM this country has ever had, weak, indecisive, duplicitous, incapable, uncharismatic and totally inept.

[hypochondriac]

The new pm is going to have the same trouble that May had. General election is an inevitability I would imagine.