Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Johnny Bognor]

Whatever comes out of Brexit, and whoever gets into power next, this is what they have to tackle urgently: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47853444

 

It's the top 1% who are pushing Brexit and slamming the door down onto people that want to be socially mobile, and have been over the last 30-40 years, what Thatcher and Blair would have called 'strivers'.

 

It'll require global action on tax havens and policies on multinationals contributing to infrastructure, much better to do that in close partnership with the EU. The other option is Corbyn, and we want to improve economic mobility, not destroy it entirely like he and his Marxists would.

 

Let's be clear: A trade deal with America under Trump = end of the NHS as the health insurance companies want freedom in that market. A gross betrayal of the 2016 vote with the lie that some of the £350m payments to the EU would go to the NHS. That's the real betrayal of democracy.

 

To be fair, the health systems are private across Europe. We would be more likely to have to fall into line with them and privatise, as part of the EU. At least outside it, we have some control.

 

Healthcare is a national competence, not the remit of the EU. Right? Yes and No. Rulings from the European Court of Justice, and the European Commission’s policies of recent years, mean that “Services delivered by national health systems are, as a rule, now considered as an economic activity”.1 For a long time, member states argued healthcare is not an economic activity, as most providers do not intend to make a profit.2 But its treatment as one means EU rules on the internal market (free movement of goods, persons, capital and services), public procurement and state aid, in principle apply to healthcare services.

https://www.sochealth.co.uk/2017/07/04/creeping-privatisation-healthcare/

[shurlock]

To be fair, the health systems are private across Europe. We would be more likely to have to fall into line with them and privatise, as part of the EU. At least outside it, we have some control.

 

Healthcare is a national competence, not the remit of the EU. Right? Yes and No. Rulings from the European Court of Justice, and the European Commission’s policies of recent years, mean that “Services delivered by national health systems are, as a rule, now considered as an economic activity”.1 For a long time, member states argued healthcare is not an economic activity, as most providers do not intend to make a profit.2 But its treatment as one means EU rules on the internal market (free movement of goods, persons, capital and services), public procurement and state aid, in principle apply to healthcare services.

https://www.sochealth.co.uk/2017/07/04/creeping-privatisation-healthcare/

 

The socialist healthcare association. Welcome back Balders

[Portugalsaint]

We pay 4.50euro to see the Doctor, which I think is a good idea. You pay even if you are on benefits here. We pay 1.20 for an X-ray. You pay a maximum of 44 euro for a CT scan this is on the NHS here. Dental work is 50 euro for a visit. Fillings are 50 euro and root canal 150euros. Drugs are not free, even over the age of 60. Kids pay as well. Personally, I think it’s fair as everyone pays. If you are a patient in hospital all drugs and food etc are free. Operations are free, it’s just the build up. You can of course go private, personally I wouldn’t, it’s not the same as the UK. I feel safer the NHS way here than private.

 

Also, and just for your interest, you have to pay for your kids books, writing and reading books, pens, pencils etc at school. No wastage opposed to the enormous wastage in British schools.

 

The Portuguese NHS system is above the UK in world rankings. I understand the German system is even better.

[Johnny Bognor]

The socialist healthcare association. Welcome back Balders

 

They're one of your own, thought you'd like it :lol::lol:

[CB Fry]

That can't be true, what about all those MPs that are 'lapping up' her deal? Gobble, gobble gobble?

Boris, Mogg, Davis and plenty of others have lapped it up, gobbled it up, swallowed it big. You missed that?

 

If the remaining ERGers want to stand firm then I for one support every last one them. Personally I think its brilliant because my original prediction had us exiting on March 29th. Frankly I couldn't foresee those utter spanners who have campaigned for Brexit for. their. entire. lives. voting to stop it happening. But they effing did.

 

Delighted delighted, delighted to be wrong.

 

In fact, I'm gobbling it up. Yum yum yum yum yum.

[Portugalsaint]

The socialist healthcare association. Welcome back Balders

 

implementation of austerity “in Greece, Ireland, Latvia, Portugal and Spain, where mass cuts and hospital privatisations have taken place, has resulted in an upsurge in infectious diseases, including HIV, and suicides

 

I don’t know who writes some of this crap but honestly.....not in Portugal’s name please.

[colehillsaint]

I'm sympathetic to your perspective but you overstate the distinction between what you call 'humanists' and 'nationalists' (not sure about the labels). Its quite possible to hold multiple identities simultaneously without feeling threatened or having to choose one side over the other. Read a bit of Amartya Sen (Identity and Violence).

 

I will check that out. Cheers.

[colehillsaint]

Excellent and thoughtful post. I have two points that I would like to make:

1. Democracy won and always should.
   
2. Shangri-la is never around the next corner.
   

 

Thanks. We agree on two.

 

As I hope, a reasonable person, I have really struggled with the idea of overturning a democratic vote. This is against the unsettling feeling that more than ever before massive sections of society are starting to be manipulated by fairly underhand tactics on social media etc.

 

Unfortunately I think we are fairly programme-able. The ultimate argument for the EU now for me is that it is probably the single body likely to be big enough and sufficiently independent to threaten big tech interests, before things take a long term turn for the worse. If I had the power, and intent, to take control, in that way, I would look at the EU, and it would be the first thing to take out. Perhaps we just have to throw ourselves at the mercy of the new digital order, and hope they mean well, as per Carol Cadwalladers entreaties?

Edited 18 April, 2019 by colehillsaint

[Portugalsaint]

Ha silly Swiss maybe they should have spoken to the UK on how to run a referendum properly...

 

Switzerland's highest court overturns referendum as voters were poorly informed in country first

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/switzerland-referendum-result-overturn-supreme-court-brexit-eu-vote-a8866131.html

 

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

 

Switzerland is not in the EU so their Own Court is the highest whereas ours is the European Courts of Justice a reason why Brexiteers wanted to get away.

 

 

Switzerland ignores EU deadline for treaty

After four years of hard-fought negotiations, Switzerland has shrugged off a deadline for a treaty with the EU. It is concerned that freedom of movement requirements will flood the wealthy country with low-wage labor.

 

Schweiz Val Bondasca (Imago/imagebroker)

Switzerland stalled on a key trade and border deal with the European Union on Friday, ignoring a final deadline on the hard-fought agreement.

 

The EU had hoped to sign the deal by December, but Switzerland has now backtracked and wants to push back further negotiation until the spring of 2019.

Read more: Swiss feel Brussels' Brexit Bern

What the deal is: The deal is meant to provide a framework for the 120 bilateral accords the non-EU member holds with the bloc. The draft text focuses on five areas: free movement of people, aviation, land transport, mutual recognition of industrial standards and processed farm goods. Under the treaty, the Swiss would routinely adopt EU single market rules and provide a more effective system for resolving disputes. The deal has been negotiated over the past four years and Friday was the deadline to sign.

Why Switzerland won't sign: The Swiss said they have ongoing concerns about the deal. Unresolved issues mainly relate to protecting the Swiss labor market against cheap foreign labor. The deal has faced pressure from the nationalist People's Party and from trade unions, which are both worried the deal could lower Switzerland's high wage levels and grant EU citizens additional welfare rights in Switzerland.

What the EU says: "We would like to make crystal clear that the final agreement text published today, including annex and protocols, was agreed by the EU and Swiss negotiators and is the result of long, intense and constructive negotiations," the EU executive body said. The European Commission said it "respects the will of the Federal Council to consult all the parties concerned" but called for "speedy" negotiations. It said the draft treaty was the best deal possible.

Read more: EU Customs Union, Single Market, Brexit — What you need to know

What now: Brussels has warned it will take a hard line on economic links unless Bern agrees to its major demands. The EU has threatened to not renew the "equivalence" status of the Swiss stock exchange, which allows EU-based trading platforms to buy and sell Swiss stocks. This would give the Swiss exchange a huge hit from trade volume losses. In retaliation, Switzerland has warned it will withdraw aid from eastern Europe and has made moves to bolster its exchanges. Apart from such moves, if talks fail, the current sectoral accords will stay in effect but relations would suffer badly and there will be no increase in Swiss access to the single market.

The Brexit curveball: The talks have been complicated by the EU's negotiations on Brexit, with the Commission wary of going easy on the Swiss for fear of providing ammunition to Brexiteers. Meanwhile, many Swiss are happy to wait and see what sort of deal the British can extract for themselves out of the EU.

[Jonnyboy]

Whatever comes out of Brexit, and whoever gets into power next, this is what they have to tackle urgently: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47853444

 

It's the top 1% who are pushing Brexit and slamming the door down onto people that want to be socially mobile, and have been over the last 30-40 years, what Thatcher and Blair would have called 'strivers'.

 

It'll require global action on tax havens and policies on multinationals contributing to infrastructure, much better to do that in close partnership with the EU. The other option is Corbyn, and we want to improve economic mobility, not destroy it entirely like he and his Marxists would.

 

Let's be clear: A trade deal with America under Trump = end of the NHS as the health insurance companies want freedom in that market. A gross betrayal of the 2016 vote with the lie that some of the £350m payments to the EU would go to the NHS. That's the real betrayal of democracy.

 

Nailed it.

[whelk]

Nailed it.

 

Fallen out of love with Jezza?

[shurlock]

Switzerland is not in the EU so their Own Court is the highest whereas ours is the European Courts of Justice a reason why Brexiteers wanted to get away.

 

Switzerland ignores EU deadline for treaty

After four years of hard-fought negotiations, Switzerland has shrugged off a deadline for a treaty with the EU. It is concerned that freedom of movement requirements will flood the wealthy country with low-wage labor.

 

Schweiz Val Bondasca (Imago/imagebroker)

Switzerland stalled on a key trade and border deal with the European Union on Friday, ignoring a final deadline on the hard-fought agreement.

 

The EU had hoped to sign the deal by December, but Switzerland has now backtracked and wants to push back further negotiation until the spring of 2019.

Read more: Swiss feel Brussels' Brexit Bern

What the deal is: The deal is meant to provide a framework for the 120 bilateral accords the non-EU member holds with the bloc. The draft text focuses on five areas: free movement of people, aviation, land transport, mutual recognition of industrial standards and processed farm goods. Under the treaty, the Swiss would routinely adopt EU single market rules and provide a more effective system for resolving disputes. The deal has been negotiated over the past four years and Friday was the deadline to sign.

Why Switzerland won't sign: The Swiss said they have ongoing concerns about the deal. Unresolved issues mainly relate to protecting the Swiss labor market against cheap foreign labor. The deal has faced pressure from the nationalist People's Party and from trade unions, which are both worried the deal could lower Switzerland's high wage levels and grant EU citizens additional welfare rights in Switzerland.

What the EU says: "We would like to make crystal clear that the final agreement text published today, including annex and protocols, was agreed by the EU and Swiss negotiators and is the result of long, intense and constructive negotiations," the EU executive body said. The European Commission said it "respects the will of the Federal Council to consult all the parties concerned" but called for "speedy" negotiations. It said the draft treaty was the best deal possible.

Read more: EU Customs Union, Single Market, Brexit — What you need to know

What now: Brussels has warned it will take a hard line on economic links unless Bern agrees to its major demands. The EU has threatened to not renew the "equivalence" status of the Swiss stock exchange, which allows EU-based trading platforms to buy and sell Swiss stocks. This would give the Swiss exchange a huge hit from trade volume losses. In retaliation, Switzerland has warned it will withdraw aid from eastern Europe and has made moves to bolster its exchanges. Apart from such moves, if talks fail, the current sectoral accords will stay in effect but relations would suffer badly and there will be no increase in Swiss access to the single market.

The Brexit curveball: The talks have been complicated by the EU's negotiations on Brexit, with the Commission wary of going easy on the Swiss for fear of providing ammunition to Brexiteers. Meanwhile, many Swiss are happy to wait and see what sort of deal the British can extract for themselves out of the EU.

 

Wrong. The ECJ is only relevant regarding member states’ compliance with EU treaties, their interpretation of EU law and decisions on the legality of EU institutions. It has no jurisdiction beyond that.

[Portugalsaint]

Shurlock

the above just proves my point which is whether you are in or out there is enough trash on the internet to give those who pour over to chew and spit out the deluge of junk found whether in or out. There is no proof as to what will happen if Brexit occurs as it’s an unknown quantity. Anyone can make a guess and there is enough info to fright the living daylights out of remainers but, on the other hand there is enough written to show the good that might happen. At the end of the day, every person must vote for what they think is correct in their owns minds and the class system that is so prelevant in the Uk has now resulted to who has a degree and who doesn’t. I have written enough on this subject.

 

i got the above from a European website, but, I cannot tell you which one ....sorry.

[Jonnyboy]

Fallen out of love with Jezza?

 

As Jeremy says, Brexit is about the haves and the have-nots.

[Winnersaint]

Here's another thing that the top few % use to their advantage, the education system. Around 7% of children are privately educated, rising to around 15% post 16. Now you might not have an issue with that in itself but a closer look reveals a fundamental difference in the exam systems available in both sectors. It's all to do with the performance league tables which are the blight of the state system and occurs at both GCSE and A Level. A Levels and GCSE's were reformed in between 2102 and 2014 at the behest of the then Education Secretary Michael Gove. The idea was to 'raise standards' increase rigour and eliminate what the government saw as the 'cheaters charter' afforded by coursework. Come 2016 and students in state schools began studying these new and very much more demanding specifications. As ever there was loophole iGCSEs and CIE (Cambridge International Examinations) A Levels. The purpose of iGCSEs and CIE A Levels was to offer a UK accredited qualification for students in International Schools and those studying in parts of Africa, the Caribbean and Indian sub-continent. Trouble is these have been taken to offer an easier route through exams at 16 and 18 than Gove's new super exams and were widely taken up by fee paying schools. For a while some state schools adopted them as well. However now they are no longer accredited as a bone-fide GCSE qualification.............................For state schools that is, as they no longer count towards a school's performance targets! As a result state schools offering these dropped them. Meanwhile the fee paying sector are free to continue to offer iGCSEs and CIE A Levels as their system of accountability does not involve performance targets in the same way. In essence most privately educated children have an easier route through exams than those in the state sector, where this really becomes important is at A Level which in turn impacts on university entry. I am a self employed private tutor and have worked with young people in CIE, iGCSE, AQA, OCR, Edexcel geography courses, so am well placed to see the differences. Here are a couple of examples. The first is from a recent iGCSE paper and is worth 7 marks, the highest tariff question candidates need to answer. The main difference is in the command word. Describe in the iGCSE question and 'to what extent' in the AQA one. They require one to simply regurgitate what they know while the other has to engage in a written discursive argument

The second is from AQA GCSE 1-9 Paper 2 sat in June last year and is the highest tariff question on the urban section of the paper. This is worth 9 marks.

 

Most urban areas experience traffic problems.

For an urban area you have studied, describe the strategies which have been used to reduce

traffic congestion.

Name of urban area ......................................................

 

To what extent has urban change created environmental challenges in a UK city you have studied.

 

So which one do people think is harder, and is the system of accountability in education fair? One rule for those with money and the rest can go hang!!

[benjii]

Here's another thing that the top few % use to their advantage, the education system. Around 7% of children are privately educated, rising to around 15% post 16. Now you might not have an issue with that in itself but a closer look reveals a fundamental difference in the exam systems available in both sectors. It's all to do with the performance league tables which are the blight of the state system and occurs at both GCSE and A Level. A Levels and GCSE's were reformed in between 2102 and 2014 at the behest of the then Education Secretary Michael Gove. The idea was to 'raise standards' increase rigour and eliminate what the government saw as the 'cheaters charter' afforded by coursework. Come 2016 and students in state schools began studying these new and very much more demanding specifications. As ever there was loophole iGCSEs and CIE (Cambridge International Examinations) A Levels. The purpose of iGCSEs and CIE A Levels was to offer a UK accredited qualification for students in International Schools and those studying in parts of Africa, the Caribbean and Indian sub-continent. Trouble is these have been taken to offer an easier route through exams at 16 and 18 than Gove's new super exams and were widely taken up by fee paying schools. For a while some state schools adopted them as well. However now they are no longer accredited as a bone-fide GCSE qualification.............................For state schools that is, as they no longer count towards a school's performance targets! As a result state schools offering these dropped them. Meanwhile the fee paying sector are free to continue to offer iGCSEs and CIE A Levels as their system of accountability does not involve performance targets in the same way. In essence most privately educated children have an easier route through exams than those in the state sector, where this really becomes important is at A Level which in turn impacts on university entry. I am a self employed private tutor and have worked with young people in CIE, iGCSE, AQA, OCR, Edexcel geography courses, so am well placed to see the differences. Here are a couple of examples. The first is from a recent iGCSE paper and is worth 7 marks, the highest tariff question candidates need to answer. The main difference is in the command word. Describe in the iGCSE question and 'to what extent' in the AQA one. They require one to simply regurgitate what they know while the other has to engage in a written discursive argument

The second is from AQA GCSE 1-9 Paper 2 sat in June last year and is the highest tariff question on the urban section of the paper. This is worth 9 marks.

 

Most urban areas experience traffic problems.

For an urban area you have studied, describe the strategies which have been used to reduce

traffic congestion.

Name of urban area ......................................................

 

To what extent has urban change created environmental challenges in a UK city you have studied.

 

So which one do people think is harder, and is the system of accountability in education fair? One rule for those with money and the rest can go hang!!

 

Is this true? Smells a bit like a badly-formatted copy and paste from some hyper-partisan echo chamber.

 

When I went to private school we did:

 

- more subjects than my state school friends (I did 12 GCSEs, most of them did about 9)

- proper subjects (I did Chemistry, Biology, Physics, two languages, humanities etc. - my state school mates did "science", "food tech", "PE" etc.)

- an Additional Maths GCE (this was based on an old O-Level course and much of my maths A-Level the next year replicated it, which led me to believe that subjects certainly had been dumbed-down over time).

 

So, in a nutshell, I did harder exams and more of them. Obviously I had better resources available and was surrounded by a culture of expected attainment, rather than one which treats a "C" as something good, so I did have those advantages.

 

I would be surprised if good private schools are taking notably easier GCSE courses as a strategy. There have always been some differences between the various exam boards from year to year.

 

Further, a lot of private sixth forms nowadays offer the International Baccalaureate, which is generally considered to be more challenging than A-Levels.

 

P.s. why is this on the Brexit thread?

Edited 21 April, 2019 by benjii

[benjii]

Anyway, I am pleased with the renewed impetus and the material progress that has been made since the extension was agreed. We're really rattling through those issues now.

[benjii]

Could GM's much-heralded collapse of Deutsche Bank be getting nearer.... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/21/greece-to-ask-germany-for-billions-in-war-reparations ?

[buctootim]

Could GM's much-heralded collapse of Deutsche Bank be getting nearer.... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/21/greece-to-ask-germany-for-billions-in-war-reparations ?

 

Yeah but then Greece would be debt free and his other collapse prediction would evaporate. Choices choices. Poor GM. .

[badgerx16]

Teresa May says that there is no reason why the UK cannot leave the EU well before the new October deadline.......,..once MPs have agreed to pass the "deal" that they have already rejected 3 times.

[doddisalegend]

So how many forum members marched in this one?

 

Campaigners march through Southampton over Brexit frustrations

 

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/17603046.campaigners-march-through-southampton-over-brexit-frustrations/

[saint1977]

So how many forum members marched in this one?

 

Campaigners march through Southampton over Brexit frustrations

 

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/17603046.campaigners-march-through-southampton-over-brexit-frustrations/

 

Doesn't look like there was many of anybody there, let alone this forum.

[shurlock]

Doesn't look like there was many of anybody there, let alone this forum.

 

I thought Les attended?

[ecuk268]

Doesn't look like there was many of anybody there, let alone this forum.

 

Those on this forum should have been at the Bournemouth game rather than fannying around in town.

[Cabbage_Face]

So how many forum members marched in this one?

 

Campaigners march through Southampton over Brexit frustrations

 

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/17603046.campaigners-march-through-southampton-over-brexit-frustrations/

 

Shurlock was there. CONFIRMED

[Manuel]

So how many forum members marched in this one?

 

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/17603046.campaigners-march-through-southampton-over-brexit-frustrations/

 

52% of forum members marched. I hear that a few want to march again though as they didn't properly understand what they were doing first time around.

[Hockey_saint]

Those on this forum should have been at the Bournemouth game rather than fannying around in town.

 

On the money this one!.......Kim Rose or whoever's on the remain side, I bet neither were worth hearing compared to facing the begging bowl boverers.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

So then, where to now?

[badgerx16]

So then, where to now?

She has stuck a spoon into the dog's breakfast, given it a stir, and served it up as something new. It will be rejected, again, and then it will be "no deal", which Parliament has already said is unacceptable, or revoke A50. The diversion of the EU elections will throw some bile, hate, and spite into the debate, May will be replaced, but I don't think that we will leave this side of a hastily arranged GE.

[buctootim]

There was commentator on tv last night saying any new PM will need some kind of mandate for such a constitutional change - either a general election or a referendum. Since a new PM wouldn't want to risk their position in the top job by having a GE then a referendum becomes more likely when May goes. .

[shurlock]

During PMQs just now, Mark Francois has pointed to the press gallery, shaking his head and run his finger along his throat like a knife. Good lad.

[Whitey Grandad]

During PMQs just now, Mark Francois has pointed to the press gallery, shaking his head and run his finger along his throat like a knife. Good lad.

 

Disgraceful.

 

And stupid. One way not to guarantee a sympathetic write-up.

[Wes Tender]

Disgraceful.

 

And stupid. One way not to guarantee a sympathetic write-up.

 

You're not going to be so naive as to believe that the Remoaner media would give Brexit supporting MPs a sympathetic write-up under any circumstances, surely? Let alone in defending our servicemen from prosecution for their actions during the troubles in Northern Ireland?

 

The more unsympathetic they are to prominent Brexiteers, the more support the Leave vote receives, so carry on dissing them, please.

[shurlock]

Excited Les?

 

Edited 22 May, 2019 by shurlock

[Wes Tender]

Excited Les?

 

Yes. Can't wait for tomorrow. I feel like a kid on Christmas Eve.

 

I bet that you're looking forward to the EU Election result too, eh? Who will you be voting for? Change UK? The Greens? Lib Dumbs? Surely not Labour.

[badgerx16]

Yes. Can't wait for tomorrow. I feel like a kid on Christmas Eve.

Expecting far more than will ever be delivered.

[Ziggy]

I vote in the West Midlands and a certain Rupert Lowe is top of the Brexit Party list.

[Wes Tender]

Expecting far more than will ever be delivered.

 

I'm sad for you that your parents' offerings never lived up to your expectations.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I'm sad for you that your parents' offerings never lived up to your expectations.

 

How you doing Les? You've been missed. x

[saint1977]

Excited Les?

 

 

Nigel really should wipe his face properly after giving Aaron and Vladimir a personal thank you

[badgerx16]

I'm sad for you that your parents' offerings never lived up to your expectations.

I'm sad for you, based on your posting history on this thread, and that Brexit is likely to never live up to your expectations.

[Wes Tender]

I'm sad for you, based on your posting history on this thread, and that Brexit is likely to never live up to your expectations.

 

I'm a patient sort of guy. After all, I've waited for us to leave since Maastricht. We will eventually leave properly, May's imminent departure will be another step in that direction.

For a bit of fun, let's have some indication of which way all you Remoaner anti-democrats voted today

[Window Cleaner]

I'm a patient sort of guy. After all, I've waited for us to leave since Maastricht. We will eventually leave properly, May's imminent departure will be another step in that direction.

For a bit of fun, let's have some indication of which way all you Remoaner anti-democrats voted today

 

Really? Right now I'd say that the UK's chance of actually leaving the EU is about 30/70. The people may want to leave but the parliamentarians don't. That's why Gina Miller's court action has probably sounded the death knell for Brexit.

Edited 23 May, 2019 by Window Cleaner

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I'm a patient sort of guy. After all, I've waited for us to leave since Maastricht. We will eventually leave properly, May's imminent departure will be another step in that direction.

For a bit of fun, let's have some indication of which way all you Remoaner anti-democrats voted today

 

Haven't voted yet - haven't decided TBH. Probs Lib Dems, or Greens.

 

Doesn't really matter though - we'll see loads of people voting for a racist, enabled by racists, because that's what the country is nowadays. Be interesting to see the split though, those voting right, and those voting racist.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Really? Right now I'd say that the UK's chance of actually leaving the EU is about 30/70. The people may want to leave but the parliamentarians don't. That's why Gina Miller's court action has probably sounded the death knell for Brexit.

 

He was going to come back and gloat on the 29th March, so I really wouldn't trust in any of Wes's predictions - they've been pretty bad so far.

[benjii]

Come on then..... May or Leadsom?

 

If you HAD to.

[Window Cleaner]

Come on then..... May or Leadsom?

 

If you HAD to.

 

Definitely Leadsom, looks like a bit of a goer (can I still say that!!)

[badgerx16]

For a bit of fun, let's have some indication of which way all you Remoaner anti-democrats voted today

Remain supporters are not anti-democratic. They just accept that given a change in pertinent knowledge, people are able, and should be given the opportunity, to change their minds.

Why are entrenched Brexiteers so afraid of a rerun ?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Remain supporters are not anti-democratic. They just accept that given a change in pertinent knowledge, people are able, and should be given the opportunity, to change their minds.

Why are entrenched Brexiteers so afraid of a rerun ?

 

It's actually the absolute opposite of anti-democratic...

[Batman]

I voted the other week.

 

who do we think will win this (pointless) election?