Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Verbal]

Good graphic Jeffrey. Pity it doesn't show the damage already done. Inward investment down 20% since the referendum, and 25% in manufacturing, which mean that large parts of the economy are freewheeling to a halt. Manufacturing output actually shrank last quarter - and the expectation is that the same will happen this quarter, which means we'll be in a manufacturing recession.

 

Then there's are the small matter of the very small growth we're managing even now. A staggering 1.1% of the 1.4% growth is accounted for by increased consumer debt. That is plainly unsustainable.

[Highfield Saint]

Corbyn has more chance of winning an election then Rees-Mogg.

 

Both are entirely unelectable IMO.

 

and neither would be part of a mainstream party in any other 1st world democracy. One is so far left and the other would be FN in France or AFD in Germany

[Highfield Saint]

Don't tell them that, they getting all excited over it

 

 

Will be in news on Monday that its reached 2 million at long last

 

 

Just ticked over the 3 million figure...

[Nordic Saint]

Although it doesn't seem to get mentioned much nowadays, immigration, especially of non-white ethnic groups, was the key issue behind the Brexit vote. Having just returned from the Netherlands, I was amazed how much the ethnic makeup of that country is determined by its colonial history rather than its EU membership. The population is very largely, white Dutch and the main minority groups you see are Indonesian and Surinamese. Black people are a rarity as the Netherlands never had African colonies. In the school groups I saw, there were far fewer black faces than you'd have seen in England before we joined the EU. Most were all white Dutch.

 

It made me realize how much this applies to the UK too. We have a large muslim population because the British Empire included what is now Pakistan and a large black population because of our colonial history in the Caribbean and Africa. In reality, leaving the EU will probably have no significant effect on the ethnic makeup of this country, although we might lose some of the workers from Poland who do poorly paid jobs in farming and residential care homes. We'll probably have to attract their replacements from our former colonies.

[doddisalegend]

I would favour an increase in MP salaries to something like £350k p.a., provided exploitation of expenses is curtailed. Build / lease a block of serviced apartments in London available for free use.

 

The job's much more important than many jobs which command salaries much higher than the current MP salary.

 

It's clear that the current system is broken and attracts an unacceptably high number of weirdos, the over-privileged, and under-skilled / under intelligent zealots.

 

Make it more aspirational for more normal but capable people and drag it away from these unrepresentative losers. The party system is also unhelpful.

I'd make their pay performance related. In fact government have been perfecting the perfect system in education for years.

 

MPs can be regularly checked by Ofsted and classed as outstanding, requires improvement or failing.

 

It would work particularly well for government dock the pay of the transport secretary if a train is late or the health secretary if anyone has to wait to see a doctor etc etc..

 

 

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[doddisalegend]

Although it doesn't seem to get mentioned much nowadays, immigration, especially of non-white ethnic groups, was the key issue behind the Brexit vote. Having just returned from the Netherlands, I was amazed how much the ethnic makeup of that country is determined by its colonial history rather than its EU membership. The population is very largely, white Dutch and the main minority groups you see are Indonesian and Surinamese. Black people are a rarity as the Netherlands never had African colonies. In the school groups I saw, there were far fewer black faces than you'd have seen in England before we joined the EU. Most were all white Dutch.

 

It made me realize how much this applies to the UK too. We have a large muslim population because the British Empire included what is now Pakistan and a large black population because of our colonial history in the Caribbean and Africa. In reality, leaving the EU will probably have no significant effect on the ethnic makeup of this country, although we might lose some of the workers from Poland who do poorly paid jobs in farming and residential care homes. We'll probably have to attract their replacements from our former colonies.

The Dutch very much did have African colonies it's where the Afrikaner of South Africa originated from.

 

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[aintforever]

Although it doesn't seem to get mentioned much nowadays, immigration, especially of non-white ethnic groups, was the key issue behind the Brexit vote.

 

Think that is nonsense, it was EU immigration that was obviously the main issue.

 

And to be fair, since EU immigration has fallen after the Brexit vote average wages have gone up: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/sep/11/unexpected-rise-uk-pay-growth-jobless-total-40-year-low

Edited 22 March, 2019 by aintforever

[Nordic Saint]

I'd make their pay performance related. In fact government have been perfecting the perfect system in education for years.

 

MPs can be regularly checked by Ofsted and classed as outstanding, requires improvement or failing.

 

It would work particularly well for government dock the pay of the transport secretary if a train is late or the health secretary if anyone has to wait to see a doctor etc etc..

 

 

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That would mean the people taking back control from Downing Street and that's never going to happen, as they wouldn't allow it to. If we leave the EU, there will be even fewer checks on their power. A handful of individuals, namely the PM and his/her cabinet, will be able to do whatever they like with the country and that is going to mean looking after themselves.

[doddisalegend]

Think that is nonsense, it was EU immigration that was obviously the main issue.

 

And to be fair, since EU immigration has fallen after the Brexit vote average wages have gone up: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/sep/11/unexpected-rise-uk-pay-growth-jobless-total-40-year-low

I think it's fair to say plenty of leaver voters didn't make the distinction between bloke from Poland, France or Spain and bloke from Syria, Pakistan or Kenya....

 

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[Nordic Saint]

The Dutch very much did have African colonies it's where the Afrikaner of South Africa originated from.

 

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

 

But Britain won control of the country during the Napoleonic Wars and the remaining Dutch settlers lost the Boer War a very long time ago so South Africa was very much part of the British Empire. The only people who speak Afrikaans are descendants of white settlers and it's possible some of them may have moved to the Netherlands in recent years but you wouldn't notice them as an ethnic minority on the streets.

 

As I said, I was amazed how few black people you see in the Netherlands. I expected that it would have become much more ethnically diverse because of the EU but it really hasn't.

[Sheaf Saint]

I think it's fair to say plenty of leaver voters didn't make the distinction between bloke from Poland, France or Spain and bloke from Syria, Pakistan or Kenya....

 

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

 

Anecdotal evidence shows this to be quite true.

 

I remember watching some TV interviews with 'the man in the street' after the result, asking what was the primary reason they voted why they did. One guy said "to stop bus-loads of Muslims coming into the country every day". When it was pointed out to him that exiting the EU would have no influence on immigration from outside the EU, he looked genuinely confused.

[Batman]

Anecdotal evidence shows this to be quite true.

 

I remember watching some TV interviews with 'the man in the street' after the result, asking what was the primary reason they voted why they did. One guy said "to stop bus-loads of Muslims coming into the country every day". When it was pointed out to him that exiting the EU would have no influence on immigration from outside the EU, he looked genuinely confused.

 

just like when some bird off Love Island sad she voted to remain because she likes cheese

[Tamesaint]

just like when some bird off Love Island sad she voted to remain because she likes cheese

 

Not really.

 

Any post Brexit restrictions on the import of French or other European cheeses will affect cheese lovers. Any increase in the cost of European cheese due to Brexit will affect cheese lovers. Indeed the drop in the value of the pound since June 2016 has already increased the cost.

 

I reckon that the Love Island bird was talking sense.

[Batman]

Not really.

 

Any post Brexit restrictions on the import of French or other European cheeses will affect cheese lovers. Any increase in the cost of European cheese due to Brexit will affect cheese lovers. Indeed the drop in the value of the pound since June 2016 has already increased the cost.

 

I reckon that the Love Island bird was talking sense.

 

[ecuk268]

I would favour an increase in MP salaries to something like £350k p.a., provided exploitation of expenses is curtailed. Build / lease a block of serviced apartments in London available for free use.

 

The job's much more important than many jobs which command salaries much higher than the current MP salary.

 

It's clear that the current system is broken and attracts an unacceptably high number of weirdos, the over-privileged, and under-skilled / under intelligent zealots.

 

Make it more aspirational for more normal but capable people and drag it away from these unrepresentative losers. The party system is also unhelpful.

 

Interesting suggestion but how do avoid getting some of the utter incompetents that we have at the moment (Grayling, Fox, Bridgen, Chope, Abbott.... the list is endless.

 

Educational attainment is no guide, there have been some very good MPs from modest backgrounds whereas some of the Eton lot have been disastrous.

[benjii]

Although it doesn't seem to get mentioned much nowadays, immigration, especially of non-white ethnic groups, was the key issue behind the Brexit vote. Having just returned from the Netherlands, I was amazed how much the ethnic makeup of that country is determined by its colonial history rather than its EU membership. The population is very largely, white Dutch and the main minority groups you see are Indonesian and Surinamese. Black people are a rarity as the Netherlands never had African colonies. In the school groups I saw, there were far fewer black faces than you'd have seen in England before we joined the EU. Most were all white Dutch.

 

It made me realize how much this applies to the UK too. We have a large muslim population because the British Empire included what is now Pakistan and a large black population because of our colonial history in the Caribbean and Africa. In reality, leaving the EU will probably have no significant effect on the ethnic makeup of this country, although we might lose some of the workers from Poland who do poorly paid jobs in farming and residential care homes. We'll probably have to attract their replacements from our former colonies.

 

I was intrigued, on a recent visit to Italy, to learn that the Pope is a Catholic!

[benjii]

I'd make their pay performance related. In fact government have been perfecting the perfect system in education for years.

 

MPs can be regularly checked by Ofsted and classed as outstanding, requires improvement or failing.

 

It would work particularly well for government dock the pay of the transport secretary if a train is late or the health secretary if anyone has to wait to see a doctor etc etc..

 

 

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

 

Good plan!

[trousers]

...

[shurlock]

Is Les (Terry) on LBC right now?

[trousers]

Game changer...

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2097200947043549&id=516762978420695

 

An open letter to Theresa May

My Dear Theresa,

We have known each other for over 21 years since you became our MP. You visited my home in Sonning, where you also lived. Three years before you became Prime Minister, I predicted your victory when I showed you Winston Churchill's spoon on my Cadillac, which I asked you to touch.

Despite popular public opinion, I also predicted that Donald Trump would become the 45th President of the United States.

As you might have read, I am ensuring that Jeremy Corbyn never gets the keys to Number 10 Downing Street, with the power of my mind which I have proved over and again.

I will ensure that they bend out of all proportion to ensure that he never takes up residence there.

My power has been validated by the CIA, MI5 and Mossad.

The CIA concluded: "As a result of Geller's success in this experimental period, we consider that he has demonstrated his paranormal perceptual ability in a convincing and unambiguous manner."

It is easily verifiable. Just look at the official CIA website.

I have influenced many high ranking officials around the world.

On one occasion, Senator Clayborne Pell, then the chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, directed me to bombard the mind of Yuli Vorontsov, the Soviet Union’s chief nuclear negotiator, to influence him telepathically to sign the Nuclear Arms Reduction treaty, which I did successfully.

Now to the point of my open letter to you.

I feel psychically and very strongly that most British people do not want Brexit.

I love you very much but I will not allow you to lead Britain into Brexit.

As much as I admire you, I will stop you telepathically from doing this - and believe me I am capable of executing it.

Before I take this drastic course of action, I appeal to you to stop the process immediately while you still have a chance.

Although I currently live in Israel I am still a British citizen and feel very passionately about the country and the people I came to love.

Much energy and love

Uri

[Mosin]

Game changer...

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2097200947043549&id=516762978420695

 

Crazy. should be locked up in a white vest.

[Tamesaint]

Crazy. should be locked up in a white vest.

 

3.7 million now chum and still growing.

 

A word of advice. Don't try to bet on any horses this weekend.

[Weston Super Saint]

Crazy. should be locked up in a white vest.

 

With any luck he'll be in a room next to Jeff shortly!

[Mosin]

3.7 million now chum and still growing.

 

A word of advice. Don't try to bet on any horses this weekend.

 

just 3.7 million, so still a long long way to go,, remind me again when it reaches 17 million and the gov listen to an easily tapered with poll. you know they have already said they wont take notice of it right?

[Verbal]

Game changer...

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2097200947043549&id=516762978420695

 

Let's see how many Brexit cultists get bent out of shape over that.

[hypochondriac]

3.7 million now chum and still growing.

 

A word of advice. Don't try to bet on any horses this weekend.

Why are people pretending that an Internet petition has more legitimacy than a referendum? Just weird.

[Jonnyboy]

Not only that, those that voted for Corbyn voted for the Tory party to get to do pretty much what they wanted, carte blanche. They were warned at the time, but ignored it. They're as much to blame as those that voted for the Conservatives.

 

Rees-Mogg has a chance, but he's perceived as too far right now to win an election, IMHO. Moderate Tories will not vote for him.

 

What bull. If the Labour "centrists" had respected the members and not tried to sabotage Corbyn at every turn he could well have won the last GE and a much more moderate Brexit would probably be going through next week with a lot less drama and turmoil.

[Jonnyboy]

I note UJ. That you mention Gove and Hunt as potential leaders. I personally think that Rees-Mogg is a potential in the runners and riders, more so over Hunt.

 

All said, when the Labour Party decided on Corbyn, it ultimately left itself high and dry with no prospect of election. The Labour Party have left themselves in a similar situation to the days of Neil Kinnock with no prospect of ousting their present leader.

 

Funny how those Corbyn lovers at the Sun have him down as highest odds to be next PM

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3761507/who-next-prime-minister-theresa-may-resign-election-latest/

[Unbelievable Jeff]

What bull. If the Labour "centrists" had respected the members and not tried to sabotage Corbyn at every turn he could well have won the last GE and a much more moderate Brexit would probably be going through next week with a lot less drama and turmoil.

 

********, he's unelectable. You made a mistake, you're partly responsible for the issues now, ****ing own it you pussy.

Edited 23 March, 2019 by Unbelievable Jeff

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Funny how those Corbyn lovers at the Sun have him down as highest odds to be next PM

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3761507/who-next-prime-minister-theresa-may-resign-election-latest/

 

Oh, so now you'll believe what the Sun writes?

Edited 23 March, 2019 by Unbelievable Jeff

[Jonnyboy]

********, he's unelectable. You made a mistake, yoga re partly responsible for the issues now, ****ing own it you pussy.

 

pipe down Toryboy

[Jonnyboy]

Oh, so how you'll believe what the Sun writes?

 

Have you had a shandy?

They are quoting William Hill https://sports.williamhill.com/betting/en-gb/politics

Although Gove has moved into favourite now.

[badgerx16]

Funny how those Corbyn lovers at the Sun have him down as highest odds to be next PM

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3761507/who-next-prime-minister-theresa-may-resign-election-latest/

 

Best way of scaring their readers into voting against Labour.

[Tamesaint]

just 3.7 million, so still a long long way to go,, remind me again when it reaches 17 million and the gov listen to an easily tapered with poll. you know they have already said they wont take notice of it right?

 

Calm down dear, calm down. You are clearly rattled.

 

You were the one who dissed it yesterday and thought that it would struggle to reach 2 million. You were clearly wrong. Your judgement is amusingly incorrect yet instead of admitting it you continue to belittle it. Why ? Don't you like the thought of people expressing their opinion ??

 

Just admit it ... Your judgement of the size of this petition has been wrong . As I said don't gamble on anything this weekend because your predictive abilities are obviously rather lacking.

[Mosin]

Calm down dear, calm down. You are clearly rattled.

 

You were the one who dissed it yesterday and thought that it would struggle to reach 2 million. You were clearly wrong. Your judgement is amusingly incorrect yet instead of admitting it you continue to belittle it. Why ? Don't you like the thought of people expressing their opinion ??

 

Just admit it ... Your judgement of the size of this petition has been wrong . As I said don't gamble on anything this weekend because your predictive abilities are obviously rather lacking.

 

I was taking the **** out of remainers getting excited by it reaching 1 mill, it made the news, it made the news when it hit 1.5 mill n 2 mill and again at 3, as I said the first time, getting excited over some thing that the gov has already dismissed is funny, I don't care if it got on the news the day it was put up it for hitting 20 million ,i couldn't care if it hit 100 million and made the news.

 

Loads of people have alredy stated both on twitter and on tv they have done multiple signs on the petition, some of them are not even able to vote as they are not from the UK. but what ever.

 

keep getting excited over it by all means if it makes you happy.

[moonraker]

I would favour an increase in MP salaries to something like £350k p.a., provided exploitation of expenses is curtailed. Build / lease a block of serviced apartments in London available for free use.

 

The job's much more important than many jobs which command salaries much higher than the current MP salary.

 

It's clear that the current system is broken and attracts an unacceptably high number of weirdos, the over-privileged, and under-skilled / under intelligent zealots.

 

Make it more aspirational for more normal but capable people and drag it away from these unrepresentative losers. The party system is also unhelpful.

 

Could not agree more, pay peanuts get either monkeys or villains. I realise £70k ish sounds a lot to most of us ordinary folk, but it is not a true reflection of the task we ask of our MPs.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

pipe down Toryboy

 

Not voted Tory for nigh on 10 years...when you voted for Corbyn, did you actually think about the ramifications for everyone else, or did you just think if yourself?

Edited 23 March, 2019 by Unbelievable Jeff

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Have you had a shandy?

They are quoting William Hill https://sports.williamhill.com/betting/en-gb/politics

Although Gove has moved into favourite now.

 

Then why didn't you just quote a bookmaker, rather than your paper of choice?

 

In addition to that, Gove is the favourite on that link - and he isn't the leader of any party.

Edited 23 March, 2019 by Unbelievable Jeff

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I was taking the **** out of remainers getting excited by it reaching 1 mill, it made the news, it made the news when it hit 1.5 mill n 2 mill and again at 3, as I said the first time, getting excited over some thing that the gov has already dismissed is funny, I don't care if it got on the news the day it was put up it for hitting 20 million ,i couldn't care if it hit 100 million and made the news.

 

Loads of people have alredy stated both on twitter and on tv they have done multiple signs on the petition, some of them are not even able to vote as they are not from the UK. but what ever.

 

keep getting excited over it by all means if it makes you happy.

 

I don't think anyone here is getting excited about it, except you.

[Sheaf Saint]

I was taking the **** out of remainers getting excited by it reaching 1 mill, it made the news, it made the news when it hit 1.5 mill n 2 mill and again at 3, as I said the first time, getting excited over some thing that the gov has already dismissed is funny, I don't care if it got on the news the day it was put up it for hitting 20 million ,i couldn't care if it hit 100 million and made the news.

 

Loads of people have alredy stated both on twitter and on tv they have done multiple signs on the petition, some of them are not even able to vote as they are not from the UK. but what ever.

 

keep getting excited over it by all means if it makes you happy.

 

No evidence of any bot activity, and overseas signatories indicative of ex-pats signing. Reports of people being able to sign twice using same email are false. Evidence that disinformation is being spread to discredit the validity of the poll by known disinformation actors...

 

https://britorbot.org/2019/03/22/revoke-article-50-petition/

[benjii]

The petition is completely irrelevant, unless you think online petitions are the way we should govern the country and it should carry more weight than the referendum.

 

It would be meaningful if it got at least 17,000,000 verified separate votes from people who were entitled to vote last time.

 

Clearly things are a mess though.

 

I think the best way forwards from here is for May to conclude her deal won’t pass a further vote. That leaves her with no deal or permanent revocation of A50, neither of which she will want to execute. She must therefore resign and the EU must be asked for a further one year extension to allow for the Tories to elect a leader and then for a general election much later in the year to allow all parties to campaign on a clear mandate as to what they would do. If Tories and Labour can’t get their act together and offer a clear plan for Brexit then more fool anyone who votes for them.

 

This doesn’t guarantee a decent outcome in a year but it at least opens up the possibility. Ideally an independent or cross-party commission on the NI border would be established to consider realistic, achievable solutions. Might have been an idea to do that a few years ago.

Edited 23 March, 2019 by benjii

[hypochondriac]

No evidence of any bot activity, and overseas signatories indicative of ex-pats signing. Reports of people being able to sign twice using same email are false. Evidence that disinformation is being spread to discredit the validity of the poll by known disinformation actors...

 

https://britorbot.org/2019/03/22/revoke-article-50-petition/

What validity does the poll have that is being discredited?

[Verbal]

Funny how those Corbyn lovers at the Sun have him down as highest odds to be next PM

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3761507/who-next-prime-minister-theresa-may-resign-election-latest/

 

A Corbyn cultist quoting a barely concealed anti-Corbyn scare piece based marginally on betting odds in the lowest of Murdoch's rags.

 

That's quite funny.

[Sheaf Saint]

What validity does the poll have that is being discredited?

 

Legally speaking, none. You know - just like the 2016 referendum

 

But if it gets over 17. 4m (which I don't believe it will BTW) , and it can be shown that the overwhelming majority of signatures are genuine and not the result of fraudulent interference, then it makes a compelling case for holding a second referendum.

[hypochondriac]

Legally speaking, none. You know - just like the 2016 referendum

 

But if it gets over 17. 4m (which I don't believe it will BTW) , and it can be shown that the overwhelming majority of signatures are genuine and not the result of fraudulent interference, then it makes a compelling case for holding a second referendum.

No it doesn't that's absurd.

[trousers]

Would it be fair to suggest that if a "let's leave with no deal" petition had reached the same number of signatories as the "let's revoke article 50" petition in similar record time, then brexiteers would have been talking it up and remainers talking it down...?

 

[Sheaf Saint]

No it doesn't that's absurd.

 

 

 

Why is it?

[hypochondriac]

Why is it?

Why would getting 17.4 million signatures on an online petition about revoking article 50 provide any sort of case for a second referendum?

[Jonnyboy]

A Corbyn cultist quoting a barely concealed anti-Corbyn scare piece based marginally on betting odds in the lowest of Murdoch's rags.

 

That's quite funny.

 

Why is everyone you disagree with a "cultist." I wouldnt be surprised if you are religious too.

 

That's quite funny.

Edited 23 March, 2019 by Jonnyboy

[egg]

Legally speaking, none. You know - just like the 2016 referendum

 

But if it gets over 17. 4m (which I don't believe it will BTW) , and it can be shown that the overwhelming majority of signatures are genuine and not the result of fraudulent interference, then it makes a compelling case for holding a second referendum.

 

The petition counts for nothing and is so capable of manipulation...I voted 4 times. That said, it's no more or less legally binding than the referendum, and at least it comes from a position of knowledge rather than the boll0x spouted pre referendum.