Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[badgerx16]

:lol:

 

I assumed he was too old now to work - what's he do?

You really don't know ?

[badgerx16]

From Buzzfeed's twitter, and quoted on the BBC;

 

"UK PM May presented her views to EU27 leaders at #EUCO. I am told she was “evasive” and “tightlipped”. The prime minister was repeatedly asked by several leaders what she would do if MPs vote the deal down. May didn’t answer the question."

[Unbelievable Jeff]

You really don't know ?

 

Nope! Tend to stick away from his posts.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Anyone know where I can get some English Champagne? Got a party to go to next week.

 

Denbies does some cracking English Sparkling.

[LGTL]

May has completely lost the plot. The queen should be ****ing interfering here and bringing down the government as they are no longer fit to serve in her name.

[badgerx16]

Nope! Tend to stick away from his posts.

 

Agrochemicals, which has flavoured his view of the EU due to differences of opinion between his company and them over environmental impacts and licencing.

 

( John, if I am not actually on 'ignore', feel free to correct this if it is inaccurate ).

[badgerx16]

May has completely lost the plot. The queen should be ****ing interfering here and bringing down the government as they are no longer fit to serve in her name.

Constitutionally the Queen can't interfere, and in public she can't hold political opinions.

[LGTL]

Constitutionally the Queen can't interfere, and in public she can't hold political opinions.

 

Just read that her right to dissolve was removed in 2011.

 

Shame.

[badgerx16]

Just read that her right to dissolve was removed in 2011.

I think the convention was that the PM would ask the Monarch to dissolve Parliament, as technically Parliament sits at the behest of the Sovereign, rather than the Monarch acting independently. ( The Monarch rules at the request of Parliament, which has been the situation since at least the English Civil War ). The Fixed Term Parliaments Act set legislative time limits on the lifetime of Parliaments, so unless the HOC, ( not the PM ), agrees to an "early bath", the end date is automatically set.

[doddisalegend]

May has completely lost the plot. The queen should be ****ing interfering here and bringing down the government as they are no longer fit to serve in her name.

 

harking back to the good old days of the 17th century?

 

[LGTL]

harking back to the good old days of the 17th century?

 

 

Off with their heads!

[Jonnyboy]

They probably were misled by him, but there is no doubt - it is not legally-binding.

 

Either way, "...do my best..." is a best endeavors statement, not one of certainty.

 

He certainly didn't do his best.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

He certainly didn't do his best.

 

True story.

[badgerx16]

Still going - over 1,030,000 now

 

1,552,837 when I clicked the link in the confirmation email.

[badgerx16]

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-03-21/has-the-prime-minister-cracked-her-chief-whip/

 

"In the tea rooms and offices of Parliament, the Chief Whip has been openly admitting today that he found last night's statement in Downing Street "appalling.""

""She just won't listen to us," Julian Smith, ( the Government Chief Whip ), told one MP."

"All sense that the PM understands the reality in Parliament has been lost."

[Mosin]

1,552,837 when I clicked the link in the confirmation email.

 

Only 15,857,905 to go...……..

[saint1977]

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-03-21/has-the-prime-minister-cracked-her-chief-whip/

 

"In the tea rooms and offices of Parliament, the Chief Whip has been openly admitting today that he found last night's statement in Downing Street "appalling.""

""She just won't listen to us," Julian Smith, ( the Government Chief Whip ), told one MP."

"All sense that the PM understands the reality in Parliament has been lost."

 

Once you lose your chief whip as PM it is simply time to go. EU having to take the steering wheel tonight as May, Tory Party and Labour Party have failed. Cannot see any future for any of those trio. Needs to be a free vote in Parliament now; longer extension with a new government, May deal or managed no deal. May strategy has failed and vote 3 more of the same, get her out. Labour needs to pull its finger out on Corbyn and get him out as well.

[Guided Missile]

Only 15,857,905 to go...……..

This was a more successful petition. It got 4,150,262 signatures and got nowhere...

[Guided Missile]

This was a more successful petition. It got 4,150,262 signatures and got nowhere...

The website’s only identity “test” is a simple checkbox asking to confirm you are either a British citizen or that you are a resident of the UK. While postcodes are required, street addresses are not and no proof of ID is needed.

 

 

People from different countries have been tweeting that they signed the petition. Mark Mennell, who is Australian and used to live in the UK, used his old postcode to sign. He said: “Anyone in the world can do it, it seems ... It’s a complete farce.”

[Mosin]

The website’s only identity “test” is a simple checkbox asking to confirm you are either a British citizen or that you are a resident of the UK. While postcodes are required, street addresses are not and no proof of ID is needed.

 

 

People from different countries have been tweeting that they signed the petition. Mark Mennell, who is Australian and used to live in the UK, used his old postcode to sign. He said: “Anyone in the world can do it, it seems ... It’s a complete farce.”

 

Don't tell them that, they getting all excited over it

 

 

Will be in news on Monday that its reached 2 million at long last

[Tamesaint]

The website’s only identity “test” is a simple checkbox asking to confirm you are either a British citizen or that you are a resident of the UK. While postcodes are required, street addresses are not and no proof of ID is needed.

 

 

People from different countries have been tweeting that they signed the petition. Mark Mennell, who is Australian and used to live in the UK, used his old postcode to sign. He said: “Anyone in the world can do it, it seems ... It’s a complete farce.”

 

Edit

Edited 21 March, 2019 by Tamesaint

[Tamesaint]

Agrochemicals, which has flavoured his view of the EU due to differences of opinion between his company and them over environmental impacts and licencing.

 

( John, if I am not actually on 'ignore', feel free to correct this if it is inaccurate ).

 

He gets annoyed if people say that the chemicals he flogs damage the environment... which of course they don't...no siree.... not one teeny weeny bit.... It is just those nasty people in Europe who hate British sovereignty who think they do

[Plastic]

Still going - over 1,030,000 now

 

Nigh on 2 million now.

[Verbal]

So 29th March will come and go without the UK going pop. I could have sworn the jihadists promised us there was no escaping no-deal day...

[badgerx16]

Nigh on 2 million now.

 

It's got a better chance of getting debated in Parliament than May's deal has of being passed by Parliament.

[trousers]

So, when May implements ye olde 'statutory instrument' to remove 29th March from the statute book, does she have to set a new date (12th April?) or can she leave it open ended?

[Jonnyboy]

Don't tell them that, they getting all excited over it

 

 

Will be in news on Monday that its reached 2 million at long last

 

2 million now.

[Cartman]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Swiss_immigration_initiative

 

But, but, but... the will of the Swiss people. How dare they put the countries economy and standard of living above "democracy".

[Unbelievable Jeff]

So, the EU have recognised that if May's deal fails, May will be gone, and Parliament will need time to discuss whether to go for a long extension to Art50, or revoke entirely.

 

I think there is more of an appetite to get rid of May now, than pass her deal.

[CB Fry]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Swiss_immigration_initiative

 

But, but, but... the will of the Swiss people. How dare they put the countries economy and standard of living above "democracy".

A 50/50 result in a yes/no referendum isn't a great representation of the will of the people.

 

And, ultimately life is about choices. The Swiss government needed to work through which things are most important,make choices around that and accept the consequences of those choices.

 

Much like May has had to do, and the swivel eyed loons from the ERG refuse to do.

[CB Fry]

You know the EU are going to crack and concede to all our demands at the last minute, because that's what happens with every EU negotiation...that's going to happen any day now right?

 

Especially once the German car makers start banging on the door.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

You know the EU are going to crack and concede to all our demands at the last minute, because that's what happens with every EU negotiation...that's going to happen any day now right?

 

Especially once the German car makers start banging on the door.

 

Still trying to work out what concessions they're meant to make...

[shurlock]

You know the EU are going to crack and concede to all our demands at the last minute, because that's what happens with every EU negotiation...that's going to happen any day now right?

 

Especially once the German car makers start banging on the door.

 

The headbangers have a harryesque ability to deny reality, to shift blame for their feeble, discredited analysis onto others - how May didn’t ‘believe’ enough in Brexit to make the threat of no-deal credible, how parliament undermined its force every step of the way etc etc.

[Cartman]

A 50/50 result in a yes/no referendum isn't a great representation of the will of the people.

 

And, ultimately life is about choices. The Swiss government needed to work through which things are most important,make choices around that and accept the consequences of those choices.

 

Much like May has had to do, and the swivel eyed loons from the ERG refuse to do.

 

Neither is 52/48. My (sarcastic) point is that the Swiss found themselves in a very similar situation to the one we are in, and yet they had no issue ignoring the result of the referendum because they considered the well-being of their citizens to be more important than spurious notions of "will of the people" and "undermining faith in our democracy".

The country that isn't governed by a party hostage to it's lunatic fringe came to the obvious conclusion that implementing the result of the referendum wasn't worth the price that would have to be paid and buried the issue without much fuss, the one that is seems to think that tanking their economy and reducing living standards is a viable option.

The Swiss were pragmatic and did the equivalent of revoking A50, for some reason we seem to think that it is beneath us and would rather cling on to our misguided ideals and suffer for it.

[CB Fry]

Neither is 52/48. My (sarcastic) point is that the Swiss found themselves in a very similar situation to the one we are in, and yet they had no issue ignoring the result of the referendum because they considered the well-being of their citizens to be more important than spurious notions of "will of the people" and "undermining faith in our democracy".

The country that isn't governed by a party hostage to it's lunatic fringe came to the obvious conclusion that implementing the result of the referendum wasn't worth the price that would have to be paid and buried the issue without much fuss, the one that is seems to think that tanking their economy and reducing living standards is a viable option.

The Swiss were pragmatic and did the equivalent of revoking A50, for some reason we seem to think that it is beneath us and would rather cling on to our misguided ideals and suffer for it.

Sorry, my mistake. If there's one thing I can't stand it's sarcasm.

[sadoldgit]

Didn’t Einstein say that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result? The people we elected to represent us have voted twice, with a large majority, to reject this deal. Why should they be expected to vote on the same deal again? We clearly need to find another way forward. If May cannot or will not contemplate the obvious we need a new PM who can. For those bemoaning the lack of democracy, what does it say about democracy if MPs have to keep going through the same process until they are worn down to the point they say yes? This deal is dead and should be buried, the PM along with it.

[Portugalsaint]

So, the EU have recognised that if May's deal fails, May will be gone, and Parliament will need time to discuss whether to go for a long extension to Art50, or revoke entirely.

 

I think there is more of an appetite to get rid of May now, than pass her deal.

 

This is true UJ, however, who will be big enough or have the balls to step into her shoes.

 

Maybe, instead of people signing for A50 to be revoked, a petition to have May removed would be the way forward. This is something the ERG and others could put into force immediately.

Edited 22 March, 2019 by Portugalsaint

[Unbelievable Jeff]

This is true UJ, however, who will be big enough or have the balls to step into her shoes.

 

Maybe, instead of people signing for A50 to be revoked, a petition to have May removed would be the way forward. This is something the ERG and others could put into force immediately.

 

Well, this is where politics will go ****ing mental over the next few months.

 

- If May resigns, we will end up having to take part in the European Elections, as it will take too long to get someone else (either Gove or Hunt) into the hot seat, and to set out their 'red lines'.

- If May stays, and it looks like we're heading to a 'No deal' Brexit, there will be enough resignations from the Tory party to take them out of Government and will lead to a GE.

- At the same time, Labour and Corbyn will be bleating for a GE - which they wouldn't win against Gove UNLESS they get rid of Corbyn (which they might well do). Keir Starmer will most likely take over, and a more moderate Labour party will be far more amenable to the general population - especially as Keir would run based on a second referendum (and he actually believes in it).

- The ERG are effectively powerless. The 150 or so seats they control are far short of being able to do anything on their own, apart from get May's deal through, or getting rid of May. Anything beyond that is out of their control, and they know that.

[Portugalsaint]

I note UJ. That you mention Gove and Hunt as potential leaders. I personally think that Rees-Mogg is a potential in the runners and riders, more so over Hunt.

 

All said, when the Labour Party decided on Corbyn, it ultimately left itself high and dry with no prospect of election. The Labour Party have left themselves in a similar situation to the days of Neil Kinnock with no prospect of ousting their present leader.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I note UJ. That you mention Gove and Hunt as potential leaders. I personally think that Rees-Mogg is a potential in the runners and riders, more so over Hunt.

 

All said, when the Labour Party decided on Corbyn, it ultimately left itself high and dry with no prospect of election. The Labour Party have left themselves in a similar situation to the days of Neil Kinnock with no prospect of ousting their present leader.

 

Not only that, those that voted for Corbyn voted for the Tory party to get to do pretty much what they wanted, carte blanche. They were warned at the time, but ignored it. They're as much to blame as those that voted for the Conservatives.

 

Rees-Mogg has a chance, but he's perceived as too far right now to win an election, IMHO. Moderate Tories will not vote for him.

[LGTL]

Not only that, those that voted for Corbyn voted for the Tory party to get to do pretty much what they wanted, carte blanche. They were warned at the time, but ignored it. They're as much to blame as those that voted for the Conservatives.

 

Rees-Mogg has a chance, but he's perceived as too far right now to win an election, IMHO. Moderate Tories will not vote for him.

 

Corbyn has more chance of winning an election then Rees-Mogg.

 

Both are entirely unelectable IMO.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Corbyn has more chance of winning an election then Rees-Mogg.

 

Both are entirely unelectable IMO.

 

Imagine that - two unelectable leaders of the two main parties...

[benjii]

I would favour an increase in MP salaries to something like £350k p.a., provided exploitation of expenses is curtailed. Build / lease a block of serviced apartments in London available for free use.

 

The job's much more important than many jobs which command salaries much higher than the current MP salary.

 

It's clear that the current system is broken and attracts an unacceptably high number of weirdos, the over-privileged, and under-skilled / under intelligent zealots.

 

Make it more aspirational for more normal but capable people and drag it away from these unrepresentative losers. The party system is also unhelpful.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I would favour an increase in MP salaries to something like £350k p.a., provided exploitation of expenses is curtailed. Build / lease a block of serviced apartments in London available for free use.

 

The job's much more important than many jobs which command salaries much higher than the current MP salary.

 

It's clear that the current system is broken and attracts an unacceptably high number of weirdos, the over-privileged, and under-skilled / under intelligent zealots.

 

Make it more aspirational for more normal but capable people and drag it away from these unrepresentative losers. The party system is also unhelpful.

 

Absolutely - although the path is also very difficult. Going through the Councillor route is very hard work, long hours, and for a pitiful top-up of your salary. A couple of my friend are Tory Councillors, and have been encouraging me to look into it, but with young kids it would end up taking a lot out of me, at a time I should be enjoying. Maybe in a few years time, but we'll see.

 

Wage isn't good enough at MP level - £77k PA is a very average wage (same as a Finance Manager or similar) and the responsibility is far higher.

[shurlock]

I would favour an increase in MP salaries to something like £350k p.a., provided exploitation of expenses is curtailed. Build / lease a block of serviced apartments in London available for free use.

 

The job's much more important than many jobs which command salaries much higher than the current MP salary.

 

It's clear that the current system is broken and attracts an unacceptably high number of weirdos, the over-privileged, and under-skilled / under intelligent zealots.

 

Make it more aspirational for more normal but capable people and drag it away from these unrepresentative losers. The party system is also unhelpful.

 

Don’t think salaries are the primary issue - it’s the selection process which rewards party loyalty and tribal allegiance over everything else. Striking the right connections and demonstrating that loyalty involves plenty a lot of groundwork and mixing in circles that most people would never dream of.

Edited 22 March, 2019 by shurlock

[benjii]

Don’t think salaries are the primary issue - it’s the selection process which rewards party loyalty and tribal allegiance over everything else. Striking the right connections and demonstrating that loyalty involves plenty a lot of groundwork and mixing in circles that most people would never dream of.

 

Yes, I agree. That's probably a bigger problem but harder to write a forum post about, so I copped out.

[Doctoroncall]

I would favour an increase in MP salaries to something like £350k p.a., provided exploitation of expenses is curtailed. Build / lease a block of serviced apartments in London available for free use.

 

The job's much more important than many jobs which command salaries much higher than the current MP salary.

 

It's clear that the current system is broken and attracts an unacceptably high number of weirdos, the over-privileged, and under-skilled / under intelligent zealots.

 

Make it more aspirational for more normal but capable people and drag it away from these unrepresentative losers. The party system is also unhelpful.

 

Happy if they get an increase in salary as long as they don’t have secondary jobs. The people voted for them to do a job representing them not so they can get lucrative jobs or scam for more money in expenses.

[hypochondriac]

Absolutely - although the path is also very difficult. Going through the Councillor route is very hard work, long hours, and for a pitiful top-up of your salary. A couple of my friend are Tory Councillors, and have been encouraging me to look into it, but with young kids it would end up taking a lot out of me, at a time I should be enjoying. Maybe in a few years time, but we'll see.

 

Wage isn't good enough at MP level - £77k PA is a very average wage (same as a Finance Manager or similar) and the responsibility is far higher.

I can't imagine any voters will take too kindly to some of the things you've posted on here if they were ever to discover your online identity.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I can't imagine any voters will take too kindly to some of the things you've posted on here if they were ever to discover your online identity.

 

Right to be forgotten, GDPR, innit - I have thought about this, don't worry.

Edited 22 March, 2019 by Unbelievable Jeff

[Unbelievable Jeff]