Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[badgerx16]

 

May's proposal is

 

1. vote for my deal by this time next week, or we have to participate in the European elections because we'll be in for the long haul.

 

2. the punishment for not approving my deal yesterday is we have to stay until June to get the legislation through. Serves you lot right.

 

So she wants to bring her deal back, again, with the added bonus of sh itting up the ERG enough that they vote for it.

 

And a Brexiteer on TV right now saying he has no choice to choose between May's deal or no Brexit and he will pick May's deal. And references David Davis from yesterday who said to him that he saw it coming which is why he voted for the deal yesterday.

 

Well, who could have possibly predicted that.

[CB Fry]

As Corbyn demanded all along.

Put it on the list next to ending the Troubles in Northern Ireland and freeing Nelson Mandela.

[Jonnyboy]

Put it on the list next to ending the Troubles in Northern Ireland and freeing Nelson Mandela.

 

I'll settle for another general election.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I'll settle for another general election.

 

To finally get rid of Corbyn?

[Verbal]

To finally get rid of Corbyn?

 

That'll be a consequence, for sure, but you don't expect the cult to understand this, do you?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

That'll be a consequence, for sure, but you don't expect the cult to understand this, do you?

 

Be good to see ol' Keir get in power to be honest.

[Verbal]

Be good to see ol' Keir get in power to be honest.

 

It would. We could possibly then see Labour transformed from the ghost of a party brought to an historic low by incompetents, Jew hater and Putinists, and into something worth electing again.

[Jonnyboy]

It would. We could possibly then see Labour transformed from the ghost of a party brought to an historic low by incompetents, Jew hater and Putinists, and into something worth electing again.

 

 

It's true if he lost he'd have to resign as leader. Will the diddums IG come crawling back to the party then?

[saint lard]

You can see where Guy Fawkes got his motivation from.

 

 

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[buctootim]

Mr Farage needs to get lobbying to get that one veto against an extension of article 50.

Make it happen Nigel.

k

And there was me thinking the EU was a totalitarian regime which forced its members to do its bidding

[Wes Tender]

It appears that there is an old Parliamentary rule that prevents the same motion being put to the house multiple times. The Speaker could rule out May attempting to put her WA to the house for a third time. I hope that he does so, as the stupid, obstinate woman doesn't appear to realise that nobody likes her "deal" and that it was never ever going to get through the house from the minute it was conceived.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

It appears that there is an old Parliamentary rule that prevents the same motion being put to the house multiple times. The Speaker could rule out May attempting to put her WA to the house for a third time. I hope that he does so, as the stupid, obstinate woman doesn't appear to realise that nobody likes her "deal" and that it was never ever going to get through the house from the minute it was conceived.

 

Long Brexit delay on the horizon...how you feeling about that?

[Wes Tender]

On today's order paper there is an amendment proposed to the motion that we extend Article 50 adding a fourth paragraph to say that “the result of the 2016 EU referendum should be respected and that a second EU referendum would be divisive and expensive, and therefore should not take place”.

 

This is a cross party amendment and I can't see there being enough opposition to it for it not to go through. The prospect of another referendum is one suitable reason for the EU to grant a long extension to Article 50, which the devious cow May is threatening the House with. If there is no further referendum, then the only other reason an extension could be granted as far as I can see, is a General Election.

 

May not having sacked the Ministers who abstained from voting with the Government under a three line whip, shows how weak she is and that she has totally lost control of the Party and should be told by the men in grey suits to resign forthwith. God forbid that the Conservatives would fight a GE with the most useless, incompetent and devious leader in our history in charge.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

On today's order paper there is an amendment proposed to the motion that we extend Article 50 adding a fourth paragraph to say that “the result of the 2016 EU referendum should be respected and that a second EU referendum would be divisive and expensive, and therefore should not take place”.

 

This is a cross party amendment and I can't see there being enough opposition to it for it not to go through. The prospect of another referendum is one suitable reason for the EU to grant a long extension to Article 50, which the devious cow May is threatening the House with. If there is no further referendum, then the only other reason an extension could be granted as far as I can see, is a General Election.

 

May not having sacked the Ministers who abstained from voting with the Government under a three line whip, shows how weak she is and that she has totally lost control of the Party and should be told by the men in grey suits to resign forthwith. God forbid that the Conservatives would fight a GE with the most useless, incompetent and devious leader in our history in charge.

 

EU Council President Donald Tusk has said he will appeal to EU countries to be open to a "long extension" to negotiations if the UK decides to rethink its Brexit strategy.

 

BBC Brussels reporter Adam Fleming says his comments have put a long extension “firmly on the table”.

 

This will probably be welcome news for the prime minister, whose strategy has been to urge MPs to support her deal or risk a delay to Brexit, he says.

 

However, he adds that Mr Tusk’s move could still cause problems on the EU side, which is not united on the prospect of an extension or how long it should be.

 

He says Mr Tusk will now be speaking to EU leaders to attempt to find a consensus on the issue.

 

From BBC Website.

 

This means there doesn't have to be an election or further referendum, just a change to the red lines or tact.

[doddisalegend]

Well at least someone is doing alright out of this mess Farage is making a tidy sum out of brexit it seems...

 

'Skint' Nigel Farage's company assets grew almost £400k last year https://a.msn.com/r/2/BBUJCVF?m=en-gb&referrerID=InAppShare

 

 

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[Wes Tender]

Long Brexit delay on the horizon...how you feeling about that?

 

Long delay (if it happens without us leaving on WTO terms on 29th March) has some silver linings. Time to ditch the witch, appoint a pro-Brexit leader of the Party going for a Canada +++ deal with the EU. The new leader then sacking Hammond, Rudd, Gauke, Clark and other Remoaners in the Cabinet. Participation in the EU elections and the two main parties' vote being decimated by UKIP/Brexit Party, sending shock waves to them when they realise that they face a very serious threat in the next GE. Civil unrest in the Country, feeling angry and betrayed by the democratic process ignoring their instructions in the referendum. And then there is always the Schadenfreude of the loss of their jobs for the likes of Rudd, Soubry, Grieve, Wollaston, Allen, Sandbach etc. to look forward to in the next GE.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Long delay (if it happens without us leaving on WTO terms on 29th March) has some silver linings. Time to ditch the witch, appoint a pro-Brexit leader of the Party going for a Canada +++ deal with the EU. The new leader then sacking Hammond, Rudd, Gauke, Clark and other Remoaners in the Cabinet. Participation in the EU elections and the two main parties' vote being decimated by UKIP/Brexit Party, sending shock waves to them when they realise that they face a very serious threat in the next GE. Civil unrest in the Country, feeling angry and betrayed by the democratic process ignoring their instructions in the referendum. And then there is always the Schadenfreude of the loss of their jobs for the likes of Rudd, Soubry, Grieve, Wollaston, Allen, Sandbach etc. to look forward to in the next GE.

 

You see civil unrest as a silver lining?

[warsash saint]

The absolute mess caused by this Govt & they are still 10 points ahead in the polls!! Mental!!

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Looks like the DUP are ready to back May's deal - now just down to the ERG, and May being allowed to present the deal once more.

[buctootim]

Looks like the DUP are ready to back May's deal - now just down to the ERG, and May being allowed to present the deal once more.

 

May's deal is awful, but the transition period keeps things as they currently are until December 2020. Even if her 'deal' were to pass May will be gone by the summer and a new PM would want to renegotiate what happens after 2020. It wouldnrt be the end of the world if it did go through at third time of asking.

[Wes Tender]

It seems that Bercow has ruled out a vote on the amendment to vote that there should be no further referendum on whether to leave the EU. There is considerable anger aimed towards this obnoxious little creep and his Remoaner bias. The whole political system is rotten from top to bottom and yes, if it means that as a result there is civil disobedience, then they have it all coming to them.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

It seems that Bercow has ruled out a vote on the amendment to vote that there should be no further referendum on whether to leave the EU. There is considerable anger aimed towards this obnoxious little creep and his Remoaner bias. The whole political system is rotten from top to bottom and yes, if it means that as a result there is civil disobedience, then they have it all coming to them.

 

He shouldn't have allowed either through - to put it on the table in relation to Art50, or allow it to be taken off the table.

 

Good chance the amendment will be removed.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

May's deal is awful, but the transition period keeps things as they currently are until December 2020. Even if her 'deal' were to pass May will be gone by the summer and a new PM would want to renegotiate what happens after 2020. It wouldnrt be the end of the world if it did go through at third time of asking.

 

I've never seen May's deal as a particularly big thing - it is for a transition until we've signed an FTA. The issue (as we've said repeatedly) is that the GFA does not support separate customs unions. It will be a problem with any transition, or any FTA that doesn't include a customs union.

[Plastic]

Long delay (if it happens without us leaving on WTO terms on 29th March)the two main parties' vote being decimated by UKIP/Brexit Party, sending shock waves to them when they realise that they face a very serious threat in the next GE. Civil unrest in the Country, feeling angry and betrayed by the democratic process ignoring their instructions in the referendum.

 

You've gone full-on loony here.

[buctootim]

I've never seen May's deal as a particularly big thing - it is for a transition until we've signed an FTA. The issue (as we've said repeatedly) is that the GFA does not support separate customs unions. It will be a problem with any transition, or any FTA that doesn't include a customs union.

 

Thats my point really. The transition period keeps us in the customs union and single market until December 2020. A lot can happen between then and now to make the transitional arrangements permanent.

[shurlock]

It seems that Bercow has ruled out a vote on the amendment to vote that there should be no further referendum on whether to leave the EU. There is considerable anger aimed towards this obnoxious little creep and his Remoaner bias. The whole political system is rotten from top to bottom and yes, if it means that as a result there is civil disobedience, then they have it all coming to them.

 

Les, you're getting excitable again, old boy.

Edited 14 March, 2019 by shurlock

[Wes Tender]

You've gone full-on loony here.

 

http://www.ukpolitical.info/european-parliament-election-2014-results.htm

 

You've gone full on fingers in ears, hands over eyes here. Do you really believe that UKIP having won the lion's share of the vote and become the biggest UK party in the European Parliament at the last elections in 2014, that the electorate won't take their revenge on the two main parties if they have to vote in the European Elections again. There are 39 seats held by Labour and the Conservatives up for grabs. Labour made gains at the last elections, the Conservative's lost ground. Both will lose many seats this time around. If you disagree, let's have your reasoning on it.

[shurlock]

http://www.ukpolitical.info/european-parliament-election-2014-results.htm

 

You've gone full on fingers in ears, hands over eyes here. Do you really believe that UKIP having won the lion's share of the vote and become the biggest UK party in the European Parliament at the last elections in 2014, that the electorate won't take their revenge on the two main parties if they have to vote in the European Elections again. There are 39 seats held by Labour and the Conservatives up for grabs. Labour made gains at the last elections, the Conservative's lost ground. Both will lose many seats this time around. If you disagree, let's have your reasoning on it.

 

Hello Les.

 

As you've acknowledged, conventional wisdoms and allegiances are breaking down. Participation in EP elections has always attracted the eurosceptic headbangers, the hardcore jihadists who've been waging war with the EU for years while the rest of us have got on contentedly with our lives (I've never voted in the EP elections).

 

Now Europe as an issue has gone mainstream, it's quite possible that participation and representation may be a little less skewed. My pal, Andrew Adonis, is already saying that the Euro elections will be a symbolic referendum on stopping Brexit - something which he would have never said in the past.

[buctootim]

http://www.ukpolitical.info/european-parliament-election-2014-results.htm

 

You've gone full on fingers in ears, hands over eyes here. Do you really believe that UKIP having won the lion's share of the vote and become the biggest UK party in the European Parliament at the last elections in 2014, that the electorate won't take their revenge on the two main parties if they have to vote in the European Elections again. There are 39 seats held by Labour and the Conservatives up for grabs. Labour made gains at the last elections, the Conservative's lost ground. Both will lose many seats this time around. If you disagree, let's have your reasoning on it.

 

You and JJ are hilarious. Utterly unable to distinguish between your wet dream fantasies and reality. UKIP were on about 17% public support in 2014, now they're on 5% - despite the Tories desperate thrashing around. UKIP are a busted flush who will never get near power - which is why the ERG persist in trying to hijack the Tories instead of moving wholesale to UKIP.

[Verbal]

It seems that Bercow has ruled out a vote on the amendment to vote that there should be no further referendum on whether to leave the EU. There is considerable anger aimed towards this obnoxious little creep and his Remoaner bias. The whole political system is rotten from top to bottom and yes, if it means that as a result there is civil disobedience, then they have it all coming to them.

 

Oh dear. Another of your full-nappy tantrums.

[Wes Tender]

Hello Les.

 

As you've acknowledged, conventional wisdoms and allegiances are breaking down. Participation in EP elections has always attracted the eurosceptic headbangers, the hardcore jihadists who've been waging war with the EU for years while the rest of us have got on contentedly with our lives (I've never voted in the EP elections).

 

Now Europe as an issue has gone mainstream, it's quite possible that participation and representation may be a little less skewed. My pal, Andrew Adonis, is already saying that the Euro elections will be a symbolic referendum on stopping Brexit - something which he would have never said in the past.

 

Andrew Adonis is a complete nutter and wouldn't know what democracy was if it bit him on the arse. I really enjoy him being bested by Julia Hartley-Brewer whenever he deigns to patronise the electorate on her Talk Radio programme about how stupid they were to ignore the instructions of their betters like him when advised which way to vote in the referendum.

[Wes Tender]

Oh dear. Another of your full-nappy tantrums.

 

*yawn*

[Unbelievable Jeff]

*yawn*

 

Filled your nappy, now time for a nap is it?

[Wes Tender]

You and JJ are hilarious. Utterly unable to distinguish between your wet dream fantasies and reality. UKIP were on about 17% public support in 2014, now they're on 5% - despite the Tories desperate thrashing around. UKIP are a busted flush who will never get near power - which is why the ERG persist in trying to hijack the Tories instead of moving wholesale to UKIP.

 

UKIP's sole original reason to exist was to get us out of the EU. Having forced Cameron to promise and then deliver a referendum, it seemed that their whole raison d'etre had disappeared. In case you hadn't realised, it now looks as if Brexit is about to be ratted on by the Remoaner establishment elite, so after all, their job is not finished. Their support is once more on the increase, as it is for the new Brexit Party. It is extremely naive to suggest that just because their support had fallen, that it could not rise again under these circumstances.

 

You show your further naivety of British politics in suggesting that the ERG are trying to hijack the Tories instead of moving to UKIP. The ERG are the main faction in Parliament wishing to honour the referendum decision to leave the EU. They were elected on a Conservative manifesto that said that the party would honour the referendum vote, that no deal was better than a bad deal, that leaving the EU meant leaving the SM and the CU, the CFP and the CAP. They are the only faction that can claim to be true to the Conservative manifesto, so they are the real Conservatives.

 

Why on earth should they leave the Party? It is the likes of Rudd, Clark, Gauke, Hammond and other notable remoaners who should leave the Party and join the other anti-democrats like Soubry, Wollaston, Allen, etc that were happy to be elected on the back of the Conservative Party manifesto, and then to promptly rat on it and not have the common decency or ethical fortitude to then resign and face their electorates.

[Wes Tender]

Filled your nappy, now time for a nap is it?

 

Tired as in bored, not sleepy. HTH.

[shurlock]

UKIP's sole original reason to exist was to get us out of the EU. Having forced Cameron to promise and then deliver a referendum, it seemed that their whole raison d'etre had disappeared. In case you hadn't realised, it now looks as if Brexit is about to be ratted on by the Remoaner establishment elite, so after all, their job is not finished. Their support is once more on the increase, as it is for the new Brexit Party. It is extremely naive to suggest that just because their support had fallen, that it could not rise again under these circumstances.

 

You show your further naivety of British politics in suggesting that the ERG are trying to hijack the Tories instead of moving to UKIP. The ERG are the main faction in Parliament wishing to honour the referendum decision to leave the EU. They were elected on a Conservative manifesto that said that the party would honour the referendum vote, that no deal was better than a bad deal, that leaving the EU meant leaving the SM and the CU, the CFP and the CAP. They are the only faction that can claim to be true to the Conservative manifesto, so they are the real Conservatives.

 

Why on earth should they leave the Party? It is the likes of Rudd, Clark, Gauke, Hammond and other notable remoaners who should leave the Party and join the other anti-democrats like Soubry, Wollaston, Allen, etc that were happy to be elected on the back of the Conservative Party manifesto, and then to promptly rat on it and not have the common decency or ethical fortitude to then resign and face their electorates.

 

The dream’s slipping away Les. FACT.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

The ERG are the main faction in Parliament wishing to honour the referendum decision to leave the EU.

 

Main faction to honour leave, yet with 15 days to go they have yet to vote for the deal on the table...

Edited 14 March, 2019 by Unbelievable Jeff

[Unbelievable Jeff]

We may see a 'no-confidence' vote before the day is out...that'd be funny.

[OldNick]

It is bemusing that the people who think they re so patriotic are the same people who are causing/going to cause this nation the most damage since the Luftwaffe.

[aintforever]

Love the way asking the people 2nd time around is deemed undemocratic yet it's OK to ask Parliament a THIRD time to try and force an obviously sh!t deal through.

[Wes Tender]

Main faction to honour leave, yet with 15 days to go they have yet to vote for the deal on the table...

 

You mean the so called worst deal in our history? The sort of bad deal that May said was not as good as no deal? The one that has been likened to the punishment deal meted out to a country defeated in a war? That deal?

 

In any event, what is on the table isn't a deal at all. It is a Withdrawal Agreement to cover the two years when the real trade deal would be arranged. It will cost us £39 billion for something that we don't even know we will be getting in return.

 

In almost three years since the vote to leave, we haven't even begun discussing a trade deal properly yet.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Love the way asking the people 2nd time around is deemed undemocratic yet it's OK to ask Parliament a THIRD time to try and force an obviously sh!t deal through.

 

Or Brexiteers saying that yesterday's vote isn't binding...but for some reason the referendum was?!

[Unbelievable Jeff]

You mean the so called worst deal in our history? The sort of bad deal that May said was not as good as no deal? The one that has been likened to the punishment deal meted out to a country defeated in a war? That deal?

 

In any event, what is on the table isn't a deal at all. It is a Withdrawal Agreement to cover the two years when the real trade deal would be arranged. It will cost us £39 billion for something that we don't even know we will be getting in return.

 

In almost three years since the vote to leave, we haven't even begun discussing a trade deal properly yet.

 

Lol, yes, that is something that we discussed at length on this very thread, where you and GM were clearly getting confused between the WA and a Deal. The only reason we've continued to call it a deal, is because "No deal" is used so often (whereas it should be "No WA").

 

Perhaps you can explain the parts of the WA that you dislike (not taking into account the backstop as I think we can all agree that's not a good thing)?

[shurlock]

You mean the so called worst deal in our history? The sort of bad deal that May said was not as good as no deal? The one that has been likened to the punishment deal meted out to a country defeated in a war? That deal?

 

In any event, what is on the table isn't a deal at all. It is a Withdrawal Agreement to cover the two years when the real trade deal would be arranged. It will cost us £39 billion for something that we don't even know we will be getting in return.

 

In almost three years since the vote to leave, we haven't even begun discussing a trade deal properly yet.

 

Worst deal in history? Behave you old f**t.

[shurlock]

Lol, yes, that is something that we discussed at length on this very thread, where you and GM were clearly getting confused between the WA and a Deal. The only reason we've continued to call it a deal, is because "No deal" is used so often (whereas it should be "No WA").

 

Perhaps you can explain the parts of the WA that you dislike (not taking into account the backstop as I think we can all agree that's not a good thing)?

 

 

Frankly I don’t see the drama over the backstop, especially as the EU originally requested that it apply only to NI. Worse comes to worst, the UK joins a permanent CU, obviating the need for the backstop while reclaiming de jure control over the things that people really cared about when they voted leave. In the meantime, the backstop gives coffin-dodgers the opportunity to work up and demonstrate the feasibility of their preferred technological solution.

Edited 14 March, 2019 by shurlock

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Frankly I don’t see the drama over the backstop, especially as the EU originally requested that it only apply to NI. Worse comes to worst, the UK joins a permanent CU, obviating the need for the backstop. In the meantime, the coffin-dodgers can keep plugging away at their preferred technological solution.

 

I think we should join a customs union - the issue is the majority seem to not want that, hence the issue - and an issue with todays tech that cannot be solved.

[shurlock]

I think we should join a customs union - the issue is the majority seem to not want that, hence the issue - and an issue with todays tech that cannot be solved.

 

I suspect there's a majority for it in Parliament which indicative votes should uncover. As for the public, it's symptomatic of a hardening of attitudes (on both sides) which has taken on a life of its own, divorced from peoples own priorities and their understanding of the issues. Nobody can maintain with a straight face that having the power to set and decide one's own tariffs was the number one reason -or even a decisive reason for leaving back in 2016 -ahead of immigration, budget contributions and the regulatory obligations of the single market.

Edited 14 March, 2019 by shurlock

[Wes Tender]

Lol, yes, that is something that we discussed at length on this very thread, where you and GM were clearly getting confused between the WA and a Deal. The only reason we've continued to call it a deal, is because "No deal" is used so often (whereas it should be "No WA").

 

Perhaps you can explain the parts of the WA that you dislike (not taking into account the backstop as I think we can all agree that's not a good thing)?

 

Neither I or GM were remotely confused about the difference between the WA or a deal. Nor that No Deal was that too, as it was WTO terms and in fact several other mini deals that have now been arranged between us and the EU in the case of us leaving on 29th March without "a deal".

 

I'll get back to you later about the parts of the WA that I don't like, when I have more time.

[shurlock]

Neither I or GM were remotely confused about the difference between the WA or a deal. Nor that No Deal was that too, as it was WTO terms and in fact several other mini deals that have now been arranged between us and the EU in the case of us leaving on 29th March without "a deal".

 

I'll get back to you later about the parts of the WA that I don't like, when I have more time.

 

Of course, you were Les. You've embarrassed yourself time and time again on the subject, insisting how we could have negotiated a Canada +++ (because of some throwaway words from Tusk).

[shurlock]

I love the halfwits on radio and TV who claim that they initially voted remain but would now vote leave, even though they sound more swivel-eyed than the swiveliest of swivels. Nice try fellas