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Guided Missile

By Guided Missile,
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Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum  

220 members have voted

  1. 1. Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum

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aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted
Certainly be closer ties and shared resources, can't disagree with that, but to replace nations in their entirety (not that i personally care if that happens or not, so long as a degree of localised control of laws is retained) is fantasy and scaremongering of the worst kind.

 

I've got to be honest i've never really understood nationalism though, to celebrate an accident of birth as something special is pretty bloody odd. To celebrate a culture and history is fine, likewise to accept it's failings and problems is fine too, but to pretend that people are fundamentally different because they happened to be born somewhere? I'll never really get that.

 

It’s scaremongering to suggest that it’s being planned or will happen in the near future because it obviously isn’t going happen. But to say it’s the direction we are heading, all be it to an extreme and unlikely outcome, could be considered fair considering how much the EU has changed. There just seems to be an usnstoppable inertia towards the EU getting more and more power.

 

I’m not a nationalist, I just don’t like what the EU has become. It should be every country’s right to control who goes in or out, the idea of fee-movement is fine but if country’s are experiencing mass net immigration they should be given the option of some sort of controls. When Cameron was told to get lost when he tried to get a temporary brake it showed how little control we have about what is decided in Brussels and how democratic it is.

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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted (edited)
It’s scaremongering to suggest that it’s being planned or will happen in the near future because it obviously isn’t going happen. But to say it’s the direction we are heading, all be it to an extreme and unlikely outcome, could be considered fair considering how much the EU has changed. There just seems to be an usnstoppable inertia towards the EU getting more and more power.

 

I’m not a nationalist, I just don’t like what the EU has become. It should be every country’s right to control who goes in or out, the idea of fee-movement is fine but if country’s are experiencing mass net immigration they should be given the option of some sort of controls. When Cameron was told to get lost when he tried to get a temporary brake it showed how little control we have about what is decided in Brussels and how democratic it is.

 

The problem with your post is that it’s not true. Like so many pro Brexit posts it betrays a deep ignorance of how the EU works. Any country has the right to deport anybody who after three months has not secured a job or can prove they have independent income which doesn’t require accessing state benefits. The problem is simply that the UK has never implemented this. The British government prefers to blame the EU for a problem our government could fix but choose not to. But you know this already because you have been told numerous times before. You prefer what you feel over what you know.

Edited by buctootim
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aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted
The problem with your post is that it’s not true. Like so many pro Brexit posts it betrays a deep ignorance of how the EU works. Any country has the right to deport anybody who after three months has not secured a job or can prove they have indecent income which doesn’t require accessing state benefits. The problem is simply that the UK has never implanted this. The British government prefers to blame the EU for a problem out government could fix but choose not to.

 

Yeah I was aware of that.

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aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted (edited)
Did he vote leave, perchance?

 

No I didn't, I was leaning towards leave but didn't vote because it wasn't clear what I would be voting for.

 

My point was that our government went to Europe to try and get a temporary brake on the amount of immigration and it was told to get lost, had the EU shown bit more flexibility we wouldn't be in this mess. The benefits capability is not going to effect the influx of cheap labour which causes wage depression.

 

As I have said before I don’t have a huge problem with being in the EU, I just accept there has to be the free-movement thing. If Poland were experiencing mass immigration and their people were unhappy with it’s effects who are we to say you must let us in to get the benefits from living in their country? The sensible and right thing to do would be to listen to and act on the concerns of their population.

 

Immigration has been an issue for a lot of people at the last few general elections, whenever the subject was brought up the left branded them racists and the right blamed the EU. The referendum finally gave people the chance to actually do something about it.

 

Laughably, there was some EU guy on the TV the other day saying they couldn’t let the UK have controls on immigration because every country would want them. Democracy at it’s finest - can’t give people what they want!

 

Oh, and please don't quote dumb or dumber as I have these two scumbags on ignore.

Edited by aintforever
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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

Posted
Posted

https://twitter.com/maitlis/status/1095283424229765120

 

Before Xmas I was told by one senior cabinet minister that Mays plan was to keep delaying vote until there was no option left but her deal. Nothing I’ve seen since has made me think she’s come even an inch off course.The trips to Brussels /chats with labour are window dressing.

 

The only thing May’s watching is the calendar. When I asked if that could mean a vote right up to last week of March there was a hollow laugh and no denial. She is happy to indulge the “fantasies” of others. But don’t be fooled into thinking anyone is changing her mind.

 

Which begs the question Emily... As a senior BBC journalist, why have you waited nearly two months to reveal this information?

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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

Posted
Posted
It’s not really information, though is it? It’s pretty clear she’s running down the clock and trying to put a gun to Parliament’s head.

 

True, it's obvious to anyone that's what she is doing.

 

But an actual admission of this strategy by a cabinet minister to a senior BBC journalist is surely big news that shouldn't be suppressed?

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van Hanegem

van Hanegem

Posted
Posted
George Soros finally makes it clear how he sees the EU:

 

 

 

So, the guy that broke the Bank of England is bemoaning the fact that there is a chance that the EU will no longer be like the Soviet Union and we need to wake up. Jesus H Christ...

 

As long as snakes like that are rattled, things are looking bright for “the revolution”! ;)

One small problem though: you don’t want the Orban’s, Le Pen’s and Salvini’s to be in charge...

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Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

Posted
Posted
It’s not really information, though is it? It’s pretty clear she’s running down the clock and trying to put a gun to Parliament’s head.

 

But won't it likely be "My Interim Agreement", or "Delayed Brexit" rather than "No interim agreement". I bet the EU are working with May to this end as they want Parliament to approve the Interim Agreement with the threat of a no interim agreement that no-one wants. It will end up being May and the EU Leaders v Parliament. I think Parliament will win and there will be further delays, and so May and EU will have to re-think the legal text behind the backstop as May's current agreement will be dead in the water if it loses versus "no agreement".

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
Posted

An American article dealing with Brexit honestly some of the comments in the article leave me shaking my head

 

"We were great before we joined the EU. We'll great after we leave," said Julie Paris, 63, who was tending the bar at the Romford Snooker Club "It's been two years since we voted to leave, and I'm sick of talking about it. Even if our farmers took a hit, I'd still rather get out. The only thing the EU cares about is whether our cucumbers are straight and our bananas are curvy," Paris added,

 

"The amount of waste and nonsense that goes on in Brussels, it's crazy," said Willis, 70. The EU is headquartered in Belgium's capital. "And a lot of countries do very well from it: Ireland, Spain, the Greeks. But not Britain," he said.

"Our country is full-to-bursting," Willis said, in reference to another Brexiteer shibboleth

 

"I know it's a long time ago but one of the things that makes people bitter about the EU in this country is that people like my nan and grandad fought during World War II to stop the Germans from taking over and in the end the EU started taking over," said Scott, 45,

 

"When I decide to leave a party I get my coat and go. Right? I don't sit there thinking: 'Do I get a bus? A cab? A train? A this or that?,'" he said, referring to the prospect of a "no-deal" Brexit, which he welcomed. "I don't care how we leave, I just want to leave."

 

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/02/11/queen-has-a-brexit-escape-plan-how-bad-will-eu-exit-be/2799312002/

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Verbal

Verbal

Posted
Posted
An American article dealing with Brexit honestly some of the comments in the article leave me shaking my head

 

"We were great before we joined the EU. We'll great after we leave," said Julie Paris, 63, who was tending the bar at the Romford Snooker Club "It's been two years since we voted to leave, and I'm sick of talking about it. Even if our farmers took a hit, I'd still rather get out. The only thing the EU cares about is whether our cucumbers are straight and our bananas are curvy," Paris added,

 

"The amount of waste and nonsense that goes on in Brussels, it's crazy," said Willis, 70. The EU is headquartered in Belgium's capital. "And a lot of countries do very well from it: Ireland, Spain, the Greeks. But not Britain," he said.

"Our country is full-to-bursting," Willis said, in reference to another Brexiteer shibboleth

 

"I know it's a long time ago but one of the things that makes people bitter about the EU in this country is that people like my nan and grandad fought during World War II to stop the Germans from taking over and in the end the EU started taking over," said Scott, 45,

 

"When I decide to leave a party I get my coat and go. Right? I don't sit there thinking: 'Do I get a bus? A cab? A train? A this or that?,'" he said, referring to the prospect of a "no-deal" Brexit, which he welcomed. "I don't care how we leave, I just want to leave."

 

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/02/11/queen-has-a-brexit-escape-plan-how-bad-will-eu-exit-be/2799312002/

 

And so, once again, every plausible-sounding argument against the idea that Brexiters are stupid is trashed.

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saint si

saint si

Posted
Posted
"When I decide to leave a party I get my coat and go. Right? I don't sit there thinking: 'Do I get a bus? A cab? A train? A this or that?,'" he said, referring to the prospect of a "no-deal" Brexit, which he welcomed. "I don't care how we leave, I just want to leave."

 

This is possibly the best (worst) use of an analogy I've ever heard.

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted (edited)
But won't it likely be "My Interim Agreement", or "Delayed Brexit" rather than "No interim agreement". I bet the EU are working with May to this end as they want Parliament to approve the Interim Agreement with the threat of a no interim agreement that no-one wants. It will end up being May and the EU Leaders v Parliament. I think Parliament will win and there will be further delays, and so May and EU will have to re-think the legal text behind the backstop as May's current agreement will be dead in the water if it loses versus "no agreement".

 

Maybe, though at this stage, I don't think the EU is opposed to Parliament playing a larger role in negotiations. Indeed it may just be the 'shock' that breaks the impasse and opens up new options which May's mix of deception, inflexibility and indecision is unlikely to achieve. It may also worsen problems; but the EU won't know that until it gives it a go. And if it ends in further gridlock, it arguably only brings a second referendum a bit closer (which the EU would support).

 

In reality, it's hard to see how anyone would grant the concessions that the jihadists are demanding. No amount of rethinking on the backstop is therefore likely to do the trick save May and the EU tearing it up for all practical purposes. They are demands, made in bad faith, designed to call May's bluff and distract from the fact that the swivels have everything to lose in a May's WA or delayed Brexit situation. The problem for May is that her deal needs more than the support of a few swivels and other groups are quite happy if Brexit is delayed.

 

Of course, nobody knows whether Olly Robbins revelation earlier this week is legit - May's shown very little evidence of putting the national interest ahead of political vanity and the pointless quest for Tory party unity. With the clock ticking, I suspect MPs and ministers will be in no mood to take any more chances and will therefore push through Parliament the legislation that narrowly failed last month.

Edited by shurlock
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Verbal

Verbal

Posted
Posted

So after dire warnings from Airbus, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar Land Rover and, this week, Ford - and actions by all of them to prepare for abandoning some or all British production - we've had a procession of Brexit dumbasses telling us how they know better, and that the experts who actually run these companies don't know what they're talking about.

 

This is all deeply reminiscent of the last time exert opinion was trashed in the reckless pursuit of cretinous political objectives. I remember how, in the lead-up to the 'coalition' invasion of Iraq, UN weapons inspectors and other military and logistics experts, who found no evidence of chemical weapons, were trashed by know-it-better politicians and their 'dossiers' which proved otherwise.

 

We all know how that turned out. I suppose the sad symmetry is that while the dodgy dossier trumped the experts and ruined another country, the Brexit Jihadist rejection of experts this time will ruin ours.

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
So after dire warnings from Airbus, Nissan, Honda, Jaguar Land Rover and, this week, Ford - and actions by all of them to prepare for abandoning some or all British production - we've had a procession of Brexit dumbasses telling us how they know better, and that the experts who actually run these companies don't know what they're talking about.

 

This is all deeply reminiscent of the last time exert opinion was trashed in the reckless pursuit of cretinous political objectives. I remember how, in the lead-up to the 'coalition' invasion of Iraq, UN weapons inspectors and other military and logistics experts, who found no evidence of chemical weapons, were trashed by know-it-better politicians and their 'dossiers' which proved otherwise.

 

We all know how that turned out. I suppose the sad symmetry is that while the dodgy dossier trumped the experts and ruined another country, the Brexit Jihadist rejection of experts this time will ruin ours.

Being balanced here Ford moved the Transit from Southampton to Turkey when we were fully in the EU. Some of it is posturing to get money from the Government to keep them here, surely. I was told by someone at Fords 20-30years ago tht they didnt pay the NI as they threatened to leave if it was pushed to payit. It maybe bunkum but these big companies do know how to get financial payments.
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Verbal

Verbal

Posted
Posted
Being balanced here Ford moved the Transit from Southampton to Turkey when we were fully in the EU. Some of it is posturing to get money from the Government to keep them here, surely. I was told by someone at Fords 20-30years ago tht they didnt pay the NI as they threatened to leave if it was pushed to payit. It maybe bunkum but these big companies do know how to get financial payments.

 

So you post information that you yourself admit is probably bullsh it as 'balance'? Aside from the fact that the whole Ford/Turkey thing has been addressed in detail earlier in this thread, it is not 'balance' to imply that the views of all these manufacturers can safely be set aside because they are supposedly in pursuit of nebulous ulterior motives (at last according to someone 20-30 years ago).

 

All these companies are linked by the huge damage that would be caused by a tariff-strewn, paperwork-buried rupture in the supply chain. And no amount of supposedly mitigating crap - like the Jihadist claim that the UK will simply and unilaterally drop its tariff barriers - will solve it.

 

So you're at risk of being the target audience for Jihadists like Rees-Mogg and Baker, who want people to believe that what they say is actually true - that you can safely ignore the warnings from all these manufacturers and just act as if nothing really is happening.

 

And it's not just about companies taking fright that will cause them to leave. It's about other countries seizing the opportunity to grab companies from under our noses - something which Holland, France, Germany and Ireland are already well into doing.

 

Then there are the really big players and the effects they'll have on UK-based companies. If we ever get across the table with the US to negotiate a trade deal, one of the principal figures in that will be Wilbur Ross. Here, in chillingly brutal language, is the large-scale 'theft' he plans from the Brexit-enfeebled British economy:

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/27/brexit-is-a-god-given-opportunity-to-steal-trade-from-uk-wilbur-ross.html

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van Hanegem

van Hanegem

Posted
Posted
Immigration has been an issue for a lot of people at the last few general elections, whenever the subject was brought up the left branded them racists and the right blamed the EU. The referendum finally gave people the chance to actually do something about it.

 

Western Europe is not the only one suffering from open borders, some Eastern European countries suffer way more. Take Latvia for example, 15% of its population moved to Western Europe and they won’t come back. One third of its youth has gone, the well educated ones are deerly missed as they are the ones who should run the country in the future. All the investment in their education was useless for Latvia, imagine the problems they’re facing in the next 50 years...

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Tamesaint

Tamesaint

Posted
Posted (edited)

According to Liam Fox there were going to be up to 40 trade deals agreed and ready to be implemented as soon as we left the EU. It was his job to implement them and he had nearly 3 years to achieve this. With 6 weeks to go he has agreed just 4 deals... one of which is with the economic giant of the Faroe Islands!

 

If this wasn't so serious it would be laughable. Fox like David Davis, Boris Johnson and Failing Grayling is another leading Brexiteer who is finding that real life is not as he imagined it. It is just a pity that so many people have believed the Brexit fantasies of these chumps.

 

It is not all bad news however. One of the 4 trade deals is with Switzerland and Lietchtenstein. Lietchtenstein is the world's largest supplier of false teeth with 20% coming from there.... so most Brexiteers will be ok after Brexit!!!

Edited by Tamesaint
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Guided Missile

Guided Missile

Posted
  • Author
Posted
According to Liam Fox there were going to be at least 40 trade deals agreed and ready to be implemented as soon as we left the EU. It was his job to implement them and he had nearly 3 years to achieve this. With 6 weeks to go he has agreed just 4 deals... one of which is with the economic giant of the Faroe Islands!

 

If this wasn't so serious it would be laughable. Fox like David Davis, Boris Johnson and Failing Grayling is another leading Brexiteer who is finding that real life is not as he imagined it. It is just a pity that so many people have believed the Brexit fantasies of these chumps.

 

It is not all bad news however. One of the 4 trade deals is with Switzerland and Lietchtenstein. Lietchtenstein is the world's largest supplier of false teeth with 20% coming from there.... so most Brexiteers will be ok after Brexit!!!

 

A telltale sign of a complete amateur or fraud in this area is someone who blindly counts up the number of trade deals without interrogating their depth, focuses only on tariffs at the exclusion of nontrade barriers and reduces trade to trade in goods rather than trade in goods and services.

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Tamesaint

Tamesaint

Posted
Posted
Maybe I missed something but I didn't think we were allowed to sign independent trade deals whilst still an EU member? Negotiate, yes, but not sign until we leave?

 

Yes. It is like how football transfer deals cannot take place until the transfer window opens but deals are arranged so the transfer occurs as soon as the window opens. Fox promised that up to 40 trade deals would be ready and put in place 1 second after we left the EU.

 

I suppose that "up to 40 trade deals" is what he is achieving.... as 4 is "up to 40" lol but it does show that the incompetent buffoon's mouth is far greater than his ability.

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Tamesaint

Tamesaint

Posted
Posted
A telltale sign of a complete amateur or fraud in this area is someone who blindly counts up the number of trade deals without interrogating their depth, focuses only on tariffs at the exclusion of nontrade barriers and reduces trade to trade in goods rather than trade in goods and services.

 

I suppose you are right. Last year we sold £6 million of exports to the Faroe Islands. That may seem a lot to tin pot companies selling poison in Fareham but deals like this are not going to keep the British economy going.

 

Put me back on ignore as you just make yourself look even more foolish

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Guided Missile

Guided Missile

Posted
  • Author
Posted
I suppose you are right. Last year we sold £6 million of exports to the Faroe Islands. That may seem a lot to tin pot companies selling poison in Fareham but deals like this are not going to keep the British economy going.

 

Put me back on ignore as you just make yourself look even more foolish

My reply to you, sh!t for brains, was a copy of a one I received from shurlock on this thread where he was commenting on my point regarding the relatively few trade deals the EU had completed.

 

If only we were as quick and successful as the EU, at negotiating trade deals....

A telltale sign of a complete amateur or fraud in this area is someone who blindly counts up the number of trade deals without interrogating their depth, focuses only on tariffs at the exclusion of nontrade barriers and reduces trade to trade in goods rather than trade in goods and services.

Other things being equal, deeper and more comprehensive trade deals which encompass nontrade barriers and services take significantly longer -and larger entities with greater clout, in turn, stand a better chance of securing concessions in these highly contested and protected areas. Try viewing the world in its complexity rather than through the eyes of a provincial micro-businessman, John.

 

So, having made you look like a complete tool, you are back on ignore....:lol:

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Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

Posted
Posted
My reply to you, sh!t for brains, was a copy of a one I received from shurlock on this thread where he was commenting on my point regarding the relatively few trade deals the EU had completed.

 

 

 

 

So, having made you look like a complete tool, you are back on ignore....:lol:

 

The point is correct, however if you interrogate the deals made they are all small fry aren't they?

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Tamesaint

Tamesaint

Posted
Posted
My reply to you, sh!t for brains, was a copy of a one I received from shurlock on this thread where he was commenting on my point regarding the relatively few trade deals the EU had completed.

 

 

 

 

So, having made you look like a complete tool, you are back on ignore....:lol:

 

Really ?? You clearly have limited abilities and can prove that you can quote other posters. Wow! If qualifications in cutting and pasting had existed perhaps you would not have flunked your A levels and could have studied somewhere better than Pompey Polytechnic.

 

Do you have any views on the ineptitude of Dr Fox or are you going to pretend that I am on ignore?

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Verbal

Verbal

Posted
Posted
You may well be a grade 1 arrogant c nut but very occasionally you make excellent comments!!

 

You're correct up to the conjunction. From then on you've lost me.

 

Not that it matters. The delicate flower has everyone on here but himself on ignore. Or so he says. This seems like a thing now among the cult (and terminally incoherent fellow-travellers): not only to put people on ignore, but to tell them, as if it's going to really put a kink in their day. It's all so freakishly weird.

 

So leaving the anti-Nostradamus aside, this is a really succinct take on the biggest political problem in reaching a settled state for Brexit from Stephen Bush (trigger warning to Jihadists: Bush is not white, so his views will be discounted)

 

The major problem with any resolution to the Brexit crisis: there is a parliamentary majority consisting of the bulk of the Conservative Party, the DUP and 10 to 30 Labour MPs, but it can only cohere around a set of demands that cannot be achieved via negotiation with the European Union.

 

Quite..

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
That does seem fair - I assume Brexiteers will be happy to do that as well.

 

Terry Christian has always been an idiot.

 

How ironic that the European Court of Human Rights has judged that discrimination on the basis of political views is, in fact, not fair at all.

 

https://www.pureemploymentlaw.co.uk/protection-from-discrimination-on-the-grounds-of-political-views/

 

Let's hope that Terry the idiot will be be naming the 'at least three' companies that he knows that have decided to break the law ;)

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Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

Posted
Posted
Terry Christian has always been an idiot.

 

How ironic that the European Court of Human Rights has judged that discrimination on the basis of political views is, in fact, not fair at all.

 

https://www.pureemploymentlaw.co.uk/protection-from-discrimination-on-the-grounds-of-political-views/

 

Let's hope that Terry the idiot will be be naming the 'at least three' companies that he knows that have decided to break the law ;)

 

See, I'd just sack the lowest performing and poorest educated - that way the majority of those sacked is bound to be "leave" voters.

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
Western Europe is not the only one suffering from open borders, some Eastern European countries suffer way more. Take Latvia for example, 15% of its population moved to Western Europe and they won’t come back. One third of its youth has gone, the well educated ones are deerly missed as they are the ones who should run the country in the future. All the investment in their education was useless for Latvia, imagine the problems they’re facing in the next 50 years...

 

On the plus side, this enabled me to rodger a hot Latvian for a bit in Soton, circa. 2005.

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
You're correct up to the conjunction. From then on you've lost me.

 

Not that it matters. The delicate flower has everyone on here but himself on ignore. Or so he says. This seems like a thing now among the cult (and terminally incoherent fellow-travellers): not only to put people on ignore, but to tell them, as if it's going to really put a kink in their day. It's all so freakishly weird.

 

So leaving the anti-Nostradamus aside, this is a really succinct take on the biggest political problem in reaching a settled state for Brexit from Stephen Bush (trigger warning to Jihadists: Bush is not white, so his views will be discounted)

 

The major problem with any resolution to the Brexit crisis: there is a parliamentary majority consisting of the bulk of the Conservative Party, the DUP and 10 to 30 Labour MPs, but it can only cohere around a set of demands that cannot be achieved via negotiation with the European Union.

 

Quite..

 

If that is true, which I think it probably is, then May's strategy of pushing them to the wire seems a sound one.

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