Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Jonnyboy]

I've not really got an 'argument', to be fair. Just saying there's no Brexit plan so it's ok not to have a remain plan is a bit disappointing. I was genuinely hoping you would be able to point to something that's says ..we are the EU, this is what we are going to do. Short, medium and long term. Then I can weigh that up against the pro's and con's of Brexits sovereignty stance. Simple high level stuff, like the EU will invest in the UK car/manufacturing/service industries to increase our global competitiveness . Maybe the EU are going improve the UK infrastructure or health service. How about a policy aimed at poverty or workers rights. There must be something that the EU stands for? Stuff that it hasn't done yet, but it want to do.

 

Honestly, I'm not trying to pick a fight but you can't point and laugh at thickie brexiteers without at least being able to offer them an alternative. Even if it's, no change here, as you were.

 

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How about this one?

 

[stug76]

Jesus wept. Jesus effing wept.

Nice. If I'd have posted a thousand messages, I couldn't have made my point more succinctly than you have just done it for me.

 

So come on then, give me the low down. Because these are the issues that affect people. Seeing JLR move it's manufacturing across to another EU country, and you can argue the semantics of whether it's a direct EU subsidy or not all day long. The affect of EU nationals using the NHS, it doesn't matter if they contribute or not - if the capacity isn't there it has to be addressed. The N.I. border, financial services, all the issues that have been discussed as a part of brexit. The argument was that Brexiteers had no plan. What's the plan for the Remainers? As I said, I'd be happy with someone just to point to a document that said 'continue as we are' something that justifies the notion that Brexiteers were the only one without a plan.

 

 

 

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[doddisalegend]

Nice. If I'd have posted a thousand messages, I couldn't have made my point more succinctly than you have just done it for me.

 

So come on then, give me the low down. Because these are the issues that affect people. Seeing JLR move it's manufacturing across to another EU country, and you can argue the semantics of whether it's a direct EU subsidy or not all day long. The affect of EU nationals using the NHS, it doesn't matter if they contribute or not - if the capacity isn't there it has to be addressed. The N.I. border, financial services, all the issues that have been discussed as a part of brexit. The argument was that Brexiteers had no plan. What's the plan for the Remainers? As I said, I'd be happy with someone just to point to a document that said 'continue as we are' something that justifies the notion that Brexiteers were the only one without a plan.

 

 

 

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why do you need a plan to carry on the Status Quo? ...the answer is you don't. The reason Leave needed a plan is because they where changing things Remain didn't need a plan to carry on as before that should be pretty evident to anyone....

[CB Fry]

Nice. If I'd have posted a thousand messages, I couldn't have made my point more succinctly than you have just done it for me.

 

So come on then, give me the low down. Because these are the issues that affect people. Seeing JLR move it's manufacturing across to another EU country, and you can argue the semantics of whether it's a direct EU subsidy or not all day long. The affect of EU nationals using the NHS, it doesn't matter if they contribute or not - if the capacity isn't there it has to be addressed. The N.I. border, financial services, all the issues that have been discussed as a part of brexit. The argument was that Brexiteers had no plan. What's the plan for the Remainers? As I said, I'd be happy with someone just to point to a document that said 'continue as we are' something that justifies the notion that Brexiteers were the only one without a plan.

 

 

 

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Yes I agree. What an absolute disgrace that the remain campaign didn't set out in clear terms their specific plan for dealing with the Irish border issue in the event of us remaining in the EU. How remiss of them. Where was the plan I ask you? Where was the fu cking plan for the Irish border if remain won? No plan, that's what. No plan. Disgrace.

[LGTL]

Nice. If I'd have posted a thousand messages, I couldn't have made my point more succinctly than you have just done it for me.

 

So come on then, give me the low down. Because these are the issues that affect people. Seeing JLR move it's manufacturing across to another EU country, and you can argue the semantics of whether it's a direct EU subsidy or not all day long. The affect of EU nationals using the NHS, it doesn't matter if they contribute or not - if the capacity isn't there it has to be addressed. The N.I. border, financial services, all the issues that have been discussed as a part of brexit. The argument was that Brexiteers had no plan. What's the plan for the Remainers? As I said, I'd be happy with someone just to point to a document that said 'continue as we are' something that justifies the notion that Brexiteers were the only one without a plan.

 

 

 

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Are you seriously asking what the plan was for the NI border if we STAYED in the European Union?!

 

Wow.

[stug76]

Yes I agree. What an absolute disgrace that the remain campaign didn't set out in clear terms their specific plan for dealing with the Irish border issue in the event of us remaining in the EU. How remiss of them. Where was the plan I ask you? Where was the fu cking plan for the Irish border if remain won? No plan, that's what. No plan. Disgrace.

Yeah, lol, sorry! Not concentrating. Anyway, what about the rest of it? If we remain in the EU, what was the stated 3?, 5? 10???? year plan that shows how remain had a plan and Brexit didn't. Like I said not trying to start a fight, something simple, it must be easy to show me something. (Even keeping the status quo is a plan.) Every successful organisation will have a plan.

 

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[Unbelievable Jeff]

Yeah, lol, sorry! Not concentrating. Anyway, what about the rest of it? If we remain in the EU, what was the stated 3?, 5? 10???? year plan that shows how remain had a plan and Brexit didn't. Like I said not trying to start a fight, something simple, it must be easy to show me something. (Even keeping the status quo is a plan.) Every successful organisation will have a plan.

 

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What plan with financial services? We had the best people, working in the best institutions. No-one wanted to leave London?

 

Car makers would have stayed for the reasons they have for years - **** off massive subsidies from the Government.

 

The NHS is struggling due to continual underfunding under the last 3 or 4 governments - and now we're saying 63000 NHS workers, or 6% of total staff, are no longer welcome here. It's going to get a lot worse...

 

I agree, you're not trying to start a fight, and you clearly aren't concentrating because all you're demonstrating is a misunderstanding of what the status quo is, what the EU does, and what Brexit means.

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

The NHS is struggling due to continual underfunding under the last 3 or 4 governments - and now we're saying 63000 NHS workers, or 6% of total staff, are no longer welcome here. It's going to get a lot worse...

 

Pony.

 

You just made that up. Nobody is saying people aren’t welcome.

 

 

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[stug76]

What plan with financial services? We had the best people, working in the best institutions. No-one wanted to leave London?

 

Car makers would have stayed for the reasons they have for years - **** off massive subsidies from the Government.

 

The NHS is struggling due to continual underfunding under the last 3 or 4 governments - and now we're saying 63000 NHS workers, or 6% of total staff, are no longer welcome here. It's going to get a lot worse...

 

I agree, you're not trying to start a fight, and you clearly aren't concentrating because all you're demonstrating is a misunderstanding of what the status quo is, what the EU does, and what Brexit means.

At last!

 

Just to remind all where I jumped in, it was the criticism of a lack of plan from Brexiteers, and all I wanted was proof of a plan from Remainers to keep a level playing field, to justify the criticism. Jeff's had a go, thanks Jeff, now all I'd like to satisfy my curiosity is a policy statement, or maybe a manifesto that just says in simple terms 'we are the EU, and this is what we are going to do. This is our direction. In the next X years we will achieve this'

 

Such a document must exist, surely! We can't just rely on blind faith. I've never known of any succesful business that doesn't have some form of plan.

 

 

 

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[CB Fry]

At last!

 

Just to remind all where I jumped in, it was the criticism of a lack of plan from Brexiteers, and all I wanted was proof of a plan from Remainers to keep a level playing field, to justify the criticism. Jeff's had a go, thanks Jeff, now all I'd like to satisfy my curiosity is a policy statement, or maybe a manifesto that just says in simple terms 'we are the EU, and this is what we are going to do. This is our direction. In the next X years we will achieve this'

 

Such a document must exist, surely! We can't just rely on blind faith. I've never known of any succesful business that doesn't have some form of plan.

 

 

 

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If you're that interested, read up on the EU and what it does. There's plenty out there.

 

But you're not that interested. All you want to do is draw an utterly ridiculous false equivalence making out the zero planning or strategic direction from the architects of Brexit is equal and opposite to the fairly straightforward maintenance of the status quo and returning to business as usual day to day politics if remain had won in 2016.

 

You've made your sh itty point, have a peanut.

 

Run along now. Off you go and read lots of EU literature about their objectives because you really want to know, right?

 

Let us know what you learn.

 

https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/eu-in-brief_en

[Unbelievable Jeff]

At last!

 

Just to remind all where I jumped in, it was the criticism of a lack of plan from Brexiteers, and all I wanted was proof of a plan from Remainers to keep a level playing field, to justify the criticism. Jeff's had a go, thanks Jeff, now all I'd like to satisfy my curiosity is a policy statement, or maybe a manifesto that just says in simple terms 'we are the EU, and this is what we are going to do. This is our direction. In the next X years we will achieve this'

 

Such a document must exist, surely! We can't just rely on blind faith. I've never known of any succesful business that doesn't have some form of plan.

 

 

 

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But the issue is EU Strategy has very little to do with what you are talking about there, so not sure what your point is? If you want to know what the EUs plans are for the future, I would suggest looking on their website(s).

 

What an odd few posts...

[buctootim]

At last!

 

Just to remind all where I jumped in, it was the criticism of a lack of plan from Brexiteers, and all I wanted was proof of a plan from Remainers to keep a level playing field, to justify the criticism. Jeff's had a go, thanks Jeff, now all I'd like to satisfy my curiosity is a policy statement, or maybe a manifesto that just says in simple terms 'we are the EU, and this is what we are going to do. This is our direction. In the next X years we will achieve this'

 

Such a document must exist, surely! We can't just rely on blind faith. I've never known of any succesful business that doesn't have some form of plan.

 

Do you have a plan setting out what staying with the same wife, staying in the same job and not moving house entails?

[Lord Duckhunter]

They have a plan, ever closer union.

 

 

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[saint si]

They have a plan, ever closer union. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Yes, we* voted for it in 1975.

 

*not me personally

[Wes Tender]

Yes, we* voted for it in 1975.

 

*not me personally

 

No. We didn't vote for ever closer union in 1975. We voted to stay in the Common Market. The change to ever closer union began with Maastricht, and they sure as hell didn't want us to be allowed to vote on that.

[saint si]

No. We didn't vote for ever closer union in 1975. We voted to stay in the Common Market. The change to ever closer union began with Maastricht, and they sure as hell didn't want us to be allowed to vote on that.

 

Treaty of Rome. 1957. It's literally the first sentence of the treaty.

 

https://ec.europa.eu/romania/sites/romania/files/tratatul_de_la_roma.pdf

[shurlock]

Treaty of Rome. 1957. It's literally the first sentence of the treaty.

 

https://ec.europa.eu/romania/sites/romania/files/tratatul_de_la_roma.pdf

 

Yep and the emphasis on “ever closer union of peoples” is critical. Nowhere in that sentence is the idea of a political union or union of governments -much less a big U union, pointing to some kind of institutionalised superstate. It’s one of the most misunderstood phrases in circulation but then again Brexiters misunderstand most things.

Edited 11 February, 2019 by shurlock

[Batman]

Yes, we* voted for it in 1975.

 

*not me personally

 

They didn’t know what they were voting for

[OldNick]

Yep and the emphasis on “ever closer union of peoples” is critical. Nowhere in that sentence is the idea of a political union or union of governments -much less a big U union, pointing to some kind of institutionalised superstate. It’s one of the most misunderstood phrases in circulation but then again Brexiters misunderstand most things.

To be fair in those days there wasnt the internet or so places to get the info. Shurlock you may well understand the undercurrent of the wording but I suspect the majority who were voting still had the memories of WWII ( it was only 30 years pre this time, the Falklands is further back to us now, 12 years after forthe initial treaty) and the wording is soft. It was done to deceive, if they had worded it in laymans terms the vote would have been different. The academics and politicians wanted it to happen and so joined in with the game imo

[stug76]

Do you have a plan setting out what staying with the same wife, staying in the same job and not moving house entails?

Jesus wept, Jesus effing wept! (Thanks CB Fry for that ;-) )

 

Isn't chosing staying with the same wife, staying in the same job and not moving house a plan? Couple that with a pension and some savings and your really getting somewhere! Funnily enough, we were talking the other day about moving, but decided that it's not the right time for us.

 

Come on people, help me here. I bet if you went down to the local WI, you could speak to the incumbent Presidentess(?) and they would be able to reveal what their plan was for their tenure. Are you seriously telling me that none of you can point me in the direction of something similar for the EU?

 

Ok, start at the beginning for me, what's the number one priority for the EU over and above the the EU itself? I'm trying to learn here guys, help me out!

 

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[Verbal]

Jesus wept, Jesus effing wept! (Thanks CB Fry for that ;-) )

 

Isn't chosing staying with the same wife, staying in the same job and not moving house a plan? Couple that with a pension and some savings and your really getting somewhere! Funnily enough, we were talking the other day about moving, but decided that it's not the right time for us.

 

Come on people, help me here. I bet if you went down to the local WI, you could speak to the incumbent Presidentess(?) and they would be able to reveal what their plan was for their tenure. Are you seriously telling me that none of you can point me in the direction of something similar for the EU?

 

Ok, start at the beginning for me, what's the number one priority for the EU over and above the the EU itself? I'm trying to learn here guys, help me out!

 

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The EU's priority 'over and above the EU' is to ignore trolling.

[CB Fry]

Jesus wept, Jesus effing wept! (Thanks CB Fry for that ;-) )

 

Isn't chosing staying with the same wife, staying in the same job and not moving house a plan? Couple that with a pension and some savings and your really getting somewhere! Funnily enough, we were talking the other day about moving, but decided that it's not the right time for us.

 

Come on people, help me here. I bet if you went down to the local WI, you could speak to the incumbent Presidentess(?) and they would be able to reveal what their plan was for their tenure. Are you seriously telling me that none of you can point me in the direction of something similar for the EU?

 

Ok, start at the beginning for me, what's the number one priority for the EU over and above the the EU itself? I'm trying to learn here guys, help me out!

 

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And he's still going.

[badgerx16]

And he's still going.

Yeh but, no but,........

[Mosin]

Jesus wept, Jesus effing wept! (Thanks CB Fry for that ;-) )

 

Isn't chosing staying with the same wife, staying in the same job and not moving house a plan? Couple that with a pension and some savings and your really getting somewhere! Funnily enough, we were talking the other day about moving, but decided that it's not the right time for us.

 

Come on people, help me here. I bet if you went down to the local WI, you could speak to the incumbent Presidentess(?) and they would be able to reveal what their plan was for their tenure. Are you seriously telling me that none of you can point me in the direction of something similar for the EU?

 

Ok, start at the beginning for me, what's the number one priority for the EU over and above the the EU itself? I'm trying to learn here guys, help me out!

 

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The plan for the EU is to turn it into the United States of Europe, so in time, we will have no votes ( as Eu will decide ) how we wipe are back sides ( EU will decide ) how we cook are chips ( EU will decide ) how powerful of hoover we buy ( EU will decide ) how much salt I put on my food, and so on, every little tiny thing you take for granted in life, the EU will decide for you, with out a vote of any sort from its people.

 

If we decide to stay, we will in time give up all of what we have worked to get in the UK, are rights and freedoms, the Memes we use online every thing will be gone, and we will be run like another Russia super state ( USSR ) dictatorship.

[doddisalegend]

And he's still going.

 

He is clearly on a wind up no one is that thick ….

[LGTL]

The plan for the EU is to turn it into the United States of Europe, so in time, we will have no votes ( as Eu will decide ) how we wipe are back sides ( EU will decide ) how we cook are chips ( EU will decide ) how powerful of hoover we buy ( EU will decide ) how much salt I put on my food, and so on, every little tiny thing you take for granted in life, the EU will decide for you, with out a vote of any sort from its people.

 

If we decide to stay, we will in time give up all of what we have worked to get in the UK, are rights and freedoms, the Memes we use online every thing will be gone, and we will be run like another Russia super state ( USSR ) dictatorship.

 

Do you think the EU can teach you the difference between 'are' and 'our' too?

[doddisalegend]

Do you think the EU can teach you the difference between 'are' and 'our' too?

 

Another reason to leave the EU the freedom to use "are" when you mean "our" Brussel's autocrats would never allow such freedom...

[badgerx16]

The plan for the EU is to turn it into the United States of Europe,.......

Even if that were true, would it be a completely mad idea to be part of a bloc with financial and political power in a world that is increasingly dominated by China, Russia ( and it's cronies ), and a self-interested United States ? In the real world, will Brexit truly increase our influence and level of respect among the international community ? Remember, the UK itself is an amalgamation of 4 previously unaligned territories with a long history of conflict.

Edited 11 February, 2019 by badgerx16

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Jesus wept, Jesus effing wept! (Thanks CB Fry for that ;-) )

 

Isn't chosing staying with the same wife, staying in the same job and not moving house a plan? Couple that with a pension and some savings and your really getting somewhere! Funnily enough, we were talking the other day about moving, but decided that it's not the right time for us.

 

Come on people, help me here. I bet if you went down to the local WI, you could speak to the incumbent Presidentess(?) and they would be able to reveal what their plan was for their tenure. Are you seriously telling me that none of you can point me in the direction of something similar for the EU?

 

Ok, start at the beginning for me, what's the number one priority for the EU over and above the the EU itself? I'm trying to learn here guys, help me out!

 

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I'm pretty sure that we told you to look at the EUs website - so go and have a look.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Another reason to leave the EU the freedom to use "are" when you mean "our" Brussel's autocrats would never allow such freedom...

 

..and rightly so. I've seen people stabbed for less than that outrageous use of the English language.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

https://news.sky.com/story/government-to-miss-brexit-trade-deal-target-11634661

 

Predictable...

[Mosin]

..and rightly so. I've seen people stabbed for less than that outrageous use of the English language.

 

Stabbed for bad English? Only in the mind of Remainers yeah LOL you do know you have been hinted you voted to stay in the EU right? most none UK folk don't use proper grammar and / or spelling? you sure you are on the right side? or you just a rich stuck up snob who cant afford UK produce? most people get stabbed cause they look at some one wrong, disrespect them, talk ill of the family, queen or country, owe drug money, walk in wrong area, wrong place wrong time, but never have I heard of any one in the history of humankind be stabbed for make a spelling mistake or for having bad grammar.

 

 

 

REMAINERS FOR YOU....

Edited 11 February, 2019 by Mosin

[Plastic]

Stabbed for bad English? Only in the mind of Remainers yeah LOL you do know you have been hinted you voted to stay in the EU right? most none UK folk don't use proper grammar and / or spelling? you sure you are on the right side? or you just a rich stuck up snob who cant afford UK produce? most people get stabbed cause they look at some one wrong, disrespect them, talk ill of the family, queen or country, owe drug money, walk in wrong area, wrong place wrong time, but never have I heard of any one in the history of humankind be stabbed for make a spelling mistake or for having bad grammar.

 

 

 

REMAINERS FOR YOU....

 

This guy knows his stuff. I got stabbed because I owed drug money. Dealer didn’t seem bothered that I used a verb in place of a determiner.

[Verbal]

Stabbed for bad English? Only in the mind of Remainers yeah LOL you do know you have been hinted you voted to stay in the EU right? most none UK folk don't use proper grammar and / or spelling? you sure you are on the right side? or you just a rich stuck up snob who cant afford UK produce? most people get stabbed cause they look at some one wrong, disrespect them, talk ill of the family, queen or country, owe drug money, walk in wrong area, wrong place wrong time, but never have I heard of any one in the history of humankind be stabbed for make a spelling mistake or for having bad grammar.

 

 

 

REMAINERS FOR YOU....

 

Excuse me Moses, but I think Jeffrey was being sarky - at least I hope for your sake he was, given the state of this.

 

On to more pressing matters, this is an excellent piece on how other countries in the EU will asset-strip key bits of the British economy. The astonishing collapse that's already happened since June 2016, in inward investment and manufacturing investment in general in the UK, is just the canary in the coal mine.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/07/no-deal-brexit-medieval-siege-eu-britain-industries?CMP=share_btn_tw

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Stabbed for bad English? Only in the mind of Remainers yeah LOL you do know you have been hinted you voted to stay in the EU right? most none UK folk don't use proper grammar and / or spelling? you sure you are on the right side? or you just a rich stuck up snob who cant afford UK produce? most people get stabbed cause they look at some one wrong, disrespect them, talk ill of the family, queen or country, owe drug money, walk in wrong area, wrong place wrong time, but never have I heard of any one in the history of humankind be stabbed for make a spelling mistake or for having bad grammar.

 

 

 

REMAINERS FOR YOU....

 

I said "stabbed for less". Learn to read.

 

The rest of this is just a complete mess.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Excuse me Moses, but I think Jeffrey was being sarky - at least I hope for your sake he was, given the state of this.

 

On to more pressing matters, this is an excellent piece on how other countries in the EU will asset-strip key bits of the British economy. The astonishing collapse that's already happened since June 2016, in inward investment and manufacturing investment in general in the UK, is just the canary in the coal mine.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/07/no-deal-brexit-medieval-siege-eu-britain-industries?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

Thoroughly depressing reading there.

[Weston Super Saint]

..and rightly so. I've seen people stabbed for less than that outrageous use of the English language.

 

It's almost like you're condoning violence

[saint si]

The plan for the EU is to turn it into the United States of Europe, so in time, we will have no votes ( as Eu will decide ) how we wipe are back sides ( EU will decide ) how we cook are chips ( EU will decide ) how powerful of hoover we buy ( EU will decide ) how much salt I put on my food, and so on, every little tiny thing you take for granted in life, the EU will decide for you, with out a vote of any sort from its people.

 

If we decide to stay, we will in time give up all of what we have worked to get in the UK, are rights and freedoms, the Memes we use online every thing will be gone, and we will be run like another Russia super state ( USSR ) dictatorship.

 

And leavers have the temerity to accuse pro-EU folks of "project fear"...

[Lord Duckhunter]

I wish AC Wailing, Adonis, Sloshbry, Grieve or one of the other remoaners would have a word with that dopey bird who keeps getting her kit off for Remain. Put me off my cornflakes this morning, she needs a razor it’s 2019 not 1973. Horrific...

 

 

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[aintforever]

Has Theresa actually come up with any alternative arrangements for NI yet?

[ericb]

There's plenty of pro Leave arguments i can understand but the idea that the EU is somehow planning on becoming a united states of Europe one doesn't make sense to me.

 

First off it'd never happen and most countries and people wouldn't be interested in it happening, there's also little to no evidence to support the claim and most of it seems to be either hyperbole or conspiracy.

 

Secondly does it even actually matter? Nationalism is a pretty outdated concept if you think about it sensibly and the ability to travel freely, work where you want, have full access to health care and benefits anywhere in a block of 27 countries is pretty f*cking cool (and desirable).

[Guided Missile]

George Soros finally makes it clear how he sees the EU:

 

Mr Soros warned that Eurosceptic parties were on the rise across Europe and now enjoyed a "competitive advantage". Issuing a rallying cry to those who support the European project, he added: "The people of Europe need to wake up before it is too late. If they don’t, the European Union will go the way of the Soviet Union in 1991. Neither our leaders nor ordinary citizens seem to understand that we are experiencing a revolutionary moment, that the range of possibilities is very broad, and that the eventual outcome is thus highly uncertain."

 

So, the guy that broke the Bank of England is bemoaning the fact that there is a chance that the EU will no longer be like the Soviet Union and we need to wake up. Jesus H Christ...

[aintforever]

There's plenty of pro Leave arguments i can understand but the idea that the EU is somehow planning on becoming a united states of Europe one doesn't make sense to me.

 

First off it'd never happen and most countries and people wouldn't be interested in it happening, there's also little to no evidence to support the claim and most of it seems to be either hyperbole or conspiracy.

 

Secondly does it even actually matter? Nationalism is a pretty outdated concept if you think about it sensibly and the ability to travel freely, work where you want, have full access to health care and benefits anywhere in a block of 27 countries is pretty f*cking cool (and desirable).

 

Oh come on, the direction of travel is pretty clear when you look at what the EU started off as and what it is today.

[ericb]

Oh come on, the direction of travel is pretty clear when you look at what the EU started off as and what it is today.

 

Certainly be closer ties and shared resources, can't disagree with that, but to replace nations in their entirety (not that i personally care if that happens or not, so long as a degree of localised control of laws is retained) is fantasy and scaremongering of the worst kind.

 

I've got to be honest i've never really understood nationalism though, to celebrate an accident of birth as something special is pretty bloody odd. To celebrate a culture and history is fine, likewise to accept it's failings and problems is fine too, but to pretend that people are fundamentally different because they happened to be born somewhere? I'll never really get that.

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

Secondly does it even actually matter? Nationalism is a pretty outdated concept if you think about it sensibly and the ability to travel freely, work where you want, have full access to health care and benefits anywhere in a block of 27 countries is pretty f*cking cool (and desirable).

 

Is it pretty f*cking cool that an African or Asian is treated differently than a Dane or Dutchman?

 

 

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[saint si]

Is it pretty f*cking cool that an African or Asian is treated differently than a Dane or Dutchman?

 

 

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That's more of a question for the UK government and than home office than for the EU

[doddisalegend]

Is it pretty f*cking cool that an African or Asian is treated differently than a Dane or Dutchman?

 

 

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What you mean like being members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations or African Union....

 

It's not like Europe has a monopoly on greater geographical political and economic unions you know.

 

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[benjii]

Is it pretty f*cking cool that an African or Asian is treated differently than a Dane or Dutchman?

 

 

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Yes, it's about reciprocity.

[shurlock]

Yes, it's about reciprocity.

 

Bingo.

[badgerx16]

Certainly be closer ties and shared resources, can't disagree with that, but to replace nations in their entirety (not that i personally care if that happens or not, so long as a degree of localised control of laws is retained) is fantasy and scaremongering of the worst kind.

 

I've got to be honest i've never really understood nationalism though, to celebrate an accident of birth as something special is pretty bloody odd. To celebrate a culture and history is fine, likewise to accept it's failings and problems is fine too, but to pretend that people are fundamentally different because they happened to be born somewhere? I'll never really get that.

You are either a traitor or a quisling, or both. ; -)