Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[John B]

I'm not trying to be difficult, nor am I looking for an argument, but I thought that a 'no deal' Brexit automatically meant WTO rules, in which case we must apply tariffs equally across the board; we would not be able to set different levels for EU and non-EU trade due to MFN rules.

( Now, if you can post a sensible response explaining where I am mis-understanding things, and you can avoid your default position of always adding an insult, I would appreciate the opportuninty to better understand the situation ).

 

EDIT;

After re-reading the quoted text, I think I understand where my misunderstanding arose. However, being an IT security consultant with a degree in Microbiology, economics is not my specialist subject of choice.

 

People now seem to be experts in WTO rules which seem very difficult to suddenly move to

 

I just read this https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/27/uk-cannot-simply-trade-on-wto-terms-after-no-deal-brexit-say-experts

 

Which is quite interesting

[CB Fry]

It's hard not to insult you when the WTO rules as they apply post Brexit are explained in the links I posted, but as you can't be bothered to read them, I'll explain. We can apply whatever tariffs we chose, up to the maximum allowed under WTO rules. Whatever level we chose, we have to impose the same tariff levels to MFN's (Most Favoured Nations), unless it is with a nation with which we have a trade agreement, where the tariffs are determined in that agreement.

Countries usually impose tariffs when they seek to protect their domestic producers.

In the case of oranges, there is no reason to impose the EU level of tariffs on imported oranges, for instance, which means that we charge zero tariffs on Spanish oranges, as we do at the moment, but we then have to charge zero to MFN's which are likely to have more efficient orange producers, thus our costs go down.

So, we are leaving an area that is laughingly called a free trade area, when it should be called a protectionist trade area, which uses both tariffs and regulatory barriers to protect, for instance, inefficient French farmers.

The cheaper food we will enjoy will benefit the low income families more than the middle class liberals like you. It is just, like you, most are not clever enough to see through the EU and believe all they read in the Guardian.

Now, back on ignore for being lazy and thick....

Jesús lloró, as the Spanish Orange growers say.

[Guided Missile]

The Heath government accepted on our behalf a permanent elevation of about 15% in food prices as part of the cost of entering the EEC. And this elevation of prices has persisted, with a more recent estimate that the price of food in the UK is at least 17% more expensive than it would be outside the EU (Gerard Lyons and Liam Halligan, Clean Brexit, Policy Exchange, January 2017, p10.)

So, effectively, we pay to import more expensive food than we would if we were outside the EU. Why would the French farmers bother to be more efficient when they are paid to not have to?

So, net contributors and spongers:

 

[Guided Missile]

Mummy, why do most countries in the EU not want to leave...

[Guided Missile]

...and why do none of them want the UK to leave.

[Guided Missile]

People now seem to be experts in WTO rules which seem very difficult to suddenly move to

 

I just read this https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/27/uk-cannot-simply-trade-on-wto-terms-after-no-deal-brexit-say-experts

 

Which is quite interesting

I loved this part of the article:

The ensuing chaos could double food prices and plunge Britain into a recession that could last up to 30 years, claim the lawyers who acted for Gina Miller in the historic case that forced the government to seek parliament’s approval to leave the EU.

I stopped reading after this cr@p...

[Guided Missile]

Nuclear war fear over Y2K bug

19 December 1999

 

Read all about it, here...

 

The Government is to send teams of millennium bug busters to locations around the world in an attempt to warn Britons of the possible dangers they face as the clock strikes midnight on New Year's Eve, writes Jo Dillon .

A special unit in the Foreign Office, staffed by three teams each of nine people, will be manning a 24-hour operation to field information from countries where the millennium comes earlier than in the UK. Reports giving details of any difficulties experienced abroad to the east are expected to reach London by noon on New Year's Eve.

British nationals abroad will be able to call on the services of a special "consular emergency unit", which will be on 24-hour standby, should they experience difficulties.

Russia and America are starting up an unprecedented joint early warning system this week, amid fears that the millennium bug could start a nuclear war.

Top brass from both sides will watch missile warning screens side by side in a specially constructed building until a week after the new year. They will try to detect false alarms from computer glitches, and avoid launching nuclear strikes in response.

But leading experts - including Nobel Peace Prize-winners and one of America's most distinguished bomb designers - says this does not go far enough, and are campaigning for Presidents Yeltsin and Clinton to deactivate their nuclear arsenals over the turn of the year.

 

[Winnersaint]

It's hard not to insult you when the WTO rules as they apply post Brexit are explained in the links I posted, but as you can't be bothered to read them, I'll explain. We can apply whatever tariffs we chose, up to the maximum allowed under WTO rules. Whatever level we chose, we have to impose the same tariff levels to MFN's (Most Favoured Nations), unless it is with a nation with which we have a trade agreement, where the tariffs are determined in that agreement.

Countries usually impose tariffs when they seek to protect their domestic producers.

In the case of oranges, there is no reason to impose the EU level of tariffs on imported oranges, for instance, which means that we charge zero tariffs on Spanish oranges, as we do at the moment, but we then have to charge zero to MFN's which are likely to have more efficient orange producers, thus our costs go down.

So, we are leaving an area that is laughingly called a free trade area, when it should be called a protectionist trade area, which uses both tariffs and regulatory barriers to protect, for instance, inefficient French farmers.

The cheaper food we will enjoy will benefit the low income families more than the middle class liberals like you. It is just, like you, most are not clever enough to see through the EU and believe all they read in the Guardian.

Now, back on ignore for being lazy and thick....

 

Jeez you are one rude f*u*c*k*e*r. You seem unable to make a point without insulting people because they do not agree with your view. Interested to know if the economy does tank how you'd respond. It might not, I agree, but you seem to be absolutely certain that it won't. How so, are you clairvoyant.

Secondly perhaps you or Lord D*i*c*k*hunter could explain the benefits of an alt right agenda in our political life? How it works for 'Joe Public' as that's what both of you seem to yearn for. Love from a middle class liberal! /

[shurlock]

Jeez you are one rude f*u*c*k*e*r. You seem unable to make a point without insulting people because they do not agree with your view. Interested to know if the economy does tank how you'd respond. It might not, I agree, but you seem to be absolutely certain that it won't. How so, are you clairvoyant.

Secondly perhaps you or Lord D*i*c*k*hunter could explain the benefits of an alt right agenda in our political life? How it works for 'Joe Public' as that's what both of you seem to yearn for. Love from a middle class liberal! /

 

Credible estimates suggest that the hit to the British economy from the referendum result has been about 2% of GDP -or £35bn. And Brexit hasn't even happened yet - never mind the type of disorderly exit that the swivels are now positively championing.

 

Still as long as we get cheap oranges (and gravel), it'll all be fine

[badgerx16]

Now, back on ignore for being lazy and thick....

Coming from a self confessed moron........

( Now, just in case I am actually on ignore, can somebody please quote this post ).

[CB Fry]

Coming from a self confessed moron........

( Now, just in case I am actually on ignore, can somebody please quote this post ).

You're not on ignore.

 

Just one of the things Guided Missile is famous for on this forum: pretending he has loads of people on ignore, being freakishly rude to people, still thinking we are living in 1973 and being embarrassingly incorrect about every single topic he ever posts about.

 

I feel another annihilation coming.

[OldNick]

Those oranges from Brazil will be nice and fresh. I know they can be refrigerated I but no doubt the extra transportation will make a difference to price differential.

The mad rush to take no deal off the table is foolish. I saw in the paper today that the ira will be getting back some of their old operatives if there is a no deal and the violence will happen again. JC will be dusting off his passport to go and join his mates again. What the Irish have to understand is it is them who will be wanting the fences p not the Brits

[badgerx16]

Nuclear war fear over Y2K bug

19 December 1999

 

Read all about it, here...

 

 

 

Ahhhh yes, I remember it well. Loads of overtime, ( though I did have to work through New Year's Eve into New Year's Day ), and it got me out of jury service at Preston Crown Court.

 

Do you ever watch QI ? I think the General Ignorance round would be perfect for you.

[Plastic]

 

Oh my god - we paid 0.25% more than we received!? Outrageous! Sign me up for the Brexiteer bandwagon. All the misery and job losses are more than worth it if it means we can claw back our quarter of a percent!

 

Should we revisit any of the below predictions from 2016 yet?

 

In the coming years the UK will be also recognised as the country that jumped into a lifeboat, not went down with the ship. I give Deutsche Bank about another 6 months before it all goes t!ts up and wipes the smirk off Frau Merkels face and bankrupts the banks in Spain, Italy, Portugal and Greece, while our banks watch in amusement. The fear lot really got to you, didn't they? The only thing to fear is fear itself....

Edited 27 January, 2019 by Plastic

[Wes Tender]

Jeez you are one rude f*u*c*k*e*r. You seem unable to make a point without insulting people because they do not agree with your view. /

 

Reading from the last post upwards, I read this far from your post and thought that you had to be talking about Shurlock. Seems as though you are only prepared to condemn the insults if they come from the side that you oppose, eh?

[shurlock]

Reading from the last post upwards, I read this far from your post and thought that you had to be talking about Shurlock. Seems as though you are only prepared to condemn the insults if they come from the side that you oppose, eh?

 

It’s quite simple Les. Some threaten violence on here; some don’t. I know it’s lost on you because you readily condone it.

[Guided Missile]

Oh my god - we paid 0.25% more than we received!? Outrageous! Sign me up for the Brexiteer bandwagon. All the misery and job losses are more than worth it if it means we can claw back our quarter of a percent!

 

Should we revisit any of the below predictions from 2016 yet?

 

The thing with zombies is they sometimes look like they are alive. Deutsche Bank went t!ts up when I said it would, but with a bank too big to fail, the Germans are making sure it twitches occasionally. As far as Spain, Italy, Portugal and Greece, their economies have also gone t!ts up. Italy, the biggest of the lot, is bankrupt. It's just that the EU can't afford to admit it.

[shurlock]

The thing with zombies is they sometimes look like they are alive. Deutsche Bank went t!ts up when I said it would, but with a bank too big to fail, the Germans are making sure it twitches occasionally. As far as Spain, Italy, Portugal and Greece, their economies have also gone t!ts up. Italy, the biggest of the lot, is bankrupt. It's just that the EU can't afford to admit it.

 

Keep digging little fella

 

(FWIW Spain has enjoyed an economic revival over the past few years but don’t let facts get in your way).

[buctootim]

The thing with zombies is they sometimes look like they are alive. Deutsche Bank went t!ts up when I said it would, but with a bank too big to fail, the Germans are making sure it twitches occasionally. As far as Spain, Italy, Portugal and Greece, their economies have also gone t!ts up. Italy, the biggest of the lot, is bankrupt. It's just that the EU can't afford to admit it.

 

You must know quite a bit about zombie companies

[shurlock]

You must know quite a bit about zombie companies

 

[Verbal]

Interesting leaked report from the intelligence services, which does point to some upsides of any Brexit - an independent Scotland and a united Ireland.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6639399/Brexit-leave-UK-unstable-decades-violence-streets-EU-secret-report-warns.html

[Guided Missile]

Deutsche Bank to be bailed out today with QIF money, just like Barclays were and likely to be forced to merge with Commerzbank. Only way the Qatari's could save their investment. For those working for Deutsche Bank, I'd get out pdq. In addition to your bonuses being shot to f***, just wait until the money laundering comes out in the wash.

[Cabbage_Face]

Interesting leaked report from the intelligence services, which does point to some upsides of any Brexit - an independent Scotland and a united Ireland.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6639399/Brexit-leave-UK-unstable-decades-violence-streets-EU-secret-report-warns.html

 

Honestly, and sadly I can see their being bigger issues if we have a 2nd Ref and/or Remain. Brexit supporters probably has the most violent and awful minority.

[Wes Tender]

It’s quite simple Les. Some threaten violence on here; some don’t. I know it’s lost on you because you readily condone it.

 

It's quite simple, Shurlock; forecasting violence isn't the same as advocating it. I have pointed this out to you on several occasions, but for one who considers himself to be so intelligent, it is a mystery to me why such a simple concept doesn't seem to penetrate your cranium..

[Guided Missile]

10 year Free Trade Agreement with the EU from March 29th appears feasible under WTO rules (Article XXIV). It's been under consideration by the UK for some time. Interesting article below:

 

British trade officials are discreetly exploring a 10-year interim arrangement with the European Union in case a trade deal is not reached during Britain's exit negotiations. Officials from the U.K.'s Department for International Trade are investigating the possibility of keeping tariffs between Britain and the EU at zero as part of an interim arrangement that could last up to 10 years, allowing more time for a full trade deal to be negotiated after Britain has left the bloc, according to sources familiar with the discussions that have taken place at the World Trade Organization. Under a little-known WTO clause, the U.K. and Brussels would be allowed a “reasonable length of time” after Brexit to agree a free-trade deal before trade law would force both sides to impose the same tariffs on each other as they do on everybody else. Such a transitional deal would allay fears about an impending cliff edge in March 2019, when Britain is set to crash out of the single market and face the EU's steep external tariffs on goods ranging from meat to cars. The provision, set out in Article 24 of the WTO's General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, can only be challenged by other countries if the temporary continuation of existing tariffs is not applied to all trade. This makes a special deal for finance or the car industry less likely as part of any interim arrangement. According to Geneva-based officials, British trade experts are working on the understanding that a decade would constitute a “reasonable” timeframe to stay on special trading terms with the EU. They are supported by the WTO rules, which state that any interim agreement should "exceed 10 years only in exceptional cases."

 

Doesn't appear to help us on services, but might be a legal way to a FTA with the EU, outside a customs union.

[Guided Missile]

The Telegraph carry this story which lends weight to the Article XXIV approach, here.

 

Article 24 allows the UK. and EU to enter a ‘managed no deal’ arrangement where tariffs and quotas can be kept at zero whilst we negotiate a full blown free trade agreement along the lines of the ‘SuperCanada’ FTA as I have long advocated. If we have to go to no deal then I am very comfortable with the Article 24 lifeboat, as the man or woman on the street will notice no difference. So are leading trade experts I have consulted in the EU and at the WTO itself. It’s entirely doable.

[Verbal]

It's quite simple, Shurlock; forecasting violence isn't the same as advocating it. I have pointed this out to you on several occasions, but for one who considers himself to be so intelligent, it is a mystery to me why such a simple concept doesn't seem to penetrate your cranium..

 

The issue is why you predicted it. You offered no evidence - indeed, the evidence is that the people who've been doing the fighting on the streets for Brexit are a small bunch of far-right out-theres, some of them with convictions for violence and pedophilia.

 

So a fair reading of your 'prediction' is that it is motivated by a desire for violence should things not go your way. It is certainly consistent with your expressed racist views aimed first at Jews, then Arabs, then brown people in general.

[shurlock]

It's quite simple, Shurlock; forecasting violence isn't the same as advocating it. I have pointed this out to you on several occasions, but for one who considers himself to be so intelligent, it is a mystery to me why such a simple concept doesn't seem to penetrate your cranium..

 

In addition to Verbal’s comments, you’re happy to turn a blind eye to GM’s threats of violence against other posters in posts to you -all while getting wound up by a bit of namecalling. No wonder you have zero credibility or standing on the issue.

[shurlock]

Dear god, GM has discovered Article XXIV (and once again been led up the garden path by chancers and charlatans who actively despise him and his ilk)

 

#thickerthanabutchersturd

Edited 28 January, 2019 by shurlock

[Wes Tender]

Interesting leaked report from the intelligence services, which does point to some upsides of any Brexit - an independent Scotland and a united Ireland.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6639399/Brexit-leave-UK-unstable-decades-violence-streets-EU-secret-report-warns.html

 

It appears that you missed the letters "EU" from in front of "Intelligence Services." In the words of Mandy Rice-Davies, they would say that, wouldn't they? As Jacob Rees-Mogg responds, EU Intelligence Services is a bit of an oxymoron. Did they also make any predictions as to whether the violence in France might escalate to other EU member states, or whether any other member states might follow us out of the EU as dissatisfaction with the EU grows with each passing month? Any predictions regarding the potential for violence when the forthcoming EU elections will almost certainly produce substantial growth in the vote for more populist parties?

[Wes Tender]

The issue is why you predicted it. You offered no evidence - indeed, the evidence is that the people who've been doing the fighting on the streets for Brexit are a small bunch of far-right out-theres, some of them with convictions for violence and pedophilia.

 

So a fair reading of your 'prediction' is that it is motivated by a desire for violence should things not go your way. It is certainly consistent with your expressed racist views aimed first at Jews, then Arabs, then brown people in general.

 

What a load of unsubstantiated rubbish you spout. And then you go and shoot yourself in the foot by posting a link to predictions (without any evidence) by EU Intelligence Services forecasting that Brexit will result in violence in the UK. Presumably by your stilted logic, they are advocating and desirous of that violence.

[buctootim]

It appears that you missed the letters "EU" from in front of "Intelligence Services." In the words of Mandy Rice-Davies, they would say that, wouldn't they? As Jacob Rees-Mogg responds, EU Intelligence Services is a bit of an oxymoron. Did they also make any predictions as to whether the violence in France might escalate to other EU member states, or whether any other member states might follow us out of the EU as dissatisfaction with the EU grows with each passing month? Any predictions regarding the potential for violence when the forthcoming EU elections will almost certainly produce substantial growth in the vote for more populist parties?

 

Same old same old Wes. Nasty EU intelligence services lying about risk of civil unrest and fragmentation in the UK. Meanwhile ministers are rehearsing implementation of martial law in the event of, um, civil unrest.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6636785/Britain-impose-MARTIAL-LAW-avoid-chaos-streets-no-deal-Brexit.html

[Guided Missile]

The Geneva-based official who spoke to POLITICO on condition of anonymity said the idea for a 10-year deal that set tariffs at zero was gaining ground. “What’s important for you to take away is there is not a great swell of bitterness towards the British in Geneva,” the official said. “The attitude is nothing like what it it is Brussels. I don't think anyone wants to see trade disrupted between WTO members."

The official added that an interim agreement that allowed existing tariff-free trade to continue is likely to be accepted by the "vast majority" of WTO members. "Nothing precludes a member challenging anything, but you have to show some injury — that you are materially worse off — for it not to be spurious," he said. "It’s hard to see how that might be the case." Trade experts in London express a similar view.

"Zero-for-zero tariffs could be agreed to cover the interim," said Shanker Singham, chair of the Legatum Institute's Special Trade Commission on trade. "If we are not able to get a comprehensive free-trade agreement in two years, which everybody assumes we won’t, we will have at least got quite far down the track on what interim measures are necessary. It’s quite hard to see how no interim measures will be agreed." "Under WTO rules you can’t say you are going to have zero-for-zero until a deal is struck, but you can say for a limited amount of time," he continued. "WTO will allow it if both sides are negotiating a free trade deal.” He said there would be a lot of pressure around the world for the EU and the U.K. to settle terms —such as from the Japanese, for example, whose supply chains would be threatened by tariffs.

[shurlock]

Go back to your Salter chemistry set and stop making a fool of yourself.

[Verbal]

What a load of unsubstantiated rubbish you spout. And then you go and shoot yourself in the foot by posting a link to predictions (without any evidence) by EU Intelligence Services forecasting that Brexit will result in violence in the UK. Presumably by your stilted logic, they are advocating and desirous of that violence.

 

I hate to break it to you, but intelligence from the EU IC (which still includes MI5 by the way) and you, on a dusty corner of a football forum, are not equivalent. Your predictions are those of a Brexiteer cultist and self-declared racist, who would be ready for...what exactly?...should things not go your way. The intelligence community's predictions are drawn from the UK's own preparations for civil disturbances based on predictions for severe shortages.

 

You have dodged my main point in quoting that article. Would you join me in welcoming the progressive objectives of a united Ireland and an independent Scotland, which the EU predicts may well flow from Brexit?

[Tamesaint]

It's hard not to insult you when the WTO rules as they apply post Brexit are explained in the links I posted, but as you can't be bothered to read them, I'll explain. We can apply whatever tariffs we chose, up to the maximum allowed under WTO rules. Whatever level we chose, we have to impose the same tariff levels to MFN's (Most Favoured Nations), unless it is with a nation with which we have a trade agreement, where the tariffs are determined in that agreement.

Countries usually impose tariffs when they seek to protect their domestic producers.

In the case of oranges, there is no reason to impose the EU level of tariffs on imported oranges, for instance, which means that we charge zero tariffs on Spanish oranges, as we do at the moment, but we then have to charge zero to MFN's which are likely to have more efficient orange producers, thus our costs go down.

So, we are leaving an area that is laughingly called a free trade area, when it should be called a protectionist trade area, which uses both tariffs and regulatory barriers to protect, for instance, inefficient French farmers.

The cheaper food we will enjoy will benefit the low income families more than the middle class liberals like you. It is just, like you, most are not clever enough to see through the EU and believe all they read in the Guardian.

Now, back on ignore for being lazy and thick....

 

In your assessment of cheaper food you seem to have forgotten about FX rates and the effect that a weak pound is having on import prices.

 

Immediately after the Brexit vote GBP fell against both the US dollar and the Euro.

 

Pound dollar average rate May 2016 ( the last month before the referendum) 1.45

 

Pound dollar rate average July 2016 1.314

 

Pound euro rate average May 2016 1.284

Pound euro rate average July 2016 1.188

 

Ie Imported products like food became more expensive.

 

GBP has never recovered from this Brexit battering. Looking at average rates from 2 years before the referendum and the 2 subsequent years

 

Pound dollar rate average

 

2014 1.648

2015 1.529

2016 1.350

2017 1.289

2018 1.333

 

Pound euro average

 

2014 1.240

2015 1.377

2016 1.225

2017 1.141

2018 1.130

 

In other words as oil is priced in dollars we are all paying at least 3p a litre more for our petrol than we would if the pound was at the same level against the dollar as it had been on Brexit night. If we could still enjoy 2014 FX rates the difference would be over 7 pence a litre. The Brexit vote has cost us all over the last 2 and a half years.

 

The last couple of weeks has seen GBP rise a little (about 3%) as a soft Brexit is looking more likely. If we ended up leaving the EU on WTO rules as you suggest (aka hard Brexit) GBP would plummet with parity against both the Euro and the dollar being likely. Any benefit for food prices from a reduction in tariffs would be dwarfed by the extra costs from an even weaker pound.... even Spanish oranges

[Wes Tender]

I hate to break it to you, but intelligence from the EU IC (which still includes MI5 by the way) and you, on a dusty corner of a football forum, are not equivalent. Your predictions are those of a Brexiteer cultist and self-declared racist, who would be ready for...what exactly?...should things not go your way. The intelligence community's predictions are drawn from the UK's own preparations for civil disturbances based on predictions for severe shortages.

 

You have dodged my main point in quoting that article. Would you join me in welcoming the progressive objectives of a united Ireland and an independent Scotland, which the EU predicts may well flow from Brexit?

 

No. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I won't join you in welcoming a United Ireland or an independent Scotland. That is up to their citizens to decide in a referendum vote, provided that there becomes an overwhelming desire from their populations to hold one. Mind you, judging by the actions by the establishment elites to thwart the decision of our UK electorate in the EU Referendum, it isn't clear whether Ireland and Scotland would actually be permitted to leave the UK even if they voted to. Ireland has already proven that voting in any way contrary to the EU's wishes means that they have to vote again until they make the right decision. Maybe we'll learn from the EU and ask them to vote again too. After all, the Remoaners want a second losers' referendum here before we have even left. The Scots have already voted to remain in the UK and it is extreme irony that they wish to leave this Union with us, but stay in the European Union. Talking about a united Ireland though, a greater degree of unity could be achieved if Ireland decided to join us in leaving the EU, thus at a stroke ending all the fuss about the border.

 

Nothing dusty about this corner, but for all their bias in the EU intelligence services expressing their pro-EU propaganda, there is a reasonable basis for arguing that the likelihood of NI or Scotland leaving the UK is matched by other EU member states leaving the EU.

 

The intelligence community's predictions are drawn from the UK's own preparations for civil disturbances based on predictions for severe shortages.

 

Where does the article claim that civil disturbances would arise based on predictions of severe shortages? Misreading again? The only shortage which could cause civil disturbances, is the shortage of democracy.

[Wes Tender]

Same old same old Wes. Nasty EU intelligence services lying about risk of civil unrest and fragmentation in the UK. Meanwhile ministers are rehearsing implementation of martial law in the event of, um, civil unrest.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6636785/Britain-impose-MARTIAL-LAW-avoid-chaos-streets-no-deal-Brexit.html

 

You surely can't be that naive? It isn't just the EU that love Project Fear and attempt to scare us into remaining in their failing club. Our own remoaner establishment love a bit of it too.

[OldNick]

Interesting leaked report from the intelligence services, which does point to some upsides of any Brexit - an independent Scotland and a united Ireland.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6639399/Brexit-leave-UK-unstable-decades-violence-streets-EU-secret-report-warns.html

I think you will find that our own intelligence services do not rate many of the EU intel services. A colander was a comment made to me. We are very careful who we give intel to as so many have different agendas than our own.

[buctootim]

We are very careful who we give intel to as so many have different agendas than our own.

like Trump

[saint1977]

Report in the Independent about a Brexiteer walking behind Muslim girls in Tower Hamlets and recorded muttering revolting comments about stopping them from having children and breeding like rats.

 

Racist incidents up 40% in the last year. Members of my family from mainland Europe have received racist abuse picking up the kids from school in the midlands. Now they have moved to mainland Europe wholesale with their engineering skills. Can’t blame them, England turning into a cesspit.

 

People criticised Blair for having a target of getting 50% of young people to Higher Education or at least to equivalent vocational training like NVQ level 5 and upwards, I was one of them. I was wrong. The areas where there are higher proportions of graduates and highly skilled professionals/trades will be better placed whatever the final outcome in Westminster. Meanwhile areas left behind who chose to stick two fingers up are going to get the worst of it if is no-deal. Poor education and lack of skilled trades capacity in those areas will large economies totally ill-equipped to benefit from any opportunities that do arrive for new trade deals.

 

Areas like Barnsley thought it couldn’t get any worse - congratulations, you voted for Thatcherism on grotesque steroids.

 

Oh, and the Tories are looking to cut funding for post 18 education. You couldn’t make it up, as a certain Murdoch columnist used to say.

[Batman]

Report in the Independent about a Brexiteer walking behind Muslim girls in Tower Hamlets and recorded muttering revolting comments about stopping them from having children and breeding like rats.

 

Racist incidents up 40% in the last year. Members of my family from mainland Europe have received racist abuse picking up the kids from school in the midlands. Now they have moved to mainland Europe wholesale with their engineering skills. Can’t blame them, England turning into a cesspit.

 

People criticised Blair for having a target of getting 50% of young people to Higher Education or at least to equivalent vocational training like NVQ level 5 and upwards, I was one of them. I was wrong. The areas where there are higher proportions of graduates and highly skilled professionals/trades will be better placed whatever the final outcome in Westminster. Meanwhile areas left behind who chose to stick two fingers up are going to get the worst of it if is no-deal. Poor education and lack of skilled trades capacity in those areas will large economies totally ill-equipped to benefit from any opportunities that do arrive for new trade deals.

 

Areas like Barnsley thought it couldn’t get any worse - congratulations, you voted for Thatcherism on grotesque steroids.

 

Oh, and the Tories are looking to cut funding for post 18 education. You couldn’t make it up, as a certain Murdoch columnist used to say.

 

[John B]

I loved this part of the article:

 

I stopped reading after this cr@p...

 

Brexiters don't seem to be worried about food shortages as they swallow any old ****.

[moonraker]

 

What can you possiblly find funny. The rise in racism is real and should be deplored by any right thinking person.

[Wes Tender]

Brexiters don't seem to be worried about food shortages as they swallow any old ****.

 

Nope. Not in the least bit worried about food shortages. And I certainly don't swallow any of that project fear sh*te about the possibility of it.

[shurlock]

Nope. Not in the least bit worried about food shortages. And I certainly don't swallow any of that project fear sh*te about the possibility of it.

 

What do you think of Article 24 big man?

[doddisalegend]

Voters have been sent Ukip branded leaflets that label supporters of Theresa May’s Brexit deal as ‘national traitors’. The flyers, sent to homes in Chichester, describe people supportive of the Prime Minister’s agreement as a “state enemy” and tell voters “we’re watching you”.

 

 

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/were-watching-you-ukip-issues-leaflet-threatening-national-traitors-who-support-theresa-mays-brexit-deal/

 

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Guided Missile]

Sorry, I was wrong. Imperial College, London has today claimed that Brexit will cause 12,400 people to die from heart attacks and strokes. That and the shortage of Mars bars has finally persuaded me that leaving the EU is a bad move.

[Guided Missile]

Should we revisit any of the below predictions from 2016 yet?

 

Originally Posted by Guided Missile

In the coming years the UK will be also recognised as the country that jumped into a lifeboat, not went down with the ship. I give Deutsche Bank about another 6 months before it all goes t!ts up and wipes the smirk off Frau Merkels face and bankrupts the banks in Spain, Italy, Portugal and Greece, while our banks watch in amusement. The fear lot really got to you, didn't they? The only thing to fear is fear itself....

 

"Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not."

 

So, Deutsche Bank is about to disappear into a "suicidal" merger with Commerzbank and the biggest failure of the lot, Italy, is in the news today.

 

Lorenzo Codogno, the former chief economist of the Italian treasury and now at LC Macro Advisors, said the (Italian) economy is “entering a self-defeating loop of negative growth”, with rising deficits and debt ratios. He warned that the economy is likely to contract by a further 0.2pc this year, with perilous effects on the country’s knife-edged debt dynamics. He said: “I always thought that Italy was one recession away from a full-fledged crisis, as it did not adequately address fiscal and structural issues in the past. Here we are now, with a crisis that looks almost unavoidable."Mr Codogno said the banks are under huge pressure. The downturn is tightening the noose on their non-performing loans, and now the ECB has told them that they must provision fully for all of these bad debts. “There isn’t enough capital in the Italian banking system to cover this so the ECB is basically saying that the whole sector is bankrupt,” he said.

 

I must admit that the sight of a former chief economist of the Italian treasury taking no responsibility for the mess the Italian banking system is now in is fairly typical of his ilk, but hey, we all know that economic forecasting is all about driving a car at 70 mph with your eyes glued to the rear view mirror, telling your passengers not to worry..

[Wes Tender]

What do you think of Article 24 big man?

 

https://uktradeforum.net/2019/01/26/why-claims-about-a-wto-article-24-interim-agreement-are-a-red-herring/

 

At this stage of the drawn out fudge by May, the best solution currently is to leave the EU on WTO terms. May's deal is appalling and even if it got through the house in anything like its current form, there is no guarantee of us getting a decent FTA with the EU at the end of the withdrawal period. The only sure way to get a decent FTA with the EU in the shortest time, is to walk away from negotiations now and let them come back to us when they are ready to talk sensibly about what is in our mutual best interests.