Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Batman]

Jeff, do you remember when we were told of 700,000 immediate job losses, housing market crash etc for just voting to leave?

[Wes Tender]

The link above from Jeff is Project Fear writ large by the pro-EU Financial Times with their Department of Guesswork economic projections based on their crystal ball gazing. The IMF crystal ball gazing projections linked below and summarised by Guido are altogether more positive about our future prosperity, albeit they assume some sort of trade deal with the EU.

 

https://order-order.com/2019/01/21/imf-uk-will-fastest-growing-european-g7-country-brexit/

 

What I don't see in any of these economic forecasts is a scenario whereby we leave with no deal under WTO terms and invest the £39 billion that we would not need to pay the EU into mitigating any short term economic shortfall, reducing tariff barriers substantially, whilst simultaneously reducing tax levels (Income Tax, VAT and Corporation Tax), opening free ports around the country, those sorts of measures.

 

Can the economic experts on the forum point me in the direction of any economic forecasts that have factored in these and other possibilities, and what their conclusions on our GDP would then be?

[Cabbage_Face]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46958560

 

Wasn't voting leave going to ruin this country?

[benjii]

The only relevant fact here is you are particularly odd.

 

There's rarely any singular, cold/hard facts in a rolling discourse like this. There is plenty more water under the bridge since June 2016 and the situation has developed significantly since then and all parties have learned a lot about what will happen next. In most cases, it is nothing like the scenarios that were presented before the vote. If you don't have any sense of that, at all, then well done.

 

If you want the entire thing distilled into "cold hard facts" you might need to wait until they publish a Horrible Histories book about it, maybe in around 2028.

 

So, for now, none of us can give you capital letter FACTS so congratulations you win the internet.

 

[moonraker]

Jeff, do you remember when we were told of 700,000 immediate job losses, housing market crash etc for just voting to leave?

 

Do you remember when we were told: a trade deal with the EU would be the easiest in history, that the NHS would get £350m a week, that Liam Fox would have 42 trade deals signed of by the time we leave, if the result is close its not over, ...........

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Jeff, do you remember when we were told of 700,000 immediate job losses, housing market crash etc for just voting to leave?

 

Nope - who said that?

[Batman]

Do you remember when we were told: a trade deal with the EU would be the easiest in history, that the NHS would get £350m a week, that Liam Fox would have 42 trade deals signed of by the time we leave, if the result is close its not over, ...........

 

yes. they all lied and they continue to lie. no one can predict the next week let alone post Brexit

[Guided Missile]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46958560

 

Wasn't voting leave going to ruin this country?

 

The famous B&Q speech prior to the referendum:

 

Britain’s economy would be tipped into a year-long recession, with at least 500,000 jobs lost and GDP around 3.6% lower, following a vote to leave the EU, new Treasury analysis launched today by the Prime Minister and Chancellor shows. Speaking at B&Q in Eastleigh, Hampshire, the Prime Minister and Chancellor set out the Treasury’s analysis of the impact on the nation’s economy over the immediate period of two years following a vote to leave.

[RedArmy]

The only relevant fact here is you are particularly odd.

 

There's rarely any singular, cold/hard facts in a rolling discourse like this. There is plenty more water under the bridge since June 2016 and the situation has developed significantly since then and all parties have learned a lot about what will happen next. In most cases, it is nothing like the scenarios that were presented before the vote. If you don't have any sense of that, at all, then well done.

 

If you want the entire thing distilled into "cold hard facts" you might need to wait until they publish a Horrible Histories book about it, maybe in around 2028.

 

So, for now, none of us can give you capital letter FACTS so congratulations you win the internet.

 

Is that the new phrase we will be hearing from now on? "We must have a people's vote because there's more water under the bridge"

 

Fantastic

[aintforever]

Is that the new phrase we will be hearing from now on? "We must have a people's vote because there's more water under the bridge"

 

Fantastic

 

I agree that much of this project fear is grossly exaggerated but we still obviously have a much better idea now than back in 2016, it makes sense for us to make a more informed decision. We didn't know about the £39billion divorce settlement or have much of an idea of the EU's stance on a trade deal.

 

The Northern Ireland issue was barely mentioned last time and as it has turned into quite a major problem, that alone is a decent reason for a new vote IMO. No-one wants the paddys blowing each other up again. The peace process is more important than any of this Brexit stuff.

[Verbal]

With apologies to Tender for the writer's surname, Nick Cohen nails the 'snobs and mobs' who, 'if they are not actually calling for violence' in the event of a second referendum,' 'they are expecting it, justifying it, hoping for it, and wanting it.'

 

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/01/snobs-and-mobs-agree-on-the-cost-of-a-second-referendum/

[Batman]

Angela Merkel has hailed a new Franco-German friendship treaty as being a step towards the creation of a future joint European army.

 

The German Chancellor said the pact, inked in the ancient western German city of Aachen today, aims to build a 'common military culture' between the two countries.

 

In a speech during the ceremony, Merkel insisted the treaty 'contributes to the creation of a European army'

[Unbelievable Jeff]

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jan/22/dyson-to-move-company-hq-to-singapore

 

Someone wants tariff free access to the EU post Brexit. What a ****ing scumbag - last Dyson I buy.

[CB Fry]

Is that the new phrase we will be hearing from now on? "We must have a people's vote because there's more water under the bridge"

 

Fantastic [emoji38]

You're an odd one, that's for sure. For someone desperate for FACTS you seem quite keen to just make sh it up.

[Cabbage_Face]

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jan/22/dyson-to-move-company-hq-to-singapore

 

Someone wants tariff free access to the EU post Brexit. What a ****ing scumbag - last Dyson I buy.

 

That sucks

 

 

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[shurlock]

That sucks

 

 

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A real moral vacuum, right pal.

[Plastic]

A real moral vacuum, right pal.

 

Immoral vacuum.

I also won’t buy another, mainly because the one I have has been pretty shïte.

[buctootim]

Immoral vacuum.

I also won’t buy another, mainly because the one I have has been pretty shïte.

 

Triumph of marketing over reality. Bit like Brexit

[moonraker]

Any quitters defending the rich quitter!!

[Tamesaint]

Any quitters defending the rich quitter!!

 

I very much doubt it but Dyson's actions are typical of the Brexit elite. Lawson decided that although Brexit was good enough for everyone else , it wasn't for him so he applied for French residency. Rees Mogg thinks that the UK will benefit from Brexit ... but not his investment house which is setting up in Dublin. Dyson is just another hypocrite Brexiteer.

[badgerx16]

Yes. they all lied and they continue to lie...........

Sums the whole thing up perfectly.

[Wes Tender]

. Rees Mogg thinks that the UK will benefit from Brexit ... but not his investment house which is setting up in Dublin.

 

Do get your facts right. J R-M is not setting up in Dublin. The ignorant prat Corbyn tried that accusation in Parliament and was left red-faced by J R-M's repudiation, accusing him of terminal inexactitude (lying). I'm sure that you will want to Google it to enlighten yourself so that you don't make the same mistake again. This is par for the course, throwing mud at those who you see as threats to an agenda. The similar accusations made about Dyson can equally be made about Branson.

 

As for your ridiculous assertion that Lawson is a hypocrite for wanting to live in France despite being a Brexiteer, that really is very weak and risible. It would be on a par with someone suggesting that if you love the EU so much, why don't you go and live there? Do you honestly believe that anybody who voted for Brexit cannot live in any of 27 European countries without being called a hypocrite? Should anybody not go to live in countries where they despise the political leader there? Where do you draw the line in this stupidity?

[shurlock]

Do get your facts right. J R-M is not setting up in Dublin. The ignorant prat Corbyn tried that accusation in Parliament and was left red-faced by J R-M's repudiation, accusing him of terminal inexactitude (lying). I'm sure that you will want to Google it to enlighten yourself so that you don't make the same mistake again. This is par for the course, throwing mud at those who you see as threats to an agenda. The similar accusations made about Dyson can equally be made about Branson.

 

As for your ridiculous assertion that Lawson is a hypocrite for wanting to live in France despite being a Brexiteer, that really is very weak and risible. It would be on a par with someone suggesting that if you love the EU so much, why don't you go and live there? Do you honestly believe that anybody who voted for Brexit cannot live in any of 27 European countries without being called a hypocrite? Should anybody not go to live in countries where they despise the political leader there? Where do you draw the line in this stupidity?

 

Pretty minor compared to JRM’s claim on live TV that Corbyn voted against the Good Friday Agreement.

[doddisalegend]

Do get your facts right. J R-M is not setting up in Dublin. The ignorant prat Corbyn tried that accusation in Parliament and was left red-faced by J R-M's repudiation, accusing him of terminal inexactitude (lying). I'm sure that you will want to Google it to enlighten yourself so that you don't make the same mistake again. This is par for the course, throwing mud at those who you see as threats to an agenda. The similar accusations made about Dyson can equally be made about Branson.

 

As for your ridiculous assertion that Lawson is a hypocrite for wanting to live in France despite being a Brexiteer, that really is very weak and risible. It would be on a par with someone suggesting that if you love the EU so much, why don't you go and live there? Do you honestly believe that anybody who voted for Brexit cannot live in any of 27 European countries without being called a hypocrite? Should anybody not go to live in countries where they despise the political leader there? Where do you draw the line in this stupidity?

Never had you down as supporter of the idea that Europeans from one country should have the right to go and live in a different European country if they prefer it to their own....

 

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[Unbelievable Jeff]

Just a quick question for the Brexiteers.

 

Would you still be happy to leave the EU, if it led to the GFA no longer being valid, and a return to sectarian violence both in Ireland and in the UK?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Do get your facts right. J R-M is not setting up in Dublin. The ignorant prat Corbyn tried that accusation in Parliament and was left red-faced by J R-M's repudiation, accusing him of terminal inexactitude (lying). I'm sure that you will want to Google it to enlighten yourself so that you don't make the same mistake again. This is par for the course, throwing mud at those who you see as threats to an agenda. The similar accusations made about Dyson can equally be made about Branson.

 

As for your ridiculous assertion that Lawson is a hypocrite for wanting to live in France despite being a Brexiteer, that really is very weak and risible. It would be on a par with someone suggesting that if you love the EU so much, why don't you go and live there? Do you honestly believe that anybody who voted for Brexit cannot live in any of 27 European countries without being called a hypocrite? Should anybody not go to live in countries where they despise the political leader there? Where do you draw the line in this stupidity?

 

You seem to be getting more and more shrill, the more that businesses leave the UK, and prominent Brexiteers take their businesses overseas. Is it because you're finally coming to the realisation that you've had the wool pulled over your eyes?

[Guided Missile]

Would you still be happy to leave the EU, if it led to the GFA no longer being valid, and a return to sectarian violence both in Ireland and in the UK?

Being a member of the EU and the GFA being "valid" is no guarantee that there won't be sectarian violence in Ireland, Northern Ireland or mainland Britain, you moron.

[doddisalegend]

Just a quick question for the Brexiteers.

 

Would you still be happy to leave the EU, if it led to the GFA no longer being valid, and a return to sectarian violence both in Ireland and in the UK?

 

A lot of the Brexiteers I know would be happy to bin off Scotland so I would assume they would probably happily bin off Northern Ireland back to the Republic. They would all identify as English rather than British though a Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish Brexiteer might have a different outlook.

 

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[Unbelievable Jeff]

Being a member of the EU and the GFA being "valid" is no guarantee that there won't be sectarian violence in Ireland, Northern Ireland or mainland Britain, you moron.

 

No need to get offensive is there? Also, that's not what I asked, was it? Answer the question.

Edited 23 January, 2019 by Unbelievable Jeff

[Lord Duckhunter]

Never had you down as supporter of the idea that Europeans from one country should have the right to go and live in a different European country if they prefer it to their own....

 

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Do you think Africans should have “the right” to come and live in the uk, if they prefer it to their own country?

 

 

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[badgerx16]

No need to get offensive is there? Also, that's not what I asked, was it? Answer the question.

Seeing as earlier in the thread he self identified as a 'moron', don't take it as an insult.

[doddisalegend]

Do you think Africans should have “the right” to come and live in the uk, if they prefer it to their own country?

 

 

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Do you think Brits have the right to go live in Africa if they prefer it to the UK? Are you specifically talking about black Africans for some reason I imagine you wouldn't be bothered by a nice white Afrikaner from Rhodesia moving in down the road from you...

 

Though last time I checked Africa isn't part of the EU so I'm not really sure how that is relevant to a European moving to live in another European country like our Brexit loving chum Lawson.

 

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[Wes Tender]

Never had you down as supporter of the idea that Europeans from one country should have the right to go and live in a different European country if they prefer it to their own....

 

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That just goes to show how little you know about me. As I have an Italian mother who has lived in the UK for over 70 years and other family members from outside of the UK too, I am hardly likely to be against the right of people from other countries, European or elsewhere coming to live and work here, am I? If you had bothered to delve a little deeper into the opinions on immigration of others who wish to leave the EU, instead of reinforcing your Remoaner prejudices, you would find that the majority are not against immigration, but are against uncontrolled immigration. I'm sure that you are bright enough to realise the difference between those two positions.

[Wes Tender]

Do you think Brits have the right to go live in Africa if they prefer it to the UK? Are you specifically talking about black Africans for some reason I imagine you wouldn't be bothered by a nice white Afrikaner from Rhodesia moving in down the road from you...

 

Though last time I checked Africa isn't part of the EU so I'm not really sure how that is relevant to a European moving to live in another European country like our Brexit loving chum Lawson.

 

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Rhodesia? Bit behind the times aren't you?

[Wes Tender]

You seem to be getting more and more shrill, the more that businesses leave the UK, and prominent Brexiteers take their businesses overseas. Is it because you're finally coming to the realisation that you've had the wool pulled over your eyes?

 

I'm not shrill at all, but thanks for your touching concern anyway. I'm perfectly sanguine about the whole situation, as I've said before. The default position is that if there is no deal arranged between us and the EU by 11pm on 29th March, we leave with the cleanest of clean Brexits on WTO terms. I'm completely happy with that. I would suggest that it is the Remoaners who are becoming increasingly more shrill the closer that date becomes. In sheer desperation, they are doing anything they can to renege on manifesto promises, plot to usurp Parliamentary procedure and precedent established over centuries, ignore the democratic referendum decision that they agreed to abide by, and attempt to extend the Article 50 leaving date that the vast majority of them voted for. As for the situation outside of the House, the pro-EU establishment is wetting itself and working itself up into a frenzy and project fear is in overdrive.

 

Comfort yourself with the few crumbs that they throw around, but for every article attempting to propagate doom and gloom, there is another with some optimism and positivity.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/01/22/pay-growth-hits-10-year-high-record-number-work-jobs-market/

[benjii]

Are Gtech AirRams any good?

[doddisalegend]

Rhodesia? Bit behind the times aren't you?

No I figured Lord D would have Cecil Rhodes down as one of his great Anglo Saxon heroes..and would prefer it to Zimbabwe.

 

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[Unbelievable Jeff]

https://www-mcvuk-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.mcvuk.com/.amp/business/sony-relocates-uk-electronics-hq-to-the-netherlands-in-preparation-of-a-no-deal-brexit?amp_js_v=0.1&usqp=mq331AQECAEoAQ%3D%3D

[Lord Duckhunter]

Do you think Brits have the right to go live in Africa if they prefer it to the UK? Are you specifically talking about black Africans for some reason I imagine you wouldn't be bothered by a nice white Afrikaner from Rhodesia moving in down the road from you...

 

Though last time I checked Africa isn't part of the EU so I'm not really sure how that is relevant to a European moving to live in another European country like our Brexit loving chum Lawson.

 

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What on Earth are you on about.

 

I believe nobody should have “the right” to live in any other country.

 

Some people think everyone should have “the right” to do so.

 

Some think nobody should have “the right” to do so.

 

Some people think people, from 27 mainly white Christian countries, should have “the right” but nobody else should.

 

I’ll leave you to decide which policy discriminates on the basis of where you come from.

 

 

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[doddisalegend]

What on Earth are you on about.

 

I believe nobody should have “the right” to live in any other country.

 

Some people think everyone should have “the right” to do so.

 

Some think nobody should have “the right” to do so.

 

Some people think people, from 27 mainly white Christian countries, should have “the right” but nobody else should.

 

I’ll leave you to decide which policy discriminates on the basis of where you come from.

 

 

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All very interesting still don't know what any of that has to do with a prominent leave campaigner deciding he'd rather live in a country that will continue to follow the laws of the EU he doesn' think his own country should be part off? whether you like the term "right" or not he has the "right" to live in France as an EU citizen something he seems happy to do.

 

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[shurlock]

What a freak

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/ask-the-queen-to-suspend-parliament-rees-mogg-urges-may-l5fzgbkcf

[Tamesaint]

All very interesting still don't know what any of that has to do with a prominent leave campaigner deciding he'd rather live in a country that will continue to follow the laws of the EU he doesn' think his own country should be part off? whether you like the term "right" or not he has the "right" to live in France as an EU citizen something he seems happy to do.

 

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Brexiteers are a strange bunch.

 

Apparently it is "ridiculous" to criticise Lawson for wanting to live in a country which follows EU rules and regulations when he doesn't want those rules and regulations for his own country. I would have thought it is an example of gross hypocrisy on his part.

 

Similarly it is apparently all right for the firm in which Rees Mogg is a senior partner and of which he owns over 15% to open new funds in Dublin and to describe Brexit as being a risk to a new fund and causing " considerable uncertainty ." Its funny how he never normally mentions Brexit having downsides.

 

Mind you perhaps Brexiteers are not that odd - nobody seems able to defend hypocrite Dyson.

[Wes Tender]

Brexiteers are a strange bunch.

 

Apparently it is "ridiculous" to criticise Lawson for wanting to live in a country which follows EU rules and regulations when he doesn't want those rules and regulations for his own country. I would have thought it is an example of gross hypocrisy on his part.

 

Similarly it is apparently all right for the firm in which Rees Mogg is a senior partner and of which he owns over 15% to open new funds in Dublin and to describe Brexit as being a risk to a new fund and causing " considerable uncertainty ." Its funny how he never normally mentions Brexit having downsides.

 

Mind you perhaps Brexiteers are not that odd - nobody seems able to defend hypocrite Dyson. ������

 

You and doddisalegend are the odd ones suggesting that just because somebody wishes to leave the EU, they shouldn't want to live in any EU member state lest they be labelled a hypocrite. It really does verge on being a bizarre opinion, especially as the EU rules and regulations that they would face in France, are exactly the same as we face in the UK currently. How much a part of somebody's life do those rules and regulations play, compared to the other facets which might influence Lawson's decision, such as climate, price of property, food and drink and a myriad of other things that he might include if he were to describe himself as a Francophile? Is he not allowed to love France, but dislike the EU? Does anybody who dislikes the EU have to dislike all member states? As I said earlier, your position is as stupid as somebody suggesting that if you love the EU so much, you ought to go and live there.

 

Regarding Rees-Mogg, I note that you have educated yourself more than the likes of Corbyn and the left wing press and not falsely accused him of opening an office in Dublin. But you seem to be remarkably naive about investment funds, that there is speculative risk involved, that the value of investments can go down as well as up. His company has funds in many areas of the World. Has he ever denied that Brexit is causing considerable uncertainty? It is actually possible to make money from speculation during periods of uncertainty you know. Soros is an expert in doing that.

 

As for Dyson, I'm sure that you lefties on here lap up every little smear as if it is the gospel truth without question. Here is a different angle:-

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/01/23/sir-james-dyson-not-actions-hypocrite-determined-invest-post/

 

And when it comes to hypocrisy, is it one rule for Dyson and another for Branson?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

You and doddisalegend are the odd ones suggesting that just because somebody wishes to leave the EU, they shouldn't want to live in any EU member state lest they be labelled a hypocrite. It really does verge on being a bizarre opinion, especially as the EU rules and regulations that they would face in France, are exactly the same as we face in the UK currently. How much a part of somebody's life do those rules and regulations play, compared to the other facets which might influence Lawson's decision, such as climate, price of property, food and drink and a myriad of other things that he might include if he were to describe himself as a Francophile? Is he not allowed to love France, but dislike the EU? Does anybody who dislikes the EU have to dislike all member states? As I said earlier, your position is as stupid as somebody suggesting that if you love the EU so much, you ought to go and live there.

 

Regarding Rees-Mogg, I note that you have educated yourself more than the likes of Corbyn and the left wing press and not falsely accused him of opening an office in Dublin. But you seem to be remarkably naive about investment funds, that there is speculative risk involved, that the value of investments can go down as well as up. His company has funds in many areas of the World. Has he ever denied that Brexit is causing considerable uncertainty? It is actually possible to make money from speculation during periods of uncertainty you know. Soros is an expert in doing that.

 

As for Dyson, I'm sure that you lefties on here lap up every little smear as if it is the gospel truth without question. Here is a different angle:-

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/01/23/sir-james-dyson-not-actions-hypocrite-determined-invest-post/

 

And when it comes to hypocrisy, is it one rule for Dyson and another for Branson?

 

No, Branson is a ***** as well.

 

Just out of interest, what makes people who criticise Dyson lefties? Good article though - more lies to placate the Brexiteers as they've had the wool pulled over their eyes.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

More good Brexit news...

 

https://www.ft.com/content/5c60b8ba-1f7a-11e9-b126-46fc3ad87c65

[Wes Tender]

No, Branson is a ***** as well.

 

Just out of interest, what makes people who criticise Dyson lefties? Good article though - more lies to placate the Brexiteers as they've had the wool pulled over their eyes.

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8265999/james-dyson-brexit-trade-ross-clark-opinion/

 

I would have thought that it was obvious. Left wing media is critical of him, whereas right wing media is supportive. Simple really.

 

No doubt you will be happy to point out where the lies were in either article and the reasons for making your stupid assertion that Brexiteers have had the wool pulled over their eyes.

[Wes Tender]

More good Brexit news...

 

https://www.ft.com/content/5c60b8ba-1f7a-11e9-b126-46fc3ad87c65

 

A bit pointless in linking to an article that nobody can read unless they have subscribed to the FT

[Unbelievable Jeff]

A bit pointless in linking to an article that nobody can read unless they have subscribed to the FT

 

Ah, you don't subscribe to the FT. I couldn't have guessed.

 

But here you go:

 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/airbus-boss-threatens-pull-company-15724248

[Unbelievable Jeff]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8265999/james-dyson-brexit-trade-ross-clark-opinion/

 

I would have thought that it was obvious. Left wing media is critical of him, whereas right wing media is supportive. Simple really.

 

No doubt you will be happy to point out where the lies were in either article and the reasons for making your stupid assertion that Brexiteers have had the wool pulled over their eyes.

 

You said "you lefties", you weren't referring to the media.

 

So let's try again, what makes people who criticise Dyson a leftie?

 

Also - are you seriously linking "The Sun"? That's like discussing paedophiles and putting a clip from Brasseye in to prove your point.

Edited 24 January, 2019 by Unbelievable Jeff

[Guided Missile]

Meanwhile, in Italy, this article describes their view of the EU:

 

Italy is gripped by a "sense of despair" over the failure of European institutions and the single currency to address the global challenges of migration and protectionism, according to prime minister Giuseppe Conte. He said Italians have been "very patient and disciplined" for many years and put their faith in national, European and technical institutions. "For years they embraced the key economic beliefs of the liberal democratic order," Mr Conte said. "Integration into the global market, free movement of people and capital, fiscal frugality, unchecked adoption of new technologies, untamed global finance. "They believed the euro could solve all their chronic problems; high inflation, weak currency, public debt. They enthusiastically adopted the new currency. The reality turned out to be very different instead." Sustained fiscal austerity has held back economic growth, according to Mr Conte, and was partly to blame for economic growth in the third quarter of 2018 still being "5pc below the peak in the first quarter of 2008".