Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Wes Tender]

Nothing I wrote referred to negatives in the EU but has everything to do with the self inflicted uncertainty of the Brexit vote. As usual you completely ignore any of the points I made, how do you view the worsening economic situation that has its root in the Brexit vote, a simple good or bad will suffice? Exactly what control have we got back, we are still in the EU and the total chaos surrounding how we will leave is anything but being in control, what is it like with your head in the sand?

 

Things aren't so black and white in the current situation that they can be classified as good or bad. That depends on individuals and business circumstances. Exporters will view the weak pound as good, as will the UK tourist industry, which is anticipating record numbers of visitors. The cut in the base rate will mean that those with mortgages will benefit from lower repayments. And as I said, it is also very encouraging that there are a number of countries keen to do trade deals with us post Brexit. I've been around long enough to realise that changes to the political climate take rather more than a few weeks for their real impact to be felt. I suggest that you calm yourself and wait until we have properly exited the EU and by the end of the two years following our pressing of the article 50 button, that will be the time to make a more reasoned judgement of our future prospects.

[Wes Tender]

Independen economist's backed up by similar analysis in the Treasury and elsewhere, is that Brexit would not just cause a short term economic downturn: cutting wages and increasing unemployment for just a year or two. By making it harder to trade with our immediate neighbours it will reduce UK trade overall, and the evidence suggests that this will permanently reduce people’s living standards yes very optimistic

 

You, the economists and the Treasury are assuming an awful lot about our future trade with the EU and also the rest of the World. I thought that it was concluded that wage levels would rise as a result of Brexit? You can continue to wallow in the doom and gloom scenario that the so-called experts predict, but please excuse me if I prefer to look at the future with a bit more optimism.

[buctootim]

You, the economists and the Treasury are assuming an awful lot about our future trade with the EU and also the rest of the World. I thought that it was concluded that wage levels would rise as a result of Brexit? You can continue to wallow in the doom and gloom scenario that the so-called experts predict, but please excuse me if I prefer to look at the future with a bit more optimism.

 

Thats the spirit Wes. Analysis, experience, statistics, measures, comparisons, models and evaporation of business / consumer confidence are no match for your optimism. That will see us through. Just like Dunkirk eh? (obviously we were f'ucked for 40 years after that, but you get the idea)

[moonraker]

Things aren't so black and white in the current situation that they can be classified as good or bad. That depends on individuals and business circumstances. Exporters will view the weak pound as good, as will the UK tourist industry, which is anticipating record numbers of visitors. The cut in the base rate will mean that those with mortgages will benefit from lower repayments. And as I said, it is also very encouraging that there are a number of countries keen to do trade deals with us post Brexit. I've been around long enough to realise that changes to the political climate take rather more than a few weeks for their real impact to be felt. I suggest that you calm yourself and wait until we have properly exited the EU and by the end of the two years following our pressing of the article 50 button, that will be the time to make a more reasoned judgement of our future prospects.

 

And there is the problem no one knows how to trigger article 50, legal council cannot agree,the politicians are pontificating and do not have a plan. Even when this is sorted I would bet my shirt the Brexiteers will be widely split as the outcome will not address many of the issues that they were promised Brexits magic wand magically resolve.

[Wes Tender]

Thats the spirit Wes. Analysis, experience, statistics, measures, comparisons, models and evaporation of business / consumer confidence are no match for your optimism. That will see us through. Just like Dunkirk eh? (obviously we were f'ucked for 40 years after that, but you get the idea)

 

[Verbal]

Brexit - brought to you by the people who delivered Hinckley Point, Heathrow's third runway, HS2, Universal Credit, Southern Rail, and all PFI and IT contracts.

 

Slip sliding away...

[Lord Duckhunter]

Even when this is sorted I would bet my shirt the Brexiteers will be widely split

 

God some of you remoaners are real planks . Of course George Galloways Brexit vision is entirely different to IDS' or David D's . Frank Field had totally different reasons for voting than Nigel. Exactly like the remain camp . Jezz voted remain for a socialist Europe , Osborne for something else , the unions are "widely split " from the Tory party but were both on the same side. If we'd been stupid enough to vote remain and somebody posted that the remain camp were " widely split" on the future it would have been laughable . Of course Brexit are split . It was a coalition of various elements coming together on one issue , an issue that united The Eton mess in government with the TUC , Corbyn with Nicolas Soames and The Guardian with the Mail on Sunday .

[moonraker]

God some of you remoaners are real planks . Of course George Galloways Brexit vision is entirely different to IDS' or David D's . Frank Field had totally different reasons for voting than Nigel. Exactly like the remain camp . Jezz voted remain for a socialist Europe , Osborne for something else , the unions are "widely split " from the Tory party but were both on the same side. If we'd been stupid enough to vote remain and somebody posted that the remain camp were " widely split" on the future it would have been laughable . Of course Brexit are split . It was a coalition of various elements coming together on one issue , an issue that united The Eton mess in government with the TUC , Corbyn with Nicolas Soames and The Guardian with the Mail on Sunday .

 

As one plank to another I was not referring to the self interested politicians alliance but the ordinary British voters who have been royally conned. The promise and lies of your swivel eyed looney mates can never be realised or delivered, but hey ho you just keep on with the insults, the remain camp had one and only one promise, that we would stay in the EU, it required no unholy alliance or lies but still the politicians f**ked it up.

[Wes Tender]

As one plank to another I was not referring to the self interested politicians alliance but the ordinary British voters who have been royally conned. The promise and lies of your swivel eyed looney mates can never be realised or delivered, but hey ho you just keep on with the insults, the remain camp had one and only one promise, that we would stay in the EU, it required no unholy alliance or lies but still the politicians f**ked it up.

 

Why would the ordinary voter feel conned? The question on the ballot paper was plain enough; do you wish to remain as part of the EU, or do you wish to leave the EU. Provided that we leave the EU, then those who voted for that will be content. Anything else that ensues will satisfy different people in different ways, depending on what their priorities were in the campaign. Of course, only the truly blinkered would argue that the remain camp had only one promise, as the ongoing progression from a majority vote to remain would ultimately lead to further integration into a United states of Europe with further loss off sovereignty, much increased expenditure towards propping up the failing Euro-zone, increasing problems with uncontrolled immigration, etc. Believing that voting to remain was a vote for the status quo was naive in the extreme.

 

In the insult stakes though, you have pole position; calling somebody a plank is pretty mild stuff compared to calling somebody a swivel-eyed loony, I realise that you are still a bit sore about the result, but you really do need to calm yourself and accept that those who voted to leave the EU did so for their own reasons and that they are as entitled to their stand as much as you are. It does you no favours making out that they must be a bit thick, although I realise that it must make you feel so super intelligent and superior. Where the politicians f**ked it up, was in taking exactly that arrogant superior attitude, which probably antagonised a portion of the electorate to give them a good kicking.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Well said Wes . "Ordinary " voters are not stupid . They didn't think they were voting for exactly the version of Brexit they wanted . People understood that Frank Fields version of Brexit was different than Michael Goves , just as the TUC's version of in differed from the Tories . What they were voting for was getting out of the EU and then for our democratically elected politicians to determine the future of the country

[buctootim]

What they were voting for was getting out of the EU and then for our democratically elected politicians to determine the future of the country

 

No they weren't. They were voting out of the EU in the expectation that something would happen as a consequence - that immigration would fall or Britain would drop EU laws or we would save money. Leavers may not have all had the same vision for post EU, but the idea that simply leaving is enough is risible. A majority of people would not have voted for "Leave the EU after which maybe nothing will happen apart from the economy hits a wall".

[Lord Duckhunter]

No they weren't. They were voting out of the EU in the expectation that something would happen as a consequence - that immigration would fall or Britain would drop EU laws or we would save money. Leavers may not have all had the same vision for post EU, but the idea that simply leaving is enough is risible. A majority of people would not have voted for "Leave the EU after which maybe nothing will happen apart from the economy hits a wall".

 

Nobody said nothing will happen , it was a vote for the future

 

They voted to take back control and they belived that we'd be better off controlling our own affairs . Lets see what state the EU's economy is in 10 years and then compare it to ours , then we'll see which one hit a wall .

Edited 5 August, 2016 by Lord Duckhunter

[Whitey Grandad]

Nobody said nothing will happen , it was a vote for the future

 

They voted to take back control and they belived that we'd be better off controlling our own affairs . Lets see what state the EU's economy is in 10 years and then compare it to ours , then we'll see which one hit a wall .

 

You can't take back what you've never lost. We have (had) a veto over anything that mattered. If anything we have now lost control of our future and are dependent on the vagaries of other nations. The Bwrecksiteers were full of such empty rhetoric and emotive soundbites but now they haven't got the slightest clue as to how we should proceed from here. Simply hoping for the best is not going to be enough. There is no room for any Polyannas in today's world.

[Wes Tender]

You can't take back what you've never lost. We have (had) a veto over anything that mattered. If anything we have now lost control of our future and are dependent on the vagaries of other nations. The Bwrecksiteers were full of such empty rhetoric and emotive soundbites but now they haven't got the slightest clue as to how we should proceed from here. Simply hoping for the best is not going to be enough. There is no room for any Polyannas in today's world.

 

How have we lost control of our future? Stop being so melodramatic. History shows that we have always been dependent on the vagaries of other nations, as has Europe and everywhere else. I suppose that you are now going to deny that the Remainians Project Fear constituted emotive sound bites. I suggest that you wait a few months to observe developments before assuming that the Government are clueless about how to proceed.

[hutch]

You can't take back what you've never lost. We have (had) a veto over anything that mattered.

 

Unanimity

 

EU decisions taken in the Council are subject either to majority voting or to a unanimity requirement. Unanimity applies to a dwindling number of areas, notably the Common Foreign and Security Policy, the raising of Community budget revenues, treaty amendments, new treaties and some aspects of Justice and Home Affairs.

 

Some would say that many things that mattered are only covered by qualified majority vote. And I'm sure an avid scholar such as yourself is very much aware of the progressive chipping away at both veto rules and majority definitions. The most recent dilution of the majority requirement is covered in the 2014 rule change.

[Lord Duckhunter]

We didn't have a veto over who could work here or who received our benefits . I guess that's not important in Whitey World

[scotty]

You can't take back what you've never lost. We have (had) a veto over anything that mattered.

 

The Irish had a veto as well, which they tried to use twice, against the Nice treaty and the Lisbon treaty. So they were told to be good little children, stop sulking, sit down and try again until they got the answer right.

[Whitey Grandad]

We didn't have a veto over who could work here or who received our benefits . I guess that's not important in Whitey World

We had a choice over who received benefits, different members have different criteria.

[Whitey Grandad]

How have we lost control of our future? Stop being so melodramatic. History shows that we have always been dependent on the vagaries of other nations, as has Europe and everywhere else. I suppose that you are now going to deny that the Remainians Project Fear constituted emotive sound bites. I suggest that you wait a few months to observe developments before assuming that the Government are clueless about how to proceed.

The government are not the Bwrecksiteers, or rather the Bwrecksiteers are not the government. Certainly David (flunked his A levels) Davis seems bewildered by it all.

[Wade Garrett]

I see the remainers are so classy in defeat. Project Fear is alive and well. Unfortunately for them, the sky hasn't fallen down yet.

[Lord Duckhunter]

We had a choice over who received benefits

 

No we didn't . If we did EU nationals wouldn't get child benefit for children living abroad

[Wade Garrett]

FTSE just hit a 52 week high. Don't tell George Osborne or Mark Carney.

 

Pair of w@nkers.

[buctootim]

FTSE just hit a 52 week high. Don't tell George Osborne or Mark Carney.

 

Pair of w@nkers.

 

Because the pound has dropped so much its made British companies cheap to buy for foreigners

[Johnny Bognor]

FTSE just hit a 52 week high. Don't tell George Osborne or Mark Carney.

 

Pair of w@nkers.

Wait, you're not supposed to talk about the FTSE 100 since the referendum.

 

You're only supposed to talk about the FTSE 250, despite no one ever talking about it before. And guess what... wait a minute... that's up too..

 

Hold on... Whiteread is down since the referendum. Maybe that's a sign...Maybe it suggests remainers are crying into their beer, rather than drinking it

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[shurlock]

So markets are responding positively to monetary stimulus which is only being introduced because the Bank of England sees clear downside risks to the economy because of Brexit.

 

Only in the topsy-turvy, confused world of the Brexiters is this trumpeted as a victory. The level of understanding on this board is more cringeworthy than taking a bird to the football and watching her clap and cheer at all the wrong parts.

Edited 8 August, 2016 by shurlock

[Verbal]

FTSE just hit a 52 week high. Don't tell George Osborne or Mark Carney.

 

Pair of w@nkers.

 

That would be the same Mark Carney who's been forced to reduce interest rates to the lowest they've been since the seventeenth century, and who's reintroduced quantitative easing, to counter the huge negative impact on the economy of the Brexit vote?

 

That Mark Carney?

 

You delusionists are lucky that there's a remainer at the helm of the Bank of England who has a decent grasp of how the economy actually works and who quietly gets on and shovels up the crap that Brexiters - without a single clue about what to do next - have left behind.

[Wade Garrett]

That would be the same Mark Carney who's been forced to reduce interest rates to the lowest they've been since the seventeenth century, and who's reintroduced quantitative easing, to counter the huge negative impact on the economy of the Brexit vote?

 

That Mark Carney?

 

You delusionists are lucky that there's a remainer at the helm of the Bank of England who has a decent grasp of how the economy actually works and who quietly gets on and shovels up the crap that Brexiters - without a single clue about what to do next - have left behind.

 

The Mark Carney who was sucking Osborne off during the referendum campaign, and did the economy damage with his domesday Brexit scenarios.

 

Even Mervyn King said Carney shouldn't be commenting and was being irresponsible.

[aintforever]

Because the pound has dropped so much its made British companies cheap to buy for foreigners

 

So FTSE goes down it's bad, FTSE goes up it's bad.

 

**** me, no wonder the British public took no notice of these ****** bankers and stockbrokers when they decided to vote brexit.

[Whitey Grandad]

So FTSE goes down it's bad, FTSE goes up it's bad.

 

**** me, no wonder the British public took no notice of these ****** bankers and stockbrokers when they decided to vote brexit.

All things being equal, FTSE going up is good. £ dropping in value is bad and trumps FTSE

[aintforever]

All things being equal, FTSE going up is good. £ dropping in value is bad and trumps FTSE

 

£ dropping is good for some, bad for others.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37009735

 

Personally I couldn't give a monkeys either way.

[Whitey Grandad]

£ dropping is good for some, bad for others.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37009735

 

Personally I couldn't give a monkeys either way.

Overall it's bad. What's more important is that changes in the FTSE should be considered in conjunction with the $ rate.

[OldNick]

Overall it's bad. What's more important is that changes in the FTSE should be considered in conjunction with the $ rate.

The sick man of Europe became one of the strongest in Europe mostly on the back of being part of the EU.

I do agree with the Brexits regarding the burocrats who seem to be Sepp Blatters, but to kick 40% of your business in to touch is not clever.

I was talking to somebody who is very much near the top of the negotiations and there is a feeling that Europe will stall and the 2 years will be up and we will have to adopt the WTO terms of tariffs and quotas, that would be bad for our exporters.

The Europeans don't have to agree to anything but leave us hanging.

[Sour Mash]

The sick man of Europe became one of the strongest in Europe mostly on the back of being part of the EU.

I do agree with the Brexits regarding the burocrats who seem to be Sepp Blatters, but to kick 40% of your business in to touch is not clever.

I was talking to somebody who is very much near the top of the negotiations and there is a feeling that Europe will stall and the 2 years will be up and we will have to adopt the WTO terms of tariffs and quotas, that would be bad for our exporters.

The Europeans don't have to agree to anything but leave us hanging.

No-one has kicked 40% of business into touch, you sound ridiculous.

[OldNick]

No-one has kicked 40% of business into touch, you sound ridiculous.

time will tell. If we don't get a Trade deal with the EU we have. I also had clients from Norway today and they said that they hope that we don't use the Norway way, they complained they have all the negatives and costs without any input into the regulations they have to follow if they wish to do business with Europe.

[Verbal]

The Mark Carney who was sucking Osborne off during the referendum campaign, and did the economy damage with his domesday Brexit scenarios.

 

Even Mervyn King said Carney shouldn't be commenting and was being irresponsible.

 

And Carney had a perfectly reasonable, unanswerable response: it would have been wildly irresponsible not to warn of precisely the dangers that have come to pass. And he wasn't talking about the economy like on here, where it's measured hilariously as a movement up or down of the FTSE. He was talking about an economy that suddenly needed the lowest interest rates since the 1690s and the hopeful reintroduction of QE - an economy where a whole range of indicators are suddenly pointing downwards.

 

Carney's wider point was that the Bank of England had to have a plan in the event that Brexit won - not to have had one would have been irresponsible. King, on the other hand, who presided in the BoE during the run-up to the credit crunch, has hardly emerged with his reputation intact.

 

Compare and contrast with the three Brexiteers and their adoring acolytes. Six weeks past the referendum and still not a single clue as to what 'Brexit' means.

 

So here's a question: can you think of a single example of anyone successfully negotiating a deal while unable to even articulate what they want?

[Lord Duckhunter]

6 weeks and the main remoaner is complaining that David, Boris & The good Dr haven't updated us yet . What do you want ,weekly updates ?

 

The continued crying, bitterness and whinging makes our victory even sweeter , keep it up please .

[Guided Missile]

He was talking about an economy that suddenly needed the lowest interest rates since the 1690s and the hopeful reintroduction of QE - an economy where a whole range of indicators are suddenly pointing downwards.

Interest rates were at their lowest since the 1690's in 2010. QE started in 2008. What's your point?

[Wade Garrett]

And Carney had a perfectly reasonable, unanswerable response: it would have been wildly irresponsible not to warn of precisely the dangers that have come to pass. And he wasn't talking about the economy like on here, where it's measured hilariously as a movement up or down of the FTSE. He was talking about an economy that suddenly needed the lowest interest rates since the 1690s and the hopeful reintroduction of QE - an economy where a whole range of indicators are suddenly pointing downwards.

 

Carney's wider point was that the Bank of England had to have a plan in the event that Brexit won - not to have had one would have been irresponsible. King, on the other hand, who presided in the BoE during the run-up to the credit crunch, has hardly emerged with his reputation intact.

 

Compare and contrast with the three Brexiteers and their adoring acolytes. Six weeks past the referendum and still not a single clue as to what 'Brexit' means.

 

So here's a question: can you think of a single example of anyone successfully negotiating a deal while unable to even articulate what they want?

 

Bullsh*t. He got the job because he agreed to be nothing more than Osborne's puppet. Embarrassing. What other Bank governor would spread unfounded doom and gloom. Surprised Cameron didn't knight him for sucking his left testicle.

[Wes Tender]

The sick man of Europe became one of the strongest in Europe mostly on the back of being part of the EU.

I do agree with the Brexits regarding the burocrats who seem to be Sepp Blatters, but to kick 40% of your business in to touch is not clever.

I was talking to somebody who is very much near the top of the negotiations and there is a feeling that Europe will stall and the 2 years will be up and we will have to adopt the WTO terms of tariffs and quotas, that would be bad for our exporters.

The Europeans don't have to agree to anything but leave us hanging.

 

We transformed from being the sick man of Europe into one of the strongest because Maggie Thatcher emasculated the Trade Unions who were the main cause of our industrial and financial decline.

 

What do you mean "kick 40% of our business into touch?" Are we to cease all of that trade with the EU? No, of course we aren't. Naturally we will continue with most of that trade provided that the EU don't place tariffs on it that persuade us that we would do better sourcing some of it with the rest of the World. Trade with the EU was declining substantially before the Referendum, whilst increasing with the rest of the World and there is no reason why that trend would not have continued even had we remained in the EU. As we will be free to set up our own trade deals with other countries now, that trend will inevitably accelerate.

 

The two years only commences when we trigger Article 50. It is to our advantage that we keep the EU hanging on until we have organised ourselves by putting out feelers towards other trade possibilities in the rest of the World, appointed a team of experienced negotiators and also to allow time for the political landscape to change following our Brexit, which could strengthen our negotiating position.

 

These Europeans you speak of presumably include us. Or did you mean the EU? The two things are not the same. We are not leaving Europe, you know.

[shurlock]

We transformed from being the sick man of Europe into one of the strongest because Maggie Thatcher emasculated the Trade Unions who were the main cause of our industrial and financial decline.

 

What do you mean "kick 40% of our business into touch?" Are we to cease all of that trade with the EU? No, of course we aren't. Naturally we will continue with most of that trade provided that the EU don't place tariffs on it that persuade us that we would do better sourcing some of it with the rest of the World. Trade with the EU was declining substantially before the Referendum, whilst increasing with the rest of the World and there is no reason why that trend would not have continued even had we remained in the EU. As we will be free to set up our own trade deals with other countries now, that trend will inevitably accelerate.

 

The two years only commences when we trigger Article 50. It is to our advantage that we keep the EU hanging on until we have organised ourselves by putting out feelers towards other trade possibilities in the rest of the World, appointed a team of experienced negotiators and also to allow time for the political landscape to change following our Brexit, which could strengthen our negotiating position.

 

These Europeans you speak of presumably include us. Or did you mean the EU? The two things are not the same. We are not leaving Europe, you know.

 

[Wes Tender]

[moonraker]

Great to see the easy ride to Global trade deals is on track, oops China miffed already, looks like thats one major trade deal likley to drag out for years.

[shurlock]

Great to see the easy ride to Global trade deals is on track, oops China miffed already, looks like thats one major trade deal likley to drag out for years.

 

Not to worry a deal with Tuvalu is still on track. TCDAJFU

[Sour Mash]

time will tell. If we don't get a Trade deal with the EU we have. I also had clients from Norway today and they said that they hope that we don't use the Norway way, they complained they have all the negatives and costs without any input into the regulations they have to follow if they wish to do business with Europe.

No, time won't tell. We haven't kicked 40% of our trade into touch, you've just made that up for some weird reason.

[Whitey Grandad]

No, time won't tell. We haven't kicked 40% of our trade into touch, you've just made that up for some weird reason.

Yes it will. Everything depends on where we end up with access to the Single Market. Britain has done very well out of the EU since this market was established and anything less than the free unfettered access that we enjoy at present will eat into that 40%. The possible outcomes range from bad to very bad to disastrous. The people that deal in these matters know this which is why they are upset about it. There is no upside to any aspect of this, no 'bright side of life', no positives. Why anyone should feel the need to gloat over our situation is beyond me.

[Sour Mash]

Yes it will. Everything depends on where we end up with access to the Single Market. Britain has done very well out of the EU since this market was established and anything less than the free unfettered access that we enjoy at present will eat into that 40%. The possible outcomes range from bad to very bad to disastrous. The people that deal in these matters know this which is why they are upset about it. There is no upside to any aspect of this, no 'bright side of life', no positives. Why anyone should feel the need to gloat over our situation is beyond me.

Making stuff up again I see.

[Wes Tender]

Yes it will. Everything depends on where we end up with access to the Single Market. Britain has done very well out of the EU since this market was established and anything less than the free unfettered access that we enjoy at present will eat into that 40%. The possible outcomes range from bad to very bad to disastrous. The people that deal in these matters know this which is why they are upset about it. There is no upside to any aspect of this, no 'bright side of life', no positives. Why anyone should feel the need to gloat over our situation is beyond me.

 

And then despite the percentage of our trade with the EU having declined by more than 10% over the past fifteen or so years before the Referendum, you'll be able to turn round and blame our Brexit on the decline. It couldn't possibly be because the increasingly sclerotic and over-bureaucratic EU has made it easier to gain trading advantages with the faster developing countries of the World, could it?

 

Has the situation of this recent pre-Brexit 10% decreased trade with the EU been classifiable as bad to very bad to disastrous? I don't recall hearing a peep from you about how disastrous it was that our trade with the EU had declined to this extent, but now you are worrying yourself to death because of the impending collapse (in your mind) of our trade position post Brexit.

 

Of course, trade was only one aspect of the Brexit campaign and it is yet to be seen what transpires as a result. The time to fret is after negotiations with the EU during the two years post Article 50, when I'm confident that there will be upsides and positives and reasons to be optimistic of our future trade prospects, not only with the EU, but with the rest of the World. The trade aspects of Brexit are weighed up in the minds of most of the Brexiteers alongside the other benefits of our leaving, something that most Remainians seem incapable of understanding.

[Whitey Grandad]

Making stuff up again I see.

It's not just me, is it?

 

My quote about bad to disastrous came from an analysis of a few weeks ago. You can carry on living in your own dream world where wishful thinking conquers all but reality has bigger teeth and bites deeper.

[Whitey Grandad]

And then despite the percentage of our trade with the EU having declined by more than 10% over the past fifteen or so years before the Referendum, you'll be able to turn round and blame our Brexit on the decline. It couldn't possibly be because the increasingly sclerotic and over-bureaucratic EU has made it easier to gain trading advantages with the faster developing countries of the World, could it?

 

Has the situation of this recent pre-Brexit 10% decreased trade with the EU been classifiable as bad to very bad to disastrous? I don't recall hearing a peep from you about how disastrous it was that our trade with the EU had declined to this extent, but now you are worrying yourself to death because of the impending collapse (in your mind) of our trade position post Brexit.

 

Of course, trade was only one aspect of the Brexit campaign and it is yet to be seen what transpires as a result. The time to fret is after negotiations with the EU during the two years post Article 50, when I'm confident that there will be upsides and positives and reasons to be optimistic of our future trade prospects, not only with the EU, but with the rest of the World. The trade aspects of Brexit are weighed up in the minds of most of the Brexiteers alongside the other benefits of our leaving, something that most Remainians seem incapable of understanding.

You might be conflating percentages with amounts.

 

Please remind me again, what are these 'other benefits?

[Wes Tender]

You might be conflating percentages with amounts.

 

Please remind me again, what are these 'other benefits?

 

No, I was talking percentages.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11700443/The-EUs-dwindling-importance-to-UK-trade-in-three-charts.html

 

Am I really to believe that during a campaign lasting many weeks, where the arguments for and against our membership of the EU were debated nightly, you appear not to have heard any of the arguments for leaving? Or did you just put your fingers in your ears or turn the volume down so as not to hear any criticism of your beloved EU?