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Guided Missile

By Guided Missile,
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Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum  

217 members have voted

  1. 1. Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum

    • Leave Before - Leave Now
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    • Leave Before - Not Bothered Now
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    • Remain Before - Remain Now
      127
    • Remain Before - Leave Now
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    • Not Bothered Before - Leave Now
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    • I've never been bothered - Why am I on this Thread?
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    • No second Ref - 2016 was Definitive and Binding
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Verbal

Verbal

Posted
Posted
"

Numerous sources have confirmed the British government is deliberately aiming for a no deal Brexit outcome in order to take advantage of extended powers available to them under the scenario - including civil contingencies and so-called Henry VIII. The Chequers plan is a ploy designed to engage the EU in distraction from the desired British outcome and create a false narrative at home in the UK that the EU are responsible. Sources claim emergency legislation is being prepared for January next year (2019) when the Withdrawal Act no deal deadlines pass - this would be 29/01 and the civil contingencies secretariat have been convened as per leaked Hammond notes recently, adding credibility. The British government aims to prevent France and other EU countries from properly preparing for no deal by continuing to falsely engage in the negotiations in bad faith, keeping the EU27 from moving from early stage plans to contingency measures as long as possible. The British government hopes this collateral damage will add to planned disruption around the EU election processes next spring and they will use dissident relationships to further this - likely to include Orban. On Ireland: The British government hopes the EU will be forced to move first and install a hard border in Ireland in order to avoid blame itself for a situation it has created. Further sources claim the data harvested during Repeal 8th will be used in some "unity" campaigns. The British government has progressed trade talks with the US to the point of potential emergency supply, moving substantially beyond informal discussions - though the Trump administration should not be taken at its word, a degree of reliance on this has been factored in UK side.The government intends to create a tax haven on the EU's doorstep to exploit financial service deregulation. This speaks for itself."

 

Of course that pre-supposes that nobody in the EU will read that paragraph.

 

No one in the EU will understand it because it's dual language - English and horsesh it.

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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

Posted
Posted
The EU will give us nothing as they know that the chances of a second referendum increase by the day.

 

The EU will give us nothing because Theresa can't even tell them what she actually wants. They have already said as much.

 

Her little tour of Europe over the last couple of days is just a charade. We know it, the EU know it, and she knows it. She isn't fooling anybody, and she is just embarrassing herself and the country, which is already a total laughing stock in the eyes of EU and other other world leaders.

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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted
It's £6.30...every 3 years. So for a family of 4 it's £8.40 a year...Anyone who spins this as a negative is a moron, it's significantly cheaper then visas to other countries and the EU have said we will have access to this deal or no deal

 

It part of a low level of hassle which will creep back into everyday life. Its not just the money - its remembering to apply for the visa, to actually spend time doing it and then queing up in the aliens queue rather than the EU passports line an once you get in you face higher roaming charges. Not massive but enough to make things like impulse weekends away much more difficult.

 

Thats what leaving the EU means, additional minor hassles in a thousand areas of life.

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OldNick

OldNick

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It's £6.30...every 3 years. So for a family of 4 it's £8.40 a year...Anyone who spins this as a negative is a moron, it's significantly cheaper then visas to other countries and the EU have said we will have access to this deal or no deal.

 

Sent from my SM-J600FN using Tapatalk

So something costing more is not a negative lol and you say Im the moron
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Verbal

Verbal

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Destroying one childish fantasy after another, Ivan Rogers latest intervention:

 

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13/full-speech-sir-ivan-rogers-on-brexit/#

 

That should be set reading for Brexit fantasists everywhere. However, Rogers is dealing purely in facts, so Brexiters have the usual get-out when reading something that ruins their (what's laughingly called) worldview: to insist on living in an alternate universe where facts don't matter.

 

Among many stand-outs is this bit:

 

Why does the current U.K. debate on sovereignty leave so many corporate players mystified and cold – and I am not, incidentally, for one minute saying such views outweigh others’?

 

Because in “taking back control” over our laws and leaving the adjudication and enforcement machinery of what used to be our “home” market, we are privileging notional autonomy over law- making over real power to set the rules by which in practice we shall be governed, since departure from norms set by others when we are not in the room will in practice greatly constrain our room for manoeuvre.

 

The massive costs of deviation will force large scale compliance with rules set when we are not part of setting them.

 

The EU will decide, on sovereignty and fiscal stability grounds, that it is intolerable for certain kinds of activity to take place completely outside its jurisdiction. We may hate it, and in many instances, it may be unnecessary and unwise.

 

What, from the outside, though, can we do about it?

 

We shall, in practice, struggle to achieve even observer status in the setting of policies which will have a major impact on our national life.

 

This is a beautifully effective demolition of the sheer, mad fantasy of greater 'sovereignty' - a concept that no Brexiter I've ever heard has understood. The point is though - in the pursuit of 'sovereignty, Brexiters will have badly weakened the UK sovereignty, whether it's under May's deal, no deal, Norway+, Canada+ (there is no +++), or any variant of Brexit whatever.

 

So when Brexiteers whine about being described as stupid, you can take it as read that they are themselves giving proof of their own stupidity, without any help from remoaners at all.

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LGTL

LGTL

Posted
Posted
It part of a low level of hassle which will creep back into everyday life. Its not just the money - its remembering to apply for the visa, to actually spend time doing it and then queing up in the aliens queue rather than the EU passports line an once you get in you face higher roaming charges. Not massive but enough to make things like impulse weekends away much more difficult.

 

Thats what leaving the EU means, additional minor hassles in a thousand areas of life.

 

Yeah but just think how proud we’ll be when we show them our little blue passports.

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted (edited)
That should be set reading for Brexit fantasists everywhere. However, Rogers is dealing purely in facts, so Brexiters have the usual get-out when reading something that ruins their (what's laughingly called) worldview: to insist on living in an alternate universe where facts don't matter.

 

Among many stand-outs is this bit:

 

 

 

This is a beautifully effective demolition of the sheer, mad fantasy of greater 'sovereignty' - a concept that no Brexiter I've ever heard has understood. The point is though - in the pursuit of 'sovereignty, Brexiters will have badly weakened the UK sovereignty, whether it's under May's deal, no deal, Norway+, Canada+ (there is no +++), or any variant of Brexit whatever.

 

So when Brexiteers whine about being described as stupid, you can take it as read that they are themselves giving proof of their own stupidity, without any help from remoaners at all.

 

Yep an excellent speech.

 

Annu Bradford of Columbia University builds on the sovereignty point in the following article. Also worth a read.

 

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/2c55/404a1e09859c289644c517020aecd7fe48e4.pdf

Edited by shurlock
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ecuk268

ecuk268

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Posted
The EU will give us nothing because Theresa can't even tell them what she actually wants. They have already said as much.

 

Her little tour of Europe over the last couple of days is just a charade. We know it, the EU know it, and she knows it. She isn't fooling anybody, and she is just embarrassing herself and the country, which is already a total laughing stock in the eyes of EU and other other world leaders.

 

27 countries have more negotiating power than 1 country. What a surprise!

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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Posted
Juncker’s sciatica playing up again today. God what would the #metoo SJW’s make if Trump behaved with birds like this.

 

http://

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Keep fighting the good fight Lord D. Equality for chicks and that.
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whelk

whelk

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Posted
I was called "metro elite" the other day by Orange. What is it?

 

A boll ocks term the likes of Farage and Trump use to try and link them to the the people normally just referring to educated people who are in positions of power as if the antithesis to the ‘man in the street’ See also liberal elite.

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted
Tony has clearly rattled Teresa. Right message wrong messenger (for many)

 

It isn't the right message. If you think that the right message is to hold a referendum on our membership of the EU and then rat on the decision before we have even left, then you clearly aren't a democrat. She is quite right to give him both barrels. It's a pity that she isn't a bit more blunt towards the EU. We have all these dinosaur ex-PMs and other former big political beasts coming out in favour of a second referendum, when all of them played a big part in getting us into the position we find ourselves in now. The hypocrisy from some of them in mind-blowing.

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ashnats

ashnats

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Posted
It isn't the right message. If you think that the right message is to hold a referendum on our membership of the EU and then rat on the decision before we have even left, then you clearly aren't a democrat. She is quite right to give him both barrels. It's a pity that she isn't a bit more blunt towards the EU. We have all these dinosaur ex-PMs and other former big political beasts coming out in favour of a second referendum, when all of them played a big part in getting us into the position we find ourselves in now. The hypocrisy from some of them in mind-blowing.

 

agree. asking the people is undemocratic.

 

Things could have been very different without the Gina Miller court ruling and the misjudged GE. Without those, we would already have a signed deal (theresa's deal) and be rioting in the streets by now.

 

For sure - the EU will not be negotiating if they think remain is still an option. Think this is what is frustrating the process right now.

 

One thing for sure, everything would be a lot better if Corbyn could just **** off and let someone competent take charge of the opposition.

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buctootim

buctootim

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One thing for sure, everything would be a lot better if Corbyn could just **** off and let someone competent take charge of the opposition.

 

Whatever you think about Blair he has exposed the huge weaknesses in Corbyn's leadership skills and political nous. Blair has rattled May far more in a couple of speeches and tv interviews than Corbyn has managed to achieve in three years as leader of the opposition.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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agree. asking the people is undemocratic.

 

Things could have been very different without the Gina Miller court ruling and the misjudged GE. Without those, we would already have a signed deal (theresa's deal) and be rioting in the streets by now.

 

For sure - the EU will not be negotiating if they think remain is still an option. Think this is what is frustrating the process right now.

 

One thing for sure, everything would be a lot better if Corbyn could just **** off and let someone competent take charge of the opposition.

Tough to argue with any of that.
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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted
If a couple agree to divorce because the wife wants to leave the husband, and all the preliminaries are completed, but the wife then changes her mind, do they have to go through with the decree nisi, or can the papers be withdrawn ?

 

Crap analogy comparing it to a divorce. It is much nearer the mark comparing it to terminating one's membership of a club, the decision having been taken by the members.

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whelk

whelk

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Posted
It isn't the right message. If you think that the right message is to hold a referendum on our membership of the EU and then rat on the decision before we have even left, then you clearly aren't a democrat. She is quite right to give him both barrels. It's a pity that she isn't a bit more blunt towards the EU. We have all these dinosaur ex-PMs and other former big political beasts coming out in favour of a second referendum, when all of them played a big part in getting us into the position we find ourselves in now. The hypocrisy from some of them in mind-blowing.

 

His message is May has no strategy and cannot lead.

Just banging with one option is not a strategy. He says need three proposals to take to parliament ( current deal, Norway or Canada) and only if nothing gets passed then back to people.

 

Love the way so many stupid cnts glibly throwing around ‘you aren’t democratic’, ‘death of democracy’ type jibes. There isn’t anything to vote on you plum.

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badgerx16

badgerx16

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Posted
Crap analogy comparing it to a divorce. It is much nearer the mark comparing it to terminating one's membership of a club, the decision having been taken by the members.

Is it a crap analogy because it doesn't fit your personal perspective ? If you terminate membership of a club you don't go through extended negotiations to determine how much money you might still owe them, or which perks of membership you still want to retain, you tear up your membership card and are escorted to the door.

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted
Is it a crap analogy because it doesn't fit your personal perspective ? If you terminate membership of a club you don't go through extended negotiations to determine how much money you might still owe them, or which perks of membership you still want to retain, you tear up your membership card and are escorted to the door.

 

And if it was like a divorce, then the decision would have been made by one or other of the parents, not having it made for them by a third party. The decision was made by the electorate for the government, which is why it was a crap analogy.

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted (edited)
And if it was like a divorce, then the decision would have been made by one or other of the parents, not having it made for them by a third party. The decision was made by the electorate for the government, which is why it was a crap analogy.

Which 3rd party is making the decision ? The original decision was indeed made by the electorate, who may subsequently, it seems to some, have changed their mind once the truth of the situation started to emerge.

Edited by badgerx16
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Batman

Batman

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Which 3rd party is making the decision ? The original decision was indeed made by the electorate, who may subsequently, it seems to some, have changed their mind once the truth of the situation started to emerge.

 

And to some others, have not changed their mind

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