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Guided Missile

By Guided Missile,
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Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum  

217 members have voted

  1. 1. Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum

    • Leave Before - Leave Now
      46
    • Leave Before - Remain Now
      10
    • Leave Before - Not Bothered Now
      2
    • Remain Before - Remain Now
      127
    • Remain Before - Leave Now
      7
    • Remain Before - Not Bothered Now
      1
    • Not Bothered Before - Leave Now
      3
    • Not Bothered Before - Remain Now
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    • I've never been bothered - Why am I on this Thread?
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    • No second Ref - 2016 was Definitive and Binding
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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
You obviously missed the statements by then Prime Minister Cameron and other major politicians saying that whatever the electorate vote for will be implemented by them and that a simple majority would be sufficient. There ensued the GE manifestos in 2017 stating the same and the substantial majority in Parliament to trigger Article 50. There was the opportunity immediately after the vote for the Government to have said, "right we hear what you want, but we're not going to implement it, because it was only advisory and we think that we're better off inside the EU". But then they would have risked the repercussion of civil unrest unprecedented in our modern history, so they thought better of it.

 

It is a bit feeble two and a half years after the referendum vote suggesting that it was purely advisory. Who would dare take that line now in Parliament?

 

All fair points. But Lord D seemed to be looking for some kind of justification for re-running the vote before the previous one had been enacted. The fact that it was non-binding would appear to be a more than valid reason.

Edited by Sheaf Saint
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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
Posted (edited)
Result imminent. As much as I despise the woman, I hope she wins to silence the ERG extremists.

 

I don't despise her. In some ways I quite admire the way, like an aging prize fighter, she has been repeatedly smashed in the face the, last two years, but keeps just getting back up to get punched again May Vs Rocky would be one hell of a match.

 

 

Still wouldn't vote for her though...

Edited by doddisalegend
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saint1977

saint1977

Posted
Posted
Wouldn't vote for her but the way she is trolling the ERG is hilarious. The Heisenberg of Politics.

 

JRM bit as well. He’s never had anything going against him and now the silver spoon has dropped out the first time he’s not coping well.

 

Hope for those of us that unlike him do a days work that this might be the road to some stability.

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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

Posted
Posted
Brexiteer Jacob Rees-Mogg, who submitted a letter to the 1922 committee to trigger the votem told the BBC the result was "terrible" for Theresa May.

He said: "She ought to go and see the Queen urgently and resign."

 

is he saying votes shouldn't count if you don't get the result you want....

 

Yes, seems that way.

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
Ha she got 1 more vote this time than she did in 2016

 

She was up against nobody this time and also had the payroll vote, which is about 120.

 

Whilst not the result I wanted, it’s not over yet. Maggie won the right to go through to next stage, but lost cabinet support, John Major said if he didn’t get 60% against Redwood he’d go, so to not get to 60% is poor. She won, so the critics need to suck it up. But they’ve got rid of any thought of her fighting the next GE. Also Labour can now call a confidence vote at the maximum time , the DUP & the 117 can tell the party they’ll vote against the Gov unless she goes. It’s not over by a long chalk.

 

 

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

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Posted

“Tonight the Prime Minister had 117 colleagues, that is the majority on the backbenches, who don't have confidence in her. Now these are not all these hard Brexiteer right-wingers... And they are sensible, moderate Conservatives who at this, of all times, with the stakes so high, find themselves in a position where they could not say they had confidence in the Prime Minister. So this is serious.”

 

 

Even the lush Soubry gets it. A majority of back benchers have no confidence in her.

 

 

 

 

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted
Not a great result for May but at least the headbangers and swivels in the ERG have to stfu for 12 months.

 

As for the helmets who paid good money to join the conservative party so they could install a hardliner in an imminent leadership contest :lol:

 

ShallowOblongAmericancreamdraft-size_restricted.gif

 

We don't pay for our Conservative membership in dollars. HTH

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
The members didn’t have a vote.

 

I’m sure we will this time and provided the true Conservatives get behind one candidate, a full blooded Brexit believer will walk it. They’ve got one vote already.

 

 

 

 

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Are you advocating a no deal ? If not what are you expecting? Before you answer please read at the terms we signed up to when we joined. Once you have read that you will see that the only option is take the deal on offer with a few tweaks or no deal. Unless of course you feel we can renege on our word. Whether we should have signed that is another thing but that is the position we are in period. It is a dire situation and May has her hands tied
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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted (edited)
My children and grandchildren will prosper, as will the UK once we have left the sclerotic and failing EU.
Wes I have always voted Tory, but Im ashamed of so many of them at this time. They are not acting on anything but their own political agendas. As for UKIP never have I seen a worse bunch of fools in my life.

Labour are no better, they are playing politics instead of the countries interest

Edited by OldNick
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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

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Posted
Are you advocating a no deal ? If not what are you expecting? Before you answer please read at the terms we signed up to when we joined. Once you have read that you will see that the only option is take the deal on offer with a few tweaks or no deal. Unless of course you feel we can renege on our word. Whether we should have signed that is another thing but that is the position we are in period. It is a dire situation and May has her hands tied

 

Her hands are tied because she’s tied them together herself. She has given a lesson in the art of negotiations, how not to do it. She is the most inept negotiator known to man. She’s a mixture of incompetent, deceitful and deluded. I wouldn’t trust her to run a bath, let alone a complex withdrawal agreement.

 

Anyway, we are where we are. Personally, I’ve no issue with “no deal” despite the Government & Civil failing in their duty by not preparing properly. She gave her word to the 22 that she was coming back with a legally binding mechanism for getting us out of the backstop unilaterally. Bearing in mind she lies just to get through the day, I somehow doubt this. But if she does manage to get this legally enforceable amendment, then I’ll back her turd deal. She then needs to **** off and someone competent can take over the talks over the future arrangement.

 

 

 

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OldNick

OldNick

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Posted
Her hands are tied because she’s tied them together herself. She has given a lesson in the art of negotiations, how not to do it. She is the most inept negotiator known to man. She’s a mixture of incompetent, deceitful and deluded. I wouldn’t trust her to run a bath, let alone a complex withdrawal agreement.

 

Anyway, we are where we are. Personally, I’ve no issue with “no deal” despite the Government & Civil failing in their duty by not preparing properly. She gave her word to the 22 that she was coming back with a legally binding mechanism for getting us out of the backstop unilaterally. Bearing in mind she lies just to get through the day, I somehow doubt this. But if she does manage to get this legally enforceable amendment, then I’ll back her turd deal. She then needs to **** off and someone competent can take over the talks over the future arrangement.

 

 

 

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Thank-you for your reply. Personally I believe she went with her hands tied as the terms we signed up to all those years ago were to totally screw anyone who wished to leave. Hence what is happening now.

In some ways I feel we should go for the nuclear option and do the no deal, as that would immediately focus the EU's minds. They know we are fearful of it, but Im sure privately they are as well. Ireland are playing the billy big balls, but if we do the no deal they are really shafted.

I voted to stay in as I did read the terms we were going out on and could see we were shafted.The deal has to be for all the people not just the 52% , this is something Rees Mugg and his crew dont seem to grasp

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

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The deal has to be for all the people not just the 52% , this is something Rees Mugg and his crew dont seem to grasp

 

Im sorry, but I don’t agree with this at all. There was no compromise when we voted to Remain the first time, no thought at all of the people that wanted out. Had Remain won 52/48 there wouldn’t have been talk of compromise or discussions about which parts of The EU we should withdraw from to placate the losers. It would have been full steam ahead without a second thought for the 48%. If Corbyn forms a Government winning 52% of the constituencies, he won’t water down his policies to compromise with the 48% who didn’t go labour.

 

All the alleged “rebels” want is the PM to stick to her manifesto commitments, out of the SM, out of CU and no ECJ involvement in UK. It must be the first time in history that people actually advocating party policy are called extremists.

 

 

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OldNick

OldNick

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Im sorry, but I don’t agree with this at all. There was no compromise when we voted to Remain the first time, no thought at all of the people that wanted out. Had Remain won 52/48 there wouldn’t have been talk of compromise or discussions about which parts of The EU we should withdraw from to placate the losers. It would have been full steam ahead without a second thought for the 48%. If Corbyn forms a Government winning 52% of the constituencies, he won’t water down his policies to compromise with the 48% who didn’t go labour.

 

All the alleged “rebels” want is the PM to stick to her manifesto commitments, out of the SM, out of CU and no ECJ involvement in UK. It must be the first time in history that people actually advocating party policy are called extremists.

 

 

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LD this is not a normal situation or GE it is something that has ramifications for generations. The selfish ,'we have won and so stuff everyone else' is an appalling position to take. Especially when most of our people had no idea really what they were voting for.

The deal should be for us all, not the 4% extra who made the difference.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
LD this is not a normal situation or GE it is something that has ramifications for generations. The selfish ,'we have won and so stuff everyone else' is an appalling position to take. Especially when most of our people had no idea really what they were voting for.

The deal should be for us all, not the 4% extra who made the difference.

Well that's a silly thing to say. Literally any option we take from now will not be a deal for everyone. There will be massive divisions whatever we end up doing.
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OldNick

OldNick

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Posted
Well that's a silly thing to say. Literally any option we take from now will not be a deal for everyone. There will be massive divisions whatever we end up doing.
FFS do you have to take every sentence literally? Of course no deal will ever suit 100% of the people but it should suit more that 52%
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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

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Posted
LD this is not a normal situation or GE it is something that has ramifications for generations. The selfish ,'we have won and so stuff everyone else' is an appalling position to take. Especially when most of our people had no idea really what they were voting for.

The deal should be for us all, not the 4% extra who made the difference.

 

Most of our people had no idea what they were voting for? This is a very convenient line that is trotted out by the remoaners, paraphrased as the electorate is too thick to understand what their lords and masters tell them to do. They were either voting to remain in the EU or to leave it. It was all spelled out in black and white what that meant. It meant leaving the single market and the customs union, taking back control of our money, our laws and our borders. They were also told that the economy would tank, unemployment would rise massively, house prices would tumble, there would be an emergency budget with tax rises, etc. Despite all this, they still voted by a majority to leave.

 

The deal will never be for us all, because there will always be remoaners who for whatever reason will not accept that we should leave the EU. As they cannot be accommodated by our leaving, then tough. They are in the same position as all of us who didn't want to be in the EU all those years. We try to go for a mutually beneficial Free Trade Arrangement that suits both us and the EU. If they want to set out to punish us for daring to leave and won't treat us fairly in that deal, then we leave on WTO terms and trade with them in the same way that most of the rest of the World does.

 

It isn't a cliff edge, or crashing out, nor will it be a disaster. Anybody who speaks in those terms is tending towards hysteria and should be ignored, as they are not being rational.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted (edited)
FFS do you have to take every sentence literally? Of course no deal will ever suit 100% of the people but it should suit more that 52%
Of course I'm going to take what you said literally. So what your saying is you're seeking a solution that would have a greater backing than 52% of the public? What percentage backing should it receive before it is acceptable to you? You're not going to find one that gets much more than that. Edited by hypochondriac
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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

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Posted
LD this is not a normal situation or GE it is something that has ramifications for generations. The selfish ,'we have won and so stuff everyone else' is an appalling position to take. Especially when most of our people had no idea really what they were voting for.

The deal should be for us all, not the 4% extra who made the difference.

 

The country does need to come back together and it would be great if we could get a deal that would do so. But the bottom line is we need to be out of SM,CU & ECJ. It was pretty clear that “take back control” was the theme of the Leave campaign and membership of the SM, CU and subject to the ECJ is contrary to that. Compromises around the edges of that are compatible with the result, full blown membership of any of them is clearly not.

 

The first phrase of healing is for the losing side to accept the result, until they do that, the nation will continue to be divided. The first referendum wasn’t so divisive because the Tony Benn’s, Peter Shore’s & Enoch Powell’s accepted the result. They continued to campaign to leave and continued to be critical of the EEC, but they never questioned the legitimacy of the result or the motives of the other side.

 

 

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