Brexit - Post Match Reaction

doddisalegend · 19 November, 2018

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/11/how-brexiteers-broke-history

F**k history.

That's a good article sums up a lot of leave voters I know who seem to be pinning for a time and place that only exists in their imagination rather than a reality of Britain in the modern world. (Though I will take issue with describing Waterloo as a Prussian victory as it shows a lack of understanding of how the 100 days campaign was fought.)

Guided Missile · 19 November, 2018

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/11/how-brexiteers-broke-history

F**k history.

I liked this extract from the article, a source which I have used earlier in this thread...

References to “Merkel’s Reich” abound in the rhetoric of the Brexiteers. “The Fourth Reich is here – without a shot being fired,” proclaimed Simon Heffer in the Daily Telegraph in 2016. Of course, Heffer – who also writes for the New Statesman – knows too much about history really to believe in this rhetorical overkill: what he’s talking about is nothing more than what he sees as Germany’s economic domination of Europe. He is not predicting that Merkel is going to invade France, or exterminate six million Jews, or imprison her opponents in concentration camps.

My point exactly....and who would possibly be stupid enough to think my reference to the Fourth Reich referred to the Nazis?

Apparently Herbert Von W@nkstain....

shurlock · 19 November, 2018

I liked this extract from the article, a source which I have used earlier in this thread...

My point exactly....and who would possibly be stupid enough to think my reference to the Fourth Reich referred to the Nazis?

Apparently Herbert Von W@nkstain....

Did you read the rest of it, you simpleton? In particular, the para which directly follows the paragraph you cite?

Economically, however, there is no evidence that Germany has been acting like the Nazi regime, which asset-stripped the countries it occupied, causing massive shortages of raw materials, leading to malnutrition and famine – not to mention the deliberate slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Poles and many others in eastern Europe. In fact, Germany has been spending huge amounts of money on shoring up failing economies such as that of Greece.

Obviously not - otherwise you would have thought twice before making a fool of yourself

I also didn’t realise the article discussed your threats of violence and penchant for utility poles.

Edited 19 November, 2018 by shurlock

whelk · 19 November, 2018

No shame

shurlock · 19 November, 2018

The right wing of the Conservative party “can’t organise a ****-up in a brewery, and they want to run the country”.

What does that say about the f**kwits who blindly follow them?

https://www.ft.com/content/4a786c60-ec17-11e8-8180-9cf212677a57

Sheaf Saint · 19 November, 2018

No shame

I really do wonder just how monumentally f*cking stupid you would have to be to believe that these two chancers actually give a flying f**k what's in the best interests of the working/middle classes of this country.

Wes Tender · 20 November, 2018

Whereas Corbyn, Abbott, Thornberry, McDonnell, would bugger the working and middle classes in this country because the economy run by them would tank. What does that say about the f*ckwits who vote for them?

doddisalegend · 20 November, 2018

So there is no one worth voting for in the British political system and you'd have to be a ****wit to vote for any of the current lot....

Lord Duckhunter · 20 November, 2018

This bloke spent his whole life fighting for the poor and working man. Far far more than business suck ups like Soubry, Clarke, Mandleson, Blair etc. Of course Kinnock & Jezza agreed with him, until money and leadership made them sell their principles.

http://

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Wes Tender · 20 November, 2018

So there is no one worth voting for in the British political system and you'd have to be a ****wit to vote for any of the current lot....

I can't disagree with that. Apart from a few MPs, this is the worst bunch of incompetent non-entities I can remember in my adult lifetime.

van Hanegem · 20 November, 2018

So there is no one worth voting for in the British political system and you'd have to be a ****wit to vote for any of the current lot....

Yup, you're all totally screwed...

On a positive note: these are exiting times and we're going to witness one of the biggest failures or comebacks in recent history. That's something worthwile, isnt it?

Wes Tender · 20 November, 2018

Yup, you're all totally screwed...
On a positive note: these are exiting times and we're going to witness one of the biggest failures or comebacks in recent history. That's something worthwile, isnt it?

Yep, these are certainly exiting times.

Unbelievable Jeff · 20 November, 2018

Yep, these are certainly exiting times.

Especially for the poor - it must be so exciting seeing how much food they have to get from a food bank weekly, and really exciting that it will be far, far more when we exit the EU.

benjii · 20 November, 2018

Especially for the poor - it must be so exciting seeing how much food they have to get from a food bank weekly, and really exciting that it will be far, far more when we exit the EU.

I thought we were going to run out of food? There'll be less in the "banks" then. Someone should tell them to get what they can now.

Cabbage_Face · 20 November, 2018

We won't have anything after we leave. No Food, No water, No oxygen.

Verbal · 20 November, 2018

Especially for the poor - it must be so exciting seeing how much food they have to get from a food bank weekly, and really exciting that it will be far, far more when we exit the EU.

Quite so. The misery that either version of Brexit will visit on people just hanging on will be horrific. Yet al-Tenderi and his explosive ilk only really get upset when legitimate comparisons are made between him and other death cultists, who also revel in wrecking others' lives on the altar of some version of a fantasised 'sunlit uplands'.

van Hanegem · 20 November, 2018

Quite so. The misery that either version of Brexit will visit on people just hanging on will be horrific. Yet al-Tenderi and his explosive ilk only really get upset when legitimate comparisons are made between him and other death cultists, who also revel in wrecking others' lives on the altar of some version of a fantasised 'sunlit uplands'.

Cheer up Dr. Doom, you Brits know how to survive. Sharing your potatoes with someone less fortunate will give you a wonderful feeling. Just think of it: everyone sharing what little they have left, maybe you’ll all find comfort in that and who knows, maybe these dark ages will unite the citizens again.

Verbal · 20 November, 2018

Cheer up Dr. Doom, you Brits know how to survive. Sharing your potatoes with someone less fortunate will give you a wonderful feeling. Just think of it: everyone sharing what little they have left, maybe you’ll all find comfort in that and who knows, maybe these dark ages will unite the citizens again.

It's not me you need to tell to cheer up, sunshine. It's the people who do and will depend on food banks for their family meals. It's the people who lose their jobs in places like Llanelli in order to satisfy the Brexit elite's desire to create Singapore-by-the-Thames, or the people who depend on treatments from a health service starved of 'queue-jumping' doctors and nursing staffs and opened up to rampaging US 'health' corporations.

So why not try your ignorant twaddle on these victims of Brexit? I'm sure they'll be thrilled to have you in their midst.

van Hanegem · 20 November, 2018

It's not me you need to tell to cheer up, sunshine. It's the people who do and will depend on food banks for their family meals. It's the people who lose their jobs in places like Llanelli in order to satisfy the Brexit elite's desire to create Singapore-by-the-Thames, or the people who depend on treatments from a health service starved of 'queue-jumping' doctors and nursing staffs and opened up to rampaging US 'health' corporations.

So why not try your ignorant twaddle on these victims of Brexit? I'm sure they'll be thrilled to have you in their midst.

Like I said, you’re all screwed. It’s not going to help to keep whining Dr. Doom...

RedArmy · 20 November, 2018

Outraged!! Turning from gammon to winegum

Racist scum. Should be banned.

Wes Tender · 20 November, 2018

Especially for the poor - it must be so exciting seeing how much food they have to get from a food bank weekly, and really exciting that it will be far, far more when we exit the EU.

EXITING. not exciting. Do please pay attention

badgerx16 · 20 November, 2018

I love this line in the BBC story "What to look for in Brexit declaration?";

"Language is being sought to ensure everyone can claim they got what they wanted."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46278361

hypochondriac · 20 November, 2018

I love this line in the BBC story "What to look for in Brexit declaration?";

"Language is being sought to ensure everyone can claim they got what they wanted."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46278361

It's all a giant con. May has failed horrifically and so we must stay in.

shurlock · 20 November, 2018

It's all a giant con. May has failed horrifically and so we must stay in.

Don’t worry. Your boys are hatching something.

badgerx16 · 20 November, 2018

Don’t worry. Your boys are hatching something.

They look a real band of Happy Campers.

doddisalegend · 20 November, 2018

Don’t worry. Your boys are hatching something.

**** me what a bunch of old ****s most of them will be dead by the time we leave the EU..

Lord Duckhunter · 20 November, 2018

Senior DUP source tonight ; “if the Conservative party want to stay in power, then they need us. Either the PM changes course or the Conservative party change the PM. We don’t particularly care which option they choose.”

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Wes Tender · 20 November, 2018

Quite so. The misery that either version of Brexit will visit on people just hanging on will be horrific. Yet al-Tenderi and his explosive ilk only really get upset when legitimate comparisons are made between him and other death cultists, who also revel in wrecking others' lives on the altar of some version of a fantasised 'sunlit uplands'.

You're not having a good time of it, are you, Dr Doom? First you completely misunderstand what Rees-Mogg says about us enjoying the benefits of Brexit over the next 50 years, and then you get in a huff about nothing because you had a dyslexic misreading of "exiting" as "exciting."

And who is this "al-Tenderi and his explosive ilk"? Is it the name of your fourth form punk rock group?

shurlock · 20 November, 2018

You're not having a good time of it, are you, Dr Doom? First you completely misunderstand what Rees-Mogg says about us enjoying the benefits of Brexit over the next 50 years, and then you get in a huff about nothing because you had a dyslexic misreading of "exiting" as "exciting."

And who is this "al-Tenderi and his explosive ilk"? Is it the name of your fourth form punk rock group?

Al-Tenderi

badgerx16 · 20 November, 2018

**** me what a bunch of old ****s most of them will be dead by the time we leave the EU..

What makes you think they are all actually extant now ? The 2 either side of the undead creature in the middle certainly look suspiciously as if they have been propped up.

shurlock · 20 November, 2018

Les: if you needed a stunt double to jump from a cliff edge and fly to the sunny uplands, which of the ERG mob most resembles you?

Same question to LD and JJ.

buctootim · 20 November, 2018

**** me what a bunch of old ****s most of them will be dead by the time we leave the EU..

Second left died before the meeting by the looks

badgerx16 · 20 November, 2018

Thanks for posting that link, which saves me from doing it. As a result, if you take the same interpretation of it that Verbal D does, then you prove yourself also to be either incapable of understanding simple English, or of being a bit too ready to misunderstand what you heard because it suits your Remoaner toady agenda.

He clearly states that "The overwhelming opportunity of Brexit will be over the next 50 years"

Come on Wes, what about the rest of it ?

"This will be a choice for the electorate, The electorate ultimately will be the judge of this, and will decide whether Brexit has been a success or failure."

[ In which case, how and when would this happen ? What if it does, indeed, turn out to be a failure ? ]

"....I may not know for years to come whether it, ( the economy ), will be better or worse..."

"We will know at some point, but it's a matter of timescale..."

"We won't know the full economic consequences for a very long time"

and finally

"The overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years"

He doesn't sound completely convinced that this is going to work.

Guided Missile · 20 November, 2018

As I have posted before, it is always best to be the first in the lifeboat. Watch the EU Titanic, as it begins to sink:

The Franco/German deal is starting to unravel, as reported here.

Macron and Merkel remain miles apart over any EU ‘grand bargain’

No one now talks of a grand bargain. Instead, Berlin and Paris are inching towards striking the teensiest, tiniest of bargains, painfully developing a plan that will still leave the euro vulnerable to shocks, political shifts and capricious interference by non-euro states. Unfortunately, the euro does not have the luxury of time. The region’s economy already appears to be slowing after briefly entering recovery, the European Central Bank is currently determined to scale down its stimulus by the end of the year and governments soon have to start discussing the appointment of a new ECB president, which is bound to bring out all the old rancour.

...and the return of a Greek tragedy and an Italian opera, here:

Greek crisis returns as Italian banks enter the danger zone

Greece’s financial crisis has come back to the boil as Athens draws up emergency plans to stabilize the banking system, raising concerns that the country may ultimately need a fourth EU rescue to escape its depression trap. Global risk aversion and contagion from Italy’s parallel banking drama has lifted a lid on the festering legacy of bad debts, and exposed the implausible methods employed by Greek regulators and the EU-led troika to camouflage the problem.
Greek bank shares slumped a further 6pc on Tuesday after five days of falls. They are now down by 60pc since May, chiefly on fears of drastic state intervention to shore up thinning capital buffers. The Athens bourse has lost a third of its value this year. The sell-off came as risk spreads on Italian 10-year bonds spiked to a four-year high of 335 basis points, entering the danger zone for Italian banks that collectively hold €380bn of the country’s sovereign debt. Brussels is expected to launch its excessive deficit procedure against Italy on Wednesday for violation of the debt ceiling rules of the Fiscal Compact, doubling down on a fateful clash with the insurgent Lega-Five Star government in Rome.

Schadenfreude? I should say so...

...oh and I told you so.

Sheaf Saint · 20 November, 2018

Steve Baker on Twitter tonight promoting this 'outstanding' piece of work by Peter Lilley - the same Peter Lilley who was utterly destroyed on R4 this morning when he came up against someone with actual facts.

https://globalbritain.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Global_Britain_Fact_not_Friction.pdf

I'm sure it's just pure coincidence that this group - Global Britain - just happens to be based at Tufton Street alongside all the other fanatical brexiteer 'think tanks'.

I particularly liked this bit from the last page...

Although the information compiled in our research is produced to the best of our ability, its accuracy is not guaranteed. Any persons using Global Britain’s research or communication material does so solely at their own risk.

buctootim · 20 November, 2018

Who were two of the three worst performers in EU wide bank stress tests? Barclays and Lloyds. Everything you say is either flat wrong or dishonest. Consistency is your only virtue.

https://www.eba.europa.eu/documents/10180/2419200/2018-EU-wide-stress-test-Results.pdf

Edited 20 November, 2018 by buctootim

shurlock · 20 November, 2018

Steve Baker on Twitter tonight promoting this 'outstanding' piece of work by Peter Lilley - the same Peter Lilley who was utterly destroyed on R4 this morning when he came up against someone with actual facts.

https://globalbritain.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Global_Britain_Fact_not_Friction.pdf

I'm sure it's just pure coincidence that this group - Global Britain - just happens to be based at Tufton Street alongside all the other fanatical brexiteer 'think tanks'.

I particularly liked this bit from the last page...

Isn’t Tufton Street where the IEA is based which is currently being investigated by the Charity Commission because of concerns about its political independence; yet we have halfwits on this thread dragging the IFS and the LSE CEP (among others) through the mud despite having credentials which are beyond reproach.

Wes Tender · 21 November, 2018

Come on Wes, what about the rest of it ?

"This will be a choice for the electorate, The electorate ultimately will be the judge of this, and will decide whether Brexit has been a success or failure."
[ In which case, how and when would this happen ? What if it does, indeed, turn out to be a failure ? ]

"....I may not know for years to come whether it, ( the economy ), will be better or worse..."
"We will know at some point, but it's a matter of timescale..."
"We won't know the full economic consequences for a very long time"
and finally
"The overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years"

He doesn't sound completely convinced that this is going to work.

He was asked how long it would be before it was clear economically what the effects of Brexit would be. He answered honestly that he didn't know. But then again, nobody knows, do they? The type of deal we achieve, or whether we get no deal affects the economy, and we don't know that yet, so why would anybody commit to a prediction without knowing the facts?

But do you accept that his statement that the overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years, does NOT mean that it will take 50 years to find out? I credit you with more intelligence than Verbal D on this, so I expect that you will agree.

Sheaf Saint · 21 November, 2018

Isn’t Tufton Street where the IEA is based which is currently being investigated by the Charity Commission because of concerns about its political independence; yet we have halfwits on this thread dragging the IFS and the LSE CEP (among others) through the mud despite having credentials which are beyond reproach.

The IEA, the Adam Smith Institute, the Global Warming Policy Foundation, the Taxpayers Alliance, and Leave.EU. In fact, just about every right wing lobbying group you can think of operates from there.

badgerx16 · 21 November, 2018

He was asked how long it would be before it was clear economically what the effects of Brexit would be. He answered honestly that he didn't know. But then again, nobody knows, do they? The type of deal we achieve, or whether we get no deal affects the economy, and we don't know that yet, so why would anybody commit to a prediction without knowing the facts?

But do you accept that his statement that the overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years, does NOT mean that it will take 50 years to find out? I credit you with more intelligence than Verbal D on this, so I expect that you will agree.

He is one of the main people telling us that this is a great opportunity for the country, yet when pressed he, at best, hedges his bets, and at worst, implies that things may well turn out worse. Nobody in the Leave campaign implied that it may well be decades before we even knew the true impact of Brexit. Almost everybody that voted to leave will be dead in 50 years, I reckon that most of them expected to see a tangible benefit much, much, earlier.

What I want to know is what his true motive is, what he thinks he personally is going to gain from Brexit.

Edited 21 November, 2018 by badgerx16

CB Fry · 21 November, 2018

He was asked how long it would be before it was clear economically what the effects of Brexit would be. He answered honestly that he didn't know. But then again, nobody knows, do they? The type of deal we achieve, or whether we get no deal affects the economy, and we don't know that yet, so why would anybody commit to a prediction without knowing the facts?

But do you accept that his statement that the overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years, does NOT mean that it will take 50 years to find out? I credit you with more intelligence than Verbal D on this, so I expect that you will agree.

First, he would never have been that equivocal during the referendum campaign.

Second, it won't take Jacob fifty years to personally benefit.

That's the point.

shurlock · 21 November, 2018

The IEA, the Adam Smith Institute, the Global Warming Policy Foundation, the Taxpayers Alliance, and Leave.EU. In fact, just about every right wing lobbying group you can think of operates from there.

Don’t forget Les fav Civitas.

Wes Tender · 21 November, 2018

First, he would never have been that equivocal during the referendum campaign.

Second, it won't take Jacob fifty years to personally benefit.

That's the point.

J R-M wasn't prominent during the election campaign, so you don't know that. However, he has gained a reputation for being honest in his answers instead of indulging in the usual politicians' fudging. But of course he would have been even less able to have given an answer about that when the result of the referendum hadn't even been concluded, wouldn't he? Most of the establishment media weren't interested in asking prominent leave supporters about the economic benefits of our departure, as they didn't want to have the electorate hear any positivity about our future prospects outside of the EU. As you know, their agenda was only to tell everybody what a disaster it would prove to be. I don't recall any "project benefit", only "project fear". So your point is actually pointless.

As for your second point, what has that got to do with anything? Even if as you imply that J R-M would benefit personally from being outside of the EU, equally many of the remain side only want to remain in the EU because they personally benefit from that.

shurlock · 21 November, 2018

J R-M wasn't prominent during the election campaign, so you don't know that. However, he has gained a reputation for being honest in his answers instead of indulging in the usual politicians' fudging. But of course he would have been even less able to have given an answer about that when the result of the referendum hadn't even been concluded, wouldn't he? Most of the establishment media weren't interested in asking prominent leave supporters about the economic benefits of our departure, as they didn't want to have the electorate hear any positivity about our future prospects outside of the EU. As you know, their agenda was only to tell everybody what a disaster it would prove to be. I don't recall any "project benefit", only "project fear". So your point is actually pointless.

As for your second point, what has that got to do with anything? Even if as you imply that J R-M would benefit personally from being outside of the EU, equally many of the remain side only want to remain in the EU because they personally benefit from that.

The BBC asked plenty of leave supporters about the economic benefits of Brexit -far more than is representative of expert or economist opinion on the matter. Part of the BBC’s perverse interpretation of what it means to be balanced.

Wes Tender · 21 November, 2018

He is one of the main people telling us that this is a great opportunity for the country, yet when pressed he, at best, hedges his bets, and at worst, implies that things may well turn out worse. Nobody in the Leave campaign implied that it may well be decades before we even knew the true impact of Brexit. Almost everybody that voted to leave will be dead in 50 years, I reckon that most of them expected to see a tangible benefit much, much, earlier.
What I want to know is what his true motive is, what he thinks he personally is going to gain from Brexit.

It seems that I was mistaken about your intelligence, as you persist in implying this fiction that J R-M said that it would take 50 years before we could assess the benefits of leaving. I have to restate that he said the the main opportunities of Brexit will be felt over the next fifty years. As for this ridiculous point about how many will be alive in 50 years, I have lived through the joining of the Common Market as a young man until now and can see that our prosperity since joining owed more to national politics than it did to our membership of the EEC/EU. I expect that most of those just reaching voting age now will look at our departure from the ailing EU as the point at which we began to really thrive as an independent sovereign nation.

You are entitled to believe that J R-M is only it for his own personal gain, but there is no evidence of that at all. He was wealthy enough before entering politics and almost certainly could earn far more by concentrating solely on business matters. Often enough he promotes the benefits accruing to the poorest in our society from leaving the EU customs union and single market, because food, clothing and shoes which account for the highest percentage of their expenditure will be cheaper. If you think that he is not sincere, then that is up to you. Although many are career politicians in it for their own ends, I don't think that he is one of them.

Wes Tender · 21 November, 2018

The BBC asked plenty of leave supporters about the economic benefits of Brexit -far more than is representative of expert or economist opinion on the matter. Part of the BBC’s perverse interpretation of what it means to be balanced.

:lol:

Wes Tender · 21 November, 2018

Steve Baker on Twitter tonight promoting this 'outstanding' piece of work by Peter Lilley - the same Peter Lilley who was utterly destroyed on R4 this morning when he came up against someone with actual facts.

Utterly destroyed? Here is the interview. I hear him giving as good as he got. Actual facts used against him?

It is the usual situation from the biased BBC, both the interviewer and a guest speaker both remoaners to the core, much like QT, usually four against one.

sandwichsaint · 21 November, 2018

It seems that I was mistaken about your intelligence, as you persist in implying this fiction that J R-M said that it would take 50 years before we could assess the benefits of leaving. I have to restate that he said the the main opportunities of Brexit will be felt over the next fifty years. As for this ridiculous point about how many will be alive in 50 years, I have lived through the joining of the Common Market as a young man until now and can see that our prosperity since joining owed more to national politics than it did to our membership of the EEC/EU. I expect that most of those just reaching voting age now will look at our departure from the ailing EU as the point at which we began to really thrive as an independent sovereign nation.

You are entitled to believe that J R-M is only it for his own personal gain, but there is no evidence of that at all. He was wealthy enough before entering politics and almost certainly could earn far more by concentrating solely on business matters. Often enough he promotes the benefits accruing to the poorest in our society from leaving the EU customs union and single market, because food, clothing and shoes which account for the highest percentage of their expenditure will be cheaper. If you think that he is not sincere, then that is up to you. Although many are career politicians in it for their own ends, I don't think that he is one of them.

Not entirely sure cheaper clothing, cheaper food and cheaper shoes will make up for poorer public services, lower wages/employment protection, reduced employment opportunities, possibly increased pollution and lower environmental standards? Guess we are going to find out over the next 50 years.

badgerx16 · 21 November, 2018

It seems that I was mistaken about your intelligence, as you persist in implying this fiction that J R-M said that it would take 50 years before we could assess the benefits of leaving. I have to restate that he said the the main opportunities of Brexit will be felt over the next fifty years. As for this ridiculous point about how many will be alive in 50 years, I have lived through the joining of the Common Market as a young man until now and can see that our prosperity since joining owed more to national politics than it did to our membership of the EEC/EU. I expect that most of those just reaching voting age now will look at our departure from the ailing EU as the point at which we began to really thrive as an independent sovereign nation.
.

Go back and read what I posted, and quoted ( from JRM himself " We won't know the full economic consequences for a very long time". "....whether it will be better or worse". ). Don't insult my intelligence, I think that so far I've been reasonably courteous towards you. Also, most of those who had just passed voting age at the point of the referendum voted to remain, and I suggest that those who have reached it since would most likely hold the same opinion.

Lord Duckhunter · 21 November, 2018

One piece of project fear put to bed. From the EU themselves, planes will be able to fly in the event of “no deal”.

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