Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Verbal]

What would stop the Tories self-destructing would be to ditch May, ditch Chequers and negotiate a proper Brexit that satisfies the majority of the electorate who voted to leave the EU. If they don't then a decade in the political wilderness awaits.

 

Kaboom!

[hypochondriac]

Personally I think a lot of this theatre has been cooked up to prevent us leaving the EU. May and the people backing her deal know it won't pass Parliament. The EU will then make some sympathetic noises and offer some incentives for staying in. Imo that's been the plan for a while. What else were the likes of Blair talking to them about?

[Wes Tender]

How about 'winegum'? Better than a C+++ anyhow

 

How old are you, Timmy? You're giving clues about you mental age, but how about your physical age?

[Wes Tender]

As an economist from Kings wrote a while ago, putting +++ on the end of a mark is just a way of making the credulous feel better about a crappy score. Economically the C+++ of Canada - even if had been offered under the 'cake and eat it' option - would never be as good as the B score of the EEA or the A of being an EU member.

 

So Canada+++ wasn't offered as an option. Quel surprise. Let's rig a poll by not including the option that most would vote for. What a load of thickos the electorate must be, not voting to remain in the "A" option, eh, Timmy?

[buctootim]

So Canada+++ wasn't offered as an option. Quel surprise. Let's rig a poll by not including the option that most would vote for. What a load of thickos the electorate must be, not voting to remain in the "A" option, eh, Timmy?

 

A deal Tusk called Canada +++ was offered but what it would have contained was never defined because May didnt take it up. Still I guess you, as with Brexit, would have been happy to jump right in but whine when later the Brexit or Canada +++ you had been imagining wasnt the same as what other people were thinking.

[shurlock]

Lil Les loves his +++.

[buctootim]

He's a plus size guy

[Lord Duckhunter]

Some people just don’t know when their times up.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[whelk]

Some people just don’t know when their times up.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

She looks quite fit there

[Wes Tender]

A deal Tusk called Canada +++ was offered but what it would have contained was never defined because May didnt take it up. Still I guess you, as with Brexit, would have been happy to jump right in but whine when later the Brexit or Canada +++ you had been imagining wasnt the same as what other people were thinking.

 

It would have to be really bad to be worse than Chequers. And like the Chequers deal, if it wasn't what we wanted and the EU weren't prepared to make it what we wanted, we should leave under WTO terms. I wouldn't be whining about that

[shurlock]

It would have to be really bad to be worse than Chequers. And like the Chequers deal, if it wasn't what we wanted and the EU weren't prepared to make it what we wanted, we should leave under WTO terms. I wouldn't be whining about that

 

Les how much do you know about WTO terms? You spout it like some magic mantra.

[Wes Tender]

Les how much do you know about WTO terms? You spout it like some magic mantra.

 

I've read up on it since we voted to leave. I don't dispute that a good FTA would be better than WTO terms, but as I said, Chequers is not that deal. I presume that you have read up on the Chequers deal and realise how bad that is?

[buctootim]

I've read up on it since we voted to leave. I don't dispute that a good FTA would be better than WTO terms, but as I said, Chequers is not that deal. I presume that you have read up on the Chequers deal and realise how bad that is?

 

What does your post EU, WTO UK look like Wes? Serious question of fundamentals. What would the hit to GDP be? How long would it take us to replicate the 28 FTAs the EU has and we benefit from? Do you think we would get the same terms negotiating as one state instead of 28. Would we really restrict overall migration or simply bring in from other sources? Would the nature of that immigration really be skills based (given its already easy to bring in specialist skills) or would it simply be replacing the Polish window cleaner with a Bangladeshi one?

 

Genuinely I can see the disadvantages of leaving but dont believe the benefits would materialise.

Edited 19 November, 2018 by buctootim

[Verbal]

I've read up on it since we voted to leave. I don't dispute that a good FTA would be better than WTO terms, but as I said, Chequers is not that deal. I presume that you have read up on the Chequers deal and realise how bad that is?

 

Then you haven't read nearly enough. Neither Chequers nor the actual withdrawal agreement can ever be 'that deal' because neither is an FTA. That comes next - assuming the WA ever gets through parliament - and would take the next four to ten years to negotiate. Logically, you should wait and see, but your cult membership prevents you applying logic.

[Wes Tender]

What does your post EU, WTO UK look like Wes? Serious question of fundamentals. What would the hit to GDP be? How long would it take us to replicate the 28 FTAs the EU has and we benefit from? Do you think we would get the same terms negotiating as one state instead of 28. Would we really restrict overall migration or simply bring in from other sources? Would the nature of that immigration really be skills based (given its already easy to bring in specialist skills) or would it simply be replacing the Polish window cleaner with a Bangladeshi one?

 

Genuinely I can see the disadvantages of leaving but dont believe the benefits would materialise.

 

https://briefingsforbrexit.com/pulling-down-the-barriers-to-world-trade/

 

Feel free to tell me where you disagree with all of this, but take it up with them. For myself, I really don't give a fig what yours, Verbal's or Shurlock's predictions of what the consequences would be. I have made my position clear. A decent FTA deal like Canada+++ or WTO terms if one is not available. My vote for Brexit was largely based on sovereignty grounds, not economic. I appreciate that you Remoaners are blinkered towards the economy, but that is largely the reason why your lot lost the referendum vote.

[buctootim]

My vote for Brexit was largely based on sovereignty grounds, not economic. I appreciate that you Remoaners are blinkered towards the economy, but that is largely the reason why your lot lost the referendum vote.

 

Britain, the EU and the Sovereignty Myth

https://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/default/files/publications/research/2016-05-09-britain-eu-sovereignty-myth-niblett.pdf

https://uktradeforum.net/2018/09/26/future-uk-trade-deals-and-the-question-of-sovereignty/

[Verbal]

https://briefingsforbrexit.com/pulling-down-the-barriers-to-world-trade/

 

Feel free to tell me where you disagree with all of this, but take it up with them. For myself, I really don't give a fig what yours, Verbal's or Shurlock's predictions of what the consequences would be. I have made my position clear. A decent FTA deal like Canada+++ or WTO terms if one is not available. My vote for Brexit was largely based on sovereignty grounds, not economic. I appreciate that you Remoaners are blinkered towards the economy, but that is largely the reason why your lot lost the referendum vote.

 

1. "Canada+++" is not a 'decent deal'. It's a completely made up, three-unicorn deal. (Assume each '+' = 1 x unicorn.) It's not on offer and never was.

 

2. The Brexit you voted for - but which you've now admitted you didn't do enough reading about (and still haven't) - will entail a severe loss of both sovereignty and economic well-being. The loss of sovereignty in the short term is in the unprecedented loss of participation in the EU decision-making process; the loss in the long term will be in the corrosive effects of FDAs, particularly with large, much more powerful countries, who will demand binding arbitration in FDA courts weighted in their favour, and, most of all, in the removal of non-tariff barriers giving foreign private health corporations unlimited access, principally, to the national health service.

 

3. Working on Ress-Mogg's estimate of 50 years before the economic damage of Brexit is repaired, all of the above means, in practice, that while you can airily dismiss 'the economy' as not worthy of your attention, hundreds of thousands of people in this country will lose their livelihoods. Well done you!

 

In view of all this, the murmurs I'm hearing from within the Labour party is of a need to plug the enormous hole being ripped out of the economy - and one proposal is to have a tax raid on private pension pots. That's one policy I can get completely behind. Let the people who'll have caused such misery - and it IS mostly middle class, comfortable, unchallenged pensioners - foot the bill. I'm sure you'll agree you should be responsible for your actions, right?

[Wes Tender]

1. "Canada+++" is not a 'decent deal'. It's a completely made up, three-unicorn deal. (Assume each '+' = 1 x unicorn.) It's not on offer and never was.

 

2. The Brexit you voted for - but which you've now admitted you didn't do enough reading about (and still haven't) - will entail a severe loss of both sovereignty and economic well-being. The loss of sovereignty in the short term is in the unprecedented loss of participation in the EU decision-making process; the loss in the long term will be in the corrosive effects of FDAs, particularly with large, much more powerful countries, who will demand binding arbitration in FDA courts weighted in their favour, and, most of all, in the removal of non-tariff barriers giving foreign private health corporations unlimited access, principally, to the national health service.

 

3. Working on Ress-Mogg's estimate of 50 years before the economic damage of Brexit is repaired, all of the above means, in practice, that while you can airily dismiss 'the economy' as not worthy of your attention, hundreds of thousands of people in this country will lose their livelihoods. Well done you!

 

In view of all this, the murmurs I'm hearing from within the Labour party is of a need to plug the enormous hole being ripped out of the economy - and one proposal is to have a tax raid on private pension pots. That's one policy I can get completely behind. Let the people who'll have caused such misery - and it IS mostly middle class, comfortable, unchallenged pensioners - foot the bill. I'm sure you'll agree you should be responsible for your actions, right?

 

What a load of cobblers. I really can't be arsed to respond to it all. You might have time to indulge yourself, but I haven't. I'm perfectly content with the consequences of leaving the EU and consider that being out of the EU will be worth it, but if you aren't then tough titties. Suck it up loser.

[Cabbage_Face]

In view of all this, the murmurs I'm hearing from within the Labour party is of a need to plug the enormous hole being ripped out of the economy - and one proposal is to have a tax raid on private pension pots. That's one policy I can get completely behind. Let the people who'll have caused such misery - and it IS mostly middle class, comfortable, unchallenged pensioners - foot the bill. I'm sure you'll agree you should be responsible for your actions, right?

 

Is this the same Labour party who have this magic money tree to buy back all private utilities and transport companies? I wouldn't listen to their grasp on economics.

[shurlock]

What a load of cobblers. I really can't be arsed to respond to it all. You might have time to indulge yourself, but I haven't. I'm perfectly content with the consequences of leaving the EU and consider that being out of the EU will be worth it, but if you aren't then tough titties. Suck it up loser.

 

Les in incapable of responding shocker

[Cabbage_Face]

Les in incapable of responding shocker

 

 

Utter bants response from Wesley Tender

[doddisalegend]

Danny Dyer decides to have a say ?

 

https://news.sky.com/story/danny-dyer-defends-theresa-may-with-furious-attack-on-boris-johnson-and-nigel-farage-11557431

[shurlock]

Utter bants response from Wesley Tender

 

I wonder if he’s Mosin in disguise. When Mosin digs himself into a hole over JWP, he also claims he “can’t be arsed” before doing a runner. Les behaviour is disturbingly similar.

Edited 19 November, 2018 by shurlock

[benjii]

Look at that barnet! Man's a fackin maaag. Why shouldn't I go loot and riot when he's got that on his boat? Faaackiiin maaaaags.

[buctootim]

Is this the same Labour party who have this magic money tree to buy back all private utilities and transport companies? I wouldn't listen to their grasp on economics.

 

tbf they say the cost will be met from the profits. Given that the Government can borrow money at less than 1% and Centrica shares (British Gas) for example are paying a dividend of c6% they could buy it and make a profit on holding the shares.

[doddisalegend]

Look at that barnet! Man's a fackin maaag. Why shouldn't I go loot and riot when he's got that on his boat? Faaackiiin maaaaags.

 

 

Nice summary of Danny's thoughts on the matter ?

[saint1977]

What a load of cobblers. I really can't be arsed to respond to it all. You might have time to indulge yourself, but I haven't. I'm perfectly content with the consequences of leaving the EU and consider that being out of the EU will be worth it, but if you aren't then tough titties. Suck it up loser.

 

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/brexit-is-now-such-a-headache-that-the-uk-is-uninvestable-according-to-one-of-wall-streets-best-respected-research-houses/ar-BBPNPNy?ocid=mailsignout

 

Which would be all of us sucking it up, including your kids and grandchildren. The economy was going quite well, defecit right down, and that's all of at risk because of a nationalist spasm in the Tory and Labour parties.

 

Congratulations Wes, what a class act you and your fellow Brexiteers are.

[Cabbage_Face]

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/brexit-is-now-such-a-headache-that-the-uk-is-uninvestable-according-to-one-of-wall-streets-best-respected-research-houses/ar-BBPNPNy?ocid=mailsignout

 

Which would be all of us sucking it up, including your kids and grandchildren. The economy was going quite well, defecit right down, and that's all of at risk because of a nationalist spasm in the Tory and Labour parties.

 

Congratulations Wes, what a class act you and your fellow Brexiteers are.

 

Huh, that article states due to uncertainty of the "deal" they won't invest, not because we are leaving the EU. Thats the worst thing is "uncertainty". As a country, rightly or wrongly, we voted to leave the EU and T.May has agreed some sort of deal to leave, just get it done.

[hypochondriac]

It's interesting that the only people slightly happy about this deal is big business who rather than saying what a great deal it is, they are just saying they want some certainty. Hardly a ringing endorsement is it.

[Cabbage_Face]

It's interesting that the only people slightly happy about this deal is big business who rather than saying what a great deal it is, they are just saying they want some certainty. Hardly a ringing endorsement is it.

 

Not many MP's will like it, they are all in it for themselves.

[saint1977]

It's interesting that the only people slightly happy about this deal is big business who rather than saying what a great deal it is, they are just saying they want some certainty. Hardly a ringing endorsement is it.

 

No-one is going to be ecstatic about what is on offer but it's a bit like saying 'do you want Saints to be in the Championship, League Two or out of the League in 5-15 years time'. There isn't a PL option there - well apart from something that politically can't be undone - so her deal is probably the least damaging option in town.

 

Whether some of the swivel-eyed loons in Westminster see that - or those who seriously want Corbyn to have a shot at winning a GE (yuck) - is another matter of course.

[hypochondriac]

Not many MP's will like it, they are all in it for themselves.

It's worth taking a note of the tories falling into line and talking up this deal. If they are willing to sell their country down the river to stay in favour with their party then they don't deserve any sort of power.

[Cabbage_Face]

It's worth taking a note of the tories falling into line and talking up this deal. If they are willing to sell their country down the river to stay in favour with their party then they don't deserve any sort of power.

 

They are being sensible, this deal has 50% chance of getting past parliament. Boris and his morons No Deal has -100% chance.

[hypochondriac]

They are being sensible, this deal has 50% chance of getting past parliament. Boris and his morons No Deal has -100% chance.

The point is if you are happy to push this deal which surrenders our sovereignty in such an egregious manner then I don't want you anywhere near the levers of power.

[Cabbage_Face]

The point is if you are happy to push this deal which surrenders our sovereignty in such an egregious manner then I don't want you anywhere near the levers of power.

 

When did we last have "Sovereignty"?

[buctootim]

The point is if you are happy to push this deal which surrenders our sovereignty in such an egregious manner then I don't want you anywhere near the levers of power.

 

You're right. Giving up our voting rights in the EU is a massive surrender of sovereignty, and for what?

[buctootim]

When did we last have "Sovereignty"?

1914

[hypochondriac]

When did we last have "Sovereignty"?

That was the point of voting for brexit for many people. So that our laws are decided in the UK and so that laws can be changed once a government has been removed if they are unpopular.

[hypochondriac]

You're right. Giving up our voting rights in the EU is a massive surrender of sovereignty, and for what?

Sounds like we agree. Brexit is quite simple really, you're either in or you're out and this "deal" keeps us in but with no influence in the future. It's idiotic and anyone voting for it should be removed at the earliest opportunity.

[Cabbage_Face]

Norway seem to be doing ok.

[hypochondriac]

Norway seem to be doing ok.

This isn't a Norway style deal is it.

[Cabbage_Face]

This isn't a Norway style deal is it.

 

I'm out then.

[benjii]

tbf they say the cost will be met from the profits. Given that the Government can borrow money at less than 1% and Centrica shares (British Gas) for example are paying a dividend of c6% they could buy it and make a profit on holding the shares.

 

Tad simplistic.

[buctootim]

Tad simplistic.

 

Sure. There would be wider repercussions so I'm not saying its a good policy - but its also not true to say its 'magic money tree' stuff.

[Cabbage_Face]

Sure. There would be wider repercussions so I'm not saying its a good policy - but its also not true to say its 'magic money tree' stuff.

 

Magic money tree maybe a childish term. But honestly all the things they promise, no way we can afford it all. Both parties are a mess, sadly no politician is in it for the people. All personal gain.

[Wes Tender]

Les in incapable of responding shocker

 

When Verbal D fabricates something completely false that he claims was said by J R-M, then there really is no point in continuing to respond to him.

[Wes Tender]

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/brexit-is-now-such-a-headache-that-the-uk-is-uninvestable-according-to-one-of-wall-streets-best-respected-research-houses/ar-BBPNPNy?ocid=mailsignout

 

Which would be all of us sucking it up, including your kids and grandchildren. The economy was going quite well, defecit right down, and that's all of at risk because of a nationalist spasm in the Tory and Labour parties.

 

Congratulations Wes, what a class act you and your fellow Brexiteers are.

 

What a class act over half of your fellow citizens are, you mean. And don't come this pathetic "its ruining the futures of our children and grandchildren", as if we don't care about them too. If the Southern European countries voted to leave because they have massively high youth unemployment, would they blame their governments for ruining their children's futures by voting to leave? Our future prosperity will improve greatly when we cut ourselves free from the sclerotic, bureaucratic, declining, protectionist racket that is the EU and begin trading as an independent sovereign nation with the growing economies of the rest of the world.

[buctootim]

When Verbal D fabricates something completely false that he claims was said by J R-M, then there really is no point in continuing to respond to him.

 

[Wes Tender]

 

Thanks for posting that link, which saves me from doing it. As a result, if you take the same interpretation of it that Verbal D does, then you prove yourself also to be either incapable of understanding simple English, or of being a bit too ready to misunderstand what you heard because it suits your Remoaner toady agenda.

 

He clearly states that "The overwhelming opportunity of Brexit will be over the next 50 years"

 

Had the snake Heath said that "the overwhelming opportunity of joining the Common Market would be over the next 50 years", would you really have interpreted it to mean that we would only be starting to experience it in the coming few years so long after joining?

[shurlock]

How the Brexiteers broke history: Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees-Mogg and their allies propagate a confused nostalgic fantasy of “global Britain”, wartime heroism and an English struggle for liberty.

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/11/how-brexiteers-broke-history

 

F**k history.

Edited 19 November, 2018 by shurlock