Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I guess one option if May’s deal doesn’t get through would be to amend the deal and go back to Europe with a second draft saying it’s this or we leave with no deal. Not sure there is anything that the EU would agree with that would come close to getting through parliament though.

 

But there is no deal to be had - there never has been - it's a deal that fits in with the framework of not.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

The country rejected one of those already, but the losers wouldn’t accept the result. What makes you think they will next time?

 

 

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It's irrelevant - the underlying details have changed. The choice is leave hard, leave soft, don't leave. It's all well and good saying the upfront vote is the one that should be acted on, but that was without any knowledge of the "deals" that were on the table.

[badgerx16]

The idea of an EU force is laughable

Only the French and the U.K. have the equipment, expertise and will to lead it.

 

Look at the last time that happened without the USA!

Would that be the isolationist, self-interested USA that took 3 years in WW1 and over 2 years in WW2 before deciding to get involved ? ( And remember, the 2nd time, they only woke up after the Japanese had spanked their arses, and if Hitler hadn't been stupid enough to actually declare war on the US they may have restricted themselves to convoy escorts in the Atlantic whilst concentrating on the Pacific theatre. ).

[ashnats]

Sorry to interrupt this debate - but is the answer not bleeding obvious now.

 

There are 3 options:

- May's plan (which works within the EU framework)

- Hard Brexit

- No Brexit

 

Considering that the first two won't get through parliament irrespective of the party or leader that puts it's forward, surely all that can happen now is a vote of the 3 options to the people?

 

Can’t do three options, the two leave options would split the Brexiteers. T may’s deal should go to parliament. , then it’s a choice of parliaments deal (either t may or no deal) vs remain. It’s not a rerun because now we know what leave means and can actually compare the numbers and impacts logically.

[Cabbage_Face]

I will lol if there a people’s vote and it still goes “leave” [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

 

 

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[shurlock]

I will lol if there a people’s vote and it still goes “leave” [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

 

 

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Sh*ts and g*ggles.

[Jonnyboy]

Good point. We already have a defence force, why then do you think we would require an EU army then do you think?

 

Because the UK and US, having been driven to nationalism (partly by Russian propaganda), seem less and less willing to be a part of Nato. Putin is loving it.

[Wes Tender]

Liam Fox: ' ......ultimately I hope that across parliament we will recognise that a deal is better than no deal'.

 

I had to read that twice just in case

 

You read it twice and still didn't notice the one little word that was missing. The word is "bad". But the context is not that a bad deal is better than no deal, so stop creaming yourself, sonny.

 

It is better to have bread than no bread. But it is better to have no bread rather than stale bread. Do you see the difference?

[shurlock]

You read it twice and still didn't notice the one little word that was missing. The word is "bad". But the context is not that a bad deal is better than no deal, so stop creaming yourself, sonny.

 

It is better to have bread than no bread. But it is better to have no bread rather than stale bread. Do you see the difference?

 

 

Getting hot under the collar that not all swivels share your zeal Les

 

By definition, a deal can be a good or bad deal -its not specified- so no it doesn't support your point.

[Jonnyboy]

You read it twice and still didn't notice the one little word that was missing. The word is "bad". But the context is not that a bad deal is better than no deal, so stop creaming yourself, sonny.

 

It is better to have bread than no bread. But it is better to have no bread rather than stale bread. Do you see the difference?

 

How about having a nice, freshly cooked baguette?

[shurlock]

How about having a nice, freshly cooked baguette?

 

Or a fresh, chewy bagel.

[badgerx16]

You read it twice and still didn't notice the one little word that was missing. The word is "bad".

Wes, sorry, but what Shurlock wrote is exactly what Liam Fox said.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-liam-fox-theresa-may-draft-agreement-eu-withdrawal-cabinet-a8637086.html

[whelk]

These two are cnts. But how is having a fcking meal any sort of news?

 

[whelk]

You read it twice and still didn't notice the one little word that was missing. The word is "bad". But the context is not that a bad deal is better than no deal, so stop creaming yourself, sonny.

 

It is better to have bread than no bread. But it is better to have no bread rather than stale bread. Do you see the difference?

 

Croutons? bread and butter pudding?

[shurlock]

Harry and glenn?

[van Hanegem]

A bit more complicated than that pal. Your mate Trump has called NATO obsolete.

 

Never mind the current US administration has led to uncertainty about its engagement and commitment in the world or that it’s positon on a number of issues is at odds with Europe and the UK or that there are security issues such as migration crisis which are local in nature.

 

Even NATO leaders have called on Europe to grow up and be willing to provide all the capabilities to handle a regional crisis without American engagement if the US does not wish to engage.

 

Hmm, Germany deciding where to deploy "their" troops, not a great idea Shurlock, as if plan B of the nazi's is finally implemented.

But no need to worry, most members of the EU are against a European army and want to decide themselves wether their soldiers have to go somewhere so it won't happen. Just like we won't get a European Minister of Finance or a European tax for every citizen. Macron & Merkel cs. should stop dreaming as it is clear that a supranational union they long for is very far away: fascists in the government in Italy and Austria, Eastern Europeans with bad memories of being ruled by another union in the past, Merkel's party CDU losing ground in Germany, Le Pen leading the polls in France at the moment, the sentiment against the current EU is rapidly rising across almost all of Europe while the economies in most countries are growing. Imagine what will happen when the next financial crisis comes and the unemployment figures start rising again...

[Batman]

Because the UK and US, having been driven to nationalism (partly by Russian propaganda), seem less and less willing to be a part of Nato. Putin is loving it.

 

How much of it’s forces has the US withdrawn from Europe in the last 24 months and expected in the next 24 months?

 

 

You obviously don’t believe trump will win another election, reading other threads so you point holds little/no value

Edited 17 November, 2018 by Batman

[Unbelievable Jeff]

These two are cnts. But how is having a fcking meal any sort of news?

 

 

The strangest thing is, Stanley, Rachel and Jo seem to be very decent people - I wonder why Boris ended up like he did?

[Weston Super Saint]

It's irrelevant - the underlying details have changed. The choice is leave hard, leave soft, don't leave. It's all well and good saying the upfront vote is the one that should be acted on, but that was without any knowledge of the "deals" that were on the table.

 

I'm not sure why you think there is still a choice!

 

Hasn't May made it perfectly clear that there will NOT be another referendum?

 

This is no different from any general election that has ever happened, but we never get a fresh vote after 18 months once we find out that all the promises made during the campaign process turn out to be a load of B.S!

 

I've said it before (right at the beginning of this process) that the only deal will be no deal. There are far too many sticky fingers in the pie for anything else to possibly happen!

[CB Fry]

I'm not sure why you think there is still a choice!

 

Hasn't May made it perfectly clear that there will NOT be another referendum?

 

This is no different from any general election that has ever happened, but we never get a fresh vote after 18 months once we find out that all the promises made during the campaign process turn out to be a load of B.S!

 

I've said it before (right at the beginning of this process) that the only deal will be no deal. There are far too many sticky fingers in the pie for anything else to possibly happen!

Most of the "sticky fingers in the pie" (ie big business) will ensure that the one thing that will definitely not happen is no deal.

[Wes Tender]

Getting hot under the collar that not all swivels share your zeal Les

 

By definition, a deal can be a good or bad deal -its not specified- so no it doesn't support your point.

 

Wriggle, wriggle wriggle. I'm afraid that you're still on the hook. I'm perfectly calm, even sanguine about it. Despite your best remoaner efforts to paint anybody who wants to leave the sclerotic EU as some sort of deranged, thick zealot, I agree with Fox. A deal is better than no deal. Fox didn't need to specify that he meant a good deal. It is only idiots who would think that meant that a bad deal was better than no deal. Did you think that he meant that a bad deal was better than no deal, Shurlock?

 

But then it needs to be a good deal, obviously to get through the Commons. The Chequers fudge is about as far away from a good deal as May and her Rasputin, Oily Robbins, could manage, so its chances of getting through the House are extremely remote, even if May survives that long.

 

Just so that you know, I would prefer a good deal to no deal too. Canada +++ will do just fine. If the EU feel that they can't accept our tech proposals to solve the Irish border, then I will have few qualms about going down the WTO trade route.

[Wes Tender]

These two are cnts. But how is having a fcking meal any sort of news?

 

It's the Daily Mirror. Surely you didn't expect anything better from them?

[Batman]

Would a European Army really be that effective, the French part would just surrender and the Italian part would swap sides. #mess

 

dont forget that spain will allow their forces an afternoon break. Many dont do weekends either.

[Verbal]

Yet again Jihadist HQ at the ERG can't get their act together, even to carry out their own coup. This is after their hilarious failure to agree their own alternative proposals to Chequers. So they can't act upon the thing they can't express. They'd rather just strap a suicide vest on the country's economy and run for their own tax-haven shelters.

[Wes Tender]

Wes, sorry, but what Shurlock wrote is exactly what Liam Fox said.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-liam-fox-theresa-may-draft-agreement-eu-withdrawal-cabinet-a8637086.html

 

No need to apologise, Badger. I didn't dispute that he had said that, did I? As I have explained to the hard of thinking Shurlock, the vast majority of Brexiteers accept that a good free trade deal with the EU is preferable to leaving with no deal. So it is hardly earth shattering news that Fox expressed this opinion. I share it. But having no deal is certainly better than Chequers and that is why it will be rejected by the Commons.

[Wes Tender]

Yet again Jihadist HQ at the ERG can't get their act together, even to carry out their own coup. This is after their hilarious failure to agree their own alternative proposals to Chequers. So they can't act upon the thing they can't express. They'd rather just strap a suicide vest on the country's economy and run for their own tax-haven shelters.

 

Source? Whilst claiming disunity amongst the ERG over what type of Brexit deal to pursue, no doubt you will be happy to summarise the unified plan from HM official Opposition on the subject. What effect on the Country's economy would they have if in Government? And how many wealth creators would be running for the tax havens when Labour intends to tax them until the pips squeak?

[ecuk268]

For a bloke deriding people for being intellectually challenged, you do seem incapable of understand my reply. Personally, I’d lay off the intelligence insults if I was you.

 

 

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I was actually agreeing with you. I should have included the quote that you were quoting.

 

However, for those with no educational qualifications, the vote was 30% to 70% for leave. For degree level or higher it was 68% to 32% for remain.

Edited 17 November, 2018 by ecuk268

[OldNick]

No need to apologise, Badger. I didn't dispute that he had said that, did I? As I have explained to the hard of thinking Shurlock, the vast majority of Brexiteers accept that a good free trade deal with the EU is preferable to leaving with no deal. So it is hardly earth shattering news that Fox expressed this opinion. I share it. But having no deal is certainly better than Chequers and that is why it will be rejected by the Commons.

Hi Wes how can a no deal be better than a deal? Surely the chaos that a no deal will bring could in theory bring the country to its knees.Im in the luxury sector and business is dire as people are sitting on their hands. The same goes for my friends in many other businesses.

The pound will drop massively (that would help me for my exports, but it wont help the general person in the street which is no good) at first exporters will gain but not when they are importing so much raw materials etc to make the products.

Can you imagine the chaos at the ports as border checks come back into play, and then of course we have to try and find new markets for our stuff as quotas and tariffs kick in for exports to Europe.

Im patriotic and a proud Englishman but at the end f the day , waving a flag at the white cliffs of dover really wont bring wealth to our nation

[shurlock]

Wriggle, wriggle wriggle. I'm afraid that you're still on the hook. I'm perfectly calm, even sanguine about it. Despite your best remoaner efforts to paint anybody who wants to leave the sclerotic EU as some sort of deranged, thick zealot, I agree with Fox. A deal is better than no deal. Fox didn't need to specify that he meant a good deal. It is only idiots who would think that meant that a bad deal was better than no deal. Did you think that he meant that a bad deal was better than no deal, Shurlock?

 

But then it needs to be a good deal, obviously to get through the Commons. The Chequers fudge is about as far away from a good deal as May and her Rasputin, Oily Robbins, could manage, so its chances of getting through the House are extremely remote, even if May survives that long.

 

Just so that you know, I would prefer a good deal to no deal too. Canada +++ will do just fine. If the EU feel that they can't accept our tech proposals to solve the Irish border, then I will have few qualms about going down the WTO trade route.

 

This is getting quite painful for you Les.

 

If any kind of deal is better than no deal -and Fox in no way qualified, defined, modified or limited what he meant by deal, then it follows that a bad deal is also better than no deal. A deal is a deal - whether it’s good, bad or any other description under the sun.

 

If you still have questions, my dog is happy to sit down and explain how adjectives work to you.

 

And, of course, the bigger point is that Fox, one of your supposed comrades in arms, is endorsing the same deal that is causing jihadists like you to froth in anger. Watching that nasty little c**t Steve Baker get triggered is almost as amusing as watching you flounder

Edited 17 November, 2018 by shurlock

[shurlock]

Hi Wes how can a no deal be better than a deal? Surely the chaos that a no deal will bring could in theory bring the country to its knees.Im in the luxury sector and business is dire as people are sitting on their hands. The same goes for my friends in many other businesses.

The pound will drop massively (that would help me for my exports, but it wont help the general person in the street which is no good) at first exporters will gain but not when they are importing so much raw materials etc to make the products.

Can you imagine the chaos at the ports as border checks come back into play, and then of course we have to try and find new markets for our stuff as quotas and tariffs kick in for exports to Europe.

Im patriotic and a proud Englishman but at the end f the day , waving a flag at the white cliffs of dover really wont bring wealth to our nation

 

He’s a deluded ideologue - thankfully Parliament won’t let the country crash out on WTO terms.

[Wes Tender]

Hi Wes how can a no deal be better than a deal? Surely the chaos that a no deal will bring could in theory bring the country to its knees.Im in the luxury sector and business is dire as people are sitting on their hands. The same goes for my friends in many other businesses.

The pound will drop massively (that would help me for my exports, but it wont help the general person in the street which is no good) at first exporters will gain but not when they are importing so much raw materials etc to make the products.

Can you imagine the chaos at the ports as border checks come back into play, and then of course we have to try and find new markets for our stuff as quotas and tariffs kick in for exports to Europe.

Im patriotic and a proud Englishman but at the end f the day , waving a flag at the white cliffs of dover really wont bring wealth to our nation

 

Like Shurlock, your opening sentence is missing the vital adjective "bad". Like me, you're a businessman. Do you really mean to tell me that you would rather accept a deal that is bad for your business than to walk away from it? I've already stated that I would prefer a good free trade deal with the EU, but not one where all we achieve is vassal or colony status. I'm afraid that you have been subjected to too much establishment and big business propaganda, whereby every commentator opining on the consequences of us leaving the EU on WTO terms describes it as a cliff edge, crashing out, a disastrous act of self-harm, etc. This is very much the same sort of language used by the same people when we decided not to join the ERM and when Singapore decided to leave the Malaysian Federation in 1965. In the short term there will some disruption, but after that it would prove to be the best thing we have done.

[Plastic]

I agree with Fox. A deal is better than no deal. Fox didn't need to specify that he meant a good deal.

 

 

As Fox is staying, it therefore follows that he believes the deal on the table is good, as do you.

Congratulations. Why do you want May to quit then?

[shurlock]

As Fox is staying, it therefore follows that he believes the deal on the table is good, as do you.

Congratulations. Why do you want May to quit then?

 

Or quite simply Fox knows it’s not a very good/bad deal but ultimately realises, in a rare outbreak of pragmatism, that the alternative is far worse.

[OldNick]

Like Shurlock, your opening sentence is missing the vital adjective "bad". Like me, you're a businessman. Do you really mean to tell me that you would rather accept a deal that is bad for your business than to walk away from it? I've already stated that I would prefer a good free trade deal with the EU, but not one where all we achieve is vassal or colony status. I'm afraid that you have been subjected to too much establishment and big business propaganda, whereby every commentator opining on the consequences of us leaving the EU on WTO terms describes it as a cliff edge, crashing out, a disastrous act of self-harm, etc. This is very much the same sort of language used by the same people when we decided not to join the ERM and when Singapore decided to leave the Malaysian Federation in 1965. In the short term there will some disruption, but after that it would prove to be the best thing we have done.

Sadly im not sure what a good deal can possibly be in this scenario. To me staying in would have been best, as all I can see and feel is damage that has been inflicted and I fail to see any bonus. How can we do better in business terms when we are turning our backs on 400m potential customers.

We have opened the door to the possibility to the most left wing government in the nations history, if you feel that is giving us freedom then Im surprised.

Things were going fine until the vote, yes there are annoyances but dont any authority giving out laws.

Being 'free' is an illusion, you cn park on a road, you need licences for loads of things, and of course a passport to go anywhere abroad.

I respect your views Wes and I hope Im wrong but from where Im sitting it is a disaster

[Millbrook Saint]

Yet again Jihadist HQ at the ERG can't get their act together, even to carry out their own coup. This is after their hilarious failure to agree their own alternative proposals to Chequers. So they can't act upon the thing they can't express. They'd rather just strap a suicide vest on the country's economy and run for their own tax-haven shelters.

 

What a scummy excuse of a human being you are, comparing Jihadists and suicide bombers to people who want their democratic decision respected.

 

Do you forget all the children killed and maimed around the world by people strapping suicide vests to themselves, or the families torn apart in Manchester last year by people strapping suicide vests to themselves.

 

Do you forget all our soldiers who've given their lives fighting these same Jihadists, or families split up by these Jihadists, or children kidnapped by these Jihadists.

 

No of course not because scum of your ilk like nothing better than using these words to try and bully people who don't agree with you in to submission.

 

I can honestly say, I don't now what worthless people like you bring to humanity.

[shurlock]

What a scummy excuse of a human being you are, comparing Jihadists and suicide bombers to people who want their democratic decision respected.

 

Do you forget all the children killed and maimed around the world by people strapping suicide vests to themselves, or the families torn apart in Manchester last year by people strapping suicide vests to themselves.

 

Do you forget all our soldiers who've given their lives fighting these same Jihadists, or families split up by these Jihadists, or children kidnapped by these Jihadists.

 

No of course not because scum of your ilk like nothing better than using these words to try and bully people who don't agree with you in to submission.

 

I can honestly say, I don't now what worthless people like you bring to humanity.

 

Is deontological fundamentalist more up your alley pal?

[Millbrook Saint]

Check out Mr Dictionary, well done you. Actually the only reason the outcome is becoming what it is, is because of people like you refusing to accept the democratic vote of the people, if you'd all spent more time accepting the vote and getting behind the country in a show of unity, negotiating with the eu would have been much easier, as soon as the likes of you start spouting 'peoples vote' the eu see us as weak and start a divide and conquer attitude.

 

What's your opinion on Macron and his cronies talking about an eu empire, or merkel talking about an eu army. All controller by germany and its lackies france of course

[Batman]

Germany will lead the EU Army. No drama

 

https://www.ft.com/content/23c524f6-1642-11e8-9376-4a6390addb44

[shurlock]

Check out Mr Dictionary, well done you. Actually the only reason the outcome is becoming what it is, is because of people like you refusing to accept the democratic vote of the people, if you'd all spent more time accepting the vote and getting behind the country in a show of unity, negotiating with the eu would have been much easier, as soon as the likes of you start spouting 'peoples vote' the eu see us as weak and start a divide and conquer attitude.

 

What's your opinion on Macron and his cronies talking about an eu empire, or merkel talking about an eu army. All controller by germany and its lackies france of course

 

The EU's position has been clear from day one pal. The outcome was always going to be like this, regardless whether the country was divided or united.

 

I can't help if the grooming gangs of the swivel-eyed right have led you into thinking that the UK held all the cards and that any deal could deliver the exact same benefits as EU membership - all while indulging your dark, paranoid fantasies about the Germans and French.

 

FWIW, I don't currently support a people's vote - I've had arguments with prominent Remainers on this. While the 2016 referendum campaign and result fuelled a lamentable amount of bitterness and resentment, all that would come to resemble the proverbial vicar’s tea party if a second referendum was held. You only need to look at the frenzied state of posters like Wes Tender, Guided Missile and Lord Duckhunter.

Edited 17 November, 2018 by shurlock

[Cabbage_Face]

Sh*ts and g*ggles.

 

 

Yeah, and all the Remain camp saying (Again) "How did this happen?!?" "it was in the bag" blah blah blah

[CB Fry]

The EU's position has been clear from day one pal. The outcome was always going to be like this, regardless whether the country was divided or united.

 

I can't help if the grooming gangs of the swivel-eyed right have led you into thinking that the UK held all the cards and that any deal could deliver the exact same benefits as EU membership - all while indulging your dark, paranoid fantasies about the Germans and French.

 

FWIW, I don't currently support a people's vote - I've had arguments with prominent Remainers on this. While the 2016 referendum campaign and result fuelled a lamentable amount of bitterness and resentment, all that would come to resemble the proverbial vicar’s tea party if a second referendum was held. You only need to look at the frenzied state of posters like Wes Tender, Guided Missile and Lord Duckhunter.

 

It would, however, be boom time for the piano wire industry.

[aintforever]

What a scummy excuse of a human being you are, comparing Jihadists and suicide bombers to people who want their democratic decision respected.

 

Do you forget all the children killed and maimed around the world by people strapping suicide vests to themselves, or the families torn apart in Manchester last year by people strapping suicide vests to themselves.

 

Do you forget all our soldiers who've given their lives fighting these same Jihadists, or families split up by these Jihadists, or children kidnapped by these Jihadists.

 

No of course not because scum of your ilk like nothing better than using these words to try and bully people who don't agree with you in to submission.

 

I can honestly say, I don't now what worthless people like you bring to humanity.

 

Agree, it is a vile use of language. He sums up all that is wrong with the whole Brexit debate.

[Millbrook Saint]

The EU's position has been clear from day one pal. The outcome was always going to be like this, regardless whether the country was divided or united.

 

I can't help if the grooming gangs of the swivel-eyed right have led you into thinking that the UK held all the cards and that any deal could deliver the exact same benefits as EU membership - all while indulging your dark, paranoid fantasies about the Germans and French.

 

FWIW, I don't currently support a people's vote - I've had arguments with prominent Remainers on this. While the 2016 referendum campaign and result fuelled a lamentable amount of bitterness and resentment, all that would come to resemble the proverbial vicar’s tea party if a second referendum was held. You only need to look at the frenzied state of posters like Wes Tender, Guided Missile and Lord Duckhunter.

 

Wow, how little you feel for those young girls groomed and raped. Oh and for your information it's not just the right, plenty of people on the left feel the same way, unfortunately they prefer to play party politics instead of fight for our country. cough cough corbyn, pre leading the party.

 

There is no such thing as a 'peoples vote' that was held in 2016 and we all know the outcome, though some won't accept it. This new 'peoples vote' is just something the remainer elite have made up to make the gullible fools think it was their idea, meanwhile they're pulling all the strings.

 

There is no need for a second referendum, the divisions would be made worse. We should have taken a tougher stance in the first place with the eu, I always knew there would have been some hardships but for my childrens and grand childrens sake was willing to accept that.

 

You still haven't answered what your thoughts on the eu empire and eu army are

[Cabbage_Face]

The EU's position has been clear from day one pal. The outcome was always going to be like this, regardless whether the country was divided or united.

 

I can't help if the grooming gangs of the swivel-eyed right have led you into thinking that the UK held all the cards and that any deal could deliver the exact same benefits as EU membership - all while indulging your dark, paranoid fantasies about the Germans and French.

 

FWIW, I don't currently support a people's vote - I've had arguments with prominent Remainers on this. While the 2016 referendum campaign and result fuelled a lamentable amount of bitterness and resentment, all that would come to resemble the proverbial vicar’s tea party if a second referendum was held. You only need to look at the frenzied state of posters like Wes Tender, Guided Missile and Lord Duckhunter.

 

 

So lets get this right, pal. You argue with both Remain and Leave camps. Why? Trollolol?

[whelk]

What a scummy excuse of a human being you are, comparing Jihadists and suicide bombers to people who want their democratic decision respected.

 

Do you forget all the children killed and maimed around the world by people strapping suicide vests to themselves, or the families torn apart in Manchester last year by people strapping suicide vests to themselves.

 

Do you forget all our soldiers who've given their lives fighting these same Jihadists, or families split up by these Jihadists, or children kidnapped by these Jihadists.

 

No of course not because scum of your ilk like nothing better than using these words to try and bully people who don't agree with you in to submission.

 

I can honestly say, I don't now what worthless people like you bring to humanity.

 

Lol. Quite sensitive in Millbrook are we

[shurlock]

Wow, how little you feel for those young girls groomed and raped. Oh and for your information it's not just the right, plenty of people on the left feel the same way, unfortunately they prefer to play party politics instead of fight for our country. cough cough corbyn, pre leading the party.

 

There is no such thing as a 'peoples vote' that was held in 2016 and we all know the outcome, though some won't accept it. This new 'peoples vote' is just something the remainer elite have made up to make the gullible fools think it was their idea, meanwhile they're pulling all the strings.

 

There is no need for a second referendum, the divisions would be made worse. We should have taken a tougher stance in the first place with the eu, I always knew there would have been some hardships but for my childrens and grand childrens sake was willing to accept that.

 

You still haven't answered what your thoughts on the eu empire and eu army are

 

EU Empire? Don’t make me laugh pal.

 

I suspect you never read the Balance of Competences Review, the most comprehensive assessment ever undertaken of what the EU does and how it affects a member state UK. Spoiler: there is no EU Empire.

 

If you read the review, you’ll also realise that the UK has wielded considerable influence over the direction of the EU. That’s a feature of its large vote share and ability to persuade others.

 

It has been pivotal to the development of single market and other key decisions such as EU enlargement. A company like Vodafone which is held up as a buccaneering example of Global Britain owes its success significantly to favourable EU telecommunications regulation which gave it a chance to scale up from a national provider.

 

In other words, pooling sovereignty has amplified UK power – that privileged position has also made the UK a more valuable ally to countries like the US. The UK doesn’t get its way all the time; it often has to compromise as do France and Germany. But that’s not the behaviour of an empire. And in the most sensitive policy areas the UK retains a veto and/or obtained numerous opt-outs.

 

Needless to say the EU has zero right to act in numerous policy areas: health policy, education, fiscal and monetary policy, income tax, corporation tax and capital gains, pensions, welfare, foreign policy, local government, policing and criminal justice, border control and security, media regulation, non-EU immigration etc. The UK controls more than 98 per cent of its public expenditure which it can spend more or less how it likes.

 

To trade -indeed any form of cooperation- is to accept limits on your autonomy and sovereignty. That's an inescapable fact of life unless you choose to withdraw from the world. Extreme Brexiteers are set for a rude awakening when they discover the sheer lack of sentimentality in negotiations with China and the US. At least within the EU, the UK has enjoyed both internal clout and the external influence that has come with being a member of the world’s second-largest economy.

 

One marvels at the sheer naivety of Brexiteers. Reality has p*ssed all over your claims; alas you don't appear any closer to acknowledging that.

Edited 17 November, 2018 by shurlock

[shurlock]

It would, however, be boom time for the piano wire industry.

 

Thankfully its all fibre optic broadband where I live.

[OldNick]

Lol. Quite sensitive in Millbrook are we

to be fair,it is distasteful. Both sides try and bully the other with childish name calling, it is like the 'scummer' chants. I remember such name calling inthe playground when I was about 8. Grown people using childish terms as they cant really win an argument.

[Jonnyboy]

Wow, how little you feel for those young girls groomed and raped. Oh and for your information it's not just the right, plenty of people on the left feel the same way, unfortunately they prefer to play party politics instead of fight for our country. cough cough corbyn, pre leading the party.

 

There is no such thing as a 'peoples vote' that was held in 2016 and we all know the outcome, though some won't accept it. This new 'peoples vote' is just something the remainer elite have made up to make the gullible fools think it was their idea, meanwhile they're pulling all the strings.

 

There is no need for a second referendum, the divisions would be made worse. We should have taken a tougher stance in the first place with the eu, I always knew there would have been some hardships but for my childrens and grand childrens sake was willing to accept that.

 

You still haven't answered what your thoughts on the eu empire and eu army are

 

You've made hardships for my children, thanks for that.

[OldNick]

EU Empire? Don’t make me laugh pal.

 

I suspect you never read the Balance of Competences Review, the most comprehensive assessment ever undertaken of what the EU does and how it affects a member state UK. Spoiler: there is no EU Empire.

 

If you read the review, you’ll also realise that the UK has wielded considerable influence over the direction of the EU. That’s a feature of its large vote share and ability to persuade others.

 

It has been pivotal to the development of single market and other key decisions such as EU enlargement. A company like Vodafone which is held up as a buccaneering example of Global Britain owes its success significantly to favourable EU telecommunications regulation which gave it a chance to scale up from a national provider.

 

In other words, pooling sovereignty has amplified UK power – that privileged position has also made the UK a more valuable ally to countries like the US. The UK doesn’t get its way all the time; it often has to compromise as do France and Germany. But that’s not the behaviour of an empire. And in the most sensitive policy areas the UK retains a veto and/or obtained numerous opt-outs.

 

Needless to say the EU has zero right to act in numerous policy areas: health policy, education, fiscal and monetary policy, income tax, corporation tax and capital gains, pensions, welfare, foreign policy, local government, policing and criminal justice, border control and security, media regulation, non-EU immigration etc. The UK controls more than 98 per cent of its public expenditure which it can spend more or less how it likes.

 

To trade -indeed any form of cooperation- is to accept limits on your autonomy and sovereignty. That's an inescapable fact of life unless you choose to withdraw from the world. Extreme Brexiteers are set for a rude awakening when they discover the sheer lack of sentimentality in negotiations with China and the US. At least within the EU, the UK enjoyed both internal clout and the external influence that came with being part of the world’s second-largest economy.

 

One marvels at the sheer naivety of Brexiteers. Reality has p*ssed all over your claims; alas you don't appear any closer to acknowledging that.

Shurlock you are obviously a very well informed and intelligent person. Reading you posts you always lose the moral high ground with your insistence of trying to belittle others on here, why? Put across your points without the Pal and all the other put downs,Imsure you will get better response

Thanks