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Guided Missile

By Guided Missile,
in The Lounge

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Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum  

217 members have voted

  1. 1. Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum

    • Leave Before - Leave Now
      46
    • Leave Before - Remain Now
      10
    • Leave Before - Not Bothered Now
      2
    • Remain Before - Remain Now
      127
    • Remain Before - Leave Now
      7
    • Remain Before - Not Bothered Now
      1
    • Not Bothered Before - Leave Now
      3
    • Not Bothered Before - Remain Now
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    • I've never been bothered - Why am I on this Thread?
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    • No second Ref - 2016 was Definitive and Binding
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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
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I'm waiting for all those who have resigned plus Rees-Mogg and his ERG, to come up with a workable alternative to May's deal.

 

Think I'll be waiting long?

 

Well I'm supposing they think that they can bully the EC into changing their view of things. Don't see it myself unless they've got some leverage over Macron and Merkel that no-one has yet used or discovered. The E.C has no reason whatsover to change it's stance.

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John B

John B

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Still can't see what they think they'll achieve by changing their leader and thus P.M. Well just a hard Brexit I suppose and I'm really not sure that that'll be allowed to come to pass.

 

In June 2016 the only outcomes possible were hard no deal Brexit, or Norway+++ (EU access without say with dues to pay). There is intermediate deal possible.

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

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In June 2016 the only outcomes possible were hard no deal Brexit, or Norway+++ (EU access without say with dues to pay). There is intermediate deal possible.

 

 

What deal ? The accord is currently subject of so much discussion is just to avoid a totally disorderly exit. It is not a deal on future trade in the long term. We can slam the door, pay them nothing and walk away or accept what is on offer to be allowed to try to reach some sort of permanent agreement at a later date.

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shurlock

shurlock

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I'm waiting for all those who have resigned plus Rees-Mogg and his ERG, to come up with a workable alternative to May's deal.

 

Think I'll be waiting long?

 

Remember the ERG are the shower of s**t that had to shelve their Brexit plan B because they couldn’t agree among themselves.

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John B

John B

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What deal ? The accord is currently subject of so much discussion is just to avoid a totally disorderly exit. It is not a deal on future trade in the long term. We can slam the door, pay them nothing and walk away or accept what is on offer to be allowed to try to reach some sort of permanent agreement at a later date.

 

I know but in the long term

 

the only outcomes possible were hard no deal Brexit, or Norway+++ (EU access without say with dues to pay)

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Batman

Batman

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What actually is the point in her having this Q&A after her speech?

 

It's just like PMQs where no matter what question she gets asked, she still just rattles off the same pre-scripted guff that bears no resemblance to a valid answer.

 

It’s the same for all of them.

Just a vehicle for them to get their point to the masses

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ecuk268

ecuk268

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What actually is the point in her having this Q&A after her speech?

 

It's just like PMQs where no matter what question she gets asked, she still just rattles off the same pre-scripted guff that bears no resemblance to a valid answer.

 

She's politician. they all do it.

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

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Feck off Theresa pretending that the people support you.

 

She’s also pretending that the future relationship is sorted, it’s not. She can’t state FoM has ended because of her deal. It’s pony, the EU can insist on it if we want high access, and because she’s given them the money regardless, we’re stuffed on that one. FoM in future has nothing to do with her turd.

 

 

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

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Yeah I guess. That way she can say she tried her best and followed what she believed to be the best ineterests... yadda yadda yadda.

 

 

Perhaps not. As Harold Wilson once said, a week is a long time in politics. Those whips are going to be overheating, suggestions of losing jobs after a GE will be bandied about. Perhaps a virulent opponent will be stuck by a falling piano.. Who knows what will happen. The there's those Sinn Feiners...

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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Perhaps not. As Harold Wilson once said, a week is a long time in politics. Those whips are going to be overheating, suggestions of losing jobs after a GE will be bandied about. Perhaps a virulent opponent will be stuck by a falling piano.. Who knows what will happen. The there's those Sinn Feiners...
Nah. U saw earlier that if they had even half the tories saying they are going to vote it down then she would still lose. She doesn't have a hope.
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shurlock

shurlock

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It’s quite clear that if there was another vote tomorrow, as a nation we would change our mind and stay in.

 

May has done a terrific job of uniting the Brexit/Remainers in hatred of her.

 

I don’t hate her. She’s played the hand she was dealt as well as she could. The problem is the hand itself was a pile of s**t.

 

The silver lining of today is that it’s further proof that Brexit is undeliverable.

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Jonnyboy

Jonnyboy

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I still think it will go through Parliament.

 

Moderate MPs from both sides scared of a no deal will back it.

 

ERG headbangers are ultimately bottle-jobs whose default position is complaining and objecting rather than actually taking responsibility and making decisions that have consequences. They will be sacred of Corbyn or no Brexit. Ultimately they will take getting out in any form and then settle in for the next thirty years of blaming the EU for everything just like the previous thirty years. Win-win for Peter Bone and gang.

 

Corbyn ultimately will get tied up by the fact that May's deal isn't that far away from what Starmer and co have been asking for. Rump Labour MPs in leave constituencies will also bottle it (despite all the evidence that it won't impact their majorities) and enough will row in behind the deal.

 

Much as I'd like to see the government collapse for the LOLs I just can't see it happening - most Tories, when it comes to it, will not rock the boat and self-destruct plus enough Labour MPs are pathetic enough to back it, plus those like swivel eyed Hoey actually believe in it anyway. And not letting the SNP and especially the DUP wag the dog will also play a part too.

 

Hold your noses, lads.

 

Still so sure?

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saint1977

saint1977

Posted
Posted
The loathsome Sarah Wollaston who is despised by her constituents for standing in the election on a manifesto stating that she was a Brexiteer and then once elected, changing to be not only a Remoaner, but an outspoken one, one of the current crop of "Tory bastards" along with Clark, Morgan, Soubry, Grieve, Allen, etc. If she had an honorable bone in her body, she would stand for re-election.

 

And what would cause civil unrest far worse than those in 1981, would be the cancellation of Brexit either as Government policy, or via a third referendum.

 

Why don’t you ask the Police National Coordination Centre whose report in September indicated they were preparing for significant civil unrest if there was shortages in medicines (a known risk) and other key goods? The Uk Head of Amazon also expressed similar concerns.

 

But then you are a hardcore Brexiteer - f uck businesses that pay working people’s mortgages and f uck experts.

 

Do you live in South Hams? Do you know Sarah Wollaston? A minority may disagree with her but remember S Hams voted Remain. It contains places such as Brixham which is fishing port and more pro Brexit but also Totnes with some broadly minded people who have grown up where a 1940s map isn’t covered in British pink.

 

What she has had is the Leave.EU Far Right extremists funded by Banks and various domestic/international gangsters targeting her local party members on Facebook hurling all sorts of fake news and personal abuse. Most local people think it’s repulsive but clearly the sort of behaviour you agree with, which says everything to everyone on this forum.

 

As for Conor Burns saying he’d encourage BeLeave contest her seat - ha ha! Poor old Bournemouth having him for an MP.

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Batman

Batman

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Why don’t you ask the Police National Coordination Centre whose report in September indicated they were preparing for significant civil unrest if there was shortages in medicines (a known risk) and other key goods? The Uk Head of Amazon also expressed similar concerns.

 

But then you are a hardcore Brexiteer - f uck businesses that pay working people’s mortgages and f uck experts.

.

the reason why people like wes (and countless others) are sceptical of such doom stories is that ALL of the armegedon for VOTING to leave simply did not happen and in many/most cases, the reverse came about

 

I remember people on here laughing at Gove when he suggested that it was best to ignore the 'experts' who suggested we would be eating off the floor with the cats and dogs for daring to vote leave.......he was ridiculed for defying the experts....he was right (by luck or design)

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

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I think it is possible to leave, but you have to be willing to take a lot of pain and unpalatable consequences. It becomes impossible once you have a geographical/political situation such as Northern Ireland.

 

If an independent sovereign nation can’t leave an economic union, it’s either more than an economic union or you’re not an independent country. Which do you think it is.

 

 

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aintforever

aintforever

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Still so sure?

 

I wouldn’t be surprised. They can moan all they like but when it comes down to the vote it looks like a straight choice between this deal and no deal or a second referendum. Neither of the later two seem particularly popular. May’s deal is a fudge but it kicks the can down the road a bit longer and may be the least painful way to vote.

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shurlock

shurlock

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If an independent sovereign nation can’t leave an economic union, it’s either more than an economic union or you’re not an independent country. Which do you think it is.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

#clueless

 

Or the blindingly obvious fact that 40+ years of economic interdependence cannot be readily unwound without significant disruption.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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I wouldn’t be surprised. They can moan all they like but when it comes down to the vote it looks like a straight choice between this deal and no deal or a second referendum. Neither of the later two seem particularly popular. May’s deal is a fudge but it kicks the can down the road a bit longer and may be the least painful way to vote.
It's not going to be that choice and everyone knows it. The EU leaders were floating about it today. They know that we aren't going to opt for no deal so it's going to be this awful deal that gives them everything they wanted or we are going to end up grovelling to stay in which they will obviously accept. Just like every other vote that the public have on EU treaties etc it will be ignored or the public will be made to vote again. The great EU project seemingly cannot be stopped via democratic means, I'll just have to hope that it's upended by the European elections but even that is unlikely.
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shurlock

shurlock

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It's not just an economic union, you know it isn't.

 

It's also a regulatory union which has a clear economic rationale: common rules support trade and competition. Without a degree of harmonisation -with 28 different sets of rules governing the sale of a product or service, economic activity would be much lower.

 

The level of ignorance on here is staggering.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
soon to have its own army. Oh how people were ridiculed for suggesting this would/could happen
Even the people who don't want to leave realise that they want a united States of Europe. To some people that doesn't seem to matter but it certainly matters to me. We've massively screwed up brexit so now my hope is on the latest European elections or the populists governments joining forces and trying to change the direction. Anyone pro EU on here can't tell me that whenever they see the smug faces of juncker or verhofstadt openly laughing at the idea of democracy or the idea of independent nation states they don't feel very depressed.
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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

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Even the people who don't want to leave realise that they want a united States of Europe. To some people that doesn't seem to matter but it certainly matters to me. We've massively screwed up brexit so now my hope is on the latest European elections or the populists governments joining forces and trying to change the direction. Anyone pro EU on here can't tell me that whenever they see the smug faces of juncker or verhofstadt openly laughing at the idea of democracy or the idea of independent nation states they don't feel very depressed.

 

Nobody ever makes a positive case for the EU. When did you last hear a politician speaking up for free movement or the commission. You never do, they lie and bluff, whereas the European politicians took their people with them. From Heath, to Major, Blair, Cameron & Brown, they’ve blagged it. They pretended they’re eurosceptic whilst hoping we won’t notice. I met a German years ago in a Portuguese bar and he said the German people considered a Frenchman or Spaniard working Munich the equivalent of a sweaty working in Sussex. He couldn’t understand why UK EU supporters didn’t make this point. He also made the point that rich countries giving money to poor, to develop them was a good thing and that Europe would be better if GDP’s were similar. He said it will happen, will cost a lot and he wouldn’t benefit, but the generations after him would. He said in 100 years time they’d be a United States of Europe and he was proud to be part of that journey. He made a case for the EU that Clarke, Soubry, Clegg never make. They never make a moral case or even a positive case. Its always fear, or abuse towards the other side. We respectively disagreed and got lashed up.

 

 

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
Still so sure?
Yes, although today was better than I was expecting.

 

It will get voted down first time round. Bit of drama.

 

So we go back to Brussels, miniscule changes/tweaks but by this point it's January and the stock market/business is in total meltdown/panic about no deal.

 

Brexiteers now sh it scared of no Brexit.

 

Moderates now sh it scared of no deal.

 

So that focuses minds.

 

This piece of sh it deal will go through because it's what the people voted for etc etc etc.

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Jonnyboy

Jonnyboy

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Posted
Nobody ever makes a positive case for the EU. When did you last hear a politician speaking up for free movement or the commission. You never do, they lie and bluff, whereas the European politicians took their people with them. From Heath, to Major, Blair, Cameron & Brown, they’ve blagged it. They pretended they’re eurosceptic whilst hoping we won’t notice. I met a German years ago in a Portuguese bar and he said the German people considered a Frenchman or Spaniard working Munich the equivalent of a sweaty working in Sussex. He couldn’t understand why UK EU supporters didn’t make this point. He also made the point that rich countries giving money to poor, to develop them was a good thing and that Europe would be better if GDP’s were similar. He said it will happen, will cost a lot and he wouldn’t benefit, but the generations after him would. He said in 100 years time they’d be a United States of Europe and he was proud to be part of that journey. He made a case for the EU that Clarke, Soubry, Clegg never make. They never make a moral case or even a positive case. Its always fear, or abuse towards the other side. We respectively disagreed and got lashed up.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I like his idea which is why I've never had a major issue with the idea of a USE. Rather that than some union with Trump or Putin.

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