Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[sandwichsaint]

Is Brexit still red, white and blue?

[shurlock]

And you're just splitting hairs.

 

And you seem to be blissfully ignoring the period from when the EU was first formed (1957) to when the Balkans conflict started (1991), and the fact that the Balkans conflict ended in 2001, and that no member states of the EU have been at war with each other during that entire period.

 

Apart from denying the Cold War division of Europe and the subsequent role of EU enlargement in reunifying a fractured continent, Les also forgets that the Balkans Conflict was viewed as a civil war. I thought intervening in the internal affairs of another sovereign state went against the jihadist code.

 

As if we needed any more proof of Les staggering lack of internal consistency. He aint the sharpest tool in the box.

Edited 15 November, 2018 by shurlock

[Sheaf Saint]

A compilation of all the cabinet resignation letters so far today...

 

[shurlock]

Brexit meets reality

 

Edited 15 November, 2018 by shurlock

[Wes Tender]

Apart from denying the Cold War division of Europe and the subsequent role of EU enlargement in reunifying a fractured continent, Les also forgets that the Balkans Conflict was viewed as a civil war. I thought intervening in the internal affairs of another sovereign state went against the jihadist code.

 

As if we needed any more proof of Les staggering lack of internal consistency. He aint the sharpest tool in the box.

 

Shurlock finally admits, albeit grudgingly, that the conflict in the Balkan countries was a war and presumably he also recognises that it happened geographically in Europe.

 

Where did I deny the Cold War division of Europe, or other red herrings that are the trademark of Shurlock's ability to blur the lines of any argument that he cannot answer directly for fear of shooting himself in the foot? Where did I argue that the EU ought to have intervened in the conflict, even though there was significant genocide taking place right on their doorstep? No, that's right, I didn't express any opinion on that or anything else that Shurlock wants to infer.

 

And then to boot, there is the usual childish insult that signals that he is being bested and unable to respond with clarity to the questions aimed at him.

[shurlock]

Shurlock finally admits, albeit grudgingly, that the conflict in the Balkan countries was a war and presumably he also recognises that it happened geographically in Europe.

 

Where did I deny the Cold War division of Europe, or other red herrings that are the trademark of Shurlock's ability to blur the lines of any argument that he cannot answer directly for fear of shooting himself in the foot? Where did I argue that the EU ought to have intervened in the conflict, even though there was significant genocide taking place right on their doorstep? No, that's right, I didn't express any opinion on that or anything else that Shurlock wants to infer.

 

And then to boot, there is the usual childish insult that signals that he is being bested and unable to respond with clarity to the questions aimed at him.

 

Where did I claim that there wasn't a civil war (as expected the civil war reference has flown over your head)? I just noted that it was not particularly relevant to any assessment of the EU for the historical reasons I've outlined.

 

I know that 149 pages on, people like me and others are being proven right by the day while reality is exposing your claims for the childish delusions that they always were. It must be difficult for you pal. Believe or not I want the best for this country, including you.

Edited 15 November, 2018 by shurlock

[Wes Tender]

Where did I claim that there wasn't a civil war (as expected the civil war reference has flown over your head)? I just noted that it was not particularly relevant to any assessment of the EU for the historical reasons I've outlined.

 

I know that 149 pages on, people like me and others are being proven right by the day while reality is exposing your claims for the childish delusions that they always were. It must be difficult for you pal. Believe or not I want the best for this country, including you.

 

So we finally get there. You accept that there actually has been a war in Europe since the European project (under whatever name) commenced. Bingo

 

Regarding the current state of affairs, I am celebrating the events of the past 24 hours and expect May to be gone very soon. Of course, I want also what is best for this country, for me, my children and grandchildren. That will be achieved outside of the EU and we are slowly making progress in that direction, which will gather speed once May and the loathsome Robbins are gone. Hammond too, please.

[badgerx16]

It seems that the Leavers are all leaving.

[Sheaf Saint]

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1063037914412736512

 

Laura Kuenssberg

@bbclaurak

 

I've just been speaking to Dominic Raab - he told the Chief Whip at end of Cabinet he was quitting, tells me the deal won't get through Parliament, and the EU have been 'blackmailing' us - interview on @bbcnews soon

 

Who would possibly have believed that eh? The Brexit secretary who has quit over the terms of a deal that he negotiated, claiming that it is all the fault of the EU.

 

Didn't see that coming!

[badgerx16]

[Window Cleaner]

 

 

 

Who would possibly have believed that eh? The Brexit secretary who has quit over the terms of a deal that he negotiated, claiming that it is all the fault of the EU.

 

Didn't see that coming!

 

Must be a bit simple that Raab bloke. The EU don't want us to leave or if we do they want to leave a stark message to anyone else who fancies trying. They've known all along that the "Brexit" was in the hands of rank amateurs with limited top level experience and just let the Brits stymie themselves.

[saint1977]

It seems that the Leavers are all leaving.

 

If only they were leaving the UK, and Europe as a continent. I'll arrange a coach to take them all to Heathrow so they can board a plane join their friends Donald and Steve, and the rest of us can get on with our lives minus their rabid nationalism and weird obsessions. I'm sure Trumpy will happily accept some more white, male, old far right nutters to join his hareem.

[saint1977]

Must be a bit simple that Raab bloke. The EU don't want us to leave or if we do they want to leave a stark message to anyone else who fancies trying. They've known all along that the "Brexit" was in the hands of rank amateurs with limited top level experience and just let the Brits stymie themselves.

 

Spot on. Raab is an absolute dunce, just as Davis and the rest of them are and got completely taken to the cleaners. Apparently all these evil 'Remoaner' civil servants were holding it all up, and expertise doesn't matter does it? You can have fake news such as spending £350m a week on the NHS on the side of buses instead.

 

Lord help us if anyone of the Brexiteers get anywhere near a position of power. Boris, Fox, Raab, Davis - they've all been absolutely undisputed failures as ministers. I thought nothing could be worse than Corbyn, but it looks like a dead heat, and a dead economy.

 

No wonder one of our local MPs here Devon Sarah Wolleaston has gone from a Brexiteer, to campaigning for a second vote. At least someone has seen the light.

 

Disgrace. the lot of them, and that includes DUP, Labour as well. Self interest, nothing about the national interest at all.

 

No Deal would lead to civil unrest that we've not seen since the riots of 1981.

[LGTL]

As if this was ever going to go any other way. The NI issue was always too huge to get around, especially once May went in to bed with Arlene, who is quite possibly the most repulsive woman in the UK. Anyone with a brain knew that we couldn’t have a borderless entry/exit with an EU country after Brexit. but equally we can never put a hard border between NI and ROI. The result is what we have - a complete and utter mess.

[Wes Tender]

No wonder one of our local MPs here Devon Sarah Wolleaston has gone from a Brexiteer, to campaigning for a second vote. At least someone has seen the light.

 

No Deal would lead to civil unrest that we've not seen since the riots of 1981.

 

The loathsome Sarah Wollaston who is despised by her constituents for standing in the election on a manifesto stating that she was a Brexiteer and then once elected, changing to be not only a Remoaner, but an outspoken one, one of the current crop of "Tory bastards" along with Clark, Morgan, Soubry, Grieve, Allen, etc. If she had an honorable bone in her body, she would stand for re-election.

 

And what would cause civil unrest far worse than those in 1981, would be the cancellation of Brexit either as Government policy, or via a third referendum.

[aintforever]

No Deal would lead to civil unrest that we've not seen since the riots of 1981.

 

Getting bullied back into a second vote by the EU could be just as bad though. The issues that were there before would still be there - plus a lot more bad feeling towards Europe.

 

It's a ****ing mess all round.

[shurlock]

The loathsome Sarah Wollaston who is despised by her constituents for standing in the election on a manifesto stating that she was a Brexiteer and then once elected, changing to be not only a Remoaner, but an outspoken one, one of the current crop of "Tory bastards" along with Clark, Morgan, Soubry, Grieve, Allen, etc. If she had an honorable bone in her body, she would stand for re-election.

 

And what would cause civil unrest far worse than those in 1981, would be the cancellation of Brexit either as Government policy, or via a third referendum.

 

Don't get any funny ideas Les.

[Wes Tender]

Jacob Rees-Mogg has submitted his letter to the 1922 Committee along with several others from the ERG group. Boris has turned up at the meeting. Opinions are split between those wanting to place the vote of no confidence in May now and those wanting to wait until her humiliating defeat when the vote on the agreement is held in Parliament.

[Verbal]

And what would cause civil unrest far worse than those in 1981, would be the cancellation of Brexit either as Government policy, or via a third referendum.

 

Project fear! And you seem to have a thing about talking up violence.

[Jonnyboy]

Time for another general election, its been on the cards since the last one. Good oh.

Edited 15 November, 2018 by Jonnyboy

[Wes Tender]

Project fear! And you seem to have a thing about talking up violence.

 

Is speculation about the civil unrest of the people if their democratic wishes are ignored "talking up violence"?

 

Only in your febrile mind.

 

I note that you didn't call to task Saint1977 and aintforever for also suggesting that there could be civil unrest.

[shurlock]

Is speculation about the civil unrest of the people if their democratic wishes are ignored "talking up violence"?

 

Only in your febrile mind.

 

I note that you didn't call to task Saint1977 and aintforever for also suggesting that there could be civil unrest.

 

Because you've got form.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Must be a bit simple that Raab bloke. The EU don't want us to leave or if we do they want to leave a stark message to anyone else who fancies trying. They've known all along that the "Brexit" was in the hands of rank amateurs with limited top level experience and just let the Brits stymie themselves.

 

He’s an ex foreign office lawyer, I think he knows more about it than an anonymous bloke on a football forum.

 

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

Jacob Rees-Mogg has submitted his letter to the 1922 Committee along with several others from the ERG group. Boris has turned up at the meeting. Opinions are split between those wanting to place the vote of no confidence in May now and those wanting to wait until her humiliating defeat when the vote on the agreement is held in Parliament.

 

They need to wait until after 3/12, then I can vote on her successor.

 

 

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[Window Cleaner]

They need to wait until after 3/12, then I can vote on her successor.

 

 

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Why's that then? Is it when you get out of jail or something :-)

[Window Cleaner]

He’s an ex foreign office lawyer, I think he knows more about it than an anonymous bloke on a football forum.

 

 

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I probably know more about the European Commission than he does, being a retired employee of theirs like..

There's always been a bit of contempt within the EC over the UK sending a procession of also rans to negociate with them.

These people never stood a chance. Now if Cameron hadn't run away it might have been different. At least he held some sort of respect.

Edited 15 November, 2018 by Window Cleaner

[shurlock]

I probably know more about the European Commission than he does, being a retired employee of theirs like..

There's always been a bit of contempt within the EC over the UK sending a procession of also rans to negociate with them.

These people never stood a chance. Now if Cameron hadn't run away it might have been different. At least he held some sort of respect.

 

Dominic Raab is widely considered a duffer in government circles, combining sulkiness with a massive chip on his shoulder.

[Cabbage_Face]

Here it comes

 

 

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[Window Cleaner]

Dominic Raab is widely considered a duffer in government circles, combining sulkiness with a massive chip on his shoulder.

 

 

if you say so, I obviously know very little (bordering on absolutely nothing) about him.

So this situation resembles those played out in Comedy Films. Send a duffer (who usually comes up trumps and gets the girl) to screw something you really don't want over.

Edited 15 November, 2018 by Window Cleaner

[Lord Duckhunter]

if you say so, I obviously know very little (bordering on absolutely nothing) about him.

 

 

Clearly.

 

 

 

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[Window Cleaner]

Here it comes

 

 

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What? The night?

[Window Cleaner]

So to sum it up:

 

Those who want Brexit are throwing their toys out of the pram because they're getting a sort of Brexit and those who want no Brexit at all are throwing their toys out of the pram because they think that'll get them another referendum. In the meantime everything remains in complete limbo and nothing is getting done or is likely to get done. Oscar Wilde could have penned all this and got a barrel of laughs in the West End. No scotch that, it's more like Brian Rix, even bordering on Sid James and Hattie Jaques.

Edited 15 November, 2018 by Window Cleaner

[Sheaf Saint]

https://twitter.com/Pottell/status/1063057301635059717

[shurlock]

So to sum it up:

 

Those who want Brexit are throwing their toys out of the pram because they're getting a sort of Brexit and those who want no Brexit at all are throwing their toys out of the pram because they think that'll get them another referendum. In the meantime everything remains in complete limbo and nothing is getting done or is likely to get done. Oscar Wilde could have penned all this and got a barrel of laughs in the West End. No scotch that, it's more like Brian Rix, even bordering on Sid James and Hattie Jaques.

 

Those who want Brexit are throwing their toys out of the pram, even though they have been at the heart of government. Despite having every opportunity, they have singularly failed to offer a realistic alternative. Which was obvious from day one because they had sold the public a pup.

Edited 15 November, 2018 by shurlock

[Window Cleaner]

Those who want Brexit are throwing their toys out of the pram, even though they have been at the heart of government. Despite having every opportunity, they have singularly failed to offer a realistic alternative. Which was obvious from day one.

 

 

All of this just points out that you should never ever let the people decide about anything of any importance. That just gets you Brexit and Trump. The French rejected the European Constitution but the then government imposed it upon them anyway.

Edited 15 November, 2018 by Window Cleaner

[Orange]

Would appear Farage is slowly being vindicated once again on his warnings, this time of an EU centralised military.

 

Watching Merkel's speech to the raucous applause of the EU apparatchiks was quite some spectacle.

[LGTL]

The ballot paper asked us if we wanted to leave the eu. It never stated in what way we wanted it to happen.

 

You’re getting your Brexit, and it’s going to be a load of baloney.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Would appear Farage is slowly being vindicated once again on his warnings, this time of an EU centralised military.

 

Watching Merkel's speech to the raucous applause of the EU apparatchiks was quite some spectacle.

 

http://

 

 

 

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[Window Cleaner]

The ballot paper asked us if we wanted to leave the eu. It never stated in what way we wanted it to happen.

 

You’re getting your Brexit, and it’s going to be a load of baloney.

 

Well yes, that's because the vote of some old gran who's fed up with the Polish corner shop and the vote of the Chairman of Jaguar or Rolls Royce had exactly the same value when the counting was done. Why Cameron ever agreed to a referendum is one of the great mysteries of the last 500 years or so. The UKIP were no real threat and he had a workable majority to do exactly nothing.

Even then he only had to include all UK passport holding expats in Europe in the vote and he'd have walked over any opposition.

Excluding those living overseas for over 15 years was just a dumb stunt. Most other countries allow their expats to vote in national elections and some even have specific representatives in their ruling bodies. the London French have their own Deputé in the Assembly.

Edited 15 November, 2018 by Window Cleaner

[Lord Duckhunter]

Telegraph reporting that Gove offered Brexit Sec job, but will only accept if he can renegotiate her deal.

 

 

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[Window Cleaner]

Telegraph reporting that Gove offered Brexit Sec job, but will only accept if he can renegotiate her deal.

 

 

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Is he any good at negociating?

[Plastic]

Why Cameron ever agreed to a referendum is one of the great mysteries of the last 500 years or so.

Because he is a smug, self-satisfied fool who thought he could guarantee the result. Then he proved himself a shameless coward by running away from the idiocy he facilitated.

Far worse PM than May, at least she has taken some ownership here.

[hypochondriac]

http://

 

 

 

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He won't get any credit for it despite being entirely correct. Clegg should hang his head in shame.

[Window Cleaner]

Ah I see now that some bright spark Conservative MP has come up with a great idea. Get a new P.M and simply jettison the parts of the "accord" that they don't like. Not worth any trouble there my friend, even I can tell you the eventual response of the E.C which would be "If you want to leave just leave but it's on our terms or nothing at all". That's why 2 years or so of negociations have got the accord that's on offer and nothing else. The only other solution is to throw N.I under the bus.

[Sheaf Saint]

Ah I see now that some bright spark Conservative MP has come up with a great idea. Get a new P.M and simply jettison the parts of the "accord" that they don't like. Not worth any trouble there my friend, even I can tell you the eventual response of the E.C which would be "If you want to leave just leave but it's on our terms or nothing at all". That's why 2 years or so of negociations have got the accord that's on offer and nothing else. The only other solution is to throw N.I under the bus.

 

Which the Tories cannot do, because they would lose the support of the DUP and therefore their majority in the commons.

[Window Cleaner]

Which the Tories cannot do, because they would lose the support of the DUP and therefore their majority in the commons.

 

Would that be the case if they could get Sinn Fein to actually turn up and vote for them? Are there not 7 who never turn up or vote? That would give them 322 if there are no Conservative defections so they'd need to get 3 of the independants . Don't know how they lean though.

[Orange]

He won't get any credit for it despite being entirely correct. Clegg should hang his head in shame.

 

They're the first to mock, deride and take the high ground - but they never put their hands up when they get it wrong.

[Plastic]

Just put £20 on Count Moggula as next PM @12/1.

Its a laugh, innit.

[Window Cleaner]

Just put £20 on Moggula as next PM @12/1.

Its a laugh, innit.

 

If you've got 20£ to throw away I guess it is. What are his credentials? Has he held any serious office or is he just another Big Mouthed chancer?

[Plastic]

If you've got 20£ to throw away I guess it is. What are his credentials? Has he held any serious office or is he just another Big Mouthed chancer?

The latter, but feels like the way the wind is blowing.